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You can field an IG artillery company or tank legion and tell your opponent that at least you're not playing an Imperial Navy detachment also featuring Imperial Guard.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Oh hey, middle - one thing I've noticed missing both from your write up as well as the other detailed rumors I've seen lately: Track Guards for vehicles. Are these no longer available? I mean, they're a cheap way to keep from getting the Immobilised=Destroyed result in squadrons which is what everyone wants. Thusly, GW does not offer them. Even for an exorbitant price.

All the Imperial Guard tanks I bought came with trackguards on the (new~ish) vehicle accessories sprue. I don't recall them replacing this.

So the armour on a Vendetta is 12/12/10? Why is everyone getting so riled up then?

Because 3 TL las cannons = a world of pain at long range. Anything with that sort of firepower should be able to make 140pts on the first shot let alone for the whole game

Quick question:

How much is an Apothecary in a Marine Command Squad? I'm pretty sure he comes standard with the unit (ie. not an upgrade), but if you break down the costs of the unit, how much is he?

ShumaGorath wrote:...and after that they get to zoom around tank shocking everything on the table at the same time.

You keep saying this. Non-tank units don't Tank Shock, in the absence of some piece of wargear that lets them do so.

ShumaGorath wrote:Then what is the str 4 large blast he mentioned? Or is that the hellfury missiles stats? Why would you ever switch to a one shot missile with stats like that...? Not that it means much, nothing is going to survive 9 TL lascanons (as one god damn killpoint) and after that they get to zoom around tank shocking everything on the table at the same time.

My initial thought is that even a squadron of 3 is overkill, but running the mathhammer, I get that you do need a squadron of 3 to "guarantee" a kill of an AV 14.

ShumaGorath wrote:
Then what is the str 4 large blast he mentioned? Or is that the hellfury missiles stats? Why would you ever switch to a one shot missile with stats like that...? Not that it means much, nothing is going to survive 9 TL lascanons (as one god damn killpoint) and after that they get to zoom around tank shocking everything on the table at the same time

Why do you think the Vendettas will be able to Tank Shock? Only vehicles classified as Tank can do that. Ork vehicles can do it if they buy the Reinforced Ram upgrade. I have not seen any rumor yet that lists the Vendetta as a Tank or that specify an upgrade for the Vendetta that allows it to Tank Shock.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Quick question:

How much is an Apothecary in a Marine Command Squad? I'm pretty sure he comes standard with the unit (ie. not an upgrade), but if you break down the costs of the unit, how much is he?

The Command Squad is essentially 5 Vanguard Veterans, which is 100 from its price tag...

That means the Apothecary costs 15 points.

3xTwin-linked BS3 Lascannons gives 9/4 = 2.25hits per turn, at 130 pts, or 57.7 pts per hit

3x Lascannons in HWS gives 1.5hits per turn, at 105pts, or 70 pts per hit

Vendetta is immune to fire below S6 in most aspects
HWS gets instant killed by S6

Vendetta is transport, can move and shoot...etc

Edit: but lascannon is really not what it used to be with when talking about things like AV14 in cover. The good news is that IG gets more
AV14 spam than everyone else!

Great stuff middle. Keep it up.

Can I give normal Shock troopers pistols and CC weapons?

Which units can get Shotguns?

Asmodai wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:Oh hey, middle - one thing I've noticed missing both from your write up as well as the other detailed rumors I've seen lately: Track Guards for vehicles. Are these no longer available? I mean, they're a cheap way to keep from getting the Immobilised=Destroyed result in squadrons which is what everyone wants. Thusly, GW does not offer them. Even for an exorbitant price.

All the Imperial Guard tanks I bought came with trackguards on the (new~ish) vehicle accessories sprue. I don't recall them replacing this.

Oh no - I'm not saying they're getting rid of the track guards on the models...I'm wondering if they've gotten rid of the rules for them. I mean, just because it comes on the accessory sprue doesn't mean we get a rule for it, right? I don't get some extra fuel rule for putting those drums on my tanks. I'm curious to see if GW has decided to make track guards obsolete. I mean, they still look cool and all...

Anung Un Rama wrote:Which units can get Shotguns?

According to middle, only vets.

Valk has 24" S4 Ap6 Large blast

Vendetta has 72" S4 Ap5 large blast. One use.

12/12/10 for both and yeah, fast, skimmer.

Hunting lances still no +ccw.

Track guards are no more. Nothing can have them. Our squadrons will die a painful death from thrown tracks.

Platoon drill is not in there.

Shotguns for Straken and Vets.

No 'warrior weapons'

If it's sitting still firing three lascannons, it's not making much use of it's transport capacity. Seems a bit pointless.

15 points to give 4 Marines a 4+ FNP save vs 30 for a fething Medic to give 5 pathetic Guardsmen a 4+ FNP save.

Uhh...

Shummy, you are bang on about the Codex - it is completely bi-polar. You've got things that make your eyes stick out they're so good, and then there's jaw-droppingly terrible units on the next page. I mean, GW does the whole pendulum thing alot and that's cool, keeps things moving stops the game stagnating and so on... but this Codex... it just seems like someone lurching between different moods.

Did he write the Ogryn or the Stormy entry when he was in a bad mood? Did he see Guard get trounced in a game the day he wrote the Vendetta entry to get revenge?

You are wrong about the Dread Plasma Cannon though. That Dread can fight in HTH. Sentinels can't. The only thing a Sentinel can do better is sit in cover with a 3+ save... but that's now an 85 point Sentinel.

All of this about the Vendetta just makes me so bitter about converting my Hellhounds....sorry, Nerfhounds.

Da Boss wrote:If it's sitting still firing three lascannons, it's not making much use of it's transport capacity. Seems a bit pointless.

True - but even if it didn't have that transport capacity, it'd still be dirt cheap!

MinMax wrote:The Command Squad is essentially 5 Vanguard Veterans, which is 100 from its price tag...

That means the Apothecary costs 15 points.

I would say that the Command Squad Vet Marines are only worth about 20 points each as, unlike Sternguard, they don't have the special ammo and so should be cheaper. That puts the Apothecary at about 35 points.

I just wonder about the design behind it. Fast zippy skimmer, must sit completely still be be effective.

Huh?

How much (roughly) is a bare bones falcon, as a comparison?

Exactly DBM. The transport capacity is wrong brings it over the line. It's not giving anything up by becoming a Vendetta.

Valk w/Lascannon = 115
Vendy w/3 TL-Lascannon = 130

There's just no contest here. None at all. Valk is overpriced undergunned junk. Vendy rocks everyone's world.

But before we go on, I will ask, one more time, just to be 100% sure:

Is it 100% confirmed that the Vendetta keeps its 12-man transport capacity? Is this 100% fact?

The Vendetta feels like the Stormlord. A unit that makes you feel filthy for using it while other people are playing with Valkyries/Macharius Vulcans.

Death By Monkeys wrote:All of this about the Vendetta just makes me so bitter about converting my Hellhounds....sorry, Nerfhounds.

Was the nerfing of the Hellhound really that much of a surprise? It was bad in the first 3rd edition codex, and better in the second one. The pendulum just swung back on it.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:All of this about the Vendetta just makes me so bitter about converting my Hellhounds....sorry, Nerfhounds.

Was the nerfing of the Hellhound really that much of a surprise? It was bad in the first 3rd edition codex, and better in the second one. The pendulum just swung back on it.

No, it wasn't a surprise, per se, and really the nerf isn't that bad. But compared to what you could be loading that FA slot with (namely a Vendetta) it makes it pretty poor, indeed.

Platuan4th wrote:

MinMax wrote:The Command Squad is essentially 5 Vanguard Veterans, which is 100 from its price tag...

That means the Apothecary costs 15 points.

I would say that the Command Squad Vet Marines are only worth about 20 points each as, unlike Sternguard, they don't have the special ammo and so should be cheaper. That puts the Apothecary at about 35 points.

I meant 15 points in addition to the cost of a Veteran, in that an Apothecary is identical to a Vanguard Veteran.

It's +30 points to turn a Guardsman into a Medic, isn't it?

Not at all Aggy. We called the nerfing of the Hellhound long, long ago. We just knew it was going to head back to 3rd Ed land (wher Jervis seems to be taking a lot of things). I'm honestly surprised the 'Glance = Pen' rule didn't come back (or, at least, a 5th Ed equiv, like +1 to all rolls on Damage Chart due to external Fuel Tanks).

But nerfing its rules is one thing. It's the fact that Arby both nerfed their rules and then ramped their cost up for no discernable reason. How are they worse, yet worth more???

H.B.M.C. wrote:Not at all Aggy. We called the nerfing of the Hellhound long, long ago. We just knew it was going to head back to 3rd Ed land (wher Jervis seems to be taking a lot of things). I'm honestly surprised the 'Glance = Pen' rule didn't come back (or, at least, a 5th Ed equiv, like +1 to all rolls on Damage Chart due to external Fuel Tanks).

But nerfing its rules is one thing. It's the fact that Arby both nerfed their rules and then ramped their cost up for no discernable reason. How are they worse, yet worth more???

Because they're Fast.

That's the rationale for the Salamander costing 100pts while being worth about 40.

MinMax wrote:I meant 15 points in addition to the cost of a Veteran, in that an Apothecary is identical to a Vanguard Veteran.

It's +30 points to turn a Guardsman into a Medic, isn't it?

Ah, I thought you were saying he was only 15 points total, as Sternguard are 25 pts a piece(hence 4 would be 100, which is what you subtracted).

Soooo, for 130 points I can get either a hellhound or a vendetta? Being that the rest of the list can provide pretty easy access to str. 6+ blast marker weapons (griffons, basilisks, manticores, leman russes, etc.) this doesn't seem like much of a competition at all.

Hm. While I was thinking about Vendettas, I decided to re-read the rules for skimmers. The part that caught my eye was the rule about "measuring distances" - the skimmer's base is ignored except when assaulting the skimmer and distances are measured to the hull. Anyone know how tall the new Valk bases are? I'm wondering if this is going to add a few inches of distance to shooting at Valks/Vendettas...and I wonder how many Eldar and Tau players will be appropriating these new bases for their own skimmers.

My second thought with all this talk about Vendettas - the value of the Hydra just went up! (Statistically, you only need 1 Hydra to bring down a Valk/Vendetta.)

Heavy Support: Leman Russ. 1-3 Any combo. HB. Searchlight. Smoke launchers. Lumbering Behemoth. Turret + whatever you can fire normally for your speed. Max speed is 6+d6".

LRBT 150.
Exterminator 150.
Vanquisher 155.
Eradicator 160.
Demolisher 165.
Punisher 180.
Executioner 190.

HB can be a HF for free. HB can be a Lascannon for 15. Sponson HB/HF for 20. MM for 30. PC for 40 ( All variants. Means Standard Russ can have PC / MM ). SB/HS 10. HK 10. Dozer 10. Extra armour 15. Entire squadron: Camo netting for 20.

Knight Commander Pask. 50. No force org. His tank is Bs4. If it Remains stationary it may re-roll to wound with all weapons. If it Remains stationary it may +1 to pen vehicles with all weapons.

Hydra. 75. 1-3. 2 TL Hydra Autocannons. HB. Searchlight. Smokelaunchers. Auto targetting system. Skimmers and turbo-boosters may not use cover saves vs the hydra. HB may be a HF for free. SB/HS 10. HK 10. Extra armour 15. Entire squadron: Camo netting 20.

Ordnance Battery. 1-3. Any combo. HB. Searchlight. Smoke launchers.

Basilisk 125.
Medusa 135.
Colossus 140.
Griffon 75.

HB to a HF for free. Enclosed 15. SB/HS 10. HK 10. Dozer 10. Extra armour 15. Camo netting 30.
Medusa may upgrade to Bastion-breacher rounds for 5pts. It loses it's regular 36" demolisher round for the new stats.

Manticore Rocket Launcher. 160. 4 Storm eagles. HB. Searchlight. Smoke launchers. HB may be a HF for free. SB/HS 10. HK 10. Dozer 10. Extra armour 15. Camo netting 30.

Deathstrike. 160!!! Deathstrike missile. HB. Searchlight. Smoke launchers. HB may be a HF for free. SB/HS 10. HK 10. Dozer 10. Extra armour 15. Camo netting 30.