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guys, can we please not cut and paste the entire post? just link to it? while you're at it, change all the text to all caps and the spelling to 1337 since we're breaking every rule of forum etiquette except dakka's rule #1.

Well I didn't realise helping the forum was such a bad thing.
Sorry for posting the wrong thing.

so do Wolf Guard get deticated transports?

Anpu42 wrote:so do Wolf Guard get deticated transports?

Wolf Guard can take any Dedicated Transport, if I remember correctly.

That is - Rhino, Razorback, Drop Pod, Land Raider (Any).

MinMax wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:so do Wolf Guard get deticated transports?

Wolf Guard can take any Dedicated Transport, if I remember correctly.

That is - Rhino, Razorback, Drop Pod, Land Raider (Any).

So I need 9 more Land Raiders for my Loganwing

The other question i have from a freind of mine.
1] does the Iron Peiwst alow you to take Dreds as Heavys?

warboss wrote:guys, can we please not cut and paste the entire post? just link to it? while you're at it, change all the text to all caps and the spelling to 1337 since we're breaking every rule of forum etiquette except dakka's rule #1.

Hrm, it's a useful post, although it would work better at the beginning of the thread than in the middle

Anyway, it would be nice if there was a spoiler tag for this forum. I don't mean the "write in invisible letters" type, but one you would have to click to view. IE I'd write [spoiler ] looooooong post[ /spoiler] and you'd have to click it to see it.

So a Loganwing could look like this
HQ
-Logan
-Bjorn
Elite
-3 Wolf Guard with LRC
Troops
-6 Wolf Guard with LRC
Fast
-3 Pack Wuffs
Heavys
-3 Land Raiders




I don't even want to thing about the points, but it would look cool

well i just seen th codex today and 15pts per model sweeeeet. and still beserk charge for ma bloodclaws.

hmmmm 2 15man packs of bc's in crusaiders 1 wi wg 1 wi trickster
2 gh packs in rhino's
2 pack wgt in drop pods
long fans at back and 30 fen wolves
iron priest cyber wolves and thralls
sw scouts wi wg who throws his hammer

Hooooooowwwwwwwwwlllllllllllll!!!!!!!!

Loganwing Bikers Gang

HQ
-Logan
-Wolf Prist on Bike

Elite
-3 Wolf Guard on bikes

Troops
-6 Wolf Gurad on Bikes

Fast
-3 Bike Packs

Heavy [For Logan]
-Long Fangs
-LR

number9dream wrote:Anyway, it would be nice if there was a spoiler tag for this forum. I don't mean the "write in invisible letters" type, but one you would have to click to view. IE I'd write [spoiler ] looooooong post[ /spoiler] and you'd have to click it to see it.

Actually, the Spoiler Tags is what does the "invisible letters". The forum coding is set to that, NOT the Spoiler clicky thing like some other Forums have.

See?



Longer posts don't a cut(which is actually what you're thinking of is Cut Coding with a link that says Spoiler), just a larger area of grey.

Ulfur_Vinur wrote:got to hav everythin dp and trnsprt hit hrd nd fst


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gt 2 hv evrytng in vhcls hit hrd nd fst by russ it works

i cant w8 its bn lng time cmng

Oh Sweet Russ... my Eyes... my poor eyes :(

But yeah, I'd love to have a clicky spoiler thing, but I guess the design is copyright or legoburner is too drunk

I'm pretty sure that Wolf Guard may only take one Landraider dedicated transport in a list.

Platuan4th wrote:

number9dream wrote:Anyway, it would be nice if there was a spoiler tag for this forum. I don't mean the "write in invisible letters" type, but one you would have to click to view. IE I'd write [spoiler ] looooooong post[ /spoiler] and you'd have to click it to see it.

Actually, the Spoiler Tags is what does the "invisible letters". The forum coding is set to that, NOT the Spoiler clicky thing like some other Forums have.

See?

Spoiler:

This is using Spoiler Tags on Dakka.

Longer posts don't a cut(which is actually what you're thinking of is Cut Coding with a link that says Spoiler), just a larger area of grey.

What I was trying to say, is that I want "cut coding" - I just didn't know what it was called! That way you can hide gigantic posts inside spoiler tags, without creating a giant grey blank space

Yay lets respond to the latest volley.

Logan looks ridiculously overpriced but necessary for an all WG force (be it wolfwing, wolfangels, wolfscars or a 13th co style force). Does anyone know if WG are still capped at 20 per army? One poster mentioned something like this but most people have ignored it. I assume it is gone but if it is still there that stops all the "all wolfguard" builds right off the bat.

Ragnar looks too pricy too and apparently his D3 doesn't stack with BC's but replaces it. FC is nice though and he does sound like an absolute monster. Maybe one for apocalypse.

Njal however looks absolutely badass and well worth his price. A footslogging force of GH'S with Njal in the centre and skyclaws/wolves as a fast assault wing (with LF support) looks to be a nice force. The storm he gathers and two of the powers (dangerous terrain and pseudoKFF) will be good defensively to protect the footsloggers as you march up the board and once you're in range you can bust out the offensive powers. Plus the Chooser will help keep infiltrators away from objectives and your main battle line.

Q does runic armour stop you riding a rhino?

According to this summary Ulrik does nothing different to a normal Wolf Priest. What happened to T5?

Canis - finally a character that looks reasonably pointed. A beast in cc and allows for a wholly unique army in 40k (all cav). He is going to be the basis of some odd builds. I don't know how well he fits into a more normal force though.

Bjorn - looks awesome but far too pricy for most games. Would be good with a footsloggers or drop pod force to confer his re-rolls.

Lukas - might be fun. That stasis bomb is situationally powerful and a good way of removing the enemies uber units. He looks useful if only for adding more punch to a BC squad. Something they sorely need now.

Arjak - If he was a HQ choice I'd take him every game. As a WG upgrade he looks way too pricy to include normally. Might be fun in a larger game though.

Wolf Lords allow one WG squad as troops do they? That's interesting and much more alluring to me than logan. 3 squads of GH and a squad of tooled up WG with a wolf lord would make a good basis for a mech force. Without scoring you probably need to fill the 4th troop slot. Bear looks mandatory and warrior born looks pretty good too.

WGBL - solid for the points.

WP - preferred enemy infantry plus priest plus skyclaws with WG looks like a nice little combo. Cheap too.

RP - so good but then you look at Njal. All the powers seem good though
Maw of Fenrir = dead fexes and potentially good for sniping enemy weapons.
Chain lightning = dead rhinos, turns a rune priest into a mini lootas squad with assault weapons. A bit prone to luck though (anywhere between 3 and 18 shots)
Stormcaller = mandatory for a footslogging force. Be interesting to see if it effects vehicles, in which case most mech forces will want it too.
Hurricane - seems a bit meh, S3hits under a template. Good for clearing horde and maybe for a DPing priest but generally, meh.
the 3D6 s3 hits that cause a unit to move in difficult terrain looks tactically useful. good for footslogegrs or DP as it slows a counter assault.
the storm that causes depps trike, jump packs, skimmers, etc to move as dangrous/difficult also looks good for preventing a counter assault.
Freki and Geki looks a bit naff.

Lone Wolves really need some way to close with the enemy. No bikes or jump pack sucks for that. No transport and no infiltrate or scout. They look like an absolute bargain but unless you plan on running footsloggers will have problems actually getting into combat.

BC's got worse and more expensive. GH's got cheaper and better. BC still look okay in isolation but compared to skyclaws and grey hunters they look awful. Still Grey Hnters look amazing. 10 men in a rhino with p-fist, pp, motw, wg with pf and combi-melta will be my load out for my mech force.
BC's really only have a place as a bodyguard for an IC rolling in an LRC. And even that is challenged if a wolf lord allows for a troops wolf guard squad.
That is unless berserk charge works with counter-charge?

Thunderwolf Cavalry look like one of those units that will be great if you build a list around them (i.e. spam them) but tricky to include in a standard list. They're as tough as bikes although a bit slower than bikes but benefit from multiple weapon layout/wound allocation fiddliness . With Canis they'll be an amazing army. In a regular army I can see people using them but I don't really know if the pts are there once you build up a decent troops base.

Fenrisians on the other hand look amazing. A dirt cheap fast disposable assault unit that hits as hard as most SM assault squads! Yes please. Run behind rhinos they offer a wealth of possibilities (charge at the same time as you unload the hunters to prevent being charged, tie up units to help the BC's, etc) or with a footslogging force they offer the chance of a 2nd turn assault whilst your GH's are still advancing, tying up and reducing enemy shooting (and maybe breaking some units). Great unit.

Skyclaws - want. BC's that can usually guarantee a charge and for only 30pts more. Vulnerable in an otherwise mech force but in a DP or footsloggers tey'll rock hard.

Long Fangs - actually look god for the first time in ages. I may actually take them ,particularly with 5 HB's for 100pts (who needs an exterminator) or 5 missle launchers for 125. They don't really work still in a mech or DP list but in a footslogging force they'd make a nice fire support base and help reduce the proble, with footsloggers (that you can't kill anything until turn 2-3). They'll be good for planetstrike too as presently wolves on the defensive struggle.

radiohazard wrote:I yoinked this info from warseer.
Psychic Powers include:
Maw of Fenrir - Measure out 24" and anything touched by the line must pass an Initiative test or be removed from play. Monstrous creatures get -1 to their roll.

This is possibly the most broken psychic power I've seen - including lash. Putting the priest on a bike means he has a very good chance of catching multiple larger models in one shot. Even with a -1 to their roll, outright removing 2 or 3 carnifexes with one psychic test is ludicrous. Works on walkers? So that's then a 50% chance to zap a defiler or soulgrinder, even better against ork walkers. At least Lash requires synergy in a list and other elements to be effective. This is just point&click simple.

Redbeard wrote:

radiohazard wrote:I yoinked this info from warseer.
Psychic Powers include:
Maw of Fenrir - Measure out 24" and anything touched by the line must pass an Initiative test or be removed from play. Monstrous creatures get -1 to their roll.

This is possibly the most broken psychic power I've seen - including lash. Putting the priest on a bike means he has a very good chance of catching multiple larger models in one shot. Even with a -1 to their roll, outright removing 2 or 3 carnifexes with one psychic test is ludicrous. Works on walkers? So that's then a 50% chance to zap a defiler or soulgrinder, even better against ork walkers. At least Lash requires synergy in a list and other elements to be effective. This is just point&click simple.

Doesn't seem to require LOS either, so load up in a LRC...drive around and point/click death...

GUO dead on a 4+
Plague Marines dead on a 4+
Nob Bikers dead on a 4+
Fex dead on a 3+

Doesn't an init test let you roll lower or equal? Are plague marines really init 3? I must have missed that.

And wasn't it already said that it has no effect on vehicles?

Is it really so hard for the tyranid player to kill the RP before he gets within 24" of his carnifxes (flyrant anyone)? Or to stagger his fexes so they aren't in a straight line and all get killed by one shot.

Its a psychic shooting attack so while it doesn't requie LOS you still need a firepoint to use it right?

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Doesn't an init test let you roll lower or equal?

Sure, but a carni is I1, so even with a +1, that's a 2/3 chance to kill a 150 point model, each turn. Assuming a cheap elite fex, you're still getting an expected return of 75 points/turn out of it - and that's if you can only line one up... That's a huge return by any standard.

Are plague marines really init 3? I must have missed that.

They are.

And wasn't it already said that it has no effect on vehicles?

I hadn't seen that. I could see it not work on vehicles without an I characteristic.

Is it really so hard for the tyranid player to kill the RP before he gets within 24" of his carnifxes (flyrant anyone)?

I dunno, is it? What ranged attacks do the nids have available with a greater range, that can't be soaked by the squad the priest is with? What do they have that can kill a priest who is arriving in a pod?

Or to stagger his fexes so they aren't in a straight line and all get killed by one shot.

I left this one separate because it's actually the most interesting. If your priest has a move of 6" (on foot) then it might be easy enough to stagger the targets. But, if he's on a bike, or in a rhino, it becomes much harder. Figuring that the big targets are on 60mm bases, that gives a good range to draw a line through. If he's close enough to use it, then it isn't all that hard to use those 12" to set up a position that will net you at least two targets. As you get closer to one target, it's even easier to get a line that goes through at least one additional. Consider the case of arriving in a pod. You can't scatter into the fexes, so you can drop as close as possible, and position the pod for maximum line potential...

Its a psychic shooting attack so while it doesn't requie LOS you still need a firepoint to use it right?

Rhinos have firepoints.

There are no ways to stagger two fexes so that two can't be hit by a single line (other than leaving them more than 2' apart in this case)

Gwar! wrote:
But yeah, I'd love to have a clicky spoiler thing, but I guess the design is copyright or legoburner is too drunk

Or Not drunk enough. You should buy him a drink when you get the chance... and me.

Guinness!

as for the puppies.... they look very strong... way stronger then one would expect...

Do the Special characters come with invul saves?

Redbeard wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Doesn't an init test let you roll lower or equal?

Sure, but a carni is I1, so even with a +1, that's a 2/3 chance to kill a 150 point model, each turn. Assuming a cheap elite fex, you're still getting an expected return of 75 points/turn out of it - and that's if you can only line one up... That's a huge return by any standard.

I wonder how many people will buy the I2 upgrade for Carnies for just in case they run into Puppies.

Redbeard wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Doesn't an init test let you roll lower or equal?

Sure, but a carni is I1, so even with a +1, that's a 2/3 chance to kill a 150 point model, each turn. Assuming a cheap elite fex, you're still getting an expected return of 75 points/turn out of it - and that's if you can only line one up... That's a huge return by any standard.

Oh yes don't get me wrong. This power is the carni killer. But some users are claiming it is the most broken power in the game. so lets examine the utility a little. The line is straight but thin and the majority of troops in the game have an init at least of 3. That is a 50% chance of killing them, worse vs marines and eldar and you won't hit that many models.

Clearly the utility is for sniping equipment models, killing large monsters and killing expensive models.

Against the majority of IC's you're looking at an init of 4 or 5 so the power has a less than 50% chance of working and requires a psychic test and a positional element. Sure you could kill Vulcan in one shot but it really isn't that much more effective than zogwort at doing this and he isn't a game breaker.

For sniping equipment troops you have to line up your priest exactly. You may get lucky and get a few such troops in a line (particularly devvys or a similar unit) and you will probably get some regular troopers to boot but generally you'll be positioning to get one guy and as many others as you can get in the line. Then as I said you usually have a 50% or less chance of killing that model. That is worse than mind war.

It will be good for killing a squad of expensive models (TH/SS termies, nob bikers) that are otherwise hard to shoot or assault. I don't mind having a counter in the game for units like this and again it isn't like the SM/Ork player isn't going to be aware of the power and acting accordingly to limit its use.

It really comes into its own when you consider monstrous creatures with a low initiative which basically means carnifexes. so we've got a powerful psychic power which is useful against hard to kill elite units and carnifxes and of middling effectiveness against most everything else. Wow, what a game breaker. Clearly that is the most broken power ever.

Now admittedly this does suck for nidzilla players I agree.

Redbeard wrote:

Are plague marines really init 3? I must have missed that.

They are.

Redbeard wrote:

And wasn't it already said that it has no effect on vehicles?

I hadn't seen that. I could see it not work on vehicles without an I characteristic.

I don't have the codex but the original description of the power in this thread specifies it has no effect on vehicles. If it can effect walkers it does become a lot more powerful I'll grant you. Kanwall lists are buggered and soulgrinders will go bye bye.

Redbeard wrote:

Is it really so hard for the tyranid player to kill the RP before he gets within 24" of his carnifxes (flyrant anyone)?

I dunno, is it? What ranged attacks do the nids have available with a greater range, that can't be soaked by the squad the priest is with? What do they have that can kill a priest who is arriving in a pod?

Why does it have to be ranged attacks? Does the nid player have no fast assault units? He plays nids, an army composed principally of fleeting assault units. Swamp the priest with gaunts or hormies. 1st, 2nd turn assault him with infiltrating genestealers. Spring a lictor on him. Use a flyrant. Suicide rending raveners? And yes you can shoot from outside the powers effective range with some relatively nasty guns.

Redbeard wrote:

Or to stagger his fexes so they aren't in a straight line and all get killed by one shot.

I left this one separate because it's actually the most interesting. If your priest has a move of 6" (on foot) then it might be easy enough to stagger the targets. But, if he's on a bike, or in a rhino, it becomes much harder. Figuring that the big targets are on 60mm bases, that gives a good range to draw a line through. If he's close enough to use it, then it isn't all that hard to use those 12" to set up a position that will net you at least two targets. As you get closer to one target, it's even easier to get a line that goes through at least one additional. Consider the case of arriving in a pod. You can't scatter into the fexes, so you can drop as close as possible, and position the pod for maximum line potential...

Alright in a standard 48" table if the priest deploys directly opposite a carnie and both the priest and carnie are very close to 12" from the edge than a priest on foot can shoot him 1st turn. If the carnie deploys more than 6" back then the priest on foot can't shoot until turn 2. And this is just one carnie. If they are spread out far enough apart the priest likely won't have range to any others. By turn 3 he can start angling to get multiples so that is 2-3 turns for the nid player to mob him with an assault unit.

On a bike it gets much better for the wolf player. 12" move plus shoot means that he can likely squeeze off a shot first turn regardless of how far back the carnie is. Moreso by turn 2 he has covered 24" and has probably gone up the side and closer to the fex which, as you correctly say, will allow him to angle to get multiple fexes. The drawback here is that he needs a squad of bikers (either naff swiftclaws or expensive wolfguard) or he'll just get shot to death. And again you have a turn or 2 as the nid player to assault a unit which is COMING TOWARDS YOU before he can angle to get multiple fexes.

On a jetpack is much the same as a bike.

In a rhino I can't actually remember if you can move 12" and fire from the hatch. If you can then this would be an improvement on the bike as the nid player will struggle to shoot/assault the priest.

With a pod it will obviously get to fire and there is now way to stop that but you're relying on a lucky drop to line up more than one and for your carnifex the nid player gets to counter assault a unit that is right in his lines.

Also remember that the priest can't get an invulnerable outside of a storm shield.

Redbeard wrote:

Its a psychic shooting attack so while it doesn't requie LOS you still need a firepoint to use it right?

Rhinos have firepoints.

They do. LRC's don't though unlike one poster suggested. A nid army can with difficulty kill a rhino with shooting. They are much less likely to kill and LRC with shooting.


Don't get me wrong guys this is a really powerful power and it is going to suck for nidzilla players (boo hoo) but I hardly think we're looking at the new lash here.

I dont get why people think the characters are too costly for normal games..

Character combos WIN games especially special characters. Their price is irrelevant if their unique abilities win you games.. Even if they arent special characters, most armies have popular builds that only work because of characters

It doesnt matter if logan costs 275 pts if you can find a build that exploits his abilities and lets you win most games.. same for ragnar, etc

I think I'll play the DW when the new SW dex comes out and see what happens.

As a DW player, I would much more like the ability to have +1 Str PW vs. PF/Claw/THammer option on reg termi's.

The ability to mix and match doesn't mean much when ye' old Storm Bolter doesn't kill anything and I don't get +1 Str/Int on the charge.

But I'm not having to fill my HS slots for dedicated trans . . . oh wait, yeah I am.

Just make sure ol' Phil does the DA/BA/BT codexs too.

I am a bit curious about playing the all calvary wolf bomb. But, how am I to go about securing that many figures.

*Briefly glances at my island of misfits (my shelf lined with mid nids and hormies that have gathered dust since 4rth Edition)*

Wait a second I know...Tyranids counts as Space Wolves Wolf Calvery army. Lets see: Hormies can count as wolves (ironic isn't it), Tyranid Warriors can counts as wolf riders, Ravenors can count as WG riding Wolves, Old One Eye can count as Canis, and the Zoes can count as rune priests riding wolves. (Tears up) Oh its so wonderfull to finally get some actual use out of my nids .

Uriels_Flame wrote:I think I'll play the DW when the new SW dex comes out and see what happens.

As a DW player, I would much more like the ability to have +1 Str PW vs. PF/Claw/THammer option on reg termi's.

The ability to mix and match doesn't mean much when ye' old Storm Bolter doesn't kill anything and I don't get +1 Str/Int on the charge.

But I'm not having to fill my HS slots for dedicated trans . . . oh wait, yeah I am.

Just make sure ol' Phil does the DA/BA/BT codexs too.

Careful, Wolfguard may still have the 20 model per army cap. A 24 man strong DW force isn't going to win many games.

No deathwing assault either.

Where are you getting +1str/+1init on the charge from? Only ragnar grants that and he doesn't have termie armour.

Platuan4th wrote:

Redbeard wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Doesn't an init test let you roll lower or equal?

Sure, but a carni is I1, so even with a +1, that's a 2/3 chance to kill a 150 point model, each turn. Assuming a cheap elite fex, you're still getting an expected return of 75 points/turn out of it - and that's if you can only line one up... That's a huge return by any standard.

I wonder how many people will buy the I2 upgrade for Carnies for just in case they run into Puppies.

Hopefully 'Nids will get some anti-psyker in the next edition (Feb. maybe?). That and maybe Fexes will work differently. Ahh. . .we can hope.

wyomingfox wrote:I am a bit curious about playing the all calvary wolf bomb. But, how am I to go about securing that many figures.

*Briefly glances at my island of misfits (my shelf lined with mid nids and hormies that have gathered dust since 4rth Edition)*

Wait a second I know...Tyranids counts as Space Wolves Wolf Calvery army. Lets see: Hormies can count as wolves (ironic isn't it), Tyranid Warriors can counts as wolf riders, Ravenors can count as WG riding Wolves, Old One Eye can count as Canis, and the Zoes can count as rune priests riding wolves. (Tears up) Oh its so wonderfull to finally get some actual use out of my nids .

That sounds surprisingly workable....and actually the nids aren't too badly represented save/stat wise. Although I assume you mean the red terror not old one eye and maybe swap ravenors and warriors. Shame there is no synapse equivalent + you may have a lot of trouble with tankbusting but go for it. I'd play that.

I play nids in 5th still, so I am use to low tank busting power . So much so that I have been contemplating painting tread marks on the back of my nids.

It will be interesting to see what the weapon layout and BS is for Wolf Riders. Chainfists, meltaguns, combimeltas, melta bombs will be important. But who says a few DP MultiMelting Dreads can't show up in the mix...you know...boomfex's

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Careful, Wolfguard may still have the 20 model per army cap. A 24 man strong DW force isn't going to win many games.

No deathwing assault either.

Where are you getting +1str/+1init on the charge from? Only ragnar grants that and he doesn't have termie armour.

Wolf guard are limited to 3-10 in a squad. So you can choose that 3 times as elites, or 6 times as troops (provided you take logan)

So your potentially looking at up to 60 terminators in an army, along with logan.