10 armies that deserve a codex before Blood Angels

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**Black Blow Fly**

wuestenfux wrote:BA deserves a codex.
How many armies are out there whose codex was jervisified?
DA and BA.
But DA got a printed codex, BA not.

This.

**Callum**

I think new codex's should be released in this order.

1. Dark Eldar
2. Tau
3. Necrons
4. Witch Hunters
5. Demon Hunters
6. Most of the rest need updates but can survive for the moment.

1. It's simple, nobody plays Dark Eldar. It's because their Dark Eldar Warriors look just awful and there are not a lot of options in the codex making the army boring to build. New codex's usually lead to new models and that's what Dark Eldar need right now. They need it more than Space Marines imho.

2. Nothing really wrong with Tau, it's an army a lot of players want to love. The problem is the Tau are at the moment a bottom tier army, and in tournament play I have yet to see a Tau player score well enough to get out of the bottom tier. Updates rules are what's needed, new models I don't really think they need, just the rules.

3. Necrons, again hardly anyone plays them. They are devastated by the Phase Out rule. If the opponent can't phase you out, he is bad or you are really good. Their low I means the opponent will score an automatic sweep in close combat. Necrons just can't handle MEQ in this edition. Updated rules are badly needed. New models? another tank would be welcome, but mostly they just need rule changes.

4. I've only seen one player actually play this army, it looks horrible on the table and is easily countered. The models are so static and the same it's just awful to look at, new plastic kits please.

5. Needs an update, they can still be good but they are an army of a previous edition, and it shows.

6. The rest of the armies out there could obviously use updates but are top tier armies or can just survive for a while, until the bottom tiers have been updated.

**Krimmsonscurge**

wuestenfux wrote:
olympia wrote:A great premise for a thread. But what about the Tau and Necrons? Those poor bastards deserve all the help they can get.

I think Tau will be considered next.
They have higher sales at the Asian market and deserve a new codex.

The Tau nead a forge world titan model IMO (not a giant transport)

DE are terible looking but are perfect for the fan boys in this post and should have a new codex soonest. They just need new figures for their DE named charachters Bella and Edward and its off to the publishers.

Everybody knows the french are surrendermonkeys but cheating to get into the world cup I never thought I would see the day, SHAME on them!

**pretre**

Callum wrote: I think new codex's should be released in this order.

4. Witch Hunters

4. I've only seen one player actually play this army, it looks horrible on the table and is easily countered. The models are so static and the same it's just awful to look at, new plastic kits please.

Really? Witch Hunters need a serious update but Sisters are one of the best troops choices in the game. They have two very competitive list types, if played right, semi-mech and fully-mech spam. Both of which are anything but static having majority movement / mech and a mid range strategy. As well, they have held up great in the scheme of things for appearance.

I think you saw a poorly played WH army.

**DruidODurham**

Pretty sure he meant the models themselves were static, due to the vast amount of metal models.

**Black Blow Fly**

GW should release the new codices in the order which nets them the most profit and long lived success. You have to take the long view when it comes to something like a schedule. I think the fundamental problem here with people saying DE deserve the next codex is they are taking the short view. Face the facts, DE was only released with the advent of 3rd edition and they are the most unpopular army of all. The writing is on hte wall... GW learned their lesson when they publicly stated that Squats would be discontinued. It's better in their opinion for people to say that an army deserves a new codex rather than to say they hate GW for deleting their favorite army. If DE never get another codex you can always play the army as counts as using the eldar codex. Heck you could get really creative and use the Tyranid codex.

No other army received a new codex as soon as the Tau did after their original release. I am kind of shocked to be honest that eldar players aren't making a claim they deserve a new codex next as they were seriously nerfed by the release of 5th edition.

Carry on.

G

**Soladrin**

by the gods am i glad i play Orks :3

Back to original post:

Squats: no and never gonna happen
Sensei: a plain no
Mechanicus: would be awesome, and my army no doubt about it, but probably not gonna happen (unless they actually start working on the Void Dragon fluff....)
Ordos Xenos: big fan of this, but an update for DeathWatch with some extra elements would be enough imo (or just give them some pages on te rumored Inq codex, wich i'm all for btw)
Kroot: No, but some special chars etc. so you use them seperately for the hell of it would be fun.
Chaos IG: a must imo.

That said, heres my wishful thinking: All metal kits replaced by plastic multi-part kits... aah.. if only...

**Eidolon**

Green Blow Fly wrote:
No other army received a new codex as soon as the Tau did after their original release. I am kind of shocked to be honest that eldar players aren't making a claim they deserve a new codex next as they were seriously nerfed by the release of 5th edition.

Carry on.

G

Its 'eldar guilt' from 4th edition. Most of us do feel we need a new codex so we arent forced into one list to be marginally competitive. But our dex is only 3 years old, and other armies like demonhunters, tau, and DE need one more

**alexwars1**

You know what games workshop should have done? Rendered all the extra space marine codexes (except Space Wolves) obsolete, and stuck Index Astartes-style things at the back of the Space Marine codex for the top space marine chapters, and let that be that.

**ZacktheChaosChild**

1. Dark Eldar
2. Necrons
3. Nids (Though this will be invalid in les than a month.)
4. Squats
5. Inquisistors
6. Sisters of Battle

Can't really think of any others.

**JohnHwangDD**

Oh, we're just pulling 10 armies out of a hat?

1. Necrons - for the sheer rules stupidity to fix
2. Dark Angels - for the design shift
3. Eldar - to incorporate Biel-Tan natively
4. Chaos Guard - because they're woefully underrep compared to Fluff
5. Ad Mech - because they're just plain cool, and we can use Knight Titans in regular 40k
6. Tau - to expand Xenos allies with Hrud and Donorian Clawed Fiends
7. Black Templars - to give them their share of shiny new SM toys
8. Sisters of Battle - to clean rules
9. Inquisition - to add Deathwatch and fix Allies

I can't think of a 10th army that needs or deserves a Codex at the time, so I leave that spot blank.

**blaktoof**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:The rumblings in the warp are growing and it seems the Red Space Marines might be getting a new codex some time soon. We all know why GW would do it, marines are easy to release sionce 90% of the models are interchangeable, they sell well and they already have a ton of art ready to use.

We also know why they should not, with MEqs making up most of the armies it distorts the game and makes it less fun. Besides the BA already have a codex and models so odds are anyone who wants a BA army already has one and won't pay for a new one, just update the old.

So I humbly offer this list of better alternatives in the hope someone is listening.

10. Daemon Hunters - with no updates since 3rd edition and referring to a SM book that was 2 codexes ago and an IG book that was 1 codex ago this is by far the most out of date book and makes an already weak army even worse.

9. Witch Hunters - no updates since 3rd edition and virtually no new sisters models since 2nd this army needs new rules and plastics STAT!

8. Alien Hunters - the long-awaited 3rd Inquisition army would be easy to do (using mostly marine and IG models) and offer a new way to use them. Give them a high-tech commando look unlike the DH's knights and the WH's puritan look and you have a hit.

7. Squats/Demiurge - Squats were promised back in 1995 and the fact that Dakka's gallery has pages and pages of squat armies shows they still have potential. Give them some steampunk giant mining suits and watch the Warmachine and Bioshock players flock in.

6. Adeptus Mech - speaking of giant baroque warmachines...

5. Kroot - With the addition of one sprue for conversions GW could have a whole new race with a fun theme and name. KROOT-KROOT! Say it! It's fun!

4. Chaos Cults/Lost and the Damned - A no-brainer. THe Imperium's greatest foe, part of the game since Rogue Trader but somehow never had a codex or real models.

3. Chaos Legions - ANother no brainer and this one require almost nothing in the way of new models. Even if it only covers the 4 god-specific legions it will be a surefire hit.

2. THe Sensei - the Emperor's Immortal children are the last force fighitng for good in the 41st millennium, they fill a niche no other army can. Put out some character models and rules for Inquisition type warbands and you're done. Plus they're NINJA JEDI HIGHLANDERS! How can this lose?

1. THe Blood Angles - this little known chapter who use the power of geometry to destroy their foes has never had a codex but has over 200 images in the dakka gallery.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery-search.jsp?dq=blood+angles

Surely they deserve a shot?

So there you go, and I'd like to remind everyone that I did this whole post without once mentioning the Pan Fo.

barring the fact that most of these are imperial...

10 and 9 have 4th edition codexes, not 3rd, they aren't that old.

8= really no point. The test rules for them was garbage and basically came down to either every unit gets special rules versus every xeno which was imbalanced or you have to play "guess which xeno you are facing" and pick a specific xeno to hunt, it didn't work in a tourney setting especially considering how many armies are non xenos in a tournament.

7= This army although it has some following on dakka was actually the 2nd least supported and interested army in 3rd edition. It was going out the door from 1st/2nd still and the rules were prolly just included to let people who had the models play them. Squats could be good but they would have to be redone.

6= 2nd edition army, actually had some decent units but is not supported due to lack of interest, yes I know there are beautiful models and conversions out there but most people did not want to play an entirely ad mech force.

5= kroot, seriously would have to be redone. Their last codex which was chapter approved was garbage, they really had nothing. They could be a interesting army but currently they are not. Their entire codex and line of thought behind the army would have to change.

4= I agree

3= I agree, but should come out long before lost and the damned/chaos cults

2= never had a codex, were never mentioned as an army and were basically just a single unit that you could add to grey knights armies from first edition 40k in the slaves to darkness book. Honestly the emperor may have gotten around with the ladies but he prolly doesnt have an army of kids.

**Farseer Prometheus**

Green Blow Fly wrote:GW should release the new codices in the order which nets them the most profit and long lived success. You have to take the long view when it comes to something like a schedule. I think the fundamental problem here with people saying DE deserve the next codex is they are taking the short view. Face the facts, DE was only released with the advent of 3rd edition and they are the most unpopular army of all. The writing is on hte wall... GW learned their lesson when they publicly stated that Squats would be discontinued. It's better in their opinion for people to say that an army deserves a new codex rather than to say they hate GW for deleting their favorite army. If DE never get another codex you can always play the army as counts as using the eldar codex. Heck you could get really creative and use the Tyranid codex.

No other army received a new codex as soon as the Tau did after their original release. I am kind of shocked to be honest that eldar players aren't making a claim they deserve a new codex next as they were seriously nerfed by the release of 5th edition.

Carry on.

G

But remember a lot of people don't run dark eldar for these reasons: 1. Old and bad looking models, 2. A extremely old codex, 3. Limited amount of lore to go on. You see if GW does make a new DE codex and new models they stand to make a ton of money here why: Right now most people either don't have a dark eldar army or they have a small collection not counting DE players a course. If GW makes sure to release good models along with a nice shiny new codex people won't be just buying say a few units or anything instead they will be buying brand new armies. That why I think GW is taking their time and making sure they get it right this time. I do agree with you on the eldar codex I guess they rather wait till other armies get fixed first before getting their new codex.

**Black Blow Fly**

Can you guys take this over to Survivor Games? It seems appropriate to be honest.

G

**JohnHwangDD**

Farseer Prometheus wrote: You see if GW does make a new DE codex and new models they stand to make a ton of money

When DE were originally released, they had a brand new Codex, brand new models on par with anything else available at the time, and comparable Fluff with Codices released at the time. What would make this time different?

**Farseer Prometheus**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Farseer Prometheus wrote: You see if GW does make a new DE codex and new models they stand to make a ton of money

When DE were originally released, they had a brand new Codex, brand new models on par with anything else available at the time, and comparable Fluff with Codices released at the time. What would make this time different?

While I not quite sure what was available back then due to being a kid and all I guessing play style. However nowadays the main reason I see people not buying them is due to crap models. I myself think the codex and models are mostly fine except for a course some outdated rules and horrible units but otherwise a solid codex.

**(._.)**

We need new rulebook, like wh60k! where is nothing left after nids ate all and died to hunger! Your main goal is to get something to happen, like if you roll d6 at the start you can see a breeze, or with like many rolls you could actually see something moving... NOT!

**Black Blow Fly**

The Nidz would start eating each other if they ran out of other races.

G

**Archonate**

JohnHwangDD wrote:When DE were originally released, they had a brand new Codex, brand new models on par with anything else available at the time

Nope. Even back then their models sucked. Even back then the banana-fingered Archon in the princess hat was easily the most disappointing commander model in the game. In fact the only models in the entire range that didn't suck from the start were the Wyches, (though they suck now) and the Incubi, which are merely okay now.

and comparable Fluff with Codices released at the time.

Nope again. There has never been a codex before or since the DE codex with not only less fluff, but less interesting and less coherent fluff than that which you'll find in the DE codex. It was the most boring when it emerged and remains so to this day.

What would make this time different?

Models that don't suck and fluff that doesn't suck.

**Black Blow Fly**

I agree that if GW does roll out a DE codex with lots of awesome new models they would stand to make good profit. What I like the most about the dark eldar is their background. Dark eldar are the true eldar. The only ones who survived the Great Fall when Slaanesh came to birth must have been those who were off world when their home planet was destroyed. As such they were forced to relocate and are limited in technology as opposed to eldar. Eldar were basically hippies who had foresight and started building craftworlds. It's all pretty amazing when you think about it. What would interesting is would dark eldar get to field Harlequins if they got a new army.

G

**JohnHwangDD**

All of the late 40k 2E / early 40k 3E metal models had problems, and DE weren't obviously worse. Heck, look at the 5E WFB metal stuff on sale back then, esp. Undead. I have the GW catalogs, and I know what I'm talking about. Remember the "new" 3E Eldar Aspects, esp. the Scorpions? Ugh. Or the carryover Necrons? Right. But back in 1998, when 3E came out, the DE models were perfectly adequate, if not state of the art.

All of the early 3E Codices were paper-thin Fluff-wise. The sub-Dex BA / DA / SW and Armag armies were especially weak Fluff-wise.

Only in apples-to-oranges comparison to much later armies, do DE suffer. But for the first 3+ years, DE were properly competitive in terms of model breadth and other elements. To marginalize those as excuses then raises the question why other armies succeeded.

IMO, DE failed on their own merits.

**racta**

To this day, I still think Raiders are the coolest transports ever. I'd like to see DE get a new codex and models, but not before BA!

**Archonate**

racta wrote:To this day, I still think Raiders are the coolest transports ever.

See I just think the tail fins are way too exaggerated. Many times I've contemplated clipping mine off, but didn't because of the risk of being accused of cheating by cutting down model size. Especially now that we have TLoS to fuss with.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Green Blow Fly wrote:I agree that if GW does roll out a DE codex with lots of awesome new models they would stand to make good profit. What I like the most about the dark eldar is their background. Dark eldar are the true eldar. The only ones who survived the Great Fall when Slaanesh came to birth must have been those who were off world when their home planet was destroyed. As such they were forced to relocate and are limited in technology as opposed to eldar. Eldar were basically hippies who had foresight and started building craftworlds. It's all pretty amazing when you think about it. What would interesting is would dark eldar get to field Harlequins if they got a new army.

G

OT
I would not have guessed we have so much in common.
Though I don't know if I'd say DE are more limited in technology. I think they just kinda went a different direction with theirs.
And, though I think it would be interesting for DE to employ Harlequins, I tend to think the Harlequins aren't especially interested in what the DE do. I suppose it's possible, but it doesn't quite jive with the spirit of the army as I perceive it.

I think the game needs more GEQ armies but I don't think GW needs to develop an entirely new army, I think DE could fill that void very nicely.

**phantommaster**

JohnHwangDD wrote:Oh, we're just pulling 10 armies out of a hat?

1. Necrons - for the sheer rules stupidity to fix
2. Dark Angels - for the design shift
3. Eldar - to incorporate Biel-Tan natively
4. Chaos Guard - because they're woefully underrep compared to Fluff
5. Ad Mech - because they're just plain cool, and we can use Knight Titans in regular 40k
6. Tau - to expand Xenos allies with Hrud and Donorian Clawed Fiends
7. Black Templars - to give them their share of shiny new SM toys
8. Sisters of Battle - to clean rules
9. Inquisition - to add Deathwatch and fix Allies

I can't think of a 10th army that needs or deserves a Codex at the time, so I leave that spot blank.

Dark Eldar, it is such a bad codex.

**Lexx**

1. Ordos Xenos
2. Dark Eldar
3. Adeptus Mechanicus
4. Lost and damned
5. Iron Hands Space marines ( full chapter to expand on the upgrade sprue they released )
6. Kroot mercenary/Alien merc races
7. Demon Hunters
8. Tau
9. Necrons
10. More guard troop models

**wuestenfux**

BA will be released after Nids next year.
That's absolutely good news for all those BA players.
Me as a BA player don't care who will then be next.

**Superscope**

Necrons and dark eldar in that order, followed by tau, DH, WH and then the other space marine codex.

Necrons have the worst setup for 5th by far.. extremely poor resistance to sweeping advance, limited by phase out. The only real thing that works well with necrons is monolith spam.

**wuestenfux**

Well, DE would deserve a new codex.
But this would require to provide a decent background for the DE kin.
I would rather see room for an Exodite codex.
The 40k universe is eventually full of Exodite worlds.

**Kid_Kyoto**

blaktoof wrote:barring the fact that most of these are imperial...

Which is how it should be. 40k players are human (well except maybe for that guy who comes in from time to time, I'm sure he has some ork blood in him), human history and culture is the only one rooted in reality and most of the xenos races are just fantasy archetypes with ray guns. Except for Tau who are limp British rip offs of anime.

10 and 9 have 4th edition codexes, not 3rd, they aren't that old.

OK, I can tell you're new here and so I'll go easy on you. I'm sitting here with Daemon Hunters (copyright 2003) and Witch Hunters (early 2004). 4th came out in late 2004. Yes Blaktoof, THEY REALLY ARE THAT OLD.

8= really no point. The test rules for them was garbage and basically came down to either every unit gets special rules versus every xeno which was imbalanced or you have to play "guess which xeno you are facing" and pick a specific xeno to hunt, it didn't work in a tourney setting especially considering how many armies are non xenos in a tournament.

What test rules? You mean the Death Watch squads?

The Xenos Hunters are a no-brainer army to make. Take the generic =I= units, add Stern Guard squads and then add a bunch of Xenos mercenaries for the radicals. Eldar, Kroot and Ork mercs are easy. then throw in some of the races we've glimpsed but never had minis for, the Hurd, the Demiurge and so on.

Forget specilized anti-alien stuff, as you said it's really hard to balance, focus on using this book to bring in Rogue traders, funky aliens and all the rich stuff in the background that for now does not have a home. Give them a biohazard kind of look with Strom Troopers in sealed suits and lots of chem warfare weapons and you have a winning army.

7= This army although it has some following on dakka was actually the 2nd least supported and interested army in 3rd edition. It was going out the door from 1st/2nd still and the rules were prolly just included to let people who had the models play them. Squats could be good but they would have to be redone.

Squats are awesome and anyone who says otherwise is a communist. Steampunk sells and GW is missing the boat.

6= 2nd edition army, actually had some decent units but is not supported due to lack of interest, yes I know there are beautiful models and conversions out there but most people did not want to play an entirely ad mech force.

That might be because they never released figures for it hmm?

5= kroot, seriously would have to be redone. Their last codex which was chapter approved was garbage, they really had nothing. They could be a interesting army but currently they are not. Their entire codex and line of thought behind the army would have to change.

Kroot should be an army of mercenaries and carrion eaters with equipment stolen and salvaged from across the galaxy. They should be the Space Skaven, popping up where you don't expect them.

4= I agree

And well you should.

3= I agree, but should come out long before lost and the damned/chaos cults

because the game desperately needs more MEqs. MOAR MARINEZZZ!

2= never had a codex, were never mentioned as an army and were basically just a single unit that you could add to grey knights armies from first edition 40k in the slaves to darkness book. Honestly the emperor may have gotten around with the ladies but he prolly doesnt have an army of kids.

Um no. Come back when you've read their rules OK?

The Jedi Ninja Highlanders in Space were the leaders of the army, the R&F were humans, eldar and people they had reclaimed from Chaos. A powerful and really cool mix that counter acts the GRIMDARK of 40k. Imagine them in flowing robes, with glowing swords and not a skull to be seen.

And I see you didn't even address the Mighty Blood Angles (For Great Pythagoras!). Obviously they must get the next codex, followed by their arch enemies the Dark Angles.

**Black Blow Fly**

I don't know if you are being serious and to be honest it's hard to give you the benefit of the doubt.

G