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BA deserve a real codex.

G

Blood Angels need a codex that brings them into the 5th Edition with the style they had in the previous editions. And the ad hoc codex in the White Dwarf was a lame attempt at updating them. They need a real codex like their other brethren have gotten (or will get).

And I'm glad my Nid's are getting their new codex soon, I can't wait to see what they've changed.

Cheers

Kid_Kyoto wrote:We have 4 (FOUR!) marine codexes in print, plus Spikey Marines. .

Oh, no, the sky is falling!

BA does deserve a real codex. Its too bad they already got one.

Codex: Space Marines has everything you need to run a Blood Angels army. Sure, you won't get a death company with feel no pain or a special predator... but with the current nerf to defensive weapons will you EVER use that pred's special movement in 5th? No. You don't get Dante or Corbulo... but Dante's little sphere of win can end up killing your army and corbulo just doesn't cut the mustard anymore.

Here's what you use from the new codex: You get a special character (shrike) that enhances the ability of your army to get into CC. You get updated tacticals and assault squads. You get a dreadnought with two close combat weapons (ironclad... ish). You get a 'special' assault squad that can do crazy things (and sub for death company). Oh wait, did you just incorporate all the fluff without changing the rules? Yeah, you did. Fluff is the way you play AND the rules you play with, work with it people.

You lot could have made do for quite a while with this but noooo. Another Space Marine codex comes out, the third in a year while Inquisition, Dark Eldar, Necrons, and Tau languish with un-love. Here's a lesson for you GW: if you make it, they will come. Make more models for necrons, make non-bdsm models for DE, make a conversion kit or something cheaper for DH and WH. Then, make a good codex. People will play these armies and diversify the game if they like what they see. Oh, and they'll shell out hundreds of dollars to you. Fancy that.

What do we get from another SM codex? More 3+ armor saves coming at us in more rhinos with some flying buggers to 'flesh' out the army is not going to diversify the game. Oh, but wait: to make BA 'fluffier' they'll be adding Space Marine Red Dragon Cavalry; because nothing screams futuristic killing machines more than riding on a poorly rendered animal-thing.

BA may want a new codex all their own but the GAME needs diversity. Long live XENOS.

/Rant

Let's take a look at the armies. I'll rate each one as 3rd, 4th, 4.5th or 5th edition.

1) Black Templars - 3rd
2) Blood Angels - 4.5th
3) Dark Angels - 4.5th
4) Chaos Space Marines/Chaos Daemons - 5th
5) Daemon Hunters - 3rd
6) Dark Eldar - 3rd
7) Eldar - 4th
8) Imperial Guard - 5th
9) Necrons - 3rd
10) Orks - 5th
11) Space Marines - 5th
12) Space Wolves - 5th
13) Sisters of Battle - 3rd
14) Tyranids - 4th

So that is 14 of the 16 armies and I can't remember the other two off the top of my head. So here are the 3rd edition codices still floating around...

1) Black Templars - 3rd
2) Daemon Hunters - 3rd
3) Dark Eldar - 3rd
4) Necrons - 3rd
5) Sisters of Battle - 3rd

Ordos will most likely be lumped into one codex so that brings the list down to four. I have heard Dark Eldar is going the way of the dodo bird (sorry!) so that cuts it down to three. My bet is Necrons will be the next 3rd edition codex to be upgraded to 5th. Personally I also have my doubts about the Templars... First and foremost they are not one of the original legions and were put into a codex to satisfy a special interest group. So really depending on how it all pans out it's not that bad at all.

I thinking anyone screaming that 3rd edition codices are due first would suddenly start singing a new tune if they were to receive a Jervisized White Dwarf list. Who buys WD anymore???

G

Slackermagee wrote: a special predator... but with the current nerf to defensive weapons will you EVER use that pred's special movement in 5th? No.

Use it all the time. It lets the tank go 12" and fire the TLAC or go 6" and fire everything. It's quite handy. Except when you get a stall.

Also, for all the blood angel players crying about the hate for the anticipated codex release, answer this question honestly:

What would your reaction have been GW had released Codex: Chaos Space Marines last year, Codex: Thousand Sons two months ago, and was set to release Codex: Alpha Legion in March?

You'd have been pretty pissed, wouldn't you? One race getting all the love like that.

Necrons.

Slackermagee wrote:What would your reaction have been GW had released Codex: Chaos Space Marines last year, Codex: Thousand Sons two months ago, and was set to release Codex: Alpha Legion in March?

I wouldn't have minded because that would mean that there would be a Codex: Word Bearers on the way.

I think it's funny how you guys think there's some sort of proper order of codex releases based on who's most "deserving." If the Dark Eldar, Necrons and Inquisition armies had enough of a sales base they would have been updated already. But they are also-ran armies and just not priorities for GW. Whining about every SM variant codex release doesn't help your case one iota. Those armies will get done on GW's timetable. not yours, mine or anyone else's.

Exactly and this is why Dark Eldar get no love from GW. you rarely ever see them played and those that do think they are the best players.

G

Alright, it didn't sink in the first time so I'll say it again: If you make it, they will come.

Here's a timeline for you:
June 2009: Space Wolves are a small, but excited, cadre of players waiting for their shiny new codex.
September 2009: With the rumor mill flying that small cadre of players explodes, folks from every game store and 40k podcast start frothing at the mouth, wanting to get at the new models and rules
October 2009: Space Wolf player population is easily five times what it was and sales of the NEW models are HOT.

Do you think Space Wolves would have done anywhere near as good without a BRAND NEW model line?

If you make it, they will come. DE and Necrons need new models (and units). If their made shiny, multipart, and detail oriented and you will see an explosion in sales (if not the player base) immediately following the release date.

When you see the new blood angels line (or the conversion kit, assault squad, and dragon-rider-that-you-know-they'll-shoehorn-in) don't be surprised when one or two more people at your FLGS pick up Blood Angels.

Well said Slackermage. But this has been iterated and reiterated many times and people still don't get it. I don't know if they can't understand or if they're deliberately turning a blind eye to the legitimacy of armies besides SMs deserving a new codex.

Current sales of a given army are in no way whatsoever tied to the success of that army's new codex release. Anything and everything will sell depending how nicely it is remade. Past sales are completely irrelevant. Neglect is a huge part of what kills sales, and is undone upon release of a new update.

But despite what you and I have just said, I can almost guarantee that there will be posts later in this very thread saying "They're not popular enough to get a new codex yet!!!" or "GW knows they won't sell so they're not a priority!!!" Just you wait...

Slackermagee wrote:Alright, it didn't sink in the first time so I'll say it again: If you make it, they will come.

I don't know how many out there are like me, but there is nothing GW could do to make me take up Dark Eldar or Necrons. Inquisition I could do.

Do you think Space Wolves would have done anywhere near as good without a BRAND NEW model line?

Do you think Space Wolves would have done anywhere near as good without existing SM players that can add a box of troops and a special character model to their armies and call them wolves?

That's part of what continues to drive SM sales: the versatility you get with one army's worth of models. A buddy of mine has been a SW player for years, but he started playing them as vanilla last year. Now he's back to wolves. I don't count that as part of a huge explosion in wolf players.

When you see the new blood angels line (or the conversion kit, assault squad, and dragon-rider-that-you-know-they'll-shoehorn-in) don't be surprised when one or two more people at your FLGS pick up Blood Angels.

I won't be. I expect half of them to have been new space wolves players from just a few months prior chasing after the newest, shiniest thing.

I for one would love to see a Dark Angles codex, even though I'm no good at math.

Snark aside, I would SO VERY pick up a Sisters army if a new codex came out.

Lets see some xenos love. In a galaxy where everyone is trying to cause humans to go extinct half the battles are imperial civil war of one kind or another.

Arschbombe wrote:

I don't know how many out there are like me, but there is nothing GW could do to make me take up Dark Eldar or Necrons. Inquisition I could do.

Do you think Space Wolves would have done anywhere near as good without existing SM players that can add a box of troops and a special character model to their armies and call them wolves?

That's part of what continues to drive SM sales: the versatility you get with one army's worth of models. A buddy of mine has been a SW player for years, but he started playing them as vanilla last year. Now he's back to wolves. I don't count that as part of a huge explosion in wolf players.

I won't be. I expect half of them to have been new space wolves players from just a few months prior chasing after the newest, shiniest thing.

People say they won't play an army. Then I saw them all pick up boxes of space wolves when they saw the quality of the rules and models.

Yes, I'm sure that existing SM players got bored of being vanilla vodka but both podcasts I've listened to has had one member pick up SW fresh and we had a one convert to SW from nids at the FLGS. New models, new players. Period.

I can understand playing as vanilla marines, the codex is great. It's what GW should have expected BA players to do instead of pumping out that absolute gak PDF. Blurg.

Green Blow Fly wrote:BA deserve a real codex.

G

Uh... there are a lot of chapters/legions/craftworlds/regiments/hive-fleets/squats that got shuffled off over the years. Yeah, I'd love to see some great fluffy codexes come out for all of them but I'm pretty sure that would put GW well into the red for the next 10 years.

How about some quality PDF's twice a year? Find the one guy in the GW studio who enjoys the fluff for that chapter/legion/craftworld/regiment/hive-fleet and have him make a mini-dex. Then, get everyone together to FIND THE GODDAMN FLAWS BEFORE RELEASING IT. Don't be afraid to have 75% of it be, "see codex: blahblahblah", we'd have avoided this mess if they had.

Wow just wow...

* face palm *

Slackermagee wrote:What would your reaction have been GW had released Codex: Chaos Space Marines last year, Codex: Thousand Sons two months ago, and was set to release Codex: Alpha Legion in March?

I would have been hugely pissed because, if GW is expanding non-SM Codices into sub-Codices with release slots, Craftworld Biel-Tan should be at the top of the list, followed by Catachan Guard, LatD, and AdMech to expand the GEQ play options.

We don't need more MEQs than what we already have. And Chaos Legions one-by-one definitely aren't the answer to a problem that just doesn't exist right now.

That said, a JP Troop army is missing, and desirable, and BA fill that niche. OTOH, if GW released Night Lords in lieu of BA as the JP Troop army, then that would be OK, and I wouldn't care. However, as BA already have SCs and Baal Preds, and a history dating back to RT / 2E and so on, it's better to simply update the BA.
____

Slackermagee wrote:Do you think Space Wolves would have done anywhere near as good without a BRAND NEW model line?

As far as I can tell, SW got ONE brand new sprue, that SW players use to customize Tacs & AM & Devs, along with another brand new sprue of Termies. I don't call that a new model line.

BA's need one but I am afraid GW will Neuter them as they have in the past!

Maybe they finally go to Blood God.

G

Definitely DE before BA codex. I always found BA the dullest of the SM crowd, anyway.

Why couldn't a new DE codex have dark aspect warriors? The models would be very cool (think dark swooping hawks - awesome!), it would give plenty more units and variety to what's now a pretty bare cupboard, and would be great for conversions.

There's already SM and CSM - could DE and Eldar be run on separate lines?

Necrons
Dark Eldar
Inqusition/witch hunters
Black Templars
Eldar
Dark Angels
Blood Angels
yeah thats what i want to come out but it won't -.-.

I really don't understand why specific space marine chapters get their own codex. Why not just make one space marine codex and include the chapter specific info. Heck, they alread include the rules for some of the chapter masters in the codex anyway.

Seriously, they're not that different from each other. A special rule here, a slightly different unit there; it wouldn't amount to more than an additional 10-15 pages in the codex anyway. Yes you get the fluff but considering the fact that GW is not too great about releasing updated codexes it might be better to forego the fluff and let people play the game....if it's that important, release a fluff book later or something.

agnosto wrote:I really don't understand why specific space marine chapters get their own codex. Why not just make one space marine codex and include the chapter specific info. Heck, they alread include the rules for some of the chapter masters in the codex anyway.

QFT! An uber-SM codex, with appendices for each of the legions/better chapters would be best I imagine.

agnosto wrote:I really don't understand why specific space marine chapters get their own codex.

Marketing, and personalization.

5 flavors of SM (including CSM) gives GW a flavor of highly-profitable SM to push every year as a natural upgrade from the starter box models.

Personally, there are various looks SM can have spiky, robed, knightly, viking, and (presumably) vampirish, on top of the basic Marks of armor. So players can make their SM their own to strongly reflect their vision for SM.

If other lines (i.e IG) allowed this same level of player customizaiton and identification, I'm sure GW would do so. Probably, it'll take many years.

agnosto wrote:I really don't understand why specific space marine chapters get their own codex.

Because there's a market for them. They sell.

Arschbombe wrote:

agnosto wrote:I really don't understand why specific space marine chapters get their own codex.

Because there's a market for them. They sell.

I'm just saying, keep them but just consolidate everything into one codex for all the chapters. Since GW seems to have one writer, confined to a cage, writing all the codexes for every army, it would take less time to consolidate the like armies into one codex.

*yes I was being sarcastic, I know they have several writers*


Addendum:
It's just ridiculous when they nerf armies that would otherwise sell so that they can focus on minor variations of the same army. Space Wolfs, Blood Angels, Dark Angels.....a marine chapter is still a marine chapter.

"Hey we might sell more models if we update the rules for other armies!"
"Nah, just throw another space marine codex at them." "If we update the other armies, they might expect new models."

Hard to believe people are still discussing this moot point.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Hard to believe people are still discussing this moot point.

G

Meh, it's something to do.

Slacker mentality.