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I've taken Gorechild's and Balthydes' posts and edited them together. Also making a few changes/additions in bold. Whad'dya think? I've powered down some, as a few seemed OP to me. I'm thinking each Autarch could take 1-2 (maybe 3 if we get more ideas) stratergies so each one autarch can be customised to fit any force that could be concieved from the codex.

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Flank March- If an Autarch in your army has this ability then any one board edge not specified as belonging to the opposing player counts as belonging to the Eldar player, determined randomly.

Having 3 board edges (in most games) counting as your own would ensure the enemy would never be safe. No vehicle would be safe from FD meltas (12" on, deploy 2", base 0.9", 6" effictive melta range = 20.9", from both sides thats 41.8", only leaving 6.2" of safe zone for tanks. which isn't really safe as the melta is still in range (just not 2D6 range)) The same could be said if we go down the assault ramp serpent route. having only 1 random edge tones it down a little at least.

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Massed Reinforcements- Up to 3 units in reserve may be grouped together (Determined when those units are placed in reserve) and are able to enter play at the same time. You only need to roll 1 die per group of units, if the roll is sucessful every unit in the group enters play together, in the same fashion (ie, all must deep strike if one unit does)

My idea origionally, so i love it! Some slight additions.

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Logistical Espionage- The Eldar player may choose to make their opponent reroll any one reserve roll per turn, including rolls to determine what side of the board outflankers arrive from.

Not sure if you intended one per turn, one per game, or any rolls... so went with what i thought would be useful but not cripple reserve lists.

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Careful Planning: Eldar units start coming in from reserves on turn 1 on a 4+, then 3+ turn 2 and so on.

Changed the name, ambush is below. Took the name straight out of apocolypse (as it does the same thing... 90% sure anyway)

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Ambush!: The Eldar player seizes the initiative on a 3+.

Split this from the above part. Combos could be nasty... 50/50 if you win dice off to go first and steal int on a 3+ would mean you go first 83% of the time. You move on in the first turn on a 4+ (possible 3+) from your (possibly sides) board edge... Way to nasty.

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Vertical Assault: All Eldar grav-tanks and jetbikes can deepstrike. Vehicles with vectored thrusters only scatter d6 inches and count as moving at combat speed.

Perfect like that, the arriving like pods (first turn) can be achieved with taking careful planning.

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Strategical Brilliance: the Eldar player can choose to add or subtract 1 from their own reserve rolls, including determining which side outflankers arrive on

Took the outflank bit out... because...
Roll a 6 = choose the side
Roll a 5 = choose the side
Roll a 4 = (+1 to make 5) choose a side
Roll a 3 = (stick with one side or -1 to pick the other) choose a side
Roll a 2 = (stick with one side or +1 to pick the other) choose a side
Roll a 1 = Only roll where you dont choose a side

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Specialist training: The autarch may choose 1 Eldar unit to gain scout, infiltrate or hit and run.

Put this bit seperate, you may not want to take outflank specificaly especially with all the other buffs available, so more choice would be welcome.

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With a new codex would Eldrad be killed off? If so, could his divination be turned into an autarch thing? possibly with D3 (so no +1) units.
Even if hes 'alive' then it can still be handed over, with Eldrad's rules changing to add more psy buffs rather than a deployment buff.

Another interesting idea could be the inclusion on the ranger disruption table (although not as powerfull) possibly...

Ranger Disruption: If the Autarch takes this power, and there is at least one unit of rangers in your army, you may pick an enemy unit (or make it pick 3 and D3 it, or completely random) and roll a D6, 1-3 = that unit starts pinned, 4-6 that unit must be placed in reserves.

I like the general changes proposed to an autarch.

I still think it is the perfect way to unleash the old craftworld armies. The argument that we shouldn't force an autarch to unleash things is wrong. To me the current codex blandly allows for everything.

Note it allows but it doesn't provide any benefit.

As a simple starting point:

A named autarch providing Pathfinders upgrade at no cost. Pathfinders are removed from standard eldar lists (i.e. without the named autarch.) though rangers remain.
So any eldar craftworld can field rangers but the supreme alaitoc rangers are only available if you take that named alaitoc autarch. Rate this as say +50 to the cost without items and this doesn't "pay off" unless you field more than 10 pathfinders.

As another example. Anyone can field wraithguard as troops if they are 10-man units. If you have the named Iyaden autarch, you can field 5-man Troop units. Of course build that ability/advantage into the cost of the autarch.

This provides opportunity to build in the specialized old craftworld builds and perhaps more. The price is one imposed HQ choice.

On another topic, I think we need to address farseers, Eldrad, warlocks and pschic powers/defenses as a whole.
It is a central theme of the eldar and should remain a central defining element of eldar builds. It should be viewed as one of the most powerful psker races but needs to remain more subtle rather than a crude power club to be wielded on an opponent.

Rather than having named Autarchs for each craftworld, potentially flooding the codex with named charecters that never see the light of day, as we already have seers and autarchs, add to that the PL's, of which there could be 8, along with the Avatar and Eldrad (and maybe more named seers) along with Yriel (and his counter-parts in other craftworlds) and thats alot of charecters... possibly too much.

I propose simply adding an additional option to autarchs.

(blah blah stats, rules, wargear, etc)
In addition one Autarch per force may take any one of the following, for the points cost indicated...
Wraithguard commander: An army led by an Autarch with this ability may take wraithguard as troops choices, if there are 5 or more wraithguard in the unit, as oppoesed to 10.
etc.

No problem with that option. I am just conceding that named leaders are the in-vogue thing for GW to provide the flexibility. Your option just makes for less pages of fluff in the codex. Not a bad thing.

So... i'm assuming the Autarch entry will look like this...

Autarch
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 6 3 3 3 6 3 10 3+

SPECIAL RULES
Infantry/Jump Infantry, Fleet of Foot, Independent Character.

WARGEAR
Assault and defensive grenades.
Haywire grenades.
Shuriken pistol.
Forceshield: The Eldar favour sleeve-mounted field projectors over the clunky and restrictive armour used by other races. A forceshield confers a 4+ invulnerable save.

OPTIONS
Weapon optoins: May replace X with Y etc
(insert here, same as before? more variety? changes in points?)

Master Strategist: May take X (X=2?) stratergies from the following list.
Massed Reinforcements
Logistical Espionage
Careful Planning
Ambush!
Vertical Assault
Strategical Brilliance
Specialist training
Add more? too big a list? combine the ones which synergise well and make it a choice of 1? going to need points values too (and a base value to start with)
Also, would having 2 autarchs be OTT? should they be 0-1? or have some other limit on the stratergies?

In addition one Autarch per force may take any one of the following, for the points cost indicated...
Wraithguard commander
Outcast Support
Guardian Millitia
Wild rider cheiftan
Aspect strike force
Armoured assault
Will need to work on the names, just put them in their as an example, as well as effects and points... but names are more important

I was thinking more of a "1 ability per Autarch" sort of thing, but making the Autarch a real specialist in all things of that sort. For example:

Ambush!: + or - 1 to reserve and outflankers, seize on 4+, and reserves come in on 4+ on turn one. (they would also come in on 4+ on turn 2)

Logistical Espionage: The autarch may chose to neutralize 1 of the following rules from any 2 opponent units before deployment: Infiltrate or scout. This would also kill outflank. Also he may force the opponent to reroll a reserves roll per turn. Lastly he may move up to D3+1 units around in deployment after everything else, but before the game starts (like Eldrad).

Points-wise it may be costed around 70-100 pts depending on the power.

Thats one of the options, i think you may have made it a bit too good...
Ambush is almost auto win...

83% chance to go first with units outflanking on a 3+ on turn 1...
I was considering about 50 points per ability, the above is 3 abilities combined which would be 150 points, and for that amount of potential... i cant put a price on.
perhaps combing 2 abilities, but then whats the difference to having to choose 2 smaller abilities?

i think we should fish out some useful ones and discard a few come to think of it.

Ok. how about ambush, but it only works on normal reserves ( not outflank) and w/o the +- 1 modifier.

Well, keep it limited to one. Have essentially one offensive, one defensive and one logistic ability.

The defensive one is going to be a pain to come up with in an army that's based on being fragile, but you get my point.

the same effect could be achieved by taking Careful Planning + Ambush! from the list a few posts above.
However, this would be a good combo to group togther.
I'm off to bed soon, hopfully some more people will have a go at the stratergies so i have something to read tomorrow =)

But the idea is specialization, you get 1 thing to give your army.

Do you really think it's appropriate to have a non-special character who has that many special rules and options? That's about twice the size of any other unit.

Yes.

Wow that idea really took off
I think limiting it to 1 power per Autarch picked from a list of 6, 2 defensive, 2 offensive and 2 logistical gives you deacent variety without being too confusing. Being allowed 2 on top of having a farseer would be brutal. I'd go for having 3 cheaper (20-30 pts?) abilities and 3 more powerful options (50-75 pts?), that way the autarch could still be viable in lower point games.

I'd then give them access to: Spider jump pack, hawk wings and jetbike then maybe 4 or 5 different weapons.

They could also be fully optional, representing that the Autarch has not had the time to dedicate a full planned logistical action.

Another option is to keep the advantages general, but limited in effect.

Each purchase allows the Autarch to perform one action as described below. Multiple purchases of the same ability means the Autarch may make use of the same ability a number of times equal to the number of times he has purchased the ability.
Outflanking (5 pts) - At the start of the game, the Autarch may declare that one unit not normally able to outflank will arrive as if outflanking.
Forward positions (5 pts) - The Autarch may have one infantry unit, walker unit, or monstrous creature unit make a single scout move, even if not normally allowed to.
Prestidigitation (10 pts) - Prior to deploying infiltrators or moving scouts, but after both forces have been deployed, the Autarch may reveal his trickery and reposition one of the units under his command.
Fog of War (10 pts) - At any point prior to the first movement phase in turn 1, the Autarch may withdraw one unit from the board into reserves. This unit may be chosen even if it is required to be on the board by the combat scenario scenario.
Hastened Reserves (15 pts) - The Autarch may call upon one unit in reserves to arrive on the first turn. This unit will arrive on a normal reserve roll on 4+.

Honestly, there's any number of things you can do, legally allowing the Eldar player to "cheat" with deployment, etc

I think this is a solid idea we've struck with the Autarch. It makes the Autarch and Farseer closer to each other in terms of what to take while making likely Eldar lists more varied.

Personally I'd prefer to see the powers as one per Autarch (but able to take two Autarchs) and leave them focused on deployment and reserves.

I'd also like to suggest a power along the lines of "Preferred Aspect: A single type of aspect warrior may be designated as preferred. Units of this aspect may be taken as a troop choice so long as they hold the maximum number of models and [are/are not] led by an Exarch." Forbidding the Exarch will defang them slightly and make them more troopish, or we can ignore that and just price the power at an appropriately higher cost.

dayve110 wrote:...

Will need to work on the names, just put them in their as an example, as well as effects and points... but names are more important

I like the way you think.

I'm starting to thing the flank march is a bad idea (suprisingly it was the your toned down version that made me notice Mahtamori )
I thought being able to give a unit of dragons outflank for 5 points would be OP, then I thought of my idea of a whole army being able to do it and suddenly I thoroughly dislike the idea

Theres a difference between giving them a way to tweek how things are deployed and completely manipulating it to make things go our way.

I'll see if I can come up with a list of 6 that would be reasonable.

how about autarchs may choose to reroll any reserve rolls

Using dayve110's post as the framework

Autarch - 80 points

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
-6--6-3-3-3-6-3-10-4+

SPECIAL RULES
Infantry, Fleet of Foot, Independent Character.

WARGEAR
Plasma grenades.
Shuriken pistol
Close combat weapon
Forceshield

OPTIONS
The Autarch may replace Shuriken pistol and/or CCW with:
Fusion pistol - 8 points
Duel Avenger Catapults (as DA exarch) - 6 points
Executioner - 10 points
Dire Sword - 8 points
Biting Blade - 6 points

The Autarch may have one of the following:
Eldar Jetbike (changes unit type to jetbike) - 25 points
Swooping Hawk Wings (changes unit type to jump infantry) - 15 points
Warp Jump Generator (changes unit type to jump infantry) - 15 points

The Autarch may have any of the following:
Mandiblaster - 5 points
Shimmershield - 15 points
Haywire grenades. - 2 points
Defensive grenades - 5 points

STRATAGEMS
The Autarch may have one of the following:
Massed Reinforcements
Logistical Espionage
Vertical Assault
Something
Somthing else
Another one

Massed Reinforcements - Reserves can be put in groups of up to 3 units, all units in a group are rolled for with one dice, if it is successfull, all units in the group enter play together. All units in the group must enter play in the same way (deep striking, outflanking, normally) within 18" of one another.

Logistical Espionage - You can force your opponent to reroll D3 reserve rolls (successful or failed) each turn. When any unit is outflanking you can force them to re-roll which board edge they enter from on a D6 roll of 4+

Vertical Assault - All Skimmers and Jetbikes in your army may enter play by deep strike.

Can't think of how to word some more but ideas I like the sound of are: deep strike deterent (can force opponent to reroll scatter? scatter 3D6?), +1 to reserve roll's (could include entering from reserve on T1?) Something terrain based (can destroy a piece of scenery after deployment? nominate any piece of terrain to count as dangerous?).

I still stand by my "this is a bad idea" for Autarchs, but to be helpful:

Warp Jump Generator can't be the same points as Swooping Hawk Wings since it is a superior piece of wargear. It does the same things and more.

It also kills your 150 point HQ with 1/6 chance every turn if he's not in a Warp Spiders unit...unless you never use the assault-phase jump, in which case it works exactly like the Swooping Hawk wings.

Araenion wrote:It also kills your 150 point HQ with 1/6 chance every turn if he's not in a Warp Spiders unit...unless you never use the assault-phase jump, in which case it works exactly like the Swooping Hawk wings.

True. But, it still has to cost more.

If you were ever considering Hawks Wings, why wouldn't you rather go with the Warp Pack? If it costs the same, worst case scenario you never do the JSJ and it makes no difference. But, most of the time, it's a 100% free upgrade.

Meh, I agree, I was just nitpicking.

Some of the swooping hawk improvements we suggested also gave them turboboost or another way to let them move faster than normal jump infantry, so the warp pack might not be better.

I would like the idea of an EMP for Eldar, not sure how it would work, all models fire at -1 BS within 24", one shot. Seems and Eldar thing to me.

How about this for the Autarch? Pay special attention to the stratagems.

Autarch – 80pts

WS BS S t W I A Ld Sv
-6---6--3-3-3-6-3-10-3+

Wargear
Plasma Grenades
Shuriken pistol
Close Combat Weapon
Forceshield (4++)

Special Rules
Fleet of Foot, Independent Character,

Options

The Autarch may replace his shuriken fistol and/ or CCW with:
Fusion pistol - 10pts
Avenger shuriken catapult - 3 pts
Scorpion chainsword - 3 pts
Power Weapon - 12 pts
Reaper cannon - 10 pts

The Autarch may take one of the following:
Eldar Jetbike - 30pts
Swooping hawk wings - 15pts
Warp jump generator - 20pts

The Autarch may have one of the following:
Mandiblasters - 10pts
Banshee mask - 5pts

Stratagems
The Autarch may take one of the following stratagems:

Ambush!: + or - 1 to reserve, seize on 4+, and reserves come in on 5+ on turn one. (they would also come in on 4+ on turn 2) – 100pts

Logistical Espionage: You may elect to give you opponent a -1 modifier to any reserves roll. In addition the autarch may chose to neutralize 1 of the following rules from any 2 opponent units before deployment: Infiltrate or scout. This would also disarm outflank. – 80pts

Vertical assault: All skimmer and jetbike units must deepstrike. However they will only scatter d6" and they only count as having moved combat speed the turn they arrive. – 70pts

Flanker: The autarch may give up to three units either the infiltrate or scouts rule. –60pts

Drill Sergent: All Guardian and guardian support weapons count as twin linked. – 50pts

A Wisp of Smoke: All eldar fleet rolls roll 2d6 and choose the highest. – 40pts

Hand-picked Veterans: Up to two units in the Autarche's army may gain one of the following special rules: Furious Charge, Hit and Run, Counter-charge, Relentless, Fearless – 20pts

balthydes wrote:Some of the swooping hawk improvements we suggested also gave them turboboost or another way to let them move faster than normal jump infantry, so the warp pack might not be better.

That was my reasoning, I just put a random value on it as we didn't decide on how Hawks were meant to work in the first place It was basically a wild guess

dayve110 wrote:
In addition one Autarch per force may take any one of the following, for the points cost indicated...
Wraithguard commander
Outcast Support
Guardian Millitia
Wild rider cheiftan
Aspect strike force
Armoured assault
Will need to work on the names, just put them in their as an example, as well as effects and points... but names are more important

This I absolutely love. In the book as it is now I don't really see any reason to take an Autarch, but this striked my heart.
So how about... (note that I changed the names a bit)
Specialised Commander Options
Only one may be chosen per force, regardless of the amount of Autarches:

Wraith Warder - ? pts
Wraithguards counts as troops if they are bought as a ten-man squad. Up to three Wraithlords may be bought for a single FOC chart.
All other troop choices are 0-1.

Outcast Supporter - ? pts
All rangers may be upgraded to pathfinders at no additional cost.
All other troop choices are 0-1.

Guardian Commander - ? pts
All Guardian Defenders (not jetbikes) have BS4, and all Guardian Storms have WS4.
All other troop choices are 0-1.

Wild Rider Chieftain - ? pts
The Autarch must ride a jetbike. All Guardian Jetbikes have BS4 and Furious Charge. Not quite sure though.
All other troop choices are 0-1.

Aspect Force Leader - ? pts
All CC Aspect Warriors have +1 WS (Banshees, Scorpions, Spears) and all ranged Aspect warriors have +1 BS (Avengers, Reapers, Hawks, Spiders).
All troop choices but Dire Avengers are 0-1.

Tank Tactician - ? pts
All tanks have +1 BS ((Or just BS4). In addition, falcons may be used as dedicated transports.

The aspect Force leader was the one I was most unsure about. Do you have any better idea for it? What else do you think about it?

And on a different note (Perhaps a bit early, but still), do you think we should add the Shadow Spectres to it?

I completely agree that there isnt really a reason to take an Autarch now, but I think linking them to craftworld style rules would make them a must have (which personally I'd like to avoid).
Its good to make all options viable and competitive to use, but making it so that you really have to have one will remove all the diversity that we're trying to introduce.
On top of all the Stratagem suggestions it will make the unit rathe complicated with all these options.

Gorechild wrote:I completely agree that there isnt really a reason to take an Autarch now, but I think linking them to craftworld style rules would make them a must have (which personally I'd like to avoid).
Its good to make all options viable and competitive to use, but making it so that you really have to have one will...

Isn't that kind of how the Farseers are now?

On top of all the Stratagem suggestions it will make the unit rather complicated with all these options.

That is true, of course. Though I do like complicated options, but there is a limit.