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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Old codex (with enough points) Night Lords used to be able to do effectively 8 units of Raptors (Or 7 Bike units)...Those were the days
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

Raptors also had 3D6 Hit and Run and could always break away.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Only half of them if you did the 8 units though
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

Wait you could give wings to normal 3.5 CSM?
   
Made in au
Killer Klaivex






Forever alone

No, only characters, Possessed, and Chosen.

People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

So 3 winged Possessed Squads, 1 winged Chosen Squad, 4 Raptors, Winged Lord and 2 basic CSM Squads, and there is your Night Lord army?
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend






The sink.

Your possessed don't get wings/jump packs. They can get fleet, if you roll a 3 on their table.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

I was talking about 3.5 Ed possessed Noisy. I know that current Possessed don't get them, despite the two winged packs in the box. I don't run Possessed, I just like their bits and use them to make commanders look more personalized.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

avantgarde wrote:I miss Spiky Bits.

In fact I miss: Dread Axes, Dark Swords, Daemon bomb, cultists, Plague Swords, S10 Daemon Princes, Berserker Glaives, Rubric Terminators, Thrall Wizards, Daemonic Stature, Combat Drugs, Mutated Hull, Parasitic Possession, Coruscating Warp Flame, Furious Charging Raptors, Hit and Run Raptors, Daemonic Armor, Manreapers, Axes of Khorne, Tank Hunting Autocannons, infiltrating armies, Indirect Defilers, T5 Oblits, 5 attack 2 re-roll PFs, 3+ Bloodletters and the list goes on.

Yeah, everything the last codex offered.
By the way, I played a pure EC army with blastmaster havocs.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Bane Thrall





New England

JohnHwangDD wrote:As I stated very early on, the current book has far greater freedom to mix marks, superior Troops selection, and non-restricted support (e.g. Raptors & Obliterators). That allows for more flexible builds overall.


I'm not particularly sold that this makes things much more "flexable" in a way that matters. I never fielded more than one of the "support" units anyway, if at all. Shoehorning all the cult troops into Troops actually reduces my options a lil bit, as before I could push the non-matching marks into elites. Mixing marks was never much my thing, particualrly as I tend to regard them as gateway drugs for the cult lists, and the Vet Skills, particularly Tank Hunter and Furious Charge, beefed with demonic gifts on your AC's more than made up not taking marks.

This whole point, of course could be argued back and forth... the more important one is regardless of what you think of the flexability of the main list, adding the Cult options would have been a trivial effort, that wouldn't have detracted from the main list. The fact that they've gone and put out 1KS, EC's and LATD at least as thowaway download formations for apoc, just highlights this. It's simply about pushing the cult army players to their bigger game, and for that I have no problem saying that this verson of the codex, effctivly, well sucks..

PS, I want my Warp Amps..

<Rarity> I am not whining, I am complaining! Do you want to hear whining?

Thiiis is whiiiiining! Oooo, this mini is too expeennsive! I'm' going brrookee! Can't you make it cheaper? Oh, it's resin and not metal anymore! Why didn't you take it off the sprue first? That's gonna leave a pour spout, and the FLGS is so far away, WHY DO I HAVE TO SUPPORT IIIIIIIT?! </Rairty>  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





BrotherStynier wrote:So 3 winged Possessed Squads, 1 winged Chosen Squad, 4 Raptors, Winged Lord and 2 basic CSM Squads, and there is your Night Lord army?


4 Raptors, 3 winged Chosen, and 1 Flying Possessed actually. I'm going by memory that Night Lords lose an Elite slot too...If not, they can go to effectively 9 Raptors and 8 Bike units.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

No they loose only a HS option.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





whidbey

the 888 point 8 man chosen of khorne bike squad!!!!!! any codex after that was going to be a let down.
   
Made in gb
Hellacious Havoc





Wales

Ok, most of what I have to say has been said numerous times already, but I'll add my list of gripes anyway, partly to try to expand on some things, partly just to vent.
Here's my little list of what is wrong with the newest Chaos codex, in no particular order.

1. Generic Daemons. This was absolutely a kick in the teeth to chaos players. I fully believe this was done just to sell a new army. As I've noted elsewhere, I do not like Counts As. If a unit is distinct in any way it should have its own unique rules. I see Counts As as a last resort. I would prefer 4 different statlines that each had the power level of Guardsmen, so long as each daemon type had different rules. But of course they couldn't do that, it wouldn't force us to buy a whole new army to use daemons properly.

2. Removal of Wargear. True, this was done to every army. Doesn't mean it wasn't a fething stupid move. Besides, the wargear options were such an important part of the chaos list, pages of options counting the Mark-specific things, available to many units. The loss of them really hurt. And unit options they were replaced with are mostly pretty limited even by modern codex standards.

3. Mixed mark armies. True, I don't have to play it that way, but I still object, because this is related to point X, below.

4. Loss of the Legions and LatD. Why do the loyalists get a plethora of seperate codexes, while Chaos dont even get variant lists?

5. The fluff and art. I can't put my finger on what, exactly, is wrong, but it just doesn't capture my imagination. The old codex felt darker, had more atmosphere. These weren't just rogue space marines with spikes - these were ancient, daemon-worshipping sadists, set on destroying the entire galaxy. I also think the excuse that any Space Marine who breaks programming is automatically on the path to Chaos makes Marines more 2 dimensional than ever.

6. The number of changes that invalidated old units. People on this thread have mentioned many, more than I even realised. A new codex should be a time of celebration, of exciting new possibilities. It should not force many players to completely start from scratch. Or maybe, from GW's perspective, it should. Ker-ching, cashy money.

X. The power level. It's too high. It's ironic to me that, in the name of making the codex less cheesy, they surrendered many fluffy but (as others have noted) 'useless' options, done away with fluffy restrictions and boosted the power levels of things like Oblits, 1K sons, Bikers, Noise Marines etc. I'd be embarrassed to field some of the things in that codex (lash, anyone?) in a standard competitive pick-up game. Maybe in an ultra competitive tourney, maybe in an apoc game, maybe against a mate where we both agree to have very powerful units in the mix. Not against some random guy in a store. So I don't want to be told that I'm annoyed because my army's now less powerful, OK?

In fact its interesting to me that the more GW claim to want the game to go in a more casual friendly direction (thus justifying half-baked rules), the more they streamline all the options and variant lists, presumably to placate the tourney players (also justifying half baked rules, interestingly enough). The Government should hire these guys as spin-doctors.

So, yeah, not happy with it at all. I could go on til my fingers bleed tbh, but I'll spare the server the full extent of my bile.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/12 13:25:20


 
   
 
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