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Made in gb
Xeno-Hating Inquisitorial Excruciator




Manchester

I dunno if this is in the right place Move if it is wrong.

But basically the CSM codex loads of people hate it and really think its terrible!
and i own the codex and i dunno why people hate it so much?
so love to hear why and what you think should be updates in the next one


ABH

I'm always looking for new players for system-less one on one RPG's via MSN and Email PM me if your interested!
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Back in the dark





Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.

The only thing I hate are the unit Icons, which make absolutely no sense whats so ever.

'Oh No, bob got shot, we don't count as Khorne anymore!'

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/06 17:23:23


"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.

Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
 
   
Made in gb
Xeno-Hating Inquisitorial Excruciator




Manchester

Haha i know what you mean



ABH

I'm always looking for new players for system-less one on one RPG's via MSN and Email PM me if your interested!
 
   
Made in gb
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Bristol uk

Its because they have taken them and toned them down cult lists no longer exist and it just caters for people who like to deploy a stupidly huge Khorne Berserker squad for half the points they'd pay in 4th edition.

I for one saw it as a bloody huge let down being a frequent chaos player I base my Emperors Children round the forth edition lists which I and my friends are still playing.

They dont call me Garybrandy for nothing!


how is it off topic? we hardly know what the topic even is!

 
   
Made in us
Manhunter




Eastern PA

i didnt like the book much when it was first released, but it grew on me.

things that still irritate me:

Cult troops without Cult leaders. as a deathguard player i would like lords and demon princes with FNP, even at a steep cost, same for terminators.

slaanesh gets the best psychic power AGAIN, even though warptime is a very close second.

the loss of demons. generic demons are demons, but i would have just liked something like an upgrade like +1 T for nurgle, +1 str for khorne, maybe a shooting attack for the tzeentch ones and +1 attack for slaanesh.

the over simplication. i guess this is all the new books, but the basic dumbing down of the HQ choices especially. i mean a DP takes agaes to gain its status, you dont think it wouldnt get some cool gear along the way? maybe just a two handed weapon that gives +2 str or something?

im trusting the legion books offer more, as a dedicated deathguard player i look forward to it.

There ain't nearly enough Salvage in this thread!

DS:80+S++G+M++++B++I++pwmhd05+D++A++/fWD88R+++T(S)DM+

Catyrpelius wrote:War Machine is broken to the point of being balanced.

sourclams wrote:I play Warmahordes. It's simply a better game.


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Canada

its that they needed to be tonned down from 4th edtion because they were so ridiculously powerful or at least could be the difference is that instead of tonning them down they are instead completely torn apart.

they needed certain things to be reworked but cult lists and the elimination of having decent daemons in the army put a big hurt on the chaos game. These are supposed to be more powerful then space marines, generrally theyve been alive longer and they at minimum have bartered their lives withteh dark gods but there isnt a whole lot available that actually shows that effect.
   
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator







studderingdave wrote:i didnt like the book much when it was first released, but it grew on me.

things that still irritate me:

Cult troops without Cult leaders. as a deathguard player i would like lords and demon princes with FNP, even at a steep cost, same for terminators.

slaanesh gets the best psychic power AGAIN, even though warptime is a very close second.

the loss of demons. generic demons are demons, but i would have just liked something like an upgrade like +1 T for nurgle, +1 str for khorne, maybe a shooting attack for the tzeentch ones and +1 attack for slaanesh.

the over simplication. i guess this is all the new books, but the basic dumbing down of the HQ choices especially. i mean a DP takes agaes to gain its status, you dont think it wouldnt get some cool gear along the way? maybe just a two handed weapon that gives +2 str or something?

im trusting the legion books offer more, as a dedicated deathguard player i look forward to it.



This.


I'm overall happy with the Chaos codex, but playing Death Guard myself I have to agree with everything you listed.

That, and Typhus, leader of the Death Guard has T4(5)! This was slightly annoying until I picked up the SM codex and Cassius is T6. That had me pretty genuinely pissed.


You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

They took a good codex that was the most customizable in the game and replaced it with toilet paper, USED toilet paper.


For example, they removed god specific demons, fast attack demons, greater demons, and replaced with a generic demon and generic greater demon. Er, yea.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Rasyat






I miss Spiky Bits.

In fact I miss: Dread Axes, Dark Swords, Daemon bomb, cultists, Plague Swords, S10 Daemon Princes, Berserker Glaives, Rubric Terminators, Thrall Wizards, Daemonic Stature, Combat Drugs, Mutated Hull, Parasitic Possession, Coruscating Warp Flame, Furious Charging Raptors, Hit and Run Raptors, Daemonic Armor, Manreapers, Axes of Khorne, Tank Hunting Autocannons, infiltrating armies, Indirect Defilers, T5 Oblits, 5 attack 2 re-roll PFs, 3+ Bloodletters and the list goes on.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/07/06 18:58:31


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Meh, it's fine. At least least the focus is back on Chaos SPACE MARINES instead of Daemons and Powers.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

JohnHwangDD wrote:Meh, it's fine. At least least the focus is back on renegade SPACE MARINES instead of Daemons and Powers.


Corrected your typo

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in ca
God-like Imperator Titan Commander





Halifax

I actually really like the most recent Codex: Chaos Space Marines. It got me back into the hobby around the end of 4th edition, since it was such an improvement (my opinion, your mileage may vary) on the previous one.

I also really like the Icons, and how they differentiate Power-aligned Chaos Space Marines from the Cults (also, how they beefed up the Cults and got rid of that awful Chain-axe rule). It finally allowed me to field my firepower-heavy Khorne army without having to get into the same old argument about how Khorne being identified with close combat was 2nd edition revisionism.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

All Chaos Space Marines are renegades...

   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard




New York

From a competitive standpoint, the army can't compete without taking Obliterators, and that's just makes for boring composition. They're the only source of points-efficient ranged firepower in the entire codex.

Without them your anti-tank is limited to short-range infantry, over-priced melta bikes, one-shot combi-melta terminators, and unreliable Chaos Dreadnoughts. Against IG, Tau, or Eldar you're completely boned.

The book is just poorly designed from start to finish. It's like the 4th edition Space Marine codex with all of the customization removed.
   
Made in ca
Graham McNeil





North of you!

All Chaos Space Marines are renegades...


But not all renegades are Chaos Space Marines

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/06 19:19:18


DC:90-S+++G+MB-I+Pw40k02#++D+A+++/aWD-R++T(T)DM+

I refute you're reality and substitute my own!

"He who laughs last, thinks the fastest"  
   
Made in ca
God-like Imperator Titan Commander





Halifax

Ciaphas-Cain:

The codex explains that turning away from the light of the Emperor is simply the first step on the road to damnation. Renegades are more than just Imperial dissenters, they're Marines that have renounced their vows, and struck out for their own goals and purposes. Such selfishness is the seed of Chaos.

Danny Internets:

I disagree with your assessment that Obliterators are somehow necessary for a competitive list. If anything, they're an occasional flavour-unit. The Heavy Support section of Codex: Chaos Space Marines is wide open in terms of the number of live options that it offers players.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/06 19:26:41


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Buzzard's Knob

Frazzled wrote:They took a good codex that was the most customizable in the game and replaced it with toilet paper, USED toilet paper.


For example, they removed god specific demons, fast attack demons, greater demons, and replaced with a generic demon and generic greater demon. Er, yea.


Now it's my turn to steal a line from your post for my sig.

What they need is a CODEX CHAOS. A massive tome that includes Traitor Legions, post-Horus Heresy Renegade Space Marines, Daemons of all sorts, Cultists, Mutants, Traitor Guard and Dark Adeptus. Even if it were a leather bound phone-book of a Codex with a price tag that would make my debit card weep tears of blood, I would still snap one up quicker than anybody believed me capable of moving. Rant off, for now...

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

What pissed me off the most, was I played Chaos since I got into the game. I played an Iron Warriors successor chapter of my own making. I could do some damage with the extras you got using Iron Warriors. But then the new dex came out, and Iron warriors are the same as everyone else apparently. It pissed me off lol
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith





If not compared to codices before it, it's great! I love the upgrades and especially love the Plague Marines now

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Back in the dark





Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.

Nurglitch wrote:
The codex explains that turning away from the light of the Emperor is simply the first step on the road to damnation. Renegades are more than just Imperial dissenters, they're Marines that have renounced their vows, and struck out for their own goals and purposes. Such selfishness is the seed of Chaos.


Aye other than the fact the book is still supposed to represent the Black Legion, who are not apparently not so keen to remember they have been undivided Chaos for ten thousand years and if the Icon bearer dies, they might as well be Space Marines, but without They shall have no fear.




On a side note I feel I was too quick to post earlier, Icon's are my bugbear (I love the ability for any unit to be marked now, but I don't understand why it required this Icon rule and not just a unit upgrade,) but also there are holes all over the codex. It says its a Renegades list, but then also expects us all to use it for Cult armies for the forseeable future. It is a mess and I heavily agree with the Daemon comments as well.

I also take from most posts I see around forums, the tournie list is set in stone, don't bother coming if you don't have Oblits, a lash Prince, probably two and so on, which is just awful really. I have about a 50-50 rating with my force atm against my foes and I don't use Lash at all as I don't have any Slaanesh PSykers in my army yet.
If I field them and see a major swing in my favour, I'll be disgusted tbh as I really hate cheap units.

"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.

Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
 
   
Made in us
Manhunter




Eastern PA

i think we got shafted a bit as the last codex to be put out before the whole "pick a commander. get this armywide upgrade" like the SM, ork and guard codex.

in a new codex i would like to see night lord commanders make raptor's tropps, iron warriors commanders grant special or more heavies, and deathguard commanders offering more DG squads to replace fast attaxk slots.

thats just an idea, but this alone buts the current codex on a backfoot as far as flexibility.

There ain't nearly enough Salvage in this thread!

DS:80+S++G+M++++B++I++pwmhd05+D++A++/fWD88R+++T(S)DM+

Catyrpelius wrote:War Machine is broken to the point of being balanced.

sourclams wrote:I play Warmahordes. It's simply a better game.


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Boston, MA

It just has less overall flavor than the previous one, and splitting the codex into Chaos Daemons (who can't ally!) and Chaos Marines was stupid, but probably got the money wheels-a-turning for GW.

I prefer fighting it though, since there's no first turn assaults from infiltrating super kitted out flying daemon princes and lords who can kill an entire squad per round of melee. Just Plague Marines who refuse to die.

Check out my Youtube channel!
 
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

I like the codex a lot. granted I didn't have an army before the current codex and I didn't get screwed like some people, but all the games I've played with my army have been real fun.

I don't have any obliterators, I usually run 2 vindicators and a defiler, or 3 vindicators and both combos seem to work real well for me.

   
Made in ca
Morphing Obliterator






No Legions make playing Night Lords (or any other legion) nothing but a weakened version of Black Legion. If I go with the fluff and take raptors (which are decent at best), and don't take the undivided Obliterators, Im severely handicapping myself.

If you take anything other than a Prince, Sorceror, Suicide Termies, CSM, Plagues, Zerkers, Oblits and Defilers, youre handicapping yourself, because the other units really are THAT much worse. All of these units combined are well rounded and do what they do much better than the alternatives. Even Elite Melee Possessed Units are outdone by cheaper scoring Berzerkers.

The codex is so simple. There are no choices or customization when making your list if you want to win. Every competitive list is the same. And if youre playing for fun with other units, youre going to have a really hard time against anyone with a decent list, as youre substituting key units with an intended role for subpar ones.

Chaos Space Marines
Tyranids
Vampire Counts 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Non-optimal doesn't mean unplayable.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





People hate it because it eliminated about 8 flavors of Chaos Marines. It'd be like GW eliminating Space Wolves, Black Templars, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. While that is maybe what -should- happen, it still hurts to have your army eliminated, especially if you have units that are no longer fieldable.

In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer 
   
Made in us
The Hammer of Witches





A new day, a new time zone.

What was no longer fieldable? Basilisks and cultists?

"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..."
Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

If CSM still had 5-man Lascannons & Elite Oblits, with the option for extra looted Pie, there wouldn't nearly be the same amount of whining.

No, people hate it because it nerfed a couple broken flavors of Chaos Marines.

If flavored Daemons were nerfed down to a GEQ base statline, (e.g. S3 T4 A1 Plaguebearers & S3 T3 I5 Daemonettes), the complaining would be even greater ...

   
Made in ca
Morphing Obliterator






JohnHwangDD wrote:Non-optimal doesn't mean unplayable.


Say whatever you like, people are upset because if they dont use this cookie cutter list, theyre going to get spanked. You may be happy with a rather bland, subpar army, but Im simply stating a reason why people are upset.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
JohnHwangDD wrote:If CSM still had 5-man Lascannons & Elite Oblits, with the option for extra looted Pie, there wouldn't nearly be the same amount of whining.

No, people hate it because it nerfed a couple broken flavors of Chaos Marines.

If flavored Daemons were nerfed down to a GEQ base statline, (e.g. S3 T4 A1 Plaguebearers & S3 T3 I5 Daemonettes), the complaining would be even greater ...


That is not why at all. Ive never heard people complain about Obliterators at all - infact, only the opposite that theyre TOO good and everything else it horrible.

Chaos is a fantastic army if you want to win. Its just not FUN.

Stop making silly assumptions.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/07/06 21:20:48


Chaos Space Marines
Tyranids
Vampire Counts 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Back in the dark





Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.

Aye tbh those of us who have been around long enough to have owned Slaves to Darkness and Lost and the Damned first time around, (or paid silly money on ebay since) pretty much weep at the current CSM codex.

"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.

Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
 
   
 
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