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Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Minnesota

My own copypasta rant, largely in response to the sentiment that the old codex was unnecessarily restrictive, and that the new codex allows for greater freedom:

Orkeosaurus wrote:As a former Alpha Legion player, I'll tell you I don't give a rat's ass about the restrictions that were taken away.

You know what's restricting? Playing a cult army now, that's restricting. Being unable to give your chosen anything besides "infiltrate", and your daemon princes anything besides "wings", that's restricting. Trying to play a Khorne army with a daemon prince that's worse in close combat than the prince of any other god is restricting. Playing a Tzeentch army and ending up with a pathetic sorcerer and overpriced troops is restricting. Not being able to use a basilisk is a restriction, not having veteran skills available for anyone is restricting, having no human servants for chaos - in the codex or outside of it - that is restricting. Not being able to take a Dark Apostle is restricting. Not being able to take more than two permutations of daemon is restricting. When attempting to use two thirds of the options means that your points are wasted, that is restricting.

The claim that the new chaos codex is less restricting is ridiculous. So you couldn't take plague marines if your general had the mark of Tzeentch; so what? At least you could represent nine legions. You could have the Word Bearer's leaders, the Iron Warrior's artillery, the Alpha Legion and Night Lord's skills, the Cults' daemons and gifts. Now you can represent one. The Black Legion. Everything else takes a back seat.

I hate this codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/08 06:59:20


The Emperor doesn't seem to do much for you but you sure are expected to be mutilated, suffer, and die to make him happy. And is he dead or what? If he's entombed that would mean he's dead as a doornail, right? So, how can he be happy about anything you do, or even give orders to anyone? Are you worshipping the dead now? Is that something you'd really want to do? Because it sounds freaking creepy to me.
 
   
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chaplaingrabthar wrote:there was no good reason to genericise them.


If you worked for GW, you'd realise that there was a very good reason. Their mistake was assuming that we'd just go along with it...

H.B.M.C. wrote:Orkeosaurus is awesome! He's also 100% bang on the money

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/07/08 07:22:54


   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Minnesota

Yay!

The Emperor doesn't seem to do much for you but you sure are expected to be mutilated, suffer, and die to make him happy. And is he dead or what? If he's entombed that would mean he's dead as a doornail, right? So, how can he be happy about anything you do, or even give orders to anyone? Are you worshipping the dead now? Is that something you'd really want to do? Because it sounds freaking creepy to me.
 
   
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Angry Chaos Agitator




Somewhere on Terra

Danny Internets wrote:
I disagree with your assessment that Obliterators are somehow necessary for a competitive list. If anything, they're an occasional flavour-unit. The Heavy Support section of Codex: Chaos Space Marines is wide open in terms of the number of live options that it offers players.


If you aren't taking Obliterators you are handicapping yourself. They provide desperately needed flexibility by combining long-range AT with extremely efficient anti-infantry dakka. You cannot run a Chaos list without long-range support because the fast units (bikes and raptors) are restricted to short-range AT and are both crap for the points (and they don't fit in the mech metagame).

Terminators are the other option, but they are hampered by the randomness of reserves + deep strike AND only get one shot. Not bad for a suicide unit, but paying 120 points for 3 meltagun shots (per game) isn't anything to call home about.


i totally agree with danny...not taking at least one obliterator in a csm army is like playing orks, staying in the deployment zone and shoot at the enemy.



...nothing else matters...


 
   
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Dublin (on holidays in portugal atm)

Necros wrote:I like the codex a lot. granted I didn't have an army before the current codex and I didn't get screwed like some people, but all the games I've played with my army have been real fun.

I don't have any obliterators, I usually run 2 vindicators and a defiler, or 3 vindicators and both combos seem to work real well for me.


ye man same,i only started chaos marines(ironwarriors)when the new codex came out,i run 2 vindicators and 1 defiler or 3 vindicators and it works extremely well for me!

Armys:
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Warriors of Chaos:2000pts

IRON WITHIN IRON WITHOUT!!

Win lose record:40k:
7-3-4 
   
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The Great State of Texas

ph34r wrote:The new codex gave me the "freedom" to stop playing chaos space marines.

Ditto.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think this codex has opened up to a more 'build your own renegades' approach.


Except it hasn't.

The standard list, ignoring the 8 Legions, allowed for what we have already today, plus it still had Daemons, plus it still have universally consistent Marked troops, more options and so on. The new 'Codex' didn't add anything, it just took things away. 'Counts As' isn't an excuse for the fact that there is no such thing as a Death Guard, World Eater, Alpha Legion, etc. army. What there is is a singular list where once there was many, a single list with far fewer options than the previous list, and a bunch of armies pretending to be something they're not.
There are no Cult Commanders or Cult Possessed or Cult Terminators, Havocs, Bikers and so on - just a single unit that is supposed to represent all the Cult troops (so all Plague Marines wear Power Armour? There are no Noise Marine Bikers? No World Eater Possessed?), there are no more Daemonic Gifts (something I find abhorrent, given that they have been a stable of Chaos since the beginning - Realms of Chaos had a D1000 table for these things), and there are Generic Daemons (something that is just insulting to Chaos players).

The old Codex had a list that was amazingly adaptive and flexible, capable of representing just about any force you could think of. The new Codex has the same list with the options, flexibility and flavour removed. It wasn't an improvement, it was a giant leap backwards.


Quoted for truthiness. The section bolded eplains it best for me.
The old codex had problems and power builds (like the new one doesn't?). Those could have been easily corrected though. If GW had wanted to go into a new direction and break chaos into 2-3 books they could have done that as well. But the only thing they did do was turn Codex Chaos into Codex Vanilla Angry Marines with lash whip.

OT but it is evenmmore horrendous with the LATD list. They could have taken that list and added a 3 line FAQ. But they didn't. They didn't try. They didn't care one whit about the LATD players, for something that would have taken ten minutes of time to adjust. Its sad and was the big break for me with 40K. I still play (some). I still paint. But I won't buy new armies. IG (finally) nope not gonna do it. SPace Wolves-my first army back in 2nd Edition? Forget it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/08 13:10:32


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Alright, I'm sorry you guys can't use your cultists, and invalidating entire Slaaneshi armies was a jerk-move. I really am, but I'm new and I'm making due with this.

By freedom, I mean there are no restrictions. None. Nothing says you can't take this if he happens to love Khorne. I'm a fluff Nazi too, so shouldn't this appall me? Maybe, but GW threw down the SPESS MARHEENS codex, their posterboys, and said "COUNTS-AS IS GOOD." Now, no, the Legions aren't represented well in this codex which is mostly what the older players have against it. We lost options, but we gained more options because the codex has 0 restrictions. Yes, newbs will abuse that, but cunning players will use it too. I don't have to make a confangled story to show those "Noise Marines" are actually followers of Nurgle. Now I can, but I don't have to. My Noise Marines do worship Slaanesh to escape Nurgle's taint, and my Renegade Librarian is too depressed about killing his Captain in the first place to care. They are there, and he uses them.

I have a story, I can do whatever I want. Those Noise Marines shouldn't be weakened because they are with Nurgle followers. They represent a section of my Renegades that DOESN'T want to get turned into Plague Marines. This codex makes it easy to tell a certain story. Renegades who just turned Chaos. They don't have the numbers to be picky about who joins them. Ancient Enemies is not gone, it is just suspended because these Renegades are noobs. Alliances must be forged to survive. The Legions don't have this problem, they have huge armies and vast numbers of worlds under their control, but Renegades may have as much as a single fortress, or a single Battlebarge to base their operations.

Do they need Legion codicies? Hell yeah. Do they need all of them? No, just the ones that haven't dissolved into Renegades at this point anyway. Can they get one big book of Legions, and use that to patch together an ally system with the Renegades and Daemon? Yes, and we would all use it, but they probably won't. We'll just have to wait and see. In the mean time, I'm loving the time I'm having with my homebrew's story, gameplay and modeling.

   
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RxGhost wrote:Behind every shout of "now this is bland and generic and fluffless" I still hear a voice shouting, so high pitched that the untrained cannot hear, and that voice is shouting "these aren't as strong as they were".

Demons are still in the book right? Right. Why doesn't anyone use them? Because people think they're weak. They don't have the special rules that they used to/the other army gets/insert other complaint.


That may be what they're vocal about. But what I read between the lines (if I were you, I'd talk to a professional about the voices you're hearing) is bigger picture stuff. Because if someone's complaining about the weakness of the current codex -- or claiming the last version was leaps and bounds more powerful than the current one -- they're kind of an idiot. It's a strong codex in terms of power level.

It isn't a terribly diverse one, though. The Legion lists likely had to go based on where the game is headed. But it's reasonable to say the designers could have structured the CSM codex to allow more varied styles of play, especially when they're doing just that in other codices. To me, it's a strange state of affairs when IG can field more drastically different armies than Chaos. And they most certainly can.

You know, some players might have just liked the way a particular Legion played, and now that it plays mostly similar to every other Legion, they're not as happy with it and have a bad taste in their mouth. That doesn't make them a complete powergaming jacka$$.

The rumored-but-likely-far-away Legions book might solve this issue. Although then you have to question the strategy in not releasing it within a reasonable time frame after the CSM book.

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Um, you could do that with THE OLD CHAOS CODEX as well, but still had more options available to do it.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
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Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:I remember when the current chaos codex came out I looked at it and almost wept. I took my list, found what I could that was still playable, then saw my biggest issue. I HAD NO DARK APOSTLE! I no longer took the most fluff-tastic unit in my list because the writers are a bunch of idiots. So, I decided to have a laugh with a friend, who played Space Marines but was an avid supporter of my fluffy Word Bearers.

We went to our FLGS and asked a red shirt there what I was supposed to take now that I had no Dark Apostle. (Granted I knew it was a sorcerer for me since I hated the lords and they didn't represent how the dark apostles were gifted slightly enough to summon daemons and such).

The red shirt asked me, "Would you like your HQ to be effective or be closer to a Dark Apostle?"

So i thought, I'll bite, and asked him, "What's the effective choice..." Big mistake.

He told me to take a Daemon Prince.

So, this red shirt now tells me the transition between codecies has turned my wonderful Dark Apostle into a DAEMON PRINCE! Anyone else see a problem?


Hey man that is lame! Word Bearers are so awesome,(i'll b doing an army of them soon!)but what bounes did you get from having
a Dark Apostle in the last dex????

Armys:
Iron Warriors:2000pts
Warriors of Chaos:2000pts

IRON WITHIN IRON WITHOUT!!

Win lose record:40k:
7-3-4 
   
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Second edition had more options, but was it better?

   
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Well it had a Daemon World and Cultist List, plus the main list, if that gives you any indication.

   
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I was just refering to second edition in general.

   
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The Great State of Texas

The last codex? yes
Fluff better
Options better

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
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Mad Rabbit wrote:
StormHalo wrote:
FITZZ wrote: This again?,ok,IMO the "not even as chaotic as a 90 year old nun"codex basicly sucked the fun and flavor right out of CSMs,bland boring generic daemons,no real cult armies,just an overall lack of variety...it may well be the worst codex GW has published.


I dunno about that...have you read the Dark Eldar codex?


Eh but how much do they really care at this point? We USED to have a great codex, then they took it away and gave us a kick in the balls instead.

Dark Eldar players have been locked in that dark basement corner for 10 years. They're used to it by now.


*hammers on basement door*

'Please let us out! We've been down here ten years! You've even let the Orks and Space Wolves out, why are you leaving us all alone down here.....'*cries in corner*


 
   
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Hierarch




Pueblo, CO

If I could get my two cents in here, might I present an option that could possibly appease both sides of this argument?


If people are so twisted up about not liking the new codex, then why not just use the old one? It seems to me that a lot of the issue is that people had many hours of work and several paychecks sucked up only to have them "wasted" when the new codex dropped. It seems to me that the developer's intention for 40k was to bring it a touch closer to D&D, and they say it rather expressly... if you don't like it, come up with a house rule and move on. The codex has points values, and the structure of the stat lines hasn't changed since 3rd edition (when I picked up my first starter box, but had nobody to play with), so, barring a few over-costed units, why wouldn't this be a feasible option for non-tourney play?

Even beyond this, if you want to run a Word Bearers army, pick up a copy of the Chaos Daemons codex, and run the 2 side by side... Is it really that big an issue?

If you're not playing at the tourney level and/or not interested in playing at the tourney level, you will likely be able to find people willing to play against older codices just for gaks and giggles... and if you can't, find a new group or store to play at/with.

Things I've gotten other players to admit...
Foldalot: Pariahs can sometimes be useful 
   
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Manchester

Crikey!
Look at all the posts on here by far my most popular topic
glad you guys want to have a rant so much lol
Tbh i dont even know what army to pick up and play anymore
but im really lookin at Chaos Daemons
who do you guys think i should pick?


ABH

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Dronze wrote:If I could get my two cents in here, might I present an option that could possibly appease both sides of this argument?


If people are so twisted up about not liking the new codex, then why not just use the old one? It seems to me that a lot of the issue is that people had many hours of work and several paychecks sucked up only to have them "wasted" when the new codex dropped. It seems to me that the developer's intention for 40k was to bring it a touch closer to D&D, and they say it rather expressly... if you don't like it, come up with a house rule and move on. The codex has points values, and the structure of the stat lines hasn't changed since 3rd edition (when I picked up my first starter box, but had nobody to play with), so, barring a few over-costed units, why wouldn't this be a feasible option for non-tourney play?

Even beyond this, if you want to run a Word Bearers army, pick up a copy of the Chaos Daemons codex, and run the 2 side by side... Is it really that big an issue?

If you're not playing at the tourney level and/or not interested in playing at the tourney level, you will likely be able to find people willing to play against older codices just for gaks and giggles... and if you can't, find a new group or store to play at/with.


this = win


 
   
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Minnesota

Dronze wrote:If I could get my two cents in here, might I present an option that could possibly appease both sides of this argument?


If people are so twisted up about not liking the new codex, then why not just use the old one? It seems to me that a lot of the issue is that people had many hours of work and several paychecks sucked up only to have them "wasted" when the new codex dropped. It seems to me that the developer's intention for 40k was to bring it a touch closer to D&D, and they say it rather expressly... if you don't like it, come up with a house rule and move on. The codex has points values, and the structure of the stat lines hasn't changed since 3rd edition (when I picked up my first starter box, but had nobody to play with), so, barring a few over-costed units, why wouldn't this be a feasible option for non-tourney play?

Even beyond this, if you want to run a Word Bearers army, pick up a copy of the Chaos Daemons codex, and run the 2 side by side... Is it really that big an issue?

If you're not playing at the tourney level and/or not interested in playing at the tourney level, you will likely be able to find people willing to play against older codices just for gaks and giggles... and if you can't, find a new group or store to play at/with.
I think if I was going to use an unofficial set of rules, I'd homebrew something up.

While I don't like the new codex one bit, I think the old one had a host of problems as well. GW just swung the pendulum on that one, and ended up with an equally unbalanced codex with less options. (All you get is increased mark-combining ability, which only benefits one of the nine legions. Every other legion lost something.)


Also, to those claiming people want an overpowered codex back, that's ridiculous. Chaos Marines are the third most powerful army now, just like they were in their 4th ed heyday. (Chaos Daemons are probably the fourth most powerful, so there's your "daemon bomb" back.)

The difference is before there were multiple good or even broken lists. Now they're reduced to one broken concept, and it's not even a fluffy one, like Iron Warriors were.

The Emperor doesn't seem to do much for you but you sure are expected to be mutilated, suffer, and die to make him happy. And is he dead or what? If he's entombed that would mean he's dead as a doornail, right? So, how can he be happy about anything you do, or even give orders to anyone? Are you worshipping the dead now? Is that something you'd really want to do? Because it sounds freaking creepy to me.
 
   
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I really think the new codex is an upgrade over the last CSM codex, which I liked.

It pains me to no end that my Berzerker horde no longer has Khornate chain axes that struck fear into MEQs and even more fear into units of terminators.
And I could no longer demon bomb a bunch of bloodletters and Khorn doggies.

My berzerkers have been shelved, but I've invsted some time into building some plague marines and noise marines.

I also was absolutely overjoyed by the fact that there is no mention of the "sacred number" bs from the previous codex.
I found it so odd that demons and servants of disorder were so stuck on being in units of a certain number. It made absolutely no sense.

I was disappointed by the lack of any chaos cultists troop choices. I would have gladly given up my demons to have legions of damned souls fighting
alongside my marines.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/07/08 19:48:53


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H.B.M.C. wrote:
Dendarien wrote:Demons are getting separated period, it is time to just realize that that is the way GW is taking things: no more multi-book allied forces outside Apoc and the like.


That's an odd way of looking at it. Daemons weren't an 'allied' part of Chaos in the previous Codex... or any Codex prior to the current one actually. They were simply part of the Chaos list. It's only recently that the distinction was made. Actually, when you look at it, Daemons are still part of the Chaos list, they're just generic... for no actual reason.

Why remove Daemons from the Codex and replace them with pathetic generic nonsense aside from wanting to sell new model kits/a new army?


Fair point about the demons, I guess I was thinking fantasy more than 40k demons. Obviously demons were released to capitalize on the new model ranges and such. I don't necessarily agree with it (I would love plaguebearers in my DG army!!). There is no doubt the new Chaos book is very confused as to what it is supposed to represent.
   
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Ketara wrote:
*hammers on basement door*

'Please let us out! We've been down here ten years! You've even let the Orks and Space Wolves out, why are you leaving us all alone down here.....'*cries in corner*


. *kicks the door* "Silence! Stop whining! It is unbecoming of the spawn of Commoragh! DonĀ“t give in to despair and hate! Use them! Let the anger flow through you and make you stronger!"

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Ketara wrote:
Mad Rabbit wrote:
StormHalo wrote:
FITZZ wrote: This again?,ok,IMO the "not even as chaotic as a 90 year old nun"codex basicly sucked the fun and flavor right out of CSMs,bland boring generic daemons,no real cult armies,just an overall lack of variety...it may well be the worst codex GW has published.


I dunno about that...have you read the Dark Eldar codex?


Eh but how much do they really care at this point? We USED to have a great codex, then they took it away and gave us a kick in the balls instead.

Dark Eldar players have been locked in that dark basement corner for 10 years. They're used to it by now.


*hammers on basement door*

'Please let us out! We've been down here ten years! You've even let the Orks and Space Wolves out, why are you leaving us all alone down here.....'*cries in corner*


"We already got hungry and ate all the Squat corpses down here!"

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Dendarien wrote:Fair point about the demons, I guess I was thinking fantasy more than 40k demons. Obviously demons were released to capitalize on the new model ranges and such. I don't necessarily agree with it (I would love plaguebearers in my DG army!!). There is no doubt the new Chaos book is very confused as to what it is supposed to represent.


Well even there there was no separation between Daemons and regular Chaos units (other than the in-game need to list what was 'Mortal' and what was 'Daemonic'). Daemons have been part of Chaos since the Realms of Chaos books first showed up. It's only recently that GW decided to split them up. I'm sure there's the same sort of rage from Chaos players in Fantasy who just had all their Daemons taken away - they didn't even get gakky generic replacements either like CSM did!!!

Now I'm not going to try and fool myself into thinking that GW did it out of the kindness of their hearts - they wanted to redo the model kits and sell a new army, but the only way they could do that was to invalidate many hundreds if not thousands of existing Chaos forces (this is across Fantasy and 40K). And, as I've said a couple of times in this thread and in my original review, it's just plain insulting.

Like many others, I play Word Bearers (and Deathguard, World Eaters, Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, LatD...). I put together a nice big list, using the rules to create a fluffy list with lots of troops choices. I have Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Daemonette Cav, Furies and Plague Bearers - all ready to go waiting in the warp for my squads of Marines to bring them forward. Now technically I can still do that, but it's with Generic CSM Squad and they're summoning in Generic Daemons. Where's the fun in that? Why does my Deathguard army suddenly not have access to Plague Bearers or a Great Unclean One? Does that make any sense? Well it does in a way, because Death Guard don't exist anyway.

And speaking of my Deathguard, they're one of my boutique armies, an army that has a set size and doesn't expand beyond my original design. Ignoring the Daemons, my Deathguard has 7 units of 7 Marines - one 7-man Plague Marine Terminator Squad, four 7-man Plague Marine squads and 2 7-man Plague Marine Havoc Squads. In the current rules that would be a Marked standard Lord leading some normal Terminators with an Icon, 4 units of Plague Marines that would be unable to take their second special weapon (I believe), and then two units of Havocs with an Icon. And 2 units of 14 Generic Daemons. And a Generic Greater Daemon. And a Daemon Prince who's only option is to take Wings or not take Wings. I really dig the Deathguard fluff, with them being self-sufficient units trained to be the best they can be, able to use their Bolters like CCWs, moving forward in transports to lay down a withering hail of Bolter, Melta and Plasma fire. I also really liked it when the fluff met the rules, and the two worked together to create a better army. I don't like it when the fluff doesn't have any impact on the rules - I can still take 2 Lash Princes and 9 Oblits and paint them up as Deathguard, which is just stupid. Fluff and rules should be congruent and one should influence the other. Fluff shouldn't be there just as a 'counts as' reason to have an army that sits behind the rules and has no real effect on them.

I guess when I'm trying to say is that the previous Chaos Codex gave us so much and the new one took so much away that it drained the life out of what was a vibrant, colourful and dynamic force with so many different ways of playing it. Not all of those ways were balanced of course - there were a lot of problems with that book - but it's not as if the new Codex solved those problems. There are still balance problems with the current book and it reigns as one of the better Codices in the game. But it is also one of the more dull. I'd love someone to give us a list of things the old Codex couldn't do or couldn't do better that the current one can (aside from Slaaneshi armies based around two Princes with 9 Oblits).

And I still find the idea that the old book was restrictive and that the new one 'freed us up' to be such an amazingly silly line of thinking. Obviously JonnyDD does as well, as he's yet to answer Fraz's question.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/08 23:21:42


   
Made in us
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine





I'm alright with the new codex, but I can't say I'm happy. I'll use it, but only because I kind of have to.

I had recently just unpacked my Night Lords and figured I'd get the new book if I wanted to play them. The Night Lords were actually my first 40k Army overall. I was sad to see they basically did away with the little chapter-specific upgrades (even just taking 4 fast attack and 2 heavies instead of the usual FOC ). A lot of the gear isn't even there either. Another thing that really bugged me is I took a lot of time making a very customized Retinue for my leader (Gave my Leader Fantasy Wing Bits and bought separate wing bits from furies to stick onto my marines as a winged retinue). Unless I missed something, I don't see an option for a Retinue anymore. Also, a lot of the Wargear isn't there anymore (Stealth Adept) and just a lot of the stuff I remember that make Chaos isn't really the way it was.

The one thing I really did like about the older Chaos Book is it kind of did what I wish they'd do with the marine supplemental books. No extra books, just slight changes for each of the armies within the main book.



 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator







Man, I'm tired of hearing "Deathguard don't exist anymore." That means that the Soul Drinkers, Emperor's Swords, Blood Ravens, various Tau Cepts, the main 'Nid hive fleets, Imperial Guard Tallarans, and every other force that is mentioned in the codex but not given a unit or list to represent them doesn't exist. So only armies with their own codicies or unit choices specific to them "exist?"

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

They exist in the fluff, they don't exist in the game.

What I have a problem with is the notion that the two cannot co-exist. They did before, but now they don't. Why?

   
Made in us
Manhunter




Eastern PA

DarkHound wrote:Man, I'm tired of hearing "Deathguard don't exist anymore." That means that the Soul Drinkers, Emperor's Swords, Blood Ravens, various Tau Cepts, the main 'Nid hive fleets, Imperial Guard Tallarans, and every other force that is mentioned in the codex but not given a unit or list to represent them doesn't exist. So only armies with their own codicies or unit choices specific to them "exist?"


nah, most of these armies NEVER had their own army. deathguard had a legal cult list, with a complete cult build, its own set of rules within the old chaos codex. then they dumped most of it, kept plague marines, but dumped the senior members of deathguard for "icon" marines.

There ain't nearly enough Salvage in this thread!

DS:80+S++G+M++++B++I++pwmhd05+D++A++/fWD88R+++T(S)DM+

Catyrpelius wrote:War Machine is broken to the point of being balanced.

sourclams wrote:I play Warmahordes. It's simply a better game.


 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator







But they CAN exist in the game. You MAKE them exist in the game by playing your army. The story isn't in the list! It isn't in the codex! It never has been! It is in the models! The holy trinity of tabletops, modeling, story and gaming. Modelling tells a story, while gaming progresses that story through the models. So long as you can have Plague Marines, the Deathguard will march on. Just because it there isn't a big, boldfaced "DEATHGUARD" over that section in the codex doesn't mean they disappear. I can see where it stings that someone will run a similar list that isn't the Deathguard, but so long as they follow the rules this can always happen. The Deathguard is in the models and the paint. I mean, look at Traitor Guard currently (and this isn't an invitation to cry about LatD, we went over that already). They use regular Guard lists, but the thing that sets it appart are the models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/09 01:59:03


   
Made in au
Skink Chief with Poisoned Javelins






Down under

The Chaos codex effectively killed 40k for me and my gaming group. I don't know if you can get larger FAIL than that.

 
   
 
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