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Could be that they decided on a K.I.S.S. system for the Space Marine Codex. The Space Marines already break a ton of rules for anyone new to the game, why further complicate it? This shows again when looking at the Chaos Space Marine Codex and how they simplified it too. Heck of all the armies Chaos SM break the rules the least.

And, you'll notice that many Chaos fans consider that codex a travesty.
People love being able to flavour their armies and although the SM codex lets you do that it doesn't do it as much as the old one did.

I've said this before, but I will go here again.

I think that the gamer psyche has something to do with it. Gamers tend (overwhelmingly) to feel as if they are slightly 'outcast'. They usually feel like they 'don't fit in.' As such, they tend to resent people who DO fit in, people who are 'popular.' Often, they tend to reject things that are 'the norm.' Frequently, they are drawn to the exception. How many people do you know who always want to play something weird in every RPG they are ever in? (A lawful good drow, a dwarven druid, the list goes on)

Most gamers, as they get older, get away from this more and more, but you still tend to see the kneejerk reaction that things that are popular are 'bad.' And, sometimes, they will even go so far as to invent reasons for their dislike.

I used to hate the Ultramarines, and eventually came around to like them. I'm not saying that everyone who hates Ultramarines hates them for this reason, but I do think that it plays a factor in some people's decision.

That's all just my opinion, of course.

^This seems to be where the "I don't like them 'cause they're blue" thing stems from. People seriously have a problem with the color blue? Green and blue seem to be some of the most common favorite colors...or at least in the US.

And I am one of those people that want to be different. I just like being one of those people

It is a particularly offensive shade of blue. Even the briefest of glimpses is enough to make blood pour from the eyes and leave the retina permanently charred.

purplefood wrote:And, you'll notice that many Chaos fans consider that codex a travesty.
People love being able to flavour their armies and although the SM codex lets you do that it doesn't do it as much as the old one did.

I agree, but I was merely speculating from a design perspective. It is easier to design an army without multiple traits and such and for the player to understand.

Surtur wrote:

purplefood wrote:And, you'll notice that many Chaos fans consider that codex a travesty.
People love being able to flavour their armies and although the SM codex lets you do that it doesn't do it as much as the old one did.

I agree, but I was merely speculating from a design perspective. It is easier to design an army without multiple traits and such and for the player to understand.

Probably yeah but it isn't that much easier and you miss out on a lot...

Way back in the day, there used to be three Marine oriented dexes: Space Wolves, Angels of Death (a BA/DA double dex of awesome), and Ultramarines. The Mary Sueness started right then and there, and simply got worse. They did try to reverse it in 3rd, making a Codex: Space Marines, with (gasp!) Crimson Fists on the cover, but 4th came along with Mat Ward, and now its All Ultras All The Time if you want a Codex Chapter.

Also, listen to the name. ULTRAMARINES. Specifically created for the noob mindset.

Though, in all candor, their SCs and Honor Guard got some sweet models.

^ I agree.
Should be like that.

I think the problem with Ultramarines is the combo of all the FNGs wanting to do Ultramarines and the fact that they are the posterboys of Space Marines in general, well those two reasons and they have a fairly granola/unbelievable backstory.

I think Ultramarines remind people of the police. People know we need them but they really hate getting tickets. The fluff and the poster boy treatment did not help either.

As for how other chapters treat Ultramarines, I think there is some resentment and fear stemming from the 2 primarchs noone can speak of. They may not be the goody goody boys we all know, but only time will tell if that story gets told. I hope it does.

For reasons aleady mentioned. They think they're better than everyone else. As do Games Workshop.
"All Space Marines aspire to be Ultramarines..."
Black Templars beg to differ.

Wow. A lot of responses.

Nobody likes them because they 1) clame to have the best record, 2) because of there aproche to war (for a saposedly tactical genius, glumen couldn't think of anyting better then "run at them, then run back".) BTW the only reason they have so many sucsesor chapters is because they were to far away to help during the heresy!

Please,PLEASE use the spellcheck.

Armadeus wrote:Nobody likes them because they 1) clame to have the best record, 2) because of there aproche to war (for a saposedly tactical genius, glumen couldn't think of anyting better then "run at them, then run back".) BTW the only reason they have so many sucsesor chapters is because they were to far away to help during the heresy!

1) Best record in what? Battle? Depends on the objective. They're the best at keeping the infrastructure of a planet intact after they leave.
2) Good tactical ability isn't a bad thing. They go by the book, so do many other chapters, but the book is good. Guilliman basically wrote the greatest tactical hand-out ever created, like The Art of War for an even more complicated setting.
3)They have a large number of successors because they were large in number, due to being led to, then held at Calth by around 100,000 angry Word Bearers. They fathered many successors due to stable geneseed and their large numbers. The Imperium would have fallen after The Heresy if the boys in blue didn't man the defenses.

Why do people really hate them? Well, they have their own reasons, don't generalize. I dislike them due to an over-use in the codex.
They differ from the rest because they're the stereotypical hero, who cares for the people and does things by the book. Remember, that they're inspired by the Roman theme, and that blandness is what differs them from the rest.
Essentially, the Ultramarines are the quintessential Space Marines, there was too much of an emphasis on them in the Codex, but who else do the go for as the poster boy?

I don't get why chapters would want to aspire to be like them, It'd make more sense if they aspired to be like one that either embraces Codex Astartes or rejects it almost completely. Like the Red Scorpions or the Raptors

King Pariah wrote:I don't get why chapters would want to aspire to be like them, It'd make more sense if they aspired to be like one that either embraces Codex Astartes or rejects it almost completely. Like the Red Scorpions or the Raptors

What are you smoking? Ultramarines are one of the strictest followers of the Codex Astartes.

coolyo294 wrote:

King Pariah wrote:I don't get why chapters would want to aspire to be like them, It'd make more sense if they aspired to be like one that either embraces Codex Astartes or rejects it almost completely. Like the Red Scorpions or the Raptors

What are you smoking? Ultramarines are the strictest followers of the Codex Astartes.

Fixed that for you.

Wardragoon wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:

King Pariah wrote:I don't get why chapters would want to aspire to be like them, It'd make more sense if they aspired to be like one that either embraces Codex Astartes or rejects it almost completely. Like the Red Scorpions or the Raptors

What are you smoking? Ultramarines are the strictest followers of the Codex Astartes.

Fixed that for you.

Red Scorpions actually are. Look it up.

King Pariah wrote:

Wardragoon wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:

King Pariah wrote:I don't get why chapters would want to aspire to be like them, It'd make more sense if they aspired to be like one that either embraces Codex Astartes or rejects it almost completely. Like the Red Scorpions or the Raptors

What are you smoking? Ultramarines are the strictest followers of the Codex Astartes.

Fixed that for you.

Red Scorpions actually are. Look it up.

No, because the Ultramarines Primarch wrote the Codex Astartes. And besides, Red Scorpions can have Apothecarys for Sergeants. That's sure not in the Codex Astartes.

Ya, Ultramarines can actually be executed for breaking the codex, well sent on suicide missions, as was the case of Uriel Ventris

Really, if the Ultramarines were not the poster boys, then another chapter would be, and you would hate them instead. This whole situation is stupid IMO.

Not necessarily true. Just because one is the poster child doesn't mean that it's completely overdone.

forruner_mercy wrote:Wow. A lot of responses.

What did you expect?
This is essentially a hate thread...

Melissia wrote:The fact that their most famous captain is named after a nickname for one fo the most famous traitors in modern history kinda puts me off them a little bit.

(Sicarius is related to various beliefs about Judas Iscariot and assassination in general...)

Might as well just give his first name as Judas.

Um, Cato the Contract Killer (Sicarius)... its latin... as Judas gave up Jesus for money, he is also known as "The Killer for Hire". I don't mind you disliking the Smurfs, I just hate the propagation of ignorance.

Cato (the younger) was a defender of the traditional ways of Rome

So "the Defender of Traditional Ways who will Come and Kill You" seems like a pretty good name for Cato Sicarius, IMO


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jimsolo wrote:I've said this before, but I will go here again.

I think that the gamer psyche has something to do with it. Gamers tend (overwhelmingly) to feel as if they are slightly 'outcast'. They usually feel like they 'don't fit in.' As such, they tend to resent people who DO fit in, people who are 'popular.' Often, they tend to reject things that are 'the norm.' Frequently, they are drawn to the exception. How many people do you know who always want to play something weird in every RPG they are ever in? (A lawful good drow, a dwarven druid, the list goes on)

Most gamers, as they get older, get away from this more and more, but you still tend to see the kneejerk reaction that things that are popular are 'bad.' And, sometimes, they will even go so far as to invent reasons for their dislike.

I used to hate the Ultramarines, and eventually came around to like them. I'm not saying that everyone who hates Ultramarines hates them for this reason, but I do think that it plays a factor in some people's decision.

That's all just my opinion, of course.

Amen. I was a smurf hating Eldar player way back in the day (1st/2nd edition). Sold off my Eldar and slowly collected UM across the years (and grew up some). I hated 4th edition so thought I'd wait when I finally had time to get back to Warhammer. Then, due to the chance to start a 10 player sized club I recently got back into 40K with a UM force that has done well and has been a ton of fun for me. I teach/study Roman history, so its fun for me to create new fluff for sergeants and such while working in Roman/Latin themes into my models and army.

Lobukia wrote:Um, Cato the Contract Killer (Sicarius)... its latin... as Judas gave up Jesus for money, he is also known as "The Killer for Hire". I don't mind you disliking the Smurfs, I just hate the propagation of ignorance.

Then stop doing it.

The title Iscariot (as in, Judas Iscariot) is a reference to him being a member of the Sicarii. It's not as simple as that, as it never is (the precise etymology is lost in the mists of time-- etymologists will argue a thousand different meanings and then bemoan another thousand as lies before the day is through, but this one comes up most commonly), but the -ote ending indicates being a member of an organization, and the way "iscariot" is formed very much meshes with how words are often changed between languages such as greek and modern hebrew.

Melissia wrote:The fact that their most famous captain is named after a nickname for one fo the most famous traitors in modern history kinda puts me off them a little bit.

I'm not saying the words aren't related, just the assertion that a possible shortened title from a word is the source and meaning for the root word being used in a different connotation is a serious stretch... especially when you word it as "a fact" above.

This is like saying Killer from Beetle Bailey takes his name from the John Woo film Killer since they have similar names and in a very vague sense share the same word in the same language (just ignore all context).

GW is using Latin words for UM characters, not foreshadowing Cato betraying the Chapter (though that would be an very clever and interesting twist... Severus Agemman battling against Cato Sicarius who has turned renegade... no one but Melissia would have seen that one coming)... though somehow the same whiners that hate the UM for being too good would hate them for not seeing the betrayal coming

Armadeus wrote:Nobody likes them because they 1) clame to have the best record, 2) because of there aproche to war (for a saposedly tactical genius, glumen couldn't think of anyting better then "run at them, then run back".) BTW the only reason they have so many sucsesor chapters is because they were to far away to help during the heresy!

Hey I like them...

So what if they are M.W. most fav. and creators of Codex Astartes. They are fine chapter, and after all - they are the ones who provided manpower for the foundation of the chapter ( 4/6 chapters are from Ultramarines ).
And all of you for hate them for not being at the Battle for Terra remember - there is no way they could participate. Horus ( they then didn't know about his heresy ) send them to the other end of the galaxy to fight an invasion from Ork empire. And after they where gone, Horus cut all connection with Ultramar and attack Terra. Only when the battle for Terra was at it's near end the R.G and his legion finish with the invasion forces of the Ork empire and realized that they where cut off from the Imperium. And then the Word Barrers attacked them, and when Guiliman realized what was happening and he set course for Terra. If this is the case, then I am hating US Army for not being at Stalingrad to hold on the German offensive.
And the fact that they saved the Imperium and that they have their won little empire is saying something.

Brother Coa wrote:

Armadeus wrote:Nobody likes them because they 1) clame to have the best record, 2) because of there aproche to war (for a saposedly tactical genius, glumen couldn't think of anyting better then "run at them, then run back".) BTW the only reason they have so many sucsesor chapters is because they were to far away to help during the heresy!

Hey I like them...

So what if they are M.W. most fav. and creators of Codex Astartes. They are fine chapter, and after all - they are the ones who provided manpower for the foundation of the chapter ( 4/6 chapters are from Ultramarines ).
And all of you for hate them for not being at the Battle for Terra remember - there is no way they could participate. Horus ( they then didn't know about his heresy ) send them to the other end of the galaxy to fight an invasion from Ork empire. And after they where gone, Horus cut all connection with Ultramar and attack Terra. Only when the battle for Terra was at it's near end the R.G and his legion finish with the invasion forces of the Ork empire and realized that they where cut off from the Imperium. And then the Word Barrers attacked them, and when Guiliman realized what was happening and he set course for Terra. If this is the case, then I am hating US Army for not being at Stalingrad to hold on the German offensive.
And the fact that they saved the Imperium and that they have their won little empire is saying something.

I equate it more to Halsey pounding the Japanese carriers at Leyte Gulf. Meanwhile the escort carriers took on the main battlefleet and saved the invasion force. RG got duped again... That is what we all aspire to. Being gullible marines.