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The Watcher in the Dark wrote:I hope the Necron rumours are true, not just because there models look really good, but for the background. They have to have some of the best fluff in the 40k universe.

GW aren't the only ones lacking creativity though:


Cadian


Space Marine (they even call it power armour)

Ok, it's just coincidence...


Power Fist

Erm...

The first guy looks a lot more like the Colonial Marines from Aliens.


"Power armor" was coined back in atleast the 1959...

Simply put this all doesn't matter. The writers and designers of 40k have many times said that the 40k universe is an amalgamation of Sci-fi and Fantasy archetypes... that said its a bit of an "no-derrrrr" sort of thing when people point out the commonalities and similarities GW already acknowledges. Get over it. Move on.

Kevin Nash wrote:

WAAAGH!!!BLITZROG wrote:

Therion wrote:

Wonder wat the Necromancer will look like...

You shouldn't be surprised if it looks a lot like the big robot in Terminator: Salvation. Afterall, GW ripped off both the 'terminator' name and the Android/Necron Warrior look from the original Terminator movie. Now shortly after the latest Terminator movie we get a Necron Giant.

I'm not complaining. I'm looking forward to this release and if the models and codex are a success I will definitely start the army. It's just that sometimes watching GW use everyone else's ideas as their own and on the other hand going after small independent miniature companies and fan sites gets a little overwhelming.

totally agree, aside from most armies in 40k are based off of their fantasy range (and that’s based off D&D races) some of newer races lack any creativity.

Necrons - Ripped from Terminators
Tyranids - Ripped from Aliens
Tau - ripped from Star Wars "Trade Federation"

Apparently somebody has never heard of Robotech

But yes your point stands.

So if these new models are due to release in Jan 2011 that would imply a codex coming out prior to that yes?

Necron Codex late 2010?

Crisis suits don't look anything like Valkyries... nor do the Tau look like the Zentraedi.

Tau's fleshy bits do look like the fishmen from Episode 1, but they also bare a resemblance to Neo-Saipens.. and the Crisis suits have a similar aesthetic to the E-Frames, both of Exo-Squad.




Tau are much more good old fashion American Mecha then Japanese Mecha

ANYWAY I think it's time for some good old fashioned wild mass guessing about these rumors.

Do we think this walker would be a vehicle, or an MC? I'm gonna guess MC so we can have some sort of WBB shenanigans: instead of WBB it comes back with D3-1 wounds, meaning it's dead on a 1-2.

Changing the design on the Immortals is probably a good sign. While there's nothing particularly bad about the current models, they really are a little to similar to just Warriors with blasters.

Same goes for tomb spyders, especially if there's going to be a multi-model kit. Maybe they'll perform a new special function or something?

I hope WBB doesn't get replaced, too.

The cron Dread sounds flipping awesome, and being a huge fan of the tomb kings I could see myself starting a little cron army to rival my friends.

Hope at least the dreadcron is real.

I LOVED Exosquad, along with Pirates of Dark Water.

Sigh...the undiscovered golden age of American cartoons was athe early 1990s. "_"

Anywho, if they do change around the Necrons, at least make the Immortals different from Warriors.

And GET RID OF PHASING OUT!

Gargskull wrote:Perhaps he meant the 40mm ones.

Not the kind of mistake you'd expect someone "in the know" to make.
KWIM?

Color me skeptical.

Eric

Cyporiean wrote:Tau's fleshy bits do look like the fishmen from Episode 1, but they also bare a resemblance to Neo-Saipens.. and the Crisis suits have a similar aesthetic to the E-Frames, both of Exo-Squad.




Tau are much more good old fashion American Mecha then Japanese Mecha

Dang beaten to it

HoverBoy wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:Tau's fleshy bits do look like the fishmen from Episode 1, but they also bare a resemblance to Neo-Saipens.. and the Crisis suits have a similar aesthetic to the E-Frames, both of Exo-Squad.




Tau are much more good old fashion American Mecha then Japanese Mecha

Dang beaten to it

Also, wasn't the toy line retconned so that it was part of Robotech, anyway?

Oh, and Cyporiean, it's "bear a resemblance", not bare.

The Watcher in the Dark wrote:
Space Marine (they even call it power armour)

Space Marines and Power Armour are fairly generic terms in SF, I think that looks more like a Star Wars Stormtrooper (if you squint) than a GW Marine.

no its BARE not BEAR BEAR is a animal

and yay my 30k points of crons may win a game

Hmm... so maybe I should hold off on finishing these guys off...

Platuan4th wrote:

HoverBoy wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:Tau's fleshy bits do look like the fishmen from Episode 1, but they also bare a resemblance to Neo-Saipens.. and the Crisis suits have a similar aesthetic to the E-Frames, both of Exo-Squad.




Tau are much more good old fashion American Mecha then Japanese Mecha

Dang beaten to it

Also, wasn't the toy line retconned so that it was part of Robotech, anyway?

Oh, and Cyporiean, it's "bear a resemblance", not bare.

Actually, parts of the 'Robotech' Toy line were brought into Exosquad.. alone with Battletech.

But continuity and Robotech don't really go together very well.

SweetLou wrote:no its BARE not BEAR BEAR is a animal

*cough* You're either a troll or an undereducated teen/kid(probably the second, as an comes before vowels, not a).*cough*

SweetLou wrote:no its BARE not BEAR BEAR is a animal

It's 'bear'

'Bare' means 'uncovered'.

'Bear' is an animal, but the word also has other meanings. To 'bear' something can mean 'to carry' (as in 'ring bearer'), to support (as in a 'load bearing structure') or to put up with (as in 'bear with me')...

I've always been awful at grammar/spelling, thank Adobe that InDesign has checks.

Platuan4th wrote:1. Genestealers didn't originally have elongated heads(and still don't).

2. Genestealers weren't originally Tyranids in RT. They were aliens from the planet Yymgarl.

3. The first Tyranids(that were actually called Tyranids, anyway) were Gaunts NOT Genestealers.

Not saying I particularly disagree with you, just that your statement isn't the best proof.

Incidentally, the best examples for your case are the 2nd ed Hormagaunts and the 3rd ed Tytrant(and the similarly designed FW Tyrants).

1.) Look at the back head of a Genestealer, then look at the back head of a human: Which one goes farther back? If in doubt, look at the first metal hormagaunts, as you already noticed.

2.) When Genestealers were introduced, there were no other Tyranids. Then the hunter slayers, Zoats and Tyranid Warriors were introduced. When the first Tyranid Codex was released, Genestealers were part of it as Tyranid shock troopers, making them the first Tyranid models. Early art shows them acting together with Tyranid warriors.

3.) The first "Tyranids" were the Warrios from Advanced Space Hulk, who were explicitely called Tyranids. The gaunts were called Hunter Slayers, not Tyranids at first. The first Codex made the connections between all of them clear, using the word Tyranid for the race, not only the warriors.

So much for that.

BTW anyone interested in Necron release rumours?
Stickmonkey has just repeated the rumour on a bone-sized MC Necron plastic kit.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/284291.page

insaniak wrote:Hmm... so maybe I should hold off on finishing these guys off...

Noo... Iron Giant is a good robot!

So Necrons are getting a giant Necron? Furthering their 'homage' to Cybermen concept?

Kroothawk wrote:
2.) When Genestealers were introduced, there were no other Tyranids. Then the hunter slayers, Zoats and Tyranid Warriors were introduced. When the first Tyranid Codex was released, Genestealers were part of it as Tyranid shock troopers, making them the first Tyranid models. Early art shows them acting together with Tyranid warriors.

3.) The first "Tyranids" were the Warrios from Advanced Space Hulk, who were explicitely called Tyranids. The gaunts were called Hunter Slayers, not Tyranids at first. The first Codex made the connections between all of them clear, using the word Tyranid for the race, not only the warriors.

So much for that.

The first tyranid model was an extremely limited release of a creature exactly resembling the picture in Rogue Trader. It predated the genestealer (first genestealer had a segmented head rather than a smooth dome) by several years. There's a picture of one in an old 'Eavy Metal, on a page with other monsters, an issue prior to the 100th issue, in the high 80s perhaps. I seem to remember the citadel troglodytes on the same page but I might be blurring, it's been a couple of decades.

It was metal, it was on a monster square base, it was considerably larger than a hunter slayer (the hunter slayers also predated the first genestealer model, being released shortly after the Zoats).

MeanGreenStompa wrote:It was metal, it was on a monster square base, it was considerably larger than a hunter slayer (the hunter slayers also predated the first genestealer model, being released shortly after the Zoats).

Just to keep things alarmingly off topic still... was it this fella? http://www.solegends.com/citrt/40kdominators.htm

Izual wrote:Necrons2011 over at Warseer posted this: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249667

Hello, I can't start a thread.

I have some information regarding the development of a Necron codex. I do not normally come on Warseer, but thought you would appreciate this information – hence the small number of posts. You have no reason to put faith in me – and I am not prepared to prove my validity at potential detriment to my career. I do not want to specify my exact employment with Games Workshop for this reason.

Necrons have completed the initial concept phase of their line expansion. Release schedule is currently for January 2011.

This conceptual phase has been stop-start for some time – it is a product range that has massive potential, and Games Workshop have been very uncertain of the most lucrative theme by which to capitalise on its fanbase. The development is considered a high-risk investment – a commitment problem that the team is well aware of, and is exacerbated by there being multiple such high-risk line expansions currently being pursued.



3 multi-part plastic kits have been finalised as:

- Immortals
- Spyders
- The Necromancer


Immortals are on a large (35mm) base; they are redesigned as larger, bulkier and more dynamic.

Spyders have 3 different builds

The Necromancer is the central sell of the line expansion and has been the focus of much of the early design process. It has been through several incarnations (and names), but is essentially of the same principle as the Bone Giant for the Warhammer Fantasy range. It has a mechanised skeletal torso housing a suspended crystal, and will likely have a choice between two horrific weapons.


That is all the information I can disclose. I will not post any more.

I would like to add that development staff are getting very frustrated by headquarters’ increasingly tyrannical policies – within and between departments – with regards to information restriction. It’s absurd, and unnecessary.

Necromancer?


Give me a break, why don't you and your brain trust come up with something better then that Deep Throat.


"That is all the information I can disclose. I will not post anymore."

OOH AHH!!! You told us too much already.


LOL

If you do work for GW, why don't you get your collective heads out of your fouth point of contact and come up with something serious.


Thats the best you tools can come up with? Necromancer?

Run along, your short bus is getting away.

You can't start a thread? Run along, you tool, What do you call it when you making the first post with a whole bunch of GAK in it?

Its called a Thread!

Ostrakon wrote:Do we think this walker would be a vehicle, or an MC? I'm gonna guess MC so we can have some sort of WBB shenanigans: instead of WBB it comes back with D3-1 wounds, meaning it's dead on a 1-2.

I'd have to agree with it being an MC....in effect a REALLY big Necron foot soldier.

Ostrakon wrote:Changing the design on the Immortals is probably a good sign. While there's nothing particularly bad about the current models, they really are a little to similar to just Warriors with blasters.

Agree with this also. I have a full 2nd edition Necron army and when I saw the new Immortals they didn't look like they should be toughness 5. The 2nd ed ones are beefier than their warrior bretherin, looking like they'd be harder to take down. If the new Immortals are plastic and look cool, I will be replacing my current Immortals with the new ones.

Ostrakon wrote:Same goes for tomb spyders, especially if there's going to be a multi-model kit. Maybe they'll perform a new special function or something?.

One can hope....I hope their BS will be raised from the pathetic 2 that it is now and maybe give them access to Heavy Gauss Cannons or their equivalent in the new Codex.

Ostrakon wrote:I hope WBB doesn't get replaced, too.

Best bet is that WBB will be replaced by Feel No Pain. I'd also kinda like to see the army get Slow and Purposeful to represent the relentless advance of the robot horde.

Grot 6 wrote:Necromancer? Give me a break, why don't you and your brain trust come up with something better then that Deep Throat. (...)
Thats the best you tools can come up with? Necromancer?

Yeah, what's next? Calling a new Tyranid Tyrannofex ... or a Space Wolf character Canis Wolfborn, riding on a wolf? Ridiculous! GW would never do that!

BTW he couldn't start a thread over at Warseer because forum settings forbid it. He had to post in the Blood Angels thread and some mod then created a new thread.

*cough* You're either a troll or an undereducated teen/kid(probably the second, as an comes before vowels, not a).*cough*


looks like i was wrong, sorry, thankyou for correcting me

SweetLou wrote:*cough* You're either a troll or an undereducated teen/kid(probably the second, as an comes before vowels, not a).*cough*


looks like i was wrong, sorry, thankyou for correcting me

Thanks, Kettle, now do you have some sort of point?

Zathras wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:Do we think this walker would be a vehicle, or an MC? I'm gonna guess MC so we can have some sort of WBB shenanigans: instead of WBB it comes back with D3-1 wounds, meaning it's dead on a 1-2.

I'd have to agree with it being an MC....in effect a REALLY big Necron foot soldier.

Ostrakon wrote:Changing the design on the Immortals is probably a good sign. While there's nothing particularly bad about the current models, they really are a little to similar to just Warriors with blasters.

Agree with this also. I have a full 2nd edition Necron army and when I saw the new Immortals they didn't look like they should be toughness 5. The 2nd ed ones are beefier than their warrior bretherin, looking like they'd be harder to take down. If the new Immortals are plastic and look cool, I will be replacing my current Immortals with the new ones.

Ostrakon wrote:Same goes for tomb spyders, especially if there's going to be a multi-model kit. Maybe they'll perform a new special function or something?.

One can hope....I hope their BS will be raised from the pathetic 2 that it is now and maybe give them access to Heavy Gauss Cannons or their equivalent in the new Codex.

Ostrakon wrote:I hope WBB doesn't get replaced, too.

Best bet is that WBB will be replaced by Feel No Pain. I'd also kinda like to see the army get Slow and Purposeful to represent the relentless advance of the robot horde.

I dunno about FNP replacing WBB, since we wouldn't be able to FNP from plasma and the like. Either way I feel like either Phaseout should go, or we should get some kind of point discount to compensate. I mean, 'crons (right now) have the weakness of being absolute crap in CC, and even their shooting is not particularly good, especially for our mandatory 360 points of crappy troops (bolter fire with the occasional autoglance? yech). I mean, if they're going to a MEQ with crappy CC capabilities AND get saddled with phaseout, they should logically be cheaper than marines. Factor in WBB and I honestly think they should stay at Tac marine cost, or keep about their current cost if we get rid of phaseout. If we're keeping phaseout I see no reason why they can't keep their current statline, get FNP and S+P (inherent to every Necron model in fact), for in the range of 15 points/model.

I wonder how the Tomb Spyder would interact with FNP if he still keeps his "Artificer" function. I could see TSs be upgrades to Necron units, kind of like how Nobs work or maybe how Wolf Guard leaders work. I think allowing a FNP reroll would be asking too much, but maybe one FNP reroll a turn per squad or something like that? Or maybe the TS would function as the current Res Orb does (allow the roll when you wouldn't normally get it) and the Res Orb would logically be redone to be some kind of FNP reroll ability.

I want to see Flayed Ones move to troops and either gain Fleet/Rending a la Daemonettes or built in PWs like Bloodletters, and stay around the same points costs. I want to see Pariahs count as Necrons or given a discount of some kind, maybe moved to I4 or gain an attack. I want to see C'Tan not get moved to Apoc. I want to see Immortals pretty much stay the same. I'd like to see Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers merged into the same unit, with Destroyers getting a heavy gauss cannon wargear option, and I want to see that cannon be AP1 so it can actually kill vehicles like it is supposed to.

I want a lot of things, apparently. Either way I'm incredibly excited about whatever they're going to do with it, as they can really only go up from here. If Matt Ward is really writing it, I'm sure they'll finally be as relentless and menacing as they are depicted in the fluff. I just hope they don't print something absolutely broken, because I don't want to be accused of playing a cheese army when I started playing them post 5E anyway...

Ostrakon wrote:

Zathras wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:Do we think this walker would be a vehicle, or an MC? I'm gonna guess MC so we can have some sort of WBB shenanigans: instead of WBB it comes back with D3-1 wounds, meaning it's dead on a 1-2.

I'd have to agree with it being an MC....in effect a REALLY big Necron foot soldier.

Ostrakon wrote:Changing the design on the Immortals is probably a good sign. While there's nothing particularly bad about the current models, they really are a little to similar to just Warriors with blasters.

Agree with this also. I have a full 2nd edition Necron army and when I saw the new Immortals they didn't look like they should be toughness 5. The 2nd ed ones are beefier than their warrior bretherin, looking like they'd be harder to take down. If the new Immortals are plastic and look cool, I will be replacing my current Immortals with the new ones.

Ostrakon wrote:Same goes for tomb spyders, especially if there's going to be a multi-model kit. Maybe they'll perform a new special function or something?.

One can hope....I hope their BS will be raised from the pathetic 2 that it is now and maybe give them access to Heavy Gauss Cannons or their equivalent in the new Codex.

Ostrakon wrote:I hope WBB doesn't get replaced, too.

Best bet is that WBB will be replaced by Feel No Pain. I'd also kinda like to see the army get Slow and Purposeful to represent the relentless advance of the robot horde.

I dunno about FNP replacing WBB, since we wouldn't be able to FNP from plasma and the like. Either way I feel like either Phaseout should go, or we should get some kind of point discount to compensate. I mean, 'crons (right now) have the weakness of being absolute crap in CC, and even their shooting is not particularly good, especially for our mandatory 360 points of crappy troops (bolter fire with the occasional autoglance? yech). I mean, if they're going to a MEQ with crappy CC capabilities AND get saddled with phaseout, they should logically be cheaper than marines. Factor in WBB and I honestly think they should stay at Tac marine cost, or keep about their current cost if we get rid of phaseout. If we're keeping phaseout I see no reason why they can't keep their current statline, get FNP and S+P (inherent to every Necron model in fact), for in the range of 15 points/model.

I wonder how the Tomb Spyder would interact with FNP if he still keeps his "Artificer" function. I could see TSs be upgrades to Necron units, kind of like how Nobs work or maybe how Wolf Guard leaders work. I think allowing a FNP reroll would be asking too much, but maybe one FNP reroll a turn per squad or something like that? Or maybe the TS would function as the current Res Orb does (allow the roll when you wouldn't normally get it) and the Res Orb would logically be redone to be some kind of FNP reroll ability.

I want to see Flayed Ones move to troops and either gain Fleet/Rending a la Daemonettes or built in PWs like Bloodletters, and stay around the same points costs. I want to see Pariahs count as Necrons or given a discount of some kind, maybe moved to I4 or gain an attack. I want to see C'Tan not get moved to Apoc. I want to see Immortals pretty much stay the same. I'd like to see Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers merged into the same unit, with Destroyers getting a heavy gauss cannon wargear option, and I want to see that cannon be AP1 so it can actually kill vehicles like it is supposed to.

I want a lot of things, apparently. Either way I'm incredibly excited about whatever they're going to do with it, as they can really only go up from here. If Matt Ward is really writing it, I'm sure they'll finally be as relentless and menacing as they are depicted in the fluff. I just hope they don't print something absolutely broken, because I don't want to be accused of playing a cheese army when I started playing them post 5E anyway...

QFT

I like the way you think.

Kroothawk wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:Necromancer? Give me a break, why don't you and your brain trust come up with something better then that Deep Throat. (...)
Thats the best you tools can come up with? Necromancer?

Yeah, what's next? Calling a new Tyranid Tyrannofex ... or a Space Wolf character Canis Wolfborn, riding on a wolf? Ridiculous! GW would never do that!

Well Tyrannofex is pretty silly (Tyrant-maker? wut), and Canis Wolfborn is certainly cheesy, they at least make sense as a failed attempt at applying the Rule of Cool. (I can just picture them whining "[url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle8px80d2wm3pd?from=Main.WhatDoYouMeanItsNotAwesome]What do you mean it's not awesome![url]")

Necromancer kind of doesn't fit for several reasons. I mean, maybe it's just me, but I picture "necromancers" as scrawny spellcasters who rarely close to melee. Maybe it's a Necromancer insofar as it's leading a vast horde of "undead", but I dunno. It seems like it'll be CC oriented from the description.

I'll wait until I hear something from a more credible source. The whole base size thing really did it for me. I highly doubt 35mm bases will be coming in for GW.

I don't think I like idea of a Necron "Bone Giant" type creature, it seems too cheesy/simplistic to give an army of robot skeletons a giant robot skeleton. I would much rather they made a Carnifex sized fig/kit for a giant plastic Tomb Spyder. I really dislike the current metal fig, and would gladly see it replaced with something better and the old one gotten rid of. And yes, I have several of my own metal ones that would become "useless" then too.

And since we're on a topic of a new Necron Codex, I'll go ahead and repeat the three main things I would love to see put into it.

1.) Change We'll Be Back into Feel No Pain. WBB is just an overly complicated rule that in the end has the same general effect as the MUCH simpler FNP. Yes, I'm sure "You" understand exactly how WBB works in all possible circumstances, but So Many people get the rule and all of it's interactions wrong So Often. Yes, FNP is a nerf to a couple unit's (mostly destroyers) durability from enemy shooting, but it's a buff to every unit's melee, as they'll get to make their attacks back after passing their saves, and melee is where we need the help.

2.) To further help Necrons in melee, without simply making them better at it, give all Necrons LD10, and an uber stubborn rule where they are Always and Forever LD10 and NOTHING can override or lower their LD to Anything other than LD10 for Any reason or purpose. OMG so Broken, right?! Keep reading...

3.) Phase Out. It's fluffy, but it really kills the army and the variety of units you can take as you constantly need to watch that Phase Out count. Instead put Phase Out on the Unit level, where if they fail a Moral Check, they Phase Out and the Unit is removed from the table, with no chance of coming back or saving, just gone. With the #2 change it'd be really hard to break `em, but when you do they suffer for it, and who wants to see robots running away in fear anyway?