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Aduro--I think it all depends on how the "Bone Giant"-esque critter is made. If it's just "Okay, here's a giant Necron with bigger weapons. Enjoy!" then yeah, that'd be kinda lame.

But if it were "Okay, here's a giant robotic skeleton that renders down slaughtered enemies and functions as a massive conduit for rendered down souls to fuel the undying hordes of the Necrontyr"?
That'd actually be pretty badass.

I've hurt myself too many times hoping and praying for any kind of news now this comes along....I'll keep a glimmer of hope but for the moment I'll be patiently awaiting factual news.

i think that phase out should work as, a unit that gets swept phases out instead of dying and can DS in from reserves as normal.

2.) To further help Necrons in melee, without simply making them better at it, give all Necrons LD10, and an uber stubborn rule where they are Always and Forever LD10 and NOTHING can override or lower their LD to Anything other than LD10 for Any reason or purpose. OMG so Broken, right?! Keep reading...

3.) Phase Out. It's fluffy, but it really kills the army and the variety of units you can take as you constantly need to watch that Phase Out count. Instead put Phase Out on the Unit level, where if they fail a Moral Check, they Phase Out and the Unit is removed from the table, with no chance of coming back or saving, just gone. With the #2 change it'd be really hard to break `em, but when you do they suffer for it, and who wants to see robots running away in fear anyway?

That's... a really excellent idea. I don't quite like the execution, but the idea of a unit-by-unit phaseout working quite well.

To be honest, I'd like to keep their melee vulnerability, at least for ranged units like Destroyers, warriors, and immortals. Fluff depicts Wraiths and Flayed Ones as bloody, quick, and deadly in CC, but I think thematically it's okay for whatever unit that somehow escapes mass gauss death deserves to cut down the lumbering warriors. I say this mostly because I envision them being cheaper pointswise, so I can really field an undead "legion" if I wanted to. So I think in a properly realized Necron army, the melee units get Stubborn and the ranged infantry get S+P.

As for the unit-by-unit phaseout, I think it would work better like this, to prevent incredibly bad luck from screwing you (lose 3 warriors to plasma, fail one Ld and they're all gone? yech). I think it should be that they only phaseout when they either fail to regroup, or are put in a position where they can't try to regroup (50% strength, unit within 6, etc). This way they can't be easily phased out by shooting unless your opponent concentrates a buttload of fire on them.

What do you guys think about Destroyers becoming fast, open-topped skimmers with AV all around like Landspeeders? I think it would be interesting. They could get WBB in the form of either getting up after death (counting as shaken) or repairing weapon destroyed results or something. I dunno, maybe it's simpler as is.

Also, I think the whole autoglance thing needs to go. Just make all the gauss weaponry rending. I don't think that would be too much to ask, and it makes enemy AV matter more: Warriors couldn't touch AV14 and wouldn't touch AV13 most of the time, but a very lucky shot (we're talking 1/27) could penetrate AV12. Destroyers could reliably penetrate AV12 and have a shot at touching AV14, even though they normally wouldn't. I think it would add some reliability to our antivehicle capabilities and actually make our supposed technological superiority worth something in the shooting phase.

Of course keeping all that pretty much hinges on some kind of Phaseout drawback. Maybe gauss weapons are only rending if the unit didn't move that turn (so we'd still get 24 inch range off of S+P but it wouldn't rend unless we stood our ground.)

While it's pretty clear that GW drew "inspiration" for their 'Nids from both Aliens and Starship Troopers, other races such as the Eldar are quite literally "space elves" based on GW's fantasy line which was based on D&D/Tolkien. Similarily, necrons are simply "space tomb kings" dressed up as Terminators. The races' backstories evolved over time with each new edition and codex.

They already have been revamping the Necron fluff somewhat, if you look in the 5E rulebook, in the Necron fluff section they talk about various Lords and their functions and how some have personalities while others are automatons, about how some have their bodies remade into larger and grander forms to mirror their belief that they are gods (Nightbringer/Deciever, now super-Lords?)

Apparently somebody has never heard of Robotech

But yes your point stands.

So if these new models are due to release in Jan 2011 that would imply a codex coming out prior to that yes?

Necron Codex late 2010?

I think it would be more like the BA release this year or Nids - Codex and new boxes first up, with a new battleforce 2 weeks later.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Apparently somebody has never heard of Robotech

But yes your point stands.

So if these new models are due to release in Jan 2011 that would imply a codex coming out prior to that yes?

Necron Codex late 2010?

I think it would be more like the BA release this year or Nids - Codex and new boxes first up, with a new battleforce 2 weeks later.

Kevin Nash wrote:
So if these new models are due to release in Jan 2011 that would imply a codex coming out prior to that yes?

Necron Codex late 2010?

That would make it the big December release and if this talk of Necrons being a risk for GW they would not release them as their Xmas release would they?

After reading this topic I'm now convinced that GW is run by SkyNet.

elaverick wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:It was metal, it was on a monster square base, it was considerably larger than a hunter slayer (the hunter slayers also predated the first genestealer model, being released shortly after the Zoats).

Just to keep things alarmingly off topic still... was it this fella? http://www.solegends.com/citrt/40kdominators.htm

No, the first tyranid warrior was a 'like for like' with the picture in Rogue Trader, except it's back arms were folded in on it's self so it was 'long' and equine shaped rather than tall with the thorn thorax . I never saw it personally, just in a White Dwarf eavy metal, painted. I seem to remember the citadel troglodytes and the citadel hydra on the same page or around that edition of WD.

I have been told from others of that age that it was produced in blisters. But GW was a random thing back then and many things weren't advertised or announced, they just showed up on shelves. The first genestealer was co-released along with the 2nd (or mebber 3rd) design for the terminator marine (they finally settled on the 4th terminator design).

Aduro wrote:

1.) Change We'll Be Back into Feel No Pain. WBB is just an overly complicated rule that in the end has the same general effect as the MUCH simpler FNP. Yes, I'm sure "You" understand exactly how WBB works in all possible circumstances, but So Many people get the rule and all of it's interactions wrong So Often. Yes, FNP is a nerf to a couple unit's (mostly destroyers) durability from enemy shooting, but it's a buff to every unit's melee, as they'll get to make their attacks back after passing their saves, and melee is where we need the help.

2.) To further help Necrons in melee, without simply making them better at it, give all Necrons LD10, and an uber stubborn rule where they are Always and Forever LD10 and NOTHING can override or lower their LD to Anything other than LD10 for Any reason or purpose. OMG so Broken, right?! Keep reading...

3.) Phase Out. It's fluffy, but it really kills the army and the variety of units you can take as you constantly need to watch that Phase Out count. Instead put Phase Out on the Unit level, where if they fail a Moral Check, they Phase Out and the Unit is removed from the table, with no chance of coming back or saving, just gone. With the #2 change it'd be really hard to break `em, but when you do they suffer for it, and who wants to see robots running away in fear anyway?

Some very good ideas there.

Breotan wrote:While it's pretty clear that GW drew "inspiration" for their 'Nids from both Aliens and Starship Troopers, other races such as the Eldar are quite literally "space elves" based on GW's fantasy line which was based on D&D/Tolkien. Similarily, necrons are simply "space tomb kings" dressed up as Terminators. The races' backstories evolved over time with each new edition and codex.

Nothing wrong with taking a good idea and evolving it in a new direction. I for one would love to see what they'd do with the jumping off point of space lizardmen.

AT-43.CO.UK wrote:

Kevin Nash wrote:
So if these new models are due to release in Jan 2011 that would imply a codex coming out prior to that yes?

Necron Codex late 2010?

That would make it the big December release and if this talk of Necrons being a risk for GW they would not release them as their Xmas release would they?

After reading this topic I'm now convinced that GW is run by SkyNet.

Why would the codex be released before the models? When he says they're due Jan 2011 I would presume that to be the codex release date as well, assuming it's not all bunk of course.

Aduro wrote:
1.) Change We'll Be Back into Feel No Pain. WBB is just an overly complicated rule that in the end has the same general effect as the MUCH simpler FNP. Yes, I'm sure "You" understand exactly how WBB works in all possible circumstances, but So Many people get the rule and all of it's interactions wrong So Often. Yes, FNP is a nerf to a couple unit's (mostly destroyers) durability from enemy shooting, but it's a buff to every unit's melee, as they'll get to make their attacks back after passing their saves, and melee is where we need the help.

2.) To further help Necrons in melee, without simply making them better at it, give all Necrons LD10, and an uber stubborn rule where they are Always and Forever LD10 and NOTHING can override or lower their LD to Anything other than LD10 for Any reason or purpose. OMG so Broken, right?! Keep reading...

3.) Phase Out. It's fluffy, but it really kills the army and the variety of units you can take as you constantly need to watch that Phase Out count. Instead put Phase Out on the Unit level, where if they fail a Moral Check, they Phase Out and the Unit is removed from the table, with no chance of coming back or saving, just gone. With the #2 change it'd be really hard to break `em, but when you do they suffer for it, and who wants to see robots running away in fear anyway?

1) I agree.

2+3) Your suggested changes wouldn't make it harder to break necrons in combat. It would just make it random. Hard implies effort put into it would yield a result. If there is no difference between beating a unit by 1 or by 10 in combat res, then it's random, since most any unit can beat necrons by 1. I think the phase out as it works now is a genious idea, since it adds meaningful alternatives to the players. It both matters in listbuilding and it matters when making choices during the game. And it helps to differentiate the necrons playstyle from the other armies out there. Phase out might need to adjust its values and what models can be counted for it, but it's a sound principle.

Platuan4th wrote:
1. Genestealers didn't originally have elongated heads(and still don't).

2. Genestealers weren't originally Tyranids in RT. They were aliens from the planet Yymgarl.

3. The first Tyranids(that were actually called Tyranids, anyway) were Gaunts NOT Genestealers.

Not saying I particularly disagree with you, just that your statement isn't the best proof.

I think their background in Space Hulk was more like the Alien films, you had Alien creatures that would lay their eggs in people and are totally instinctual killing machines that scuttle around space ship corridors. On the other hand Alien was ripped off from van Vogt's 'Voyage of the Space Beagle' for which the film's producers settled out of court.

A giant robot skelleton?

*cough*HumanReaper*cough*

I like the idea actually. Sounds lootable.

Mellon wrote:

Aduro wrote:
1.) Change We'll Be Back into Feel No Pain. WBB is just an overly complicated rule that in the end has the same general effect as the MUCH simpler FNP. Yes, I'm sure "You" understand exactly how WBB works in all possible circumstances, but So Many people get the rule and all of it's interactions wrong So Often. Yes, FNP is a nerf to a couple unit's (mostly destroyers) durability from enemy shooting, but it's a buff to every unit's melee, as they'll get to make their attacks back after passing their saves, and melee is where we need the help.

2.) To further help Necrons in melee, without simply making them better at it, give all Necrons LD10, and an uber stubborn rule where they are Always and Forever LD10 and NOTHING can override or lower their LD to Anything other than LD10 for Any reason or purpose. OMG so Broken, right?! Keep reading...

3.) Phase Out. It's fluffy, but it really kills the army and the variety of units you can take as you constantly need to watch that Phase Out count. Instead put Phase Out on the Unit level, where if they fail a Moral Check, they Phase Out and the Unit is removed from the table, with no chance of coming back or saving, just gone. With the #2 change it'd be really hard to break `em, but when you do they suffer for it, and who wants to see robots running away in fear anyway?

1) I agree.

2+3) Your suggested changes wouldn't make it harder to break necrons in combat. It would just make it random. Hard implies effort put into it would yield a result. If there is no difference between beating a unit by 1 or by 10 in combat res, then it's random, since most any unit can beat necrons by 1. I think the phase out as it works now is a genious idea, since it adds meaningful alternatives to the players. It both matters in listbuilding and it matters when making choices during the game. And it helps to differentiate the necrons playstyle from the other armies out there. Phase out might need to adjust its values and what models can be counted for it, but it's a sound principle.

I can't say I agree with that. Phase Out gives Necrons an alternate loss condition without giving them an alternate win condition to compensate. When taken with the effect it has to restrict an already very undiverse list, it tends to produce very boring armylists.
Anything that helps promote list diversity within a codex is good, as far as I'm concerned, and Phase Out does the opposite.

I'd rather they don't change WBB to FNP. I don't want my necrons surviving close combat with a squad of terminators long enough enough to get wiped to the man, I'd rather they all get knocked down then on my turn get back up and unload rapid fire on them.

Da Boss wrote:

I can't say I agree with that. Phase Out gives Necrons an alternate loss condition without giving them an alternate win condition to compensate. When taken with the effect it has to restrict an already very undiverse list, it tends to produce very boring armylists.
Anything that helps promote list diversity within a codex is good, as far as I'm concerned, and Phase Out does the opposite.

Good point. I was making the assumption that phase out could be part of a balanced codex. I was not talking about how the rule balances in todays codex considering other codexes and such. I guess I should have been clearer on that. For example I think it could be quite allright that a codex has nearly unharmable tanks, but the phaseout makes it so you don't really need to harm them to beat them. If a lot of the different unit types will be counted towards the phase out number, there will be a lot of variation available. And of course I imagine the phase out rule should be taken into account when the codex is designed, rather than being slappen on afterwards. In theory: Necrons gain one loss-condition in compensation for having a bit easier to avoid the other loss-conditions. In a good application it adds meaningful choice to the necron player, anti phase-out units or killing units. As most 40k armies have to choose between scoring units or killing units.

"Sigh" Necrons , why do I hate them so much ? hmm. All the little kids " Mummy buy me the new necrons " arghh no please dont :( . I dont mind really new minitures are always good to stare and and go " ooo" at.

Just wait, all the old Necron players from 3E will be called bandwagoners when the release comes out. The ultimate irony, people that played an army during it's shadow of glory era called cheesers when it's finally updated and damn good.

Another important question is miniature quality. Will GW assign the A-team or the B-team (see Beastmen)?

gorgon wrote:Another important question is miniature quality. Will GW assign the A-team or the B-team (see Beastmen)?

Plan on the B team, and hope for the A team.

Got to be easy to sculpt non-organic races such as Crons. I would expect nothing less than Ravener quality

EDIT - Sorry, easier

Please Please let it be the A team

LEEQAEX wrote:"Sigh" Necrons , why do I hate them so much ? hmm. All the little kids " Mummy buy me the new necrons " arghh no please dont :( . I dont mind really new minitures are always good to stare and and go " ooo" at.

I think you must be confusing Necrons with Space Marines.



On topic, I really hope we get a release soon. IF GW keeps following this pattern with releases and what not, I would hope it is packed chock full of awesomeness, like the recent Dexs'

I hope Phil Kelly is the writer, I've loved every single one of his Codices.


Anyone Else have a Preference for writers?

What my Necron playing friend really wants is more options for the troops. Like, for example, a "Sargent" or equal for the warrior squads, or more customize-ability for the Lord.

Lemming eater wrote:Please Please let it be the A team

Yeah, because we need BA Baracus!




"I pity da fool!"

gorgon wrote:Another important question is miniature quality. Will GW assign the A-team or the B-team (see Beastmen)?

Not seeing the point? Are the Beastmen bad? They look pretty tight to me(though I don't play Fantasy).

Regardless the Necrons simply need some sprue additions like plastic claws to convert Warrriors to Flayed Ones, re arrange Destroyer Parts/make Immortal Arms/legs for Destroyers, and use CAD to design the New heavy units(Necromancers, Spyders, etc...). The only real sculpt that needs to be done are new Lords, Plastic Pariahs(or good metal ones), and the new Essence of the C'tan models.

i just hope that we still keep warriors a uniform squad, they are the mass not some customizable commandos

but a highly customizable elite squad could be cool

Well they do bounce back and forth from SM to non space marine in releases. BAngels are out april, so a non space marine release at this supposed time isn't out of question, I have doubts though.

This rumor was some guys first post on warseer, i hardly doubt any of it is true.

I have yet to see any of the known "insiders" confirm or deny any of this information. We know that a writer/designer was assigned last year, and we know to not be surprised to see them in the next 12 months. So minor leaks such as these are right on par with other Codex releases.