Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Pen, paper and a Bondsman No. 7.

excel or pen and paper
my friend gets really penickity and makes fething pie charts to show his troop/elite/hq/etc points ratios

Whats Lone Wolfs army builder!?

Pen and Paper is the only way! The real way, and the best way. It should be a personal thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just had a look there to see what this army builder list building thing is all about and tried it and its terrible.

Really awkward, fiddley, some of the wargear options were missing and the printable versions dont look good.

Pen and Paper wins the day!

Paper and pencil usually, but I use the Forge if I'm feeling lazy.

As a long time army builder user, I can say that all of the criticism here is completely accurate.

They sell you this wonky outdated license that expires if you want support, and while your product will function beyond that, quit supporting their old product as soon as they move to a new version. Add to that the fact that they don't even maintain the data files; the USERS have to take it upon themselves to create the data files. They're really just selling you a glorified spread-sheet. For the money it costs, you should get SOME level of actual company support for the datafiles.

To make matters even worse with Lone Wolf's product, GW struck a deal with them to not even allow data files from new codex's for at least 3 months, if I recall correctly. For example, when the new Codex Space Marines came out, it took me 4 months of pen and papering it before I could even download the datafile, and that file was so full of errors (it is a user generated product after all) that I almost gave up on it. Unfortunately, no one has written anything better yet, so this is what we're stuck with.

Someone, please save us from this horrible product; I promise you'll get my money!!!

Always use word.

Those army builders are worthless, just another way for them to get money off you.

But I guess some people just can't do simple math?

Pen and paper every time. Its the only thing i ever have close when i finally feel like writing my list.

grayspark wrote:
But I guess some people just can't do simple math?

There's no need to be insulting.

It has little to do with simple math, and lots to do with the ability to make fairly involved changes rapidly, without having to keep flipping back and forth in the books, while also having some level of validation performed for you so you don't miss anything.

Microsoft Word + Calculator when needed.. Or well, most of the time as I'm lazy. =P

Good Old Skool Classic Pen and Paper.

I made a template in Quark, then I can just copy + paste and then fill in the text. It looks fairly nice imo.

Just had some nice insights with this poll... learnt about alice40k, Lone Wolf's Army Builder...

Some nice tools, but...

I still prefer my pen & paper!!!

Pen and paper for friendly games. Tournaments or competitive games I use the Army Builder and print it out.

Pen and paper low tech style.

Pen + Paper, spread out where it will inconvenience the most amount of people.

Paper and pen is old school and i think alot more personal, not to mention cheaper.

Pen and paper, with several lists crammed into the tinyest space, then i keep on until ive narrowed it down to 1 or 2 new lists and transfer them to a new piece of paper, which eventually gets clogged up with new list ideas... meh... i get bored on the bus.

grayspark wrote:Always use word.

Those army builders are worthless, just another way for them to get money off you.

But I guess some people just can't do simple math?

Every point in that except the fact that you use word I would disagree with....

The army list builder I use is fast, easy, and free. Thus, it doesn't take money from me.

I also know far more than simple math, and I use a list builder because it is fast, and easy to make changes to your list quickly, and you don't have to constantly look up point values!

Lonewolf mostly to verify.
Pen and paper for compiling.

I use Lone Wolf's Army Builder, worth every cent and then some more.

It turns Army Building from an hour of annoyance to 5 mins of epic win.

grayspark wrote:Always use word.

Those army builders are worthless, just another way for them to get money off you.

But I guess some people just can't do simple math?

They're nice because no one is going to accuse you of fudging numbers then insisting on wasting twenty minutes looking up all the point costs in your army.

Luco wrote:

grayspark wrote:Always use word.

Those army builders are worthless, just another way for them to get money off you.

But I guess some people just can't do simple math?

They're nice because no one is going to accuse you of fudging numbers then insisting on wasting twenty minutes looking up all the point costs in your army.

You know what the funniest part of graysparks post was?

Where he tells people to use a $280 program instead of OpenOffice, which is both Legally Free and actually better, then accuses the army builder programs as "worthless" and "just another way for them to get money off you."

All I can say is...

Army builder is nice, I would much rather use that...

Alas! I will be stuck quadruple checking my math before the tournament.

Print it up on word.

Pen and paper mostly. Old school. Simple arithmetic is not something I need a calculator for.

When I have time, and I'm at home, I'll pull up AB and do it (when I'm at my club, I don't have a computer with me - but the codex and notepaper do fine).

If I'm doing the validation of tourney lists, I'll use AB in conjunction with the relevant codex to check on legality of units and whether or not points are accurate.

I also make up the lists according to what models I have and what they are armed with.

[I do have over 100 marines, with multiples of special weapons, and at least 3 of each heavy weapon, and 'sgt' models with various gear, so my squads ARE all WYSIWYG.
If I don't have the model (or suitable replacement) then I don't use it. I don't proxy weapons as other weapons. Vehicles may be scratchbuilds, but the relevant options are included and they ARE representative]

Gwar! wrote:

Luco wrote:

grayspark wrote:Always use word.

Those army builders are worthless, just another way for them to get money off you.

But I guess some people just can't do simple math?

They're nice because no one is going to accuse you of fudging numbers then insisting on wasting twenty minutes looking up all the point costs in your army.

You know what the funniest part of graysparks post was?

Where he tells people to use a $280 program instead of OpenOffice, which is both Legally Free and actually better, then accuses the army builder programs as "worthless" and "just another way for them to get money off you."

All I can say is...

lol! Perhaps he has an old computer that had it free? I miss those days.

I would love Armybuilder...but I have a Mac and its not worth running an emulator......Now...what would be REALLY cool would be ArmyBuilder for Iphone/Ipad or droid....

YetiSchool wrote:I would love Armybuilder...but I have a Mac and its not worth running an emulator......Now...what would be REALLY cool would be ArmyBuilder for Iphone/Ipad or droid....

Use Wine. Works fine for me on Linux.

On a related note....

Wondering if anyone does what I do... Designate models for each unit, to a set point cost, then choose which units to use based on how many points for the game?

@ helgrenze :

My approach is quite the same : I model the minis according to the codex options, [b]then[/] calculate the cost point of their unit, then, as you do,

helgrenze wrote: choose which units to use based on how many points for the game

...

Not very cost- or game- efficient, since most of the time I end up modelling options that are very costly and not so powerful in game terms... But I like highly customized units anyway, so...

Pen and paper when I'm brainstorming ideas or trying to get the main parts of the army down.

Army Builder to produce the final list. Very handy for when I'm tweaking a list. ("If I drop the pintle mounted storm bolters from all the Rhinos, can I afford that Lascannon?", stuff like that)