Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've seen alot of Matt Ward hate (deservedly so), and it got me thinking. What do you think was the darkest moment in 40k fluff? Black Library stuff counts as well.

Blud angel Bromance with the Crons.

Grey Templar wrote:Blud angel Bromance with the Crons.

Yup, by a landslide.

I've been getting a lot of use out of this motivational recently

at least the GKs killing the SoB made some sense

Harriticus wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Blud angel Bromance with the Crons.

Yup, by a landslide.

Indeed, nothing comes close.

Somehow, In my heart, I hoped something non-ward related would come up. I am a fool.

do you guys remember the worst non-ward related fluff ever?

hmmm,

GOTO!!!!!

Grey Templar wrote:Blud angel Bromance with the Crons.

Is that in the BA codex? I didn't read the fluff in there yet.

My vote is for 7 Space Marines and Fulgrim fighting off an Eldar Warhost led by an Avatar and Eldrad Ulthran then only losing 2 Marines.

You might be thinking, "but Fulgrim was a Primarch", except laid on the ground laughing the entire battle after killing 2 guys (one Wraithlord and Avatar). And the Wraithlord killed the 2 Marines. So zero other casualties caused by the Eldar.

Or that whole "all eldar are chaos/dark eldar" Goto-ism.

BUT GOTO IS WARD!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Goto is pretty awful.

I remember reading something by him (can't member wut) in which he assumed Terminator armor gave you the gift of flight.

yup. goto.

Anung Un Rama wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Blud angel Bromance with the Crons.

Is that in the BA codex? I didn't read the fluff in there yet.

it's in the Log of events where it gives the dates.


it's on the upper left somewhere. just a little blurb.

Grey Templar wrote:

Anung Un Rama wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Blud angel Bromance with the Crons.

Is that in the BA codex? I didn't read the fluff in there yet.

it's in the Log of events where it gives the dates.

it's on the upper left somewhere. just a little blurb.

Wow. They really team-up with Necrons. Can somebody please fire that guy.

Out of a cannon.

Termies flipping off of Rhinos, and SM shooting Multilazors.

He is become Goto, destroyer of fluff.

Chowderhead wrote:Termies flipping off of Rhinos, and SM shooting Multilazors.

He is become Goto, destroyer of fluff.

+1 LOL

Anung Un Rama wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Anung Un Rama wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Blud angel Bromance with the Crons.

Is that in the BA codex? I didn't read the fluff in there yet.

it's in the Log of events where it gives the dates.

it's on the upper left somewhere. just a little blurb.

Wow. They really team-up with Necrons. Can somebody please fire that guy.

Out of a cannon.

well, it was more of they stopped attacking each other to focus on the Tyranids.

they COULD have done that without ever actually fighting back to back and side to side.


if they had left out the Impromtu alliance line it would have been just fine.

I would say the GK's doing a service to Khorne by killing the SoB in the GK dex is a low point of fluff for me. Its just ridiculous.

O

DarknessEternal wrote:My vote is for 7 Space Marines and Fulgrim fighting off an Eldar Warhost led by an Avatar and Eldrad Ulthran then only losing 2 Marines.

You might be thinking, "but Fulgrim was a Primarch", except laid on the ground laughing the entire battle after killing 2 guys (one Wraithlord and Avatar). And the Wraithlord killed the 2 Marines. So zero other casualties caused by the Eldar.

Or that whole "all eldar are chaos/dark eldar" Goto-ism.

Eldar had some bad dice rolls is all. They will have better luck next time.

Tho I'm sure Fulgrim was laughing because he's cheatin' bastard with his loaded dice n that.

Blood Angels + Necros vs Tyranids? M.Ward sounds like the Micheal Bay of 40k

DarknessEternal wrote:My vote is for 7 Space Marines and Fulgrim fighting off an Eldar Warhost led by an Avatar and Eldrad Ulthran then only losing 2 Marines.

You might be thinking, "but Fulgrim was a Primarch", except laid on the ground laughing the entire battle after killing 2 guys (one Wraithlord and Avatar). And the Wraithlord killed the 2 Marines. So zero other casualties caused by the Eldar.

Or that whole "all eldar are chaos/dark eldar" Goto-ism.

This is how Eldar defeat spacemarines

hahaha! Where'd you find that?

Grey Templar wrote:
well, it was more of they stopped attacking each other to focus on the Tyranids.

they COULD have done that without ever actually fighting back to back and side to side.


if they had left out the Impromtu alliance line it would have been just fine.

It's not actually that bad, but as is the way with this kind of thing it has gained gravitas with each telling:

955.M41 The Gehenna Campaign

Commander Dante and the 3rd Company battle against the Necron Legions of the Silent King amidst the dusty wastes of Gehenna. For three weeks, neither side can seize the upper hand, with Dante's tactical brilliance stretched to it's limits in countering the time-space manipulations of the Silent King. The stalemate is broken only when a Tyranid splinter fleet enters orbit, forcing the two armies to break off hostilities and fight the common foe. The impromptu alliance proves to be the Tyranids undoing. Following the final battle at Devil's Crag, Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the blood angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one.

My least favorite bit is the bit that FW felt that had to add concening the Land Raider and Land Speeder.

You would think you might know why they are named such. Because they, you know, operate on Land and such like. No! They were created by someone called 'Arkhan Land'
Either a bit of humour that slightly missed the mark, or the laziest piece of background ever, done by the work experience boy at 4.45 on a Friday afternoon.

I also hate the whole reason for Horus turning to Chaos; a result of him being stabbed by a magic sword. The whole reason for the destruction of the Emperor and his armies, the creation of the entire setting of the 40k universe, and ultimately the destruction of the human race. And why did it happen? Because 'a wizard did it'. I can make a much more in depth reason of why I think this is the biggest failing in GW's history of writing background, but I don't want to bore people with it (and kill the thread, which inevitably happens )

Pacific wrote:
I also hate the whole reason for Horus turning to Chaos; a result of him being stabbed by a magic sword.

The two are only barely related. Horus wanted to be in charge because the Emperor is a bad father. He also happened to be near death at the time.

I knew I shouldn't have written that comment, as I don't have time to write it out in full. Oh well, the crying baby can wait (joke).

The point being, we were treated to very little internal monologue from Horus, very little that touched upon why he actually thought he could do a better job than the Emperor. There was the briefest mention of the Marines worrying about what would happen to them when there job was done, of an Imperium run by petty bureaucrats. But all in all it was barely touched upon. So, we were expected to believe that Horus was turning his back on 200 years of warfare, of fighting alongside his father and being party to his plans, of having that huge responsibility of taking that huge burden on his own shoulders. Not only that, but to do the unthinkable - to destroy his own brothers and progeny, both inside and outside the Legion, to destroy the very Imperium he had helped to create.

He threw all of that away, and decided he could do a better job. And why? There was just not enough rational causality in Horus' decisions, not enough there to convince why he was taking this utterly insane course of actions, and was prepared to destroy everything he had helped to create. And so, the writer turned instead to the 'get out of jail free card', and quite possibly the worst plot device other than 'and then they woke up': 'a wizard did it'. Horus wasn't of rational mind, because he had been stabbed by a magic sword. Thus, there is no recourse to any kind of rational cause and effect in Horus' decision making. Horus emerges from the temple with dark circles around his eyes, and then sets about the business of killing his progeny and ripping the Imperium in half. How much more emotive, how much more powerful it might have been if we had been privy to Horus' own internal monologues about what he was doing? About how he agonised over the path he was taking, but knew that is was necessary to save mankind? Instead, his character is reduced to that of a two-dimensional comic book character, cackling while he plots the destruction of Terra.

To be honest I think it was by far the biggest let-down in the Horus Heresy series. We have seen why the other Primarchs fell; McNeil did a far more convincing job with both Fulgrim and Magnus in A Thousand Sons, and makes me wish he had come to False Gods later on, and presumably away from a strict word-count limit or deadline. So too ADB's handling of Lorgar, whose character was padded out with admirable aplomb. All of the traitor Primarchs were quite tragic characters, whose flawed decision making lead to their downfall. But the biggest one, the grand-daddy of them all and the reason why the 40k universe actually exists in the way that it does has been almost completely forgotten about - almost completely skated over, and what's even more puzzling is how everyone seems to have ignored what could have potentially been one of the most epic and emotional story arcs ever committed to print in the history of Games Workshop.

Remember when the Heresy was first written about, there was talk of the Heresy itself being based upon Milton's Paradise Lost. About how Satan decided that, hey, perhaps it is better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven. But, all of the meat of that discussion, of philosophical argument and of rationalising, has been almost completely omitted from the 40k re-telling of that tale.

Just my own thoughts on this of course, and sorry to go off on one a bit!

I'd have to say that the GK codex entry where they kill SoB in order to survive is far worse than Crons with Blood Angels. Its obvious GW wants to change how the Necrons act and don't wish to portray them as the soulless machines we know them to be now. The Gk's killing SoB was pointless and just continues to prove that GW loves killing Sisters for no reason. =\

In the DE old codex there was a special character called kruellagh the vile. Her fluff was nothing special, and I know GW does a lot of this suggestive naming, but the fact that they named her as an allusion to a Disney character is just upsetting.

Dakkite Smuffles uses her model as Lady Malles

Red Comet wrote:I'd have to say that the GK codex entry where they kill SoB in order to survive is far worse than Crons with Blood Angels. Its obvious GW wants to change how the Necrons act and don't wish to portray them as the soulless machines we know them to be now. The Gk's killing SoB was pointless and just continues to prove that GW loves killing Sisters for no reason. =\

Did you actually read it? Because it is pretty clear about why they did it and what was happening.

Spoiler: They did it because if they did not they would have been consumed by the Bloodtide. Not to mention that it says right before that that most of the sisters are immediately corrupted and those that aren't are slaughtered. Then it goes on to say that after they turn their blades on the remainder they use their sacred blood in combination with other elements to anoint and protect themselves. A far cry from the 'pointless' act that you call out.

If you read the rest of the Codex, one of the themes is that the GK / Inquisition will do anything to stop Daemonic infestations and succeed.

Hell, on the next column of that page, an Inquisitor declares Exterminatus on a world with a demi-brotherhood of GK, 12+ regiments of guard, 2 companies of Silver Skulls, marines from the Crimson Paladins, Legion of Night and Eldar from Alaitoc because he disagreed with another Inquisitor's interest in an artifact. Killing all but a few hundred.

On the page before that Stern destroys all the evacuation shuttles from a planet because there is a chance that a Changeling was onboard, killing hundreds of thousands.

They will do anything. Not to mention that I'm sure if you were to ask the Sisters, they would have been okay with it, as the GKs were the only hope to stop the Daemonic infestation as the sisters had already failed and Martyrdom is kind of their thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
When it comes down to it, what are the lives of a few Sisters of Battle compared to the billions of lives that will be lost if Daemons gain a hold on a world?

"Let's murder some space nuns and defile their corpses and take a bath in their entrails! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! Whoops, sorry, FOR THE EMPEROR!!"

There is no reason for this. None. The argument about "needing the blood for the Bloodtide" doesn't hold water. Why do they need to kill the Sisters? Don't relatively minor (and treatable) wounds also bleed?

Dante Brofists A Necron is also close.

There are plenty of things I could argue are close to being that bad when you analyse the metastory of 40K background, but those two are jaw-dropping even on a first reading.