Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I think some people here are pulling popularity rankings out of thin air, or imagining that their particular group of friends is indicative of all gamers.

I think it's bizarre to assume that GW won't be guided in some way by how well a complete over haul works on a pre-existing army. There really hasn't been something comparable to this since 3rd edition Orks.

BrassScorpion wrote:Chaos Marines are currently the worst performing 40K range in terms of sales.

Really? Hmm... I wonder why...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

plastictrees wrote:There really hasn't been something comparable to this since 3rd edition Orks.

I'd say this is bigger than even that. Orks were already a staple of 40K. DE... aren't. No matter how long they've been around for, they're the army that was sort of always there, but no one ever really played them and their model range completely sucked. Orks were at least fun before their large transformation.

This will be bigger, and I do hope it works for the sake of 40K as a whole.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:Chaos Marines are currently the worst performing 40K range in terms of sales.

Really? Hmm... I wonder why...

Because a lot of the range is a mix of plastic and metal? They're still a popular army, it may just not always be built using solely Chaos kits.

BrassScorpion wrote:Chaos Marines are currently the worst performing 40K range in terms of sales.

Chaos Marines currently don't even out-sell Dark Eldars? Really?


SALT!!!

How the different lines sell in relation to each other is something that GW tracks and shares with their retail staff and while numbers and full details are confidential I have had people share those kinds of general tidbits with me. I was a bit surprised too, after all Chaos is a main driving story element in 40K and at times has been a huge seller. Since 2007 most of the army is plastic, making it even more accessible. But it has fallen off in sales dramatically over the last year or two. Of course, Chaos Marines have more competition now that Daemons are separate and some of the newer Codex books are much more characterful. I'm sure that all has a lot to do with it, plus the new life given to other really popular armies over the past year or so like Space Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Tyranids.

As for relation to Dark Eldar, I'm speaking strictly about US sales and in-store. In the US, unlike the rest of the globe, Dark Eldar are direct only.

Because the current codex sucks for Chaos, that's why.

Sunday.............

BrassScorpion wrote:... and some of the newer Codex books are much more characterful.

Understatement of the year. All years.

I can't help but think Japanese style stuff when I look at the picture of the Incubi...


When I look at my neatly painted older model army that I built this year (Yes despite the immense hate of the models that most people have, I like 'em.) I can't help but wonder if they'll be made redundant or the old stuff will look way too different next to the collection I have. I'm far more excited about the prospect of a new codex, is there any others in the same position?

InventionThirteen wrote:I can't help but think Japanese style stuff when I look at the picture of the Incubi...


When I look at my neatly painted older model army that I built this year (Yes despite the immense hate of the models that most people have, I like 'em.) I can't help but wonder if they'll be made redundant or the old stuff will look way too different next to the collection I have. I'm far more excited about the prospect of a new codex, is there any others in the same position?

Your old stuff will look way too different next to the upcoming stuff, but provided the weapons, etc don't change too much you shouldn't have to redo anything unless you just want better looking models.

Kanluwen wrote:

InventionThirteen wrote:I can't help but think Japanese style stuff when I look at the picture of the Incubi...


When I look at my neatly painted older model army that I built this year (Yes despite the immense hate of the models that most people have, I like 'em.) I can't help but wonder if they'll be made redundant or the old stuff will look way too different next to the collection I have. I'm far more excited about the prospect of a new codex, is there any others in the same position?

Your old stuff will look way too different next to the upcoming stuff, but provided the weapons, etc don't change too much you shouldn't have to redo anything unless you just want better looking models.

This is okay, my hopes are that they are still usable with the new codex, if not, I'll simply use the "count as" house rule

This will be an auspicious release for the Dark Eldar, everyone should all out buy, buy, buy or kiss the DE bye, bye, bye.

I rather think that I will kiss them bye bye than kiss ass

Pael wrote:This will be an auspicious release for the Dark Eldar, everyone should all out buy, buy, buy or kiss the DE bye, bye, bye.

Yes... for the people who like playing "evil" armies anyway (in quotes because yes, I know grimdark blah blah blah). I wonder how many people who like the models can commit to buying them in this economy though?

I think Dark Eldar will sell well enough. I think from GW's side they will see moderate sales drawn out over a longer than normal length of time. People will still buy but that they won't buy as much in one go.

DE will be hot for several months due to the new release and new models. The question will be if they can mainain a good level of sales well after the new release.

whitedragon wrote:Because the current codex sucks for Chaos, that's why.

it doesn't suck. it's got a nice art section, decent fluff, and a few power builds that still win. the problem is that its 4th edition bland in its most pure form (along with DA) with very little variety compared with the previous overpowered codex.

If I hadn't bought a bunch of Space Marines as a kid I'd pick CSM today.

I was thinking about doing them as my next 40k army, but then I thought I'd raise some eyebrows, what with them being SM still...

But I want a CC-orientated army!

When is the next Chaos codex btw?

If the models are good (and really, they will be!) AND they sell well, it will bode well for more Xenos races, I'd think.

I know it will be hard for me to NOT at least start a small force once these are released!

BrassScorpion wrote:How the different lines sell in relation to each other is something that GW tracks and shares with their retail staff and while numbers and full details are confidential I have had people share those kinds of general tidbits with me. I was a bit surprised too, after all Chaos is a main driving story element in 40K and at times has been a huge seller. Since 2007 most of the army is plastic, making it even more accessible. But it has fallen off in sales dramatically over the last year or two. Of course, Chaos Marines have more competition now that Daemons are separate and some of the newer Codex books are much more characterful. I'm sure that all has a lot to do with it, plus the new life given to other really popular armies over the past year or so like Space Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Tyranids.

As for relation to Dark Eldar, I'm speaking strictly about US sales and in-store. In the US, unlike the rest of the globe, Dark Eldar are direct only.

Rubbish I'm afraid.

Used to work for them, and whilst the system is indeed very clever, any 'evidence' you'd have gathered would likely be anecdotal at best. Some stores shift lots of Fantasy, other are predominantly 40k. But in my experience (which is first hand) Chaos sell pretty damned well. Certainly more than Necrons, Tau, and even Eldar.

Fishboy wrote:DE will be hot for several months due to the new release and new models. The question will be if they can mainain a good level of sales well after the new release.

Well, when IG were released, they were ridiculously overpowered. Space Wolves managed to top out the ridiculousness of IG in terms of power level.

If GW wants DE to explode in sales, then they will make the codex the rock to the Space Wolf and IG scissors, and it will beat the crap out of them. Then everyone and their mother will go play DE because they're the best army available.

I think Chaos Space Marines do poorly mostly because all the effort that should have gone into improving their models and rules, instead went to Chaos Daemons. New models drive sales, since most everyone who wanted these models has them. Halfassed effort begets halfassed sales. What was released was on par with the second wave other armies have had. This obviously isn't what's happening with DE.

The art for DE look awesome and the first picture looks awesome. It will take something really stupid to ruin them.

I do love how people make their statements online.

Define 'good level of sales'. Do you compare to Space Marines, or to Battle Fleet Gothic? What is this mystical benchmark of good level of sales?

You are aware that a successful launch goes way beyond just the army getting the spit and polish yes? Other players might want to alter their list, getting say, a new unit of Terminators, or going for large mobs or broods of stuff to shoot them up?

It's an Arms Race man. Someone gets new toys and new strengths, forcing their opponents to adapt.

SW and IG are not the most powerful codexes. They're not even close to OP. They are just very solid 5th edition codexes. The only 5th edition codex that doesn't stand up perfectly with the others is the Nids because of the JotWW from SW's. Even Orks (late 4th edition codex partially done for 5th) are a stand up codex. 5th edition is the most balanced 40k has ever been.

I think DE will sell well continuously as long as they do 3 things:

1) Great models (probably done)
2) Parts fit regular Eldar (hopefully done)
3) Variety of builds that work in 5th edition (phil kelly is known for this)

Reasons being that great models obviously draw people in. Duality on the parts increases sales for conversion and such and will actually help boost Eldar sales as well. And lastly it's the people that like to try new things and still be competitive so that they wind up building a larger and larger army over time. If all of these things happen look to see them holding strong as a xenos seller.

@Mr. Mystery

He was talking about US sales. Not British. And they do share that information with their managers here. And from what I've heard Brass Scorpion is pretty close to right in regards to 40k.

Mr Mystery wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:How the different lines sell in relation to each other is something that GW tracks and shares with their retail staff and while numbers and full details are confidential I have had people share those kinds of general tidbits with me. I was a bit surprised too, after all Chaos is a main driving story element in 40K and at times has been a huge seller. Since 2007 most of the army is plastic, making it even more accessible. But it has fallen off in sales dramatically over the last year or two. Of course, Chaos Marines have more competition now that Daemons are separate and some of the newer Codex books are much more characterful. I'm sure that all has a lot to do with it, plus the new life given to other really popular armies over the past year or so like Space Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Tyranids.

As for relation to Dark Eldar, I'm speaking strictly about US sales and in-store. In the US, unlike the rest of the globe, Dark Eldar are direct only.

Rubbish I'm afraid.

Used to work for them, and whilst the system is indeed very clever, any 'evidence' you'd have gathered would likely be anecdotal at best. Some stores shift lots of Fantasy, other are predominantly 40k. But in my experience (which is first hand) Chaos sell pretty damned well. Certainly more than Necrons, Tau, and even Eldar.

Not wanting to be 'that guy' but you do know after the Necron hoax you've lost all credibility as an information source of any sort now.

Couldn't give a monkies mate.

First Hand information beats Second or Third hand, well, hands down!

Hulksmash wrote:SW and IG are not the most powerful codexes. They're not even close to OP. They are just very solid 5th edition codexes. The only 5th edition codex that doesn't stand up perfectly with the others is the Nids because of the JotWW from SW's. Even Orks (late 4th edition codex partially done for 5th) are a stand up codex. 5th edition is the most balanced 40k has ever been.

I think DE will sell well continuously as long as they do 3 things:

1) Great models (probably done)
2) Parts fit regular Eldar (hopefully done)
3) Variety of builds that work in 5th edition (phil kelly is known for this)

Reasons being that great models obviously draw people in. Duality on the parts increases sales for conversion and such and will actually help boost Eldar sales as well. And lastly it's the people that like to try new things and still be competitive so that they wind up building a larger and larger army over time. If all of these things happen look to see them holding strong as a xenos seller.

I don't agree necessarily on JoWW making Nids a bad codex, I feel they are just as solid as IG and the Marine variants, but I agree with everything else.

Jaws of the World Wolf only sting specific Tyranid Lists, such as those with lots of big gribblies in it. Me, I run a mixed horde, and do pretty well.

@Bhsman

Never said there were a bad codex. Just that didn't stand up perfectly with the others due to that single power. Since that power negatively affects 2 of the better bugs in the list quite nastily and a 3rd who most people don't use (the carnie). I still think they are a solid codex and just finished up my list which I think will do quite well in the next few monts of RTT's

Hulksmash wrote:SW and IG are not the most powerful codexes. They're not even close to OP. They are just very solid 5th edition codexes. The only 5th edition codex that doesn't stand up perfectly with the others is the Nids because of the JotWW from SW's. Even Orks (late 4th edition codex partially done for 5th) are a stand up codex. 5th edition is the most balanced 40k has ever been.

QFT.

If someone thinks SW are bad now, they either didn't play 2nd edition or don't remember it, LOL. I'm looking at you, 5 Wolf Guard Terminators with Assault Cannons. And even 2nd ed SW were topped in ridiculousness by 2nd ed. Eldar.

I think 5th edition is in a very good place overall. And (getting this back on topic) with DE almost here, DH/GK coming soon and WH apparently on the agenda, it's looking like GW will actually meet its promise to update all the remaining 3rd ed. codices before 6th ed arrives. The game certainly has its flaws, but I feel like we're in a kind of a Silver Age for 40K and hope the game's only tweaked for 6th instead of overhauled. Jervis's admission that major overhauls sell more stuff has me nervous, though.

Probably best to live in the moment and enjoy these releases and games while they last.

Kurgash wrote: Not wanting to be 'that guy' but you do know after the Necron hoax you've lost all credibility as an information source of any sort now.

Credibility is one of those things that can wane at one moment, and then wax a few days later.