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Well to celebrate 25 years of 40k, they're gonna celebrate 25 years of money printers

Formosa wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I for one think BT have stolen alot of the thunder that DA should have had, DA were the original Space knights, all the effort that went into making BT should have gone into a conbined codex (for DA and BT), look at sword brethen for example, if you got rid of BT from everyones memory and said "Sword brethren are a DA unit) no one would bat an eyelid.

For the life of me I cannot understand this thinking, even since second edition, sure the fluff calls them knights, and they used to do it back before the Lion left to become a primarch of the Emporer,.But they are one of the most shooty of the entire chapters now, the whole "Sword Brethren" for DA would just be foolish to begin with, BT makes for a far more effective melee version of the crusading paladins on foot, while DA are those that think, use horses, and typically are more medieval with their codes, laws, and rules rather than PRAY MAIM, BURN PRAY MAIM BURN

Hell, one of their 2nd edition rules was Intractable, preventing them from moving or assaulting, but gaining stubborn (Even their vehicles, with the exception of ravenwing)

Though I would love to see a dedicated melee ravenwing unit that could count as "knights"

and some new units, like the inner circle knights

Why would this happen, the Inner circle isn't exactly some knights errant that goes hunting, they are made up of masters, grandmasters, and interrogator chaplins, aka, the big leaders. It'd be like a chapter master having additional chapter masters in a command squad. (Though to be honest, it'd be cool to have a retinue made up of badasses like that)

inner circle knights dont have to be from the inner circle, they may be applicants being tested and sent to dangerous tasks and then if they survive they are inducted, they represent the inner circle.
now see how crap that reasoning is i just gave, now apply the same to thunderwolves, sanguanary guard...blood talons etc.
just because is hasn't been in the codex before does not mean it wont in the future.

im curious to know what second ed DA book you have read, as from what your saying thats 3rd, BT didnt really have a thing in 2nd, so yeah, I do think a conbined codex "knights" would have been better, as like it or not, they DO share
alot of the same themes

Thunderwolves were mentioned in the fluff before (Even if the concept is still stupid), blood angels have had sanguinary guard fluffwise, alongside sanguinary priests.
You're asking for something that literally has not been in the fluff at all.

Neither were the Sword Brethren for the Black Templars or any number of other unit entries added over the past few years.


Dark Angels are quite likely going to get new units. Why?

Because, putting it bluntly, there isn't all that much there right now that makes them interesting or unique.

By the by: the Inner Circle has been in the fluff of the Dark Angels for a long time. The only thing it has never had is any form of tabletop representation--but that happens with tons of armies and their organizational matters.

Kanluwen wrote:Dark Angels are quite likely going to get new units.

Are there any doubts? new update, new chance to sell a new army
it NEEDS new units to help push.

Cant be more obvious.

Zweischneid wrote:

Cyrax wrote:
DA codices are not known for having things from other codices. For God's sake, we can't even keep what is our own.

Not sure what you are talking about. Infact, when Codex Angels of Death was originally published, they poached ALOT of stuff that was previously exclusive to other books. Say, Landspeeders, Attack Bikes or Veteran Squads for example. Clearly, Dark Angels should give them back. Oh, and Terminator Armour too. They were published first not in a Dark Angel book, so they should rightfully be exclusive to the Codex that published them first.

So space wolves eh? First 2nd edition codex, I don't know if the DA will like that very much. =o]

By the by: the Inner Circle has been in the fluff of the Dark Angels for a long time. The only thing it has never had is any form of tabletop representation--but that happens with tons of armies and their organizational matte

All of the SC's are masters (Sammael, Belial) /grandmasters (Ezekial)/ and supreme grandmaster (Azrael)

Each time you take an interrogator Chaplain, Librarian, or company master (captain), you are giving tabletop representation to the Inner circle.

Though I'll be honest, I really wouldn't mind being able to make them retinue choices or something fancy, it's just weird that everyone says they aren't represented. When they are being represented each time you take an HQ of most calibers (except the standard Chaplain)

Inner Circle Knights would basically be something along the lines of UM Honor Guard or Sang Guard. Fancy dudes in fancy armor with fancy weapons. I'd expect a deathwing plastic box and new units for ravenwing and greenwing to set them apart along with new rules. Inner Circle Knights for greenwing and probably jetbikes for ravenwing. Other than that we may get cheaper plasma, chaplain upgrade characters, mortis dread or at least rifle dreads, new psychic powers, a couple army wide special rules and updated points costs. Toss in Fallen somehow if they're feeling really crazy.

I don't have any sources but with DA it's almost too obvious what would probably be included in a new dex.

Kanluwen wrote:...Dark Angels are quite likely going to get new units. Why?

Because, putting it bluntly, there isn't all that much there right now that makes them interesting or unique.

By the by: the Inner Circle has been in the fluff of the Dark Angels for a long time. The only thing it has never had is any form of tabletop representation--but that happens with tons of armies and their organizational matters.

Sure Inner Circle has been represented: Azreal, Beliel, Ezekiel, Asmodai, Sammael...I'd gamble on Namaan but I don't remember his fluff. As for a unit of IC Knights, for me they would really have to represent some badasses to even be on the table. But I couldn't image Inner Circle guys dieing in droves like they would if they saw regular play. Character models, sparsely seen for the Inner Circle Knights is working for me now. But I'm not opposed to something new.

But this is what's got me concerned. Everyone's talking release schedules or citing some other big internet release source. Chaos first, then 6th, then DA, etc etc all the way till 3rd quarter. I'm not seeing room for a regular SM codex and given from 3rd ed forward the SM codex was always one of the first to get released I'm fearing that the DA codex is going to be the representative for 6th eds vanilla. It may be pretentious of me to think this way, but I don't Dark Angels to be SM vanilla.

Anyone got any rumours of the SM codex and when it's coming out? Or do we all just assume it'll be wedged in 2012's schedule somewhere?

That's the thing, there hasn't even been a murmur of an upcoming Vanilla codex. Not that there needs to be of course, still a ways off. But I haven't seen or heard anything about it being on the horizon or even a little over the horizon. As far as I can tell it isn't on the radar. That said, the DA rumours are still really sparse as well and the biggest thing going against them right now is it is hard to find a fit for them on the release schedule.

May - Chaos and October - Dark Angels could work of course. But if Chaos aren't a May/June release then the chances of the Dark Angels being close at hand are pretty slim. Especially with Harry saying Eldar are the first codex of 2013.

So whether or not Chaos is in May/June will be important to knowing if we should hold our breath for Dark Angels being released. If Chaos isn't released until after 6th (likely July from what people are saying) then it will probably be October to match up with the starter box release shortly after 6th's core rulebook release. If Chaos is in October then I doubt the DA will be coming in 2012 and may be left until a later release in 2013.

Still way too many unknowns to make concrete guesses at this point. But since no one has so much as hinted at vanilla marines at this point I think this edition switch up will buck the trend of vanilla marines being the first codex in a release. Either we get Chaos before and Dark Angels after, or we get Chaos after and DA at a later point in time (maybe 2013, maybe not).

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Formosa wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I for one think BT have stolen alot of the thunder that DA should have had, DA were the original Space knights, all the effort that went into making BT should have gone into a conbined codex (for DA and BT), look at sword brethen for example, if you got rid of BT from everyones memory and said "Sword brethren are a DA unit) no one would bat an eyelid.

For the life of me I cannot understand this thinking, even since second edition, sure the fluff calls them knights, and they used to do it back before the Lion left to become a primarch of the Emporer,.But they are one of the most shooty of the entire chapters now, the whole "Sword Brethren" for DA would just be foolish to begin with, BT makes for a far more effective melee version of the crusading paladins on foot, while DA are those that think, use horses, and typically are more medieval with their codes, laws, and rules rather than PRAY MAIM, BURN PRAY MAIM BURN

Hell, one of their 2nd edition rules was Intractable, preventing them from moving or assaulting, but gaining stubborn (Even their vehicles, with the exception of ravenwing)

Though I would love to see a dedicated melee ravenwing unit that could count as "knights"

and some new units, like the inner circle knights

Why would this happen, the Inner circle isn't exactly some knights errant that goes hunting, they are made up of masters, grandmasters, and interrogator chaplins, aka, the big leaders. It'd be like a chapter master having additional chapter masters in a command squad. (Though to be honest, it'd be cool to have a retinue made up of badasses like that)

inner circle knights dont have to be from the inner circle, they may be applicants being tested and sent to dangerous tasks and then if they survive they are inducted, they represent the inner circle.
now see how crap that reasoning is i just gave, now apply the same to thunderwolves, sanguanary guard...blood talons etc.
just because is hasn't been in the codex before does not mean it wont in the future.

im curious to know what second ed DA book you have read, as from what your saying thats 3rd, BT didnt really have a thing in 2nd, so yeah, I do think a conbined codex "knights" would have been better, as like it or not, they DO share
alot of the same themes

Thunderwolves were mentioned in the fluff before (Even if the concept is still stupid), blood angels have had sanguinary guard fluffwise, alongside sanguinary priests.
You're asking for something that literally has not been in the fluff at all.

sanguine guard were honour guard i agree, thunderwolves are new to the space wolf codex, they have never been mentioned before the most recent book, giant wolves that prowl fenris were mentioned, infact they were stated as being up to the size of a rhino (iirc) but nowhere are they called thunderwolves, or had dudes riding them. (i agree the concept is dim)

but thats all besidess my original ham fisted point, even a tid bit of fluff can be expanded (all be it in a crappy way) to allow for new stuff

They did indeed have wolves called Thunderwolves, they're mentioned in the Ragnar Blackmane novels. Specifically the first one I believe.

nope, they were giant fenrisian wolves, but even so, they defo didnt have wolfy mc wolf with wolf blades riding them.

still missing my point though guys...

I thought the Necrons were the last 5th ed release? I'd say that it'll be 6th ed and a new codex (probably chaos) released in that order about a month a part, if even that. If Chaos plays a larger role in 6th ed (fluff-wise) then it would make sense that they'd get a close release to 6th. Or DA. Whichever.

And because GW doesn't know the meaning of advertising, I'm still waiting for that Necrons 2nd wave.

If memory serves me, it was written somewhere that the Necron codex was written with an eye towards 6th edition, essentially making it the first 6th ed codex. Looks like Chaos will be the first "official" 6th ed codex.

Kanluwen wrote:
I'm not seeing room for a regular SM codex and given from 3rd ed forward the SM codex was always one of the first to get released I'm fearing that the DA codex is going to be the representative for 6th eds vanilla. It may be pretentious of me to think this way, but I don't Dark Angels to be SM vanilla.

The problem with that is that for every edition it has been vanilla/smurfs in the box set, so the question is, which pattern dose it follow? Vanilla codex, or codex for the box set?

From what I have heard (from a friend, who dose not work for GW or play 40k, but has a friend that dose at GW HQ, but not in design, so take this with a truck load of salt) is that GW are looking at there more "adult" market, the people like us who may not bring the big bucks in once a year, but go back time and time again and keep the company running. This is, apparently, is why they are going more back to the grimdark. It makes sense to me, in that case, that DA will come out as they are much more gothic and much more grimdark, than ultrasmerfs.

Also, talking of knights, would it not be possible that we get some members of the inner circle as an elite choice, something along the lines of GK paladins?

of couse its possible, even quite likely, there must be a terminator (or powered armour) DA command sqaud comming out, just re-name them "Knights of the inner circle" buff em a bit (apoth etc.) and your set.

Would any one else like to see DA get a Relic blade/SS option for termies ?

I think the DA have a possiblity to carve out a spot with Ravenwing- just give them the stat line of a veteran (A 2) and options via either sternguard ammo or vanguard vet weapon options. Otherwise just get the costs down to match the other codexes and add a few of the options (thinking razorbacks and librarians that don't suffer from ADD) and the DA will be back to being viable and interesting. Leave them the option of having the SW at squad size of 5 at cost or free if squad size of 10 and that sets tacticals for DA apart.

Formosa wrote:Would any one else like to see DA get a Relic blade/SS option for termies ?

No, but only because I want them for my Templars. The idea is sound, it doesn't get more knightly than that.

Relic blade/SS termies would be hot.
They would prolly have to cost upwards of 50 points/model though.

Dok wrote:Relic blade/SS termies would be hot.
They would prolly have to cost upwards of 50 points/model though.

RB/SS Termies would just result in a: "Dark Angels are the most Overpowered Book GW has put out in a Decade" thread and general internet malaise and whining. Oh wait, every codex GW puts out has that result.

I think Plasma focused weaponry and squads would be awesome (plasma predator, plasma LR variant, Plasma Heavy weapon for Termies), I would also love to see Knights riding Jet Bikes for the DA. You better believe I would buy DA then.

I thought Relic blades were doublehanded?

I'd prefer Chainfist / SS. Or LC/CF options since LC are retractible and CF is underslung. Goodtimes.

Relic blades simply cannot benefit from any other weapon to gain a bonus attack.

Also RB/SS termies would be an interesting option, but nothing overpowered. Herp derp force weapon spam.

Formosa wrote:Would any one else like to see DA get a Relic blade/SS option for termies ?

I'd love to see them for my termies. A better Str with an Init that's not set at 1. Oh mama! Hmmm how much more points-wise is a relic blade past a power fist. two claws, or TH/SS? It may not add that much more in the way of points to your basic assault termie cost.

It doesn't cost us anything to equip TH/SS or LC now.

RB/SS shouldn't cost you anything extra, thunderhammer has much higher strength plus the lower initiative thing, and double LCs have both an extra attack and re-roll to wounds. Relics are just plus two strength. No reason for them to cost extra.

Personally, I would like to see Ravenwing Seargents getting a powersword and Combatshield option.

Has anyone else noticed this has turned into a wishlist/"how to make DA awesome again?" thread?

I want more rumours.

Not sure its a rumour Ratbarf but I was at Warhammer World today and since I was there last a few months ago the Dark Angels are not in the minature hall. In fact they were nowhere to be seen.

Could mean nothing but just spreading the word!

ghpoobah wrote:I thought Relic blades were doublehanded?

DA ones are not, they are called black swords.

in previous book, the black sword was an example of DA master craftwook, so you could take more than one, come codex spesh mureens and they (this trend continues) got "black swords" in the form of relic blades,
DA are still better do to the in built MC re-roll, but that would be OP on SS termies... or not... dunno

I think for the Deathwing reflecting the fact that the DA were very well equipped with the armour would be the way to go, possibly by focusing on DA only options for them. The aforementioned relic blades and plasma gear sounds good, also give them and company veterans the combi weapon/special ammo thing. I honestly miss hellfire rounds from heavy bolters in 2nd ed still...
Keep terminator upgrades cheapish and increase the cost in vanilla codex marines to reflect the fact the DA have better terminator gear. For exmple as TH/SS is seen as the only way forward combo and pretty damn hard as nails give it a cost of 15 points for Deathwing and 20 for vanilla as a rough figure, or at least make the other weapons a good choice . Would love to get my LC squad of deathwing out again .

Ravenwing I don't think should get the special ammo options, but allow vet sarges to have combi weapons built into the bikes. Slightly chaosy perhaps, but lets face it they're probably going to give DA "chaos marines but loyal really" type stuff . Teleport homers and scout move is a good start, bring back the jink save and I think it'd all be good ,

Get scouts back into the troops section and teleport homer options too, the Elites section is stupidly overcrowded.

Perhaps a rule that taking the respective master which makes Ravenwing or Deathwing troops rule out the other being taken as troops, an add one to make another of the crowded elites troops or FA/HS.

Also for Ravenwing only armies master of the ravenwing or an IC which may take the Ravenwing upgrade (only in all Ravenwing armies eg: Chaplian, Captain (veteran subcommander type idea) will change the army to:

Elites: Ravenwing elite, get access to powerweapons, combi weapons, special ammo etc. Premium prices for powerweapons due to the mobility.
Troops: Bike squadrons as they are now.
FA: Land Speeder squadrons
HS: Attack bike and Typhoon Squadrons


Just a few moe wishes in the wishlists and thoughts on what might bring the DA back up to speed and get rid of the DW/RW only combo people field.

Formosa wrote:

ghpoobah wrote:I thought Relic blades were doublehanded?

DA ones are not, they are called black swords.

in previous book, the black sword was an example of DA master craftwook, so you could take more than one, come codex spesh mureens and they (this trend continues) got "black swords" in the form of relic blades,
DA are still better do to the in built MC re-roll, but that would be OP on SS termies... or not... dunno

Remember Sammeal and Belials blades are Black Swords too, Azreal is the only one with the most powerful.

Hopefully they change that in the next version where all of them are badass.