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Hey every one first post here and I need to ask a really important question. What is the general opinion of Chaos Marines around here? The reason I ask is because I have stopped visiting a certain website's forum due to the persistent negativity aimed at my beloved army. I finally ran out of patience when I gave some simple advice stating that it was a new players decision to assemble and possibly use the possessed in the chaos battle force and then people proceeded to piss all over said comment.

So I figured I would check ahead of time, am I only going to encounter more negativity or are there still some players that have some love for chaos?

I..am very confused by this post. I suppose you should visit the list building part of Dakka Dakka, look up Chaos lists and see what everyone is saying.

ShatteredBlade wrote:I..am very confused by this post. I suppose you should visit the list building part of Dakka Dakka, look up Chaos lists and see what everyone is saying.

A good point there thanks, I don't really get where the confusion is coming from though, I'm just trying to see what the general opinion is around here

It's not that people dislike Chaos Marines per se, it's just that the present codex serves neither fluffy armies nor competitive players particularly well. Possessed, despite the models being rather snazzy (particularly compared with their predecessors), are a common subject of complaint, thanks to their random rules.

Don't let it put you off, however, Chaos Marine armies are still fun to play in friendly games, and there's at least one competitive list which still gets used. The new Codex incoming this Summer (if rumour is to be believed) will hopefully put matters aright.

I love Chaos Marines. Your basic marines are CHEAP and have lots of options. Also, you can give them icons for further bonuses. Plague Marines are also quite popular (run in 5 man units, with 2 meltas). I love my Noise Marines, even if they aren't too popular, and you have plenty of other options too. People claim it too bland, but it's really not THAT horrible of a codex. There are worse. That said, the 6th edition codex will probably be awesome.

There are slightly under 3,300 people logged onto this site as I post this. I don't think you'll easily get a consensus on an opinion question like this.

As for people who actively post, there are certainly many people who feel the codex is outdated and a bit below the main power curve at the moment. There are also people who were disappointed at the lack of variety and "chaos" in it compared to the previous one.

There are a number of us who still play with and enjoy the book, though. It's got some bad matchups, but still can win against most things.

Skinless2 wrote:

ShatteredBlade wrote:I..am very confused by this post. I suppose you should visit the list building part of Dakka Dakka, look up Chaos lists and see what everyone is saying.

A good point there thanks, I don't really get where the confusion is coming from though, I'm just trying to see what the general opinion is around here

Because the way it is worded it seems that if someone doesn't agree with you, you'll just ragequit. I don't mean this as an insult or anything.

They are currently one of the worst armies out there, with very few competative choices and lots of overcosted crap. The recent warptime nerf, which eliminated their probably best HQ choice, made them even worse.

RIP Warptime

I love chaos. And regardless of how (un)competative the book has become, the Dakka P&M forum is brimming with new and old threads dedicated to people's favorite spikeys. Hell the most popular tag in the Dakka Gallery is Chaos.

Here's my current Chaos project, a 10 man squad of chosen with 5 flamers. Not something you'll really see in a game, but something I wanted to, and love doing, because it fits my army and I love that chaos flavor.

Here are some other new threads you might check out:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/413174.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/422570.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/389912.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/239505.page

So basically, chaos is alive and well here on Dakka. We just all wish they'd update the codex already, and bring back legions.

As far as I know most people have a relatively negative opinion on the competitiveness of Chaos Space Marines, but that doesn't stop a vast fan-base for the army, usage-and-success with that army (even in competitive environments; check out Reecius' Battle Reports) and a lot of player support. There will always be the crowd that insist Plague Marines, Lash Princes and Obliterators are the only way, but most people try to make it work with what they've got.

Me, I work around it...

Skinless2 wrote:Hey every one first post here and I need to ask a really important question. What is the general opinion of Chaos Marines around here? The reason I ask is because I have stopped visiting a certain website's forum due to the persistent negativity aimed at my beloved army. I finally ran out of patience when I gave some simple advice stating that it was a new players decision to assemble and possibly use the possessed in the chaos battle force and then people proceeded to piss all over said comment.

So I figured I would check ahead of time, am I only going to encounter more negativity or are there still some players that have some love for chaos?

I have long been a follower of chaos from Rogue Trader and WFB 3rd edition. Still love the forces of chaos in 40k as my signature will attest, but I wouldn't mind seeing an improved chaos codex. The generic daemons really annoy me. Either way given the number of people who post here about 40k on a regular basis I can't say exactly what the overall concensus would be on fielding chaos marines.

These days I have moved to adding forge world pieces to my various established chaos marine armies. Love those blood slaughterer, nurgle plague ogryns, the plague hulk and the blight drones.

Whether others like them or not I will *always* have chaos armies for 40k in one form or another.

Skriker

Alright now this is what I'm talking about some people that still collect and play chaos and LIKE it. To answer ShatteredBlade's statement that it seems like I ragequit when someone disagrees with me, it's not disagreement that bothers me it's going to a forum time and again and finding threads full of statement's along the line of "if a chaos player uses a competitive list and wins it's only because his opponent sucks" or when a new player asks where to start on a new chaos army they get "don't bother starting until a good codex is released, play blood angels instead"... Yeah that get's old really fast let me tell you.

I play a fluffy Iron Warriors list out of the Chaos Space Marines codex. I avoid some of the truly awful choice (spawn, possessed, Thousand Sons) and take some of the better ones (Khorne Berserkers, Vindicators with daemonic possession) and I enjoy the army plenty. With every Marine having at least 2 attacks in close combat, it's a solid army for both charging or jumping out of Rhinos up close, rapid firing, then taking a charge. I won't say the army is a great army competitively, and it's loaded with its fair share of stinkers. I don't exactly feel like I'm fighting against the codex to do well, but I do think the book needs an update pretty desperately.

Play the army and have fun with it. Even Possessed can be marginally useful if you get a lucky roll at the start of the game, but they do nothing Khorne Berserkers can't do for better and cheaper. The only unit I will 100% always avoid altogether is Chaos Spawn though. They are the worst unit and can't really do anything well at all except hemorrhage killpoints.

I have a beautifully painted chaos army that I use every now and then and I have had has success with a fairly vanilla build of a boat load of plague marines that I use as tar pits and 2 winged daemon princes that I use that trail the rhino bound plague marines . I add a Summoned daemon and some other cool stuff depending on my mood and it does well every time ( sometimes we get caught up in codexes and perfect tourney list and the truth is that a good player with a decent list can compete in just about any situation. )

Brother SRM wrote:Play the army and have fun with it. Even Possessed can be marginally useful if you get a lucky roll at the start of the game, but they do nothing Khorne Berserkers can't do for better and cheaper. The only unit I will 100% always avoid altogether is Chaos Spawn though. They are the worst unit and can't really do anything well at all except hemorrhage killpoints.

Actually, I've had Spawn kill ten man terminator squads. It all depends on your rolls.

Personally, i love chaos. Its my favorite army.

I love space marines, i love the chaos gods, While i think Lorgar and Horus were a bit... well, they were... hmm. theres no nice word for my opinion on those two XD.

Model wise, Chaos space marines have SO much potential. You have the 9 legions, the 4 gods, undivided, plus access to any post-heresy style things ala traitor chapters.

The codex, however, is not the best out there. it is severely in need of an update. Fingers crossed ward doesnt gak all over the fluff


Edit : I'm not afraid to admit im a total fanboy for chaos marines

Skinless2 wrote:Alright now this is what I'm talking about some people that still collect and play chaos and LIKE it. To answer ShatteredBlade's statement that it seems like I ragequit when someone disagrees with me, it's not disagreement that bothers me it's going to a forum time and again and finding threads full of statement's along the line of "if a chaos player uses a competitive list and wins it's only because his opponent sucks" or when a new player asks where to start on a new chaos army they get "don't bother starting until a good codex is released, play blood angels instead"... Yeah that get's old really fast let me tell you.

This is funny because against my regular gaming group my chaos marines *always* win. The only times I haven't won games in this group is when I played either Eldar or Space Marines. As soon as I went back to my chaos marines I would win again. It isn't all about tournements and "competitive" lists, but what you do with the forces you have to play with. I have played in plenty of local tournies with my supposedly useless chaos marines against all of the big "power" armies and come in one of the top 3 slots every time. People who discount an army because of esoteric BS discussions really need to actually play it and play it well. Plenty of people who lose with chaos marines expect to do whatever they want and have the power armor save them from their stupidity. It doesn't work that way. Play smartly and win smartly. I don't care how powerful your army is, if you play like an idiot you will lose to a better opponent with a not so awesome army and you deserve to.

Skriker

KingDeath wrote:They are currently one of the worst armies out there, with very few competative choices and lots of overcosted crap. The recent warptime nerf, which eliminated their probably best HQ choice, made them even worse.

What happened to Warp Time?

rockerbikie wrote:

KingDeath wrote:They are currently one of the worst armies out there, with very few competative choices and lots of overcosted crap. The recent warptime nerf, which eliminated their probably best HQ choice, made them even worse.

What happened to Warp Time?

Oh god, you don't know? :( Lash got hit too, not just Warptime...

Warptime now only affects the caster, not his unit I believe. Lash is classified as a PSA now.

Warptime never affected a unit, and no, that's not the nerf. It used to be re-roll all hits and wounds that missed...because that's what the codex says in combination with the rulebook. Now, if you're going to re-roll any of the dice, you have to re-roll all of them, including the ones that did hit/wound. Extremely stupid ruling on GW's part, as other similar abilities in the game don't do this. It's just the FAQ that's changed it to work this way. And yes, with Lash you now have to roll to hit. Not that big of a deal, but you already have to take a risk with the psychic test, and then roll to hit, and then hope to roll high on the 2D6 for the actual Lash...it's just one more thing that can go wrong. Horrible for GW to do this to Chaos, since they kinda messed up Chaos' only competitive builds by doing this.

Durza wrote:Warptime now only affects the caster, not his unit I believe. Lash is classified as a PSA now.

I am upset... Looks like Huron won't kill as much as he used to.

I play chaos, and I win. Often.

I'm not sure why everyone keeps raging about them, maybe the fools rely too much on demon princes and lash of submission?

I run Chaos lord(s) with demon weapons, basic CSM troops, obliterators, some raptors, up to three dreads and a single squad of possessed from time to time. There's also a few termies and some havocs, but everything else shows up more.

CSM (thanks to pistol/CCW) have 2 attacks base, for their price and the fact you can mark them and their special weapon options makes them amazing.

Obliterators can and will deal with anything on the table top. With using troops and other things, you will have enough icons to deep strike reliably, since the oblits don't scatter near them.

Everything else is good in it's own way. Khorne demon weapons wreck everything, including yourself from time to time, but are well worth it for the possible 17 or less attacks on the charge.

Dreads with dual CCW have 5 attacks on the charge. More than any other in the game. Dirt cheap too, with EA and a flamer.

Possessed, while not having grenades, are str 5 and fun to use. I've done very well with them, even though they are costly.

The cult marines, I won't mention, but they are pretty damn good.

Then again, it doesn't matter how good or bad an army is unless your a derp on the table top. Anyone or a monkey can play and win with imperial guard and grey knights, but good players will win with anything, just don't use masses of chaos spawn and you should be fine.

UberhAxTHC wrote: It used to be re-roll all hits and wounds that missed...because that's what the codex says in combination with the rulebook. Now, if you're going to re-roll any of the dice, you have to re-roll all of them, including the ones that did hit/wound.

Wait, seriously? So by bending the fabric of space and time to give himself a better chance to hit the enemy, the Sorceror can end up missing them more?

I know people are saying warp time got a "nerf" but I spoke to my buddy who's been playing Chaos for the last few years and he said its not a nerf, it was meant to be played the way the FAQ stated , people just interpreted it wrong.

I asked him if he was sure since so many people think otherwise and he showed me the rule book which reads:

"The power is used at the start of any player's turn. If successful, the psyker may re-roll ALL ROLLS TO HIT AND ROLLS TO WOUND for the entirety of that player's turn."

It doesn't say re-roll ALL MISSES/FAILED WOUNDS.

CSM are behind the curve competitively. Grey Knights basically do everything we do, better. So do Space Wolves, to a lesser extent. They are good because they sport efficient, flexible infantry. They do what we do, better, but we still do it better than most other armies out there.

Agreed, Darkhound, but that doesn't mean that Chaos can't still compete to some extent; they can still win, just not anywhere near as easily as the above armies.

DarkHound wrote:CSM are behind the curve competitively. Grey Knights basically do everything we do, better. So do Space Wolves, to a lesser extent. They are good because they sport efficient, flexible infantry. They do what we do, better, but we still do it better than most other armies out there.

That's not true , Chaos has more style than GK and Space wolves do And I have GK's and I'm jealous of how awesome Chaos looks lol.

That being said, yeah they are a BIT behind the curve, I wouldn't say they are 100% non-competitive, they are just in need of an update. They can still be very competitive but like tyranids, you are pigeonholed into specific lists to be super competitive.

Just Dave wrote:Agreed, Darkhound, but that doesn't mean that Chaos can't still compete to some extent; they can still win, just not anywhere near as easily as the above armies.

A win is a win and who cares if it as easily as the "power" armies or not. I'd rather the win not be uber easy, because that makes for a much less interesting game to me. I want their to be suspense in the game not win so easily that there was never even the slightest doubt that I would win. BOR-ING!!

Skriker