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Mahu wrote:Personally I can't wait to stick the Knight Cammander in a Punisher, for no other reasons then the look on certain green faces.

I would like to see what the math is on a Knight Commander Punisher versus Nob Bikers.

The math against rank and file Shoota and Slugga Boyz is much more frightening. Looks to be about 20 dead Orks per turn. Even 30 man squads will be taking LD checks from one round of shooting, from one tank.

Of course there will be enough Lascannons to take out the Biker Nobs so they won't be an issue.

Any chance of putting that tank commander in a Baneblade in bigger games?

Janthkin wrote:

warboss wrote:i'm also itching to take some SOB in with my guard army (don't own any yet other than an inquisitor and retinue). i used to love the exorcist but the new vehicle damage rules limit it's effectiveness against av14 tanks. unless they're opentopped, the exorcist will realistically never destroy them due to only getting glances. theoretically, he could immobilize and then weapon destroy everthing and then get another roll but that's unlikely due to having to roll a 6 to even glance av14.

The Exorcist, being AP 1, only has a net -1 to the damage tables on a glance; a '6' will still destroy the target.

sweet! i didn't realize that. great, now i have to buy new IG models AND you're tempting me to get the SOB army i've always wanted to accompany my marines and IG. ever since the 3rd edition core book came out, i wanted an army at 5, 10, and 15pts a basic trooper.

Platuan4th wrote:

warboss wrote:@HBMC

is your heroic senior officer title custom? if so, what will you be changing it to after may 2nd?

Nope, it's just exceedingly high on the Guard Rank Track. If you don't see the DCM(like on mine), Mod(of any flavor), or Admin tag, it isn't custom.

so dakka will have to change some ranks then in order to stay current after may 2nd... thanks!

Is it just me, or do Veterans seem like a steal? 70 Pts. for 10, scoring, BS 4, 3 Specials that can be fired out of the top of a Chimera, and Krak grenades to boot for a little extra versatility.

Although there's a lot of enthusiasm about the Vendetta, I think that the Chimera changes make it into a real workhorse tank that will make it seeing a lot more use. Low cost plus high utility is making me consider mounting a lot of units that I never had considered giving a transport.

More random thoughts about our new skimmers:

While I think the Vendetta is great, I'm less certain than I was yesterday that it's dramatically underpriced. With it's height, it will not get cover saves unless moving fast (and therefore not shooting). Armor 12 is not bad, but I don't see one of these guys firing all its guns more than twice a game unless really lucky.

does it have to use the big flight stand? i'm afraid of the klutzes knocking the table with their legs (including me!). that model will take some serious damage from a fall at that height. also, how do you handle HTH with a model that "high"? as long as they touch the base they're in? but you have to draw shooting range to the actual model? it's needlessly more complicated in a game that (this edition) has been striving to be uncomplicated. i'll either put mine on the table or make the base less high.

Biophysic wrote:While I think the Vendetta is great, I'm less certain than I was yesterday that it's dramatically underpriced. With it's height, it will not get cover saves unless moving fast (and therefore not shooting). Armor 12 is not bad, but I don't see one of these guys firing all its guns more than twice a game unless really lucky.

It can make for an excellent flanker - 24" scout to move to an extreme edge of the table, where the opponent has relatively few guns with range to answer. It's the sort of tactical movement non-drop Guard haven't had a lot of in recent years (read: since 3E made vehicles slow & bland).

Biophysic wrote: I think that the Chimera changes make it into a real workhorse tank that will make it seeing a lot more use. Low cost plus high utility is making me consider mounting a lot of units that I never had considered giving a transport.

Yeah, with the new improved firing points it is more useful. I'm thinking flamers against hormagaunts...

BrookM wrote:Any chance of putting that tank commander in a Baneblade in bigger games?

All signs point to yes.

Kungfuhustler wrote:BESM = Big Eyes, Small Mouth. It's the Anime RPG. It's worse than co-starring in a donkey show.

FATAL = Fantasy Adventure to Adult Lechery. It's the insanely violent, misogynist, racist, sexist and illogical RPG. BESM next to it is like Silvio Berlusconi against Genghis Khan.

Quistis84 wrote:Yarrick + Ogryns = ouch!

Its not that good really. 4 ogryn, 1 bone'ead, and Yarrick is 395 points. Even on the charge they will swing last vs any decent CC unit, will almost always lose combat albeit being able to take the wounds and more, but then if Yarrick makes them fearless they will take a whole bunch more. Even not counting fearless they lose combat to 5 bloodcrushers, which are half their points. Ogryns are only good vs hordes, something that IG has other ways of dealing with. I really want to use Ogryns but not even Yarrick can make them anything more than a speedbump. Even the 'casual' player will have trouble justifying taking them as it takes a huge chunk away from other 'fun' units they could have instead.

Also consider that Yarrick alone is worth 4 Ogryns. Nah, it's much better to take a 76 point Canoness with a Blessed Weapon and bolt pistol as the Ogryns' Morale Buddy.

Is the "5 fire points" on the Chimera bothering anyone else?

WHERE THE HELL ARE THEY?!

If they're supposed to be the lasgun ports... why only 5, when there are 6? And what of the back hatch?

Are all 5 supposed to fire out the hatch? And if so, what of the lasguns?

Is it supposed to represent a 'broadside', in that 2 are firing from the hatch, and you can only fire 3 'lasguns' per side? In which case, won't opponents argue that you're CHANGING your fire points mid game when you go from shooting out the left to shooting out the right?

I know it's a rather minor thing... but it's bugging the ever loving crap out of me.

Personally, I'm using the back hatch for all 5.

Ubik Lives wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:Has anyone thought about how allies will work now? Can i take 2 exorcists and 1-3 Lemanruss battle tanks in my WH army?

While no doubt possible, I probably wouldn't invest in the extra russes because I have a strong feeling that the Witch Hunters gets redone, they'll take away the whole allies rule.

If Chaos Marines can't call in Chaos Daemons, I doubt Inquisition will be able to call in Marines and IG anymore. I could be wrong, but that's what my gut tells me.

Actually, if you look closely at the WH list, the wording specifically says "0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tank". Doesn't seem to give much wiggle room to either use a Leman Russ variant or a squadron of them.

Okay, so I've been thinking about the Devil Dog and it's melta cannon and I'm curious as to how this will work. The melta cannon has a range of 24", small blast, and is a melta weapon, right? Okay, because it's a blast weapon, you place the blast marker over the target and roll the scatter and 2D6-3. Let's say you place the marker over a target that is just at 12" so you can get the 2D6 pen. But when you roll for scatter, you wind up an inch beyond at 13". Does that mean I don't get my 2D6 pen?

I'm going to gamble getting within 12" of my target just so I can get that 2D6 pen. Because that could very easily put me into a charge range for something that will destroy my vehicle. And you're saying that there's a good chance that I won't even be able to get that bonus? That's pretty crappy.

@ Middle-

Any word on whether the Storms re-roll Deep-Strike is conveyed to the valk if they're loaded in it?

I'm really intersted in the idea of an Air Cavalry spearhead in front of a small mech force.



@Everyone with allies- Is it just me or did the New BRB forces of the Imperium make it seem like the next Deamon hunter and witch hunters might be an all in one codex? If they actually did such they would still probably allow allies but then again maybe not.

AlexCage wrote:But... but the LR increased in cost! Didn't we pay for the 'increased utility' from the more expensive chasis? (well, given the points increase of MM/PC, Cruddace says "no").

One assumption you and H.B.M.C. both make is that the old cost was completely correct that no upwards cost correction was needed. The effectiveness of Leman Russ' I think can justify a higher hull cost. I think the weapon upgrades are bit higher than they should be, sponsons would be more appropriate at 5pts less across the board.

AlexCage wrote:Is the "5 fire points" on the Chimera bothering anyone else?

WHERE THE HELL ARE THEY?!

If they're supposed to be the lasgun ports... why only 5, when there are 6? And what of the back hatch?

Are all 5 supposed to fire out the hatch? And if so, what of the lasguns?

Is it supposed to represent a 'broadside', in that 2 are firing from the hatch, and you can only fire 3 'lasguns' per side? In which case, won't opponents argue that you're CHANGING your fire points mid game when you go from shooting out the left to shooting out the right?

I know it's a rather minor thing... but it's bugging the ever loving crap out of me.

Personally, I'm using the back hatch for all 5.

I think you have the general gist of why GW simplified it to 5 firing points (probably out the hatch). The whole 6 lasguns thing wasn't exactly something covered in the core rule book and would just needlessly take up room in the codex. I think this was a well executed move for simplifying a needless rule that was generally inconsistent with the main rules.

I'm loving all this. I can already see how my army will be shaping up now. There are still plenty of competitive options for the tourney players and I think once the book is out and people really start figuring out what to do you will see lots of cool and powerful lists. and for the people like me who just want fun and fluffy lists and lose all the time there's still tons of options for armies that look really awesome as I remove casualties by the double-handfull. I guess my only real gripe is with the heavy weapon squads dying so much easier, but oh well. I will still use them just because I spent money on em.

I'm selling mine. What a waste.

Well, I have now confirmed everything MIDDLE has posted is true!

I posted a compilation of his posts over at LO, and the post got deleted/locked for copyright infringement!

And that is why I've Warwicked (i.e. copy/pasted) mine and saved it on my hard drive.

Death By Monkeys wrote:And that is why I've Warwicked (i.e. copy/pasted) mine and saved it on my hard drive.

Does this mean that you've been freelanced to write the IA Volume 1 FAQ/update?

Platuan4th wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:And that is why I've Warwicked (i.e. copy/pasted) mine and saved it on my hard drive.

Does this mean that you've been freelanced to write the IA Volume 1 FAQ/update?

Death By Monkeys wrote:Okay, so I've been thinking about the Devil Dog and it's melta cannon and I'm curious as to how this will work. The melta cannon has a range of 24", small blast, and is a melta weapon, right? Okay, because it's a blast weapon, you place the blast marker over the target and roll the scatter and 2D6-3. Let's say you place the marker over a target that is just at 12" so you can get the 2D6 pen. But when you roll for scatter, you wind up an inch beyond at 13". Does that mean I don't get my 2D6 pen?

I'm going to gamble getting within 12" of my target just so I can get that 2D6 pen. Because that could very easily put me into a charge range for something that will destroy my vehicle. And you're saying that there's a good chance that I won't even be able to get that bonus? That's pretty crappy.

The wording in the BGB for melta says if the weapon is half range or less... so RAW, the final position of the blast marker should be irrelevant.

Sounds like a future YMDC topic.

ubermosher wrote:The wording in the BGB for melta says if the weapon is half range or less... so RAW, the final position of the blast marker should be irrelevant.

Sounds like a future YMDC topic.

Ahhh...good point, good point! Okay, that alleviates some of my fears a little.

Solution: Say "Screw it" and fire the Multi-Melta!

... Wait... that's a terrible idea...


But still, who else is psyched about Devildogs with Multi-Meltas? Anyone?


Oh! Hey small question, but is the Platoon Command Squad filled with vets like the Company Command Squad? I'm guessing "No", but I saw no clarification one way or the other.

While looking through the stuff Middle got for us(thanks btw) I noticed that a Platoon Command Squad can take 4X flamers and a hv-flamer for 5 templates, coupled with a turret hv-flamer a hull hv-flamer and the 5 fire points of a chimera, I'm imagining some truely horrific drive by's!

Centurion.

AlexCage wrote:Is the "5 fire points" on the Chimera bothering anyone else?

WHERE THE HELL ARE THEY?!

If they're supposed to be the lasgun ports... why only 5, when there are 6? And what of the back hatch?

Are all 5 supposed to fire out the hatch? And if so, what of the lasguns?

Is it supposed to represent a 'broadside', in that 2 are firing from the hatch, and you can only fire 3 'lasguns' per side? In which case, won't opponents argue that you're CHANGING your fire points mid game when you go from shooting out the left to shooting out the right?

I know it's a rather minor thing... but it's bugging the ever loving crap out of me.

Personally, I'm using the back hatch for all 5.

I think i can answer this one to your satisfaction.

It was never GWs intention for you to be able to fire all 6 of the hull lasguns. You should have only ever had 3 of the 6 in LOS of a unit (with a couple crazy exceptions.)

So thats 3, plus the old chimera allowed for 2 people to fire out of the back hatch, which ends up making 5. It's not an absolute perfect fit, but it is an inspired rule change. Fire points are covered well in the main rulebook and are easily understood, whereas the hull lasguns were not. It might let you fire one more special weapon than before, but it is universally easy to understand, and a nice little bump in power level.

Centurion wrote:While looking through the stuff Middle got for us(thanks btw) I noticed that a Platoon Command Squad can take 4X flamers and a hv-flamer for 5 templates, coupled with a turret hv-flamer a hull hv-flamer and the 5 fire points of a chimera, I'm imagining some truely horrific drive by's!

Centurion.

well as there are only 4 vets it would be 3x flamers and 1 heavy flamer no?

I've actually been thinking about this squad:

Vet Squad w/ Harker and his Hvy Bolter + 3 Plasma Gun wielding Vets in a Chimera. Want to make it a firebase? Add another HB HW team to the Vet Squad.

Does Harker take up your Vet's squads heavy weapon choice? Or does he only add to the squad... 2 heavy bolters and 3 plasma gun... hmm. Very nice squad.