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I think that when people say "the Kan Wall is dead," they mean the configuration of using Kan Walls for a 4+ cover save is dead. That doesn't mean that you can't use Kans, or that they don't have a niche, that just means that they cannot be used en masse to confer a 4+ cover save to your army.

And so the question is how does a cadre of Kans with Grotzookas perform? Or how do they perform as a cheap unit of DCCWs? Or midfield BS3 Rokkits?

TedNugent wrote:I think that when people say "the Kan Wall is dead," they mean the configuration of using Kan Walls for a 4+ cover save is dead. That doesn't mean that you can't use Kans, or that they don't have a niche, that just means that they cannot be used en masse to confer a 4+ cover save to your army.

And so the question is how does a cadre of Kans with Grotzookas perform? Or how do they perform as a cheap unit of DCCWs? Or midfield BS3 Rokkits?

This is exactly what I have been thinking. It's called a paradigm shift. Yes, the old Kanwall is more or less half the man it used to be, but that doesn't mean 9 Kans can't do something interesting in the game.
I believe "Kanwall" is dead, but I seriously doubt "Dredbash" is dead. I feel like Kans still have a lot to offer as tactical mobile gun platforms. With squad rules, wound allocation, hull points, and repair rules changed, I think we'll just have to think a bit and see what we come up with.
At the very least people need to quit thinking in terms of 2 hull points, and start thinking fo them in terms of 6 repairable hull points.

Good points... now there's a reason to buy grot riggers on those Kans!

I remember seeing this one guy posting a list for 2000 point games with 4 Big Meks, 4 Deffdredds (2 with 4xDCCW, 2 with double KMBs), and 12 Killa Kanz in 4 Squadrons- 3 Squads with rokkits/KMB and 1 with Grotzookas. Filled the rest with some min grot squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though I think they'd benefit most from some min Burna mobs with max Meks.

Great to hear some positivity on Kans! I really love me my 6 kans + 3 looted sentinels

Quick question, if a Kan is in base contact with a BW, and there's a mek inside the wagon, does the mek count as being in base contact with the Kan and thus can effect repairs? If it does, then a wagon loaded with 12 lootas and 3 meks could be an effective mobile firebase / repair station.

I doubt it, as the Mek has to be B2B, and he isn't if he's inside the BW, even if it is..

Be nice though.

tgjensen wrote:

Jidmah wrote:You have also missed the second buff. You can now throw tankbusta bombs. Throw, as in 8" AP4 assault 1.

Where exactly do you find the rules for thrown Tankbusta bombs?

You can throw krak grenades (well, one member of a squad can per turn instead of any other shooting weapon(s) they have).

The Ork Codex specifically states that Tankbusta Bombs are treated just like krak grenades but roll 2D6 penetration.

Anvildude wrote:

shogun wrote:
I think you forget the loota dakka dakka wagon list :

3 battlewagons with dakka and Moar Dakka and maybe deffrolla's
3x 15 loota's go into the battlewagons with a few meks to repair those hullpoints and shooting with precision strikes
3 x dakkajets

fill up points with [/color=blue]Shoota Boyz[/color]...

Stol- I mean, Fixed that for ya.

I will fix that for you..

my 1750 point list:

Big mek with KFF

Warboss biker for hunting OR Mega armour warboss for counterattack

15 loota's with 3 meks (either kustom mega blasta or big shoota's for precision strikes)
15 loota's with 3 meks (either kustom mega blasta or big shoota's for precision strikes)
15 loota's with 3 meks (either kustom mega blasta or big shoota's for precision strikes)

Battlewagon with 4 big shoota's, zappgun, extra armor and deffrolla (you need sumthing to kill off those armor 14 vehicles)
Battlewagon with 4 big shoota's, zappgun, extra armor and deffrolla
Battlewagon with 4 big shoota's, zappgun, extra armor and deffrolla

20 grots
10 grots
10 grots

dakkajet
dakkajet
dakkajet

I like this list... i like it a lot!

Dribble Joy wrote:

tgjensen wrote:

Jidmah wrote:You have also missed the second buff. You can now throw tankbusta bombs. Throw, as in 8" AP4 assault 1.

Where exactly do you find the rules for thrown Tankbusta bombs?

You can throw krak grenades (well, one member of a squad can per turn instead of any other shooting weapon(s) they have).

The Ork Codex specifically states that Tankbusta Bombs are treated just like krak grenades but roll 2D6 penetration.

Right you are. Thanks.

In addition, Tankbusta Bombs can also be found in the apendix for ranged weapons, including their 2d6 penetration, for anyone even thinking of yelling "loop hole!".

Okay, now I apologise for playing the part of the ignorant (our rulebook is still half a week out prior to local release), but what are the requirements for a "character" in a unit?

I'm looking at my Grot Tanks (which I admittedly can't play with currently, without knowing how many hull points they have), and wondering if the Kommanda upgrade means that grot tank is a character. The ruling states that one grot tank can be upgraded to a Kommanda, mounting a second weapon, and allowing them to re-roll their dice for movement while he lives. Would that qualify? Being able to potentially allocate two KMB shots would be neat.

I heard it mentioned somewhere that Zzap Guns auto-hit again, is it true? I havent seen anything mentioned in this thread, if they do that's a big bonus to bring back to them!

Kharrak wrote:Okay, now I apologise for playing the part of the ignorant (our rulebook is still half a week out prior to local release), but what are the requirements for a "character" in a unit?

I'm looking at my Grot Tanks (which I admittedly can't play with currently, without knowing how many hull points they have), and wondering if the Kommanda upgrade means that grot tank is a character. The ruling states that one grot tank can be upgraded to a Kommanda, mounting a second weapon, and allowing them to re-roll their dice for movement while he lives. Would that qualify? Being able to potentially allocate two KMB shots would be neat.

Pretty easy, there is a list in the back of BRB like the one in the back of the codex, but with a (C) on characters. Ork characters are Warbosses, Big Meks, Weird Boyz, Nobz, Warbiker Nobz, 'ard Nobz, Pain Boyz, Meks and Runtherds - in addition to all named Characters.

Beatonator wrote:I heard it mentioned somewhere that Zzap Guns auto-hit again, is it true? I havent seen anything mentioned in this thread, if they do that's a big bonus to bring back to them!

The BRB doesn't even mention Zzap Guns. The FAQ also hasn't changed, which tells you the opposite.

Jidmah wrote:The BRB doesn't even mention Zzap Guns. The FAQ also hasn't changed, which tells you the opposite.

Dang. I haven't got the 6th edition yet. I am hanging tight with 5th for a little while until I can save the cash to get 6th, but I'm reading all the info on 6 I can. Shame about the Zzap Guns!

rabidaskal wrote:Great to hear some positivity on Kans! I really love me my 6 kans + 3 looted sentinels

Quick question, if a Kan is in base contact with a BW, and there's a mek inside the wagon, does the mek count as being in base contact with the Kan and thus can effect repairs? If it does, then a wagon loaded with 12 lootas and 3 meks could be an effective mobile firebase / repair station.

I've got 3 Looted Sentinels as well. +3 old metal ones along with 3 new plastic ones. Realy easy to tell the mobs apart.

I will finally run my first game of 6th tonight thinking in running something like:

No Name (999pts)
1000pt Orks 6th Ed Roster (Standard)


* HQ (190pts)
* Big Mek (95pts)
Choppa, Cybork Body, Kustom Force Field
* Warboss (95pts)
'Eavy Armour, Power Klaw, Twin-Linked Shoota

* Elites (225pts)
* 5xLootas (75pts)
* 5xLootas (75pts)
* 5xLootas (75pts)

* Troops (350pts)
* Ork Boyz (175pts)
Big Shoota, 20x Shoota Boy
* Nob
'Eavy Armour, Big Shoota, Bosspole, Power Klaw
* Ork Boyz (175pts)
Big Shoota, 20x Shoota Boy
* Nob
'Eavy Armour, Big Shoota, Bosspole, Power Klaw

* Heavy Support (234pts)
* Big Gunz (78pts)
3x Kannon
6x Additional Grot Krew

* Big Gunz (78pts)
3x Kannon
6x Additional Grot Krew

* Big Gunz (78pts)
3x Kannon
6x Additional Grot Krew

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

Opinions?

Kharrak wrote:Okay, now I apologise for playing the part of the ignorant (our rulebook is still half a week out prior to local release), but what are the requirements for a "character" in a unit?

I'm looking at my Grot Tanks (which I admittedly can't play with currently, without knowing how many hull points they have), and wondering if the Kommanda upgrade means that grot tank is a character. The ruling states that one grot tank can be upgraded to a Kommanda, mounting a second weapon, and allowing them to re-roll their dice for movement while he lives. Would that qualify? Being able to potentially allocate two KMB shots would be neat.

Problem is you're using forgeworld rules

Forgeworld has yet to update their rules (which I would imagine to take some time). Plus I do not think Vehicles can be characters (unless a walker? Correct me if I'm wrong)

kenshin620 wrote:

Kharrak wrote:Okay, now I apologise for playing the part of the ignorant (our rulebook is still half a week out prior to local release), but what are the requirements for a "character" in a unit?

I'm looking at my Grot Tanks (which I admittedly can't play with currently, without knowing how many hull points they have), and wondering if the Kommanda upgrade means that grot tank is a character. The ruling states that one grot tank can be upgraded to a Kommanda, mounting a second weapon, and allowing them to re-roll their dice for movement while he lives. Would that qualify? Being able to potentially allocate two KMB shots would be neat.

Problem is you're using forgeworld rules

Forgeworld has yet to update their rules (which I would imagine to take some time). Plus I do not think Vehicles can be characters (unless a walker? Correct me if I'm wrong)

Yeah waiting on that - but I was under the (incorrect) impression that there was a way to see if certain units were characters. Possibly encouraged by some memories from Pancake edition. Anyway, considering there is apparently a list, I'll have to wait until Forgeworld get their updates together. Ah well, opens up about 250pts in my lists until then.

Quoting the rulebook, under Character Types, page 63: "Most characters are fielded in units from the start of the game, and represent squad leaders, such as a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant. They have their own profile, but do not have a separate entry. They are effectively just another trooper in their unit, with enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider selection of weapons and wargear choices. Other characters, such as Mephiston of the Blood Angels, fight as units on their own. They are either mighty, or feared enough by their own kind, that they don't take to the battlefield with other warriors. Regardless of their potency, all follow the rules for characters."

For extra precision, there is also a reference list in the back where all types of units are listed, and this is where people see that Paladins, Nobz (but not Meganobz or Flash Gits) and Wolf Guard are characters. However, it seems very likely that any model with its own statline in a unit would qualify as a character - Painboys and Mekboys are characters as well, without being squad leaders.

And I don't think there's a limit on what unit types can be characters. Bjorn and... Pasque? I think? (the IG Tank guy) are both vehicles.

Dag. allocated shots from a LRBT.

Anvildude wrote:Dag. allocated shots from a LRBT.

Balls to that.

Punisher.

Edit:

Could use some input on this.

Orks got a huge buff from allies. Previously we could do gak all against land-raiders at range. Now we can bring some friendly broadsides or lovely contingent of looted demolishers

Or simply smash it with a warboss hitting on 3+ or the now a lot less useless tanbustaz.

Stop:

TANKHAMMERTIME!

Don't forget that they can pepper the enemy with rokkits (snap fired) as the BW rattles along along too..

Tankbustas were always a favourite unit for me, and now they are actually effective as well

youbedead wrote:Orks got a huge buff from allies. Previously we could do gak all against land-raiders at range. Now we can bring some friendly broadsides or lovely contingent of looted demolishers

This seems a useful approach. They'd only be 'allies of convenience', but offhand I don't see any likely rule disadvantages as a result.

And modellingwise, converting a walker with a looted TL railgun and missiles, counting as a Tau Broadside, seems tremendously cool

That's the best part about Allies and Orks. You can always convert them to be Orky!

Clang wrote:

youbedead wrote:Orks got a huge buff from allies. Previously we could do gak all against land-raiders at range. Now we can bring some friendly broadsides or lovely contingent of looted demolishers

This seems a useful approach. They'd only be 'allies of convenience', but offhand I don't see any likely rule disadvantages as a result.

And modellingwise, converting a walker with a looted TL railgun and missiles, counting as a Tau Broadside, seems tremendously cool

We don't get any brothers in army, so allies of convenience is fine. We can't join their units, but that's about it for downsides.

It was just pointed out on another forum that if one model in a unit has Slow and Purposeful, the entire unit has it. So stick a Mega-Armored Big Mek in front of a unit of Lootas, bam: Move and shoot, and 2+ armor save for everybody until he dies.

Err, now that's just ridiculous... Here's hoping that particular loophole gets FAQd...

/Calle