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Mhmm?

I freely admit I know very little about resin casting. Metal casting is another thing of course. I also have a pretty good working knowledge of the major Ebay recasters of a few years ago. That is mainly what I am talking about.

TR

The Resin Moulds are rubber.

Short lived of course, as it's almost like Rubber Glove Rubber (but thicker of course) but easy enough to knock up.

And when you consider Forgeworld, you only need a couple of kits from each mould to make it worth the while.

Translate it yourself,
( no minors allowed if you are going to click randomly since if you cant read it -_- just incase )

http://www.kurushima.com/kaizoku.htm


*oh ya incomming rocket science top secret recast machines that
only FW have access to...

Lol for people that does this for a living, for decades, piece of cake.
Like FW's way of casting is the ONLY way to cast... as if -_- ;

Any thoughts? doubts? comments?

lunahound people might tend to agree with your argument if it were true.

But other industrys where recasting is perfectly fine the large compnaies haven't suffered for it.

Ford hasn't made the 1967 mustang since 1967. Yet there are a lot of people who want a 1967 mustang.

What are these people to do? They could spend thousands upon thousand of dollars and buy an orginial 1967 ford mustang for $45,000 dollars. OOORRRRR they can buy a recast, yes a recast of originial ford parts, like side panels, seat covers and all kinds of things.

So they make a kit 1967 ford mustang. Have they copied the orginial, yes. Have other companies made money off the hard work and look of the Ford product, yes.

Has ford lost any money off of it? yes perhaps millions.

Is it legal? Only as long as they don't use the Ford logo.

And it's just not ford, its chevy, porche, lambos everything.

So how much for someone to cast me up an E-type jag?

Ya dagger , back to the if not caught its ok , if others do wrong , its ok if i do wrong too argument.

Im done here , showed basic stuff i wanted to show:

a) Crazy easily to do recast
b) Its been pissing off asian kit companies for decades.

the rest too hard , fly over to china see for yourself , or come to Vancouver in a few month to our Night Market and i'll take you around.
Remember , why continue doing old resin cast to sell for $50 , when a forge world can yield $300+

One last thing for skeptics . Just because we dont know how to do somethings , or find it hard to do , doesnt mean others havnt found ways to do it ,better , easier.

Oh another thing i forgot to mention. There are some misconception to some of your views on counterfeiters.
Remember, they dont start as people that recast because they cant afford stuff omg warhammer toys.
They do this for LIVING , means w/e is hot now , sells well , yields nice profit = GOGOGO

That post was almost completely unintelligible.

@Trench Raider: With the right silicon rubber you can do resin or metal casts from the same mold. sure, you'll have to switch it out from spincaster to pressure pot, but it IS doable.

You can easily make the molds and get the materials to make a 2000 pt army (of infantry/small vehicles like bikes or 'speeder-types') for under what it would cost for the models (going by our prices.) IF you know what you are doing.

I've seen entire biker 'ravenwing' armies copied in the past (older RT bikes were smaller and easier to copy) from a handful of bikes. For the cost of say 5 individual 'units' (not squad type units), it was possible to make 100 identical units.

And that is why "garage" recasting focuses on expensive stuff like FSS models that retail for $100+, rather than cheaper stuff.

Why there isn't more of an effort to recast Warhounds and Reavers, I can't imagine. You'd think those would be profitable to recast...

Oh, wait...

JohnHwangDD wrote:And that is why "garage" recasting focuses on expensive stuff like FSS models that retail for $100+, rather than cheaper stuff.

Why there isn't more of an effort to recast Warhounds and Reavers, I can't imagine. You'd think those would be profitable to recast...

Oh, wait...

That and stuff like resin FW accessories / upgrade kits are harder to catch
and sell easily too, buyer can spend lots of smaller chunks of $30 - $60 instead
of one whole $300.

Yeah, those 1-sided FW whatnots would be trival to copy with something as a press mold.

Trivial to copy in a one-sided silicon rtv mold for resin, too. Even the GW "basing kit" extras (resin) are a doddle.

That is the downside of resin casting, though. The resin WILL damage the rubber over time (and some release agents don't help). You can generally only get around 50 casts out of a resin mold. You can in theory get around 100 metal casts from a well made mold, but the resin is cheaper to buy.

Whilst going through some old SoLegends stuff, I've seen "invisible" frodos for LoTR, and there's the giant template for WHFB now. I presume they sold a few of these. They would've made a killing from a "limited edition" "invisible lictor or stealth suit. They've proven they CAN do them.

Giant template is made in China...

LunaHound wrote:
Nono , the mini is metal lol.

It went from normal silver color into bronze ish ( yellowish tint )

And no one smokes D: and no one smokes touch the mini either!

it oxidized.. nothing to worry about. that's what happens to the mold release agent and heat..

Trench-Raider wrote:Wow.
This thread is STILL going on? That is interesting. Since one of the major themes in this one is the morality of recasting and the like I'll chime in with my views on the issue.


TR

no, it's a major theme that keeps getting drug out of the woodshed and beat to death.. the major theme here is..
back to the original question..

"Counterfeit Miniatures, ever received any? How'd you know? Have any good resources online people can use to check what they do get? " In other words, who give a flying rats arse about what's moral or immoral about recasting.. The question is, as a buyer, how do you protect yourself from it..

Let's take the moral/immoral issues and either seperate them form the thread or lock this up.. Sheesh.

There is no point continuing to debate the moral issues since there are three fixed viewpoints which aren't going to change because of a thread.

1. It's wrong.
2. It's right, because of some justification.
3. It's wrong but I'm going to do it anyway.

As for ways to recognise counterfeits if you buy them by chance, the Hasslefree forum is a good place to look for info.

http://forum-of-doom.com/index.php?topic=3081.0

http://forum-of-doom.com/index.php?topic=9276.0

Unfortunately I cannot disclose much more than the case number and names.

The defendant was a ebay seller who was caught selling counterfeit miniatures. GW sued for about $xxxxxx and won the case but only got a judgment of about $xxxxx against the defendant.

Trench-Raider wrote:

GW already sued and won in US District Court.

GAMES WORKSHOP LTD., Plaintiff, v. BRIAN BEAL, Defendant.

Case No. 04-0013-CV-W-FJG

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF MISSOURI, WESTERN DIVISION

2006 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 22525

Hmm...
"Goblins-Goodies" was out of Missouri. If I recall correctly, so was Mac-Ace. Is this case one of those two infamous commercial recasters? Does anyone know the details of the case?

TR

BTW, I'm not trying to keep secrets. It's just that my contract with Lexis Nexis prohibit me from disclosing any more information.

It's rather strange that this case is on Lexis Nexis but not on Westlaw.

I'm sure you can find this case online somewhere in its entirety. It is quite interesting.

There's a 4th viewpoint on counterfeits:

4. I don't really care, it doesn't affect me.

inquisitor_bob wrote:BTW, I'm not trying to keep secrets. It's just that my contract with Lexis Nexis prohibit me from disclosing any more information.

It's rather strange that this case is on Lexis Nexis but not on Westlaw.

I'm sure you can find this case online somewhere in its entirety. It is quite interesting.

A quick look at the 'net shows this to be "Mac-Ace". A partial news story shows that the case concluded in 2007. This was a couple of years after he stopped selling on Ebay. The litigation must have taken some time.
Now you have me curious about the details of the case.

TR

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Giant template is made in China...

So are the etched brass bits and the "markerlight" laser pointer.

My point is, they did it at least once already (albeit as a subcontracted job). There's nothing stopping them from doing it again.
Even if they were just FW special limited editions these days. There are crowds of people who will buy resin stuff JUST because it has the FW branding on it. It isn't that difficult to do a clear resin batch and then go back to the grey stuff.

As to how to protect yourself from it?

Knowledge is power. Learn to spot them. I only buy my 2nd hand stuff in person, where I can physically handle the items and look them over. I don't buy off ebay. I have seen a few recasts in person, although, being associated with the napoleonics/WW2 and other gaming groups gives me a different perspective (it's a common thing not frowned upon in several of them - for some, you were sold a mold with a casting, and were encouraged to make your own.).

Pewter yellowing is a combination of UV interacting with the mold release and general oxidation processes. I had a bunch of still in blister GW stock (SM from late 2nd ed) do this. A good clean and prime and they are fine.

chaplaingrabthar wrote:So how much for someone to cast me up an E-type jag?

PM me.

Whatever he quotes you, I'll do it for $1 less. =p

Trench-Raider wrote:A quick look at the 'net shows this to be "Mac-Ace". A partial news story shows that the case concluded in 2007. This was a couple of years after he stopped selling on Ebay. The litigation must have taken some time.
Now you have me curious about the details of the case.

TR

Didn't we determine that Mac and GG were the same guy, or were they different after all?

Gitkikka wrote:

Trench-Raider wrote:A quick look at the 'net shows this to be "Mac-Ace". A partial news story shows that the case concluded in 2007. This was a couple of years after he stopped selling on Ebay. The litigation must have taken some time.
Now you have me curious about the details of the case.

TR

Didn't we determine that Mac and GG were the same guy, or were they different after all?

Nope.
While oddly enough both guys in question lived in the same state they are/were different people with different MOs.
Goblins-goodies was probably using a large comercial size casting machine and sold his stuff in large lots. He cast in a pewter alloy and his work was actually quite good. He mostly sold OOP GW stuff, but he also made casts of other miniatures such as Foundry and Copplestone Castings.

Mac-Ace on the other hand sold individual miniatures or small lots and exclusively dealt in OOP GW stuff. His models were roughly cast and he was probably doing "pour" or drop casting. He also cast in a soft lead alloy and all his figures were primed white to hide the casting errors.

What may have confused you is that as Ebay began to take the recaster thing more seriously, both used multible accounts to try to hide their status. For example GG also sold under an account named "funstuffinnyc".

TR

interesting stuff.


btw how can you tell a FW counterfeit?

I have a question -

-Are all FW dark resin? I've bought some in light grey resin and.. they were all detailed.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v628/chaosauron/?action=view¤t=IMG_0440.jpg

I will admit - spent about 2k~ for the stuff.


I'm not sure if it is recast or not, BUT, my friend... did pick up about 15 imperial navy vehicles, and one titan.

This was 1-2 years ago.

RogueMarket wrote:interesting stuff.


btw how can you tell a FW counterfeit?

I have a question -

-Are all FW dark resin? I've bought some in light grey resin and.. they were all detailed.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v628/chaosauron/?action=view¤t=IMG_0440.jpg

I will admit - spent about 2k~ for the stuff.


I'm not sure if it is recast or not, BUT, my friend... did pick up about 15 imperial navy vehicles, and one titan.

This was 1-2 years ago.

FW Resin colors vary. Mostly it depends on the mixtures and batches, but I always tend to get white or light grey resin colors from them.

I've gotten the same models in both light yellow and dark gray. It's just some color they add to that batch according to the guy at the battle bunker.

As resins are all two-part mixes, either the resin or hardener could have colour added to it. Colours also vary between resins in the same type (polyurethane has at least three colours that I know of - epoxy has at least 4).

I can cast white resin from a "clear" simply by mixing in talc to my resin before adding hardener, for example. The resin becomes slightly softer (as talc is a soft mineral), but it will still hold detail the same.