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Very disappointing news. I wasn't at all impressed with the WD Blood Angel codex. Come to think of it, the Warriors of Chaos WD army book sucked, too ...

Pouncey wrote:Personally, I welcome the upcoming WD Codex. ^^

It's new stuff! I love new stuff!

Technically, a cat dumping on your carpet is "new stuff".

Just cause it's new doesn't mean it's good...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Noisy_Marine wrote:Very disappointing news. I wasn't at all impressed with the WD Blood Angel codex. Come to think of it, the Warriors of Chaos WD army book sucked, too ...

As did every other PDF codex GW has ever released

JGrand wrote:Still, I have a hard time believing that the new dex will be worse than the current one.

It will remove the Armoury and Allies for starters. If nothing else, that means they'll be starting off on the wrong foot.

AlexHolker wrote:

JGrand wrote:Still, I have a hard time believing that the new dex will be worse than the current one.

It will remove the Armoury and Allies for starters. If nothing else, that means they'll be starting off on the wrong foot.

They could start by making Celestians into a dedicated assault unit, instead of a shooty unit with assaulty stats and abilities...

It could be a multitude of things going on here, possibly they are for sure in the new box set, 6th is right around the corner (even closer than we know) and they learned from the eldar codex that the book just before a rules release is better off saved till after but they wanted to give the SOB some love so..,they realized that the white dwarf is a place that can house new rules etc like old school dwarves.

Plus i have always found it hard to believe that there is enough info troop types etc etc for SOB to have their own dex without it being very small.

I haven't seen any proof of that as of yet Melissia. I think the 5 per box is more of an elite troops thing, I really doubt we'll see boxes of troops in Finecast anyway.

As for Repentia, I have a bunch I was planning to paint. This codex might even make them worth playing But please gief plastic ones, so we can take them off the horrible poses they were cursed with (as if they weren't cursed enough already).

Edit : Wow, the discussion zoomed past while I was typing this....*curses at workload*

Happy for the Sisters players, hopefully this will give them a bump in terms of competitiveness. I thought I read a while back that the second wave of Tyranid models was going to be in August, I (selfishly) hope that the SoBs don't bump ... assuming it was true in the first place.

Noisy_Marine wrote:Very disappointing news. I wasn't at all impressed with the WD Blood Angel codex. Come to think of it, the Warriors of Chaos WD army book sucked, too ...

Again, the Blood Angel WD army list was a big improvement over the (then) current Blood Angel book. Was it as good as the Blood Angels codex actually turned out to be? No, but I think a whole LOT of this stems from the fact that the Blood Angel WD army list was a sibling to the (undeniably) weak Dark Angels codex rather than simply because it was published in White Dwarf.

If the Sisters of Battle army list in WD was co-designed alongside the Grey Knight book then there's no reason it shouldn't be at roughly the same level of 'power' as the Grey Knights.


And Melissia, yet again you keep acting like the release of this army list in White Dwarf changes when GW will release an actual codex. Of course it doesn't. GW has always released their full army codexes to help promote miniature releases. So regardless of whether or not this army list gets published in WD would have absolutely NO impact on when the actual codex gets released.

And you keep saying over and over again that every PDF army list they've ever released has sucked, but for the 1,000th time: The last 40K army list they released via White Dwarf (Blood Angels) was a massive improvement over the existing codex at the time.

So if it is going to take, say 2 years until they're able to finish sculpting all the miniatures why would you not want some sort of improvement over the existing codex during that time?

yakface wrote:
And you keep saying over and over again that every PDF army list they've ever released has sucked, but for the 1,000th time: The last 40K army list they released via White Dwarf (Blood Angels) was a massive improvement over the existing codex at the time.

And the 3rd edition Sisters WD list was amazing, especially considering what they had before that.

That's a good point about the relationship between the Blood Angel codex and the Dark Angel codex.

Perhaps there is hope for the sisters.

Again, the Blood Angel WD army list was a big improvement over the (then) current Blood Angel book. Was it as good as the Blood Angels codex actually turned out to be? No, but I think a whole LOT of this stems from the fact that the Blood Angel WD army list was a sibling to the (undeniably) weak Dark Angels codex rather than simply because it was published in White Dwarf.

If the Sisters of Battle army list in WD was co-designed alongside the Grey Knight book then there's no reason it shouldn't be at roughly the same level of 'power' as the Grey Knights.

+1 Just because something happened way back when doesn't mean that an internationally gimped codex is coming. Even the worst 5th edition codex is leaps and bounds better than what Sisters have now.

And Melissia, yet again you keep acting like the release of this army list in White Dwarf changes when GW will release an actual codex. Of course it doesn't. GW has always released their full army codexes to help promote miniature releases. So regardless of whether or not this army list gets published in WD would have absolutely NO impact on when the actual codex gets released.

And you keep saying over and over again that every PDF army list they've ever released has sucked, but for the 1,000th time: The last 40K army list they released via White Dwarf (Blood Angels) was a massive improvement over the existing codex at the time.

She just likes to complain, plain and simple. There is no way that the codex will be worse than what they have now. New models should be nice too. Complaining about only 5 per box? If the rumors are true and it really is such a catch all unit and clocks in at around $30 or less than I see no problems. The new GK units are 5 per box and still beat the metal prices.

So if it is going to take, say 2 years until they're able to finish sculpting all the miniatures why would you not want some sort of improvement over the existing codex during that time?

This is absolutely the most important point: who said that this WD codex is pushing back anything? Where did that info come from? It's an assumption. As I've said before, I'd easily take a stopgap for Daemons and I'm sure plenty of other armies would be happy as well.

SOB isn't going to be squatted, and stop smoking so much weed t9o much of that gak will make you paranoid.

GW's primary motivation is to make money, so just ask yourself a real simple question: Would squatting 40k's most expensive army improve GW's bottom line?

GW has a lot of projects currently under production. Fine cast is a huge project that is going to eat an enormous amount of their time resulting in many modeling projects such as multi part SOB troops being delayed. The codex is just not going to be released until they have the models to support the codex, so they are releasing the white dwarf codex as a temporary fix repeating the history behind blood angels and warriors of chaos.

The urgency behind them releasing SOB now instead of later is GW's desire to put the final nail in the coffin of the allies rule. That along with finecast delaying the release of SOB mineratures=white dwarf codex.

Yup. No more allies outside of Apoc.

schadenfreude wrote:The urgency behind them releasing SOB now instead of later is GW's desire to put the final nail in the coffin of the allies rule.

Yeah, I'm really feeling the love. The "Don't worry, Sisters players, GW hasn't forgotten you!" message sounds a bit hollow when it really means GW just wants to finish eradicating the Allies rule.

Allies aren't needed and really break the attempt at balancing mechanics of the game.

schadenfreude wrote:
GW has a lot of projects currently under production. Fine cast is a huge project that is going to eat an enormous amount of their time resulting in many modeling projects such as multi part SOB troops being delayed. The codex is just not going to be released until they have the models to support the codex, so they are releasing the white dwarf codex as a temporary fix repeating the history behind blood angels and warriors of chaos.

With the rumors of the past couple of months of people seeing plastic SoB on the sprews may suggest that the models are farther along in the production line that we may think. The models may be finished if not nearly finished as the rumors put the sculpting of them shortly after the start of the Gray Knight project. I just hope we will see plastic SoB sooner rather than later.

Xelkireth wrote:Allies aren't needed and really break the attempt at balancing mechanics of the game.

They are needed with an army that from the get go in 2nd edition was not meant to stand on its own.

If they have militia (a unit that's also been with them since 2nd) to make up some long range shooting it might be OK.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Xelkireth wrote:Allies aren't needed and really break the attempt at balancing mechanics of the game.

They are needed with an army that from the get go in 2nd edition was not meant to stand on its own.

If they have militia (a unit that's also been with them since 2nd) to make up some long range shooting it might be OK.

And I expect, that the army will be able to stand on its own, come the new WDs.

Its funny, the current pdf doesn't have allies. I downloaded it 2 weeks ago. It seems more about fixing inquisition rules. I truely believe this will not get more players into sisters, this is an update for existing players. I'm sad cuz I don't want to start an army I can't buy except online and metal. Thak god for eldar.

yakface wrote:And Melissia, yet again you keep acting like the release of this army list in White Dwarf changes when GW will release an actual codex.

]And you keep saying over and over again that every PDF army list they've ever released has sucked, .

Let's not make personally critical comments about other members, please.-Mannahnin

Of course it doesn't. GW has always released their full army codexes to help promote miniature releases. So regardless of whether or not this army list gets published in WD would have absolutely NO impact on when the actual codex gets released.

This. Seriously. But feel free to panic anyway... Remember everyone, if there is any news/rumor from GW it is the worst thing to ever happen. EVER.

So if it is going to take, say 2 years until they're able to finish sculpting all the miniatures why would you not want some sort of improvement over the existing codex during that time?

I know that I'll be called an apologist, but I'm excited about new material and an update for the sisters. We're not as bad off as necrons, but I would certainly love to see new things and/or an update.

Looking forward to the update to Sisters hopefully it will be good. Although the 3rd edition codex has aged pretty well and is still fairly good it could use an update. Only long ranged anti tank being in heavy support Exorcists could use changing.

yakface wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote:Very disappointing news. I wasn't at all impressed with the WD Blood Angel codex. Come to think of it, the Warriors of Chaos WD army book sucked, too ...

Again, the Blood Angel WD army list was a big improvement over the (then) current Blood Angel book. Was it as good as the Blood Angels codex actually turned out to be? No, but I think a whole LOT of this stems from the fact that the Blood Angel WD army list was a sibling to the (undeniably) weak Dark Angels codex rather than simply because it was published in White Dwarf.

If the Sisters of Battle army list in WD was co-designed alongside the Grey Knight book then there's no reason it shouldn't be at roughly the same level of 'power' as the Grey Knights.


And Melissia, yet again you keep acting like the release of this army list in White Dwarf changes when GW will release an actual codex. Of course it doesn't. GW has always released their full army codexes to help promote miniature releases. So regardless of whether or not this army list gets published in WD would have absolutely NO impact on when the actual codex gets released.

And you keep saying over and over again that every PDF army list they've ever released has sucked, but for the 1,000th time: The last 40K army list they released via White Dwarf (Blood Angels) was a massive improvement over the existing codex at the time.

So if it is going to take, say 2 years until they're able to finish sculpting all the miniatures why would you not want some sort of improvement over the existing codex during that time?

While the WD BA codex was an improvement over its 3rd Edition counterpart, many books could easily be better than those pamphlet codices. There were many glaring problems with that list stemming mostly from it piggy backing off of the DA codex. It used many of the same units and concepts from the DA, and shoe horned BA units from the old book. Worse it screwed with a very neat mechanic (Red Thirst/Black Rage). Then overcosting units to make up for the cost of a super melee unit that not everyone wanted was even worse. I was contempt with using the 4th Edition Space Marines codex with my BA characters, special BA units, and widespread FC. The WD dex neutered that in the wake of the new 40k "simplifying" age. Thus making the book not only a cheap rehash, but creating a band-aid that was never really needed.

You may say massive improvement, but I see horrible bland filler. In GW's defense these WD Codices may have been done as a "testing the waters" type of deal. However, I do not buy that. In reality it was a way for them to make a quick buck.

Cheers.

BTW Love the avatar.

Farseer Jenkins wrote:and they learned from the eldar codex that the book just before a rules release is better off saved till after

The problem with the 4th edition Eldar codex wasn't that it was released too close to 5th. The problem with the Eldar codex was that it wasn't released close enough. i.e. GW had started to get some really basic ideas about what they wanted to do in 5th, and as a result started to play around with some new stuff in the codex. But they still hadn't really gotten beyond the most basic formative stage... and so you ended up with nonsense like the Fleet/Run mess. If the Eldar codex had come out closer to 5th's release, then the codex would have been more in line with the eventual 5th edition rulebook and things like Fleet would have been headed off without anyone even realizing that there had been a potential problem.



Heard one idea today that I thought had some merit as to why GW might be doing this. The guy spouting the theory noted that Necrons and Sisters are the only two 3rd edition codices left, and thought that GW might be getting a bit panicky to make all of the 3rd edition books go away before 6th came out. The current belief is that Necrons are due out shortly. If 6th is really due out next summer, then GW will only have a short bit after Necrons to get Sisters out, and presumably for some reason they don't think that's feasible - though why is anyone's guess, since they'd still have enough time to do another codex if they wanted to. At the moment, I find it to be the most convincing theory that I've heard/seen/read.

Blood of Kittens has posted a picture that apparently relates to the Sisters of Battle WD-dex. The meanings appear to be as follows: {HQ} {Unit} {Confessor} {Henchman} {Reroll} {Hits} {Wounds}.

Phototoxin wrote:Hmm... sisters vs crons for a new boxed set... Assault on Sanctuary 101 as the battle/narritive??... I see possiblities..

The new box set has already been decided. It is going to be SM vs SM because that is what most players want.

AlexHolker wrote:Blood of Kittens has posted a picture that apparently relates to the Sisters of Battle WD-dex. The meanings appear to be as follows: {HQ} {Unit} {Confessor} {Henchman} {Reroll} {Hits} {Wounds}.

Warseer and Heresy online are still mulling over that pic. Here's a post from Heresy-Online that did some detective work that to a degree confirmed the guesses on the pic...

SoB rumor round up thread ( http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91175 ) - pg. 27, post 262, by Grogbart

"Concerning that bloody Kitten-Rumour.

I am not good with riddles, but I figured the easiest way to get pictures to make one: Google picture search!

searched for 'Confessor' and got her pic.
searched for 'Unit' got that g unit pic.
searched for 'Henchman' got the pic.
same for 'Sisyphus' and perhaps most interesting to those wanting to decipher this rumour I found those stiched cuts by searching for 'Wounds'.

As for HQ and those HTMLs with the 'A' underneath, no idea.
For the HQ I suspect he already had that pic in mind, or he made a really thoroughly search to find something thats not a corporate Headquaters Building picture."

soon after that post this was a response the the html question

AlexHolker;998513 wrote:The HTMLs and so on is part of this picture, describing the HITS algorithm. (Thanks, Tin Eye!)

In other words, those last two pictures are "Hits" and "Wounds".

The Sisyphus picture might mean "Reroll".

Also on the question on weather or not if this WD codex will have new models or not, and I'm referring to any kind of model plastic kit, finecast, repackage, anything.

If not could GW use the the WD codex release as a marketing tool for the eventual C:SoB and possibly have a list or make an announcement in the WD's showing off the SoB getting new plastic kits and how they will be combined? We might get a confirmation on the plastic SoB kit on how many will be in it and how many different units it can make. Even better yet, if no models, will it have pictures of the new plastic SoB kits or will they reuse the metal ones that they have?

Just speculatory on the possibility of GW using it as a sneak peak or a preview as a marketing tool for the new plastic kits that SoB could be getting later.

fox-light713 wrote:If not could GW use the the WD codex release as a marketing tool for the eventual C:SoB and possibly have a list or make an announcement in the WD's showing off the SoB getting new plastic kits and how they will be combined? We might get a confirmation on the plastic SoB kit on how many will be in it and how many different units it can make. Even better yet, if no models, will it have pictures of the new plastic SoB kits or will they reuse the metal ones that they have?

Just speculatory on the possibility of GW using it as a sneak peak or a preview as a marketing tool for the new plastic kits that SoB could be getting later.

If GW doesn't release the models with the WD codex, then I strongly doubt that they'll show them off. GW's been really fanatical about not previewing stuff until the last minute lately, and these days the only time you might see something before the "coming next month" announcement in WD is at Game Day. If I remember correctly, none of the Sisters stuff has showed up in Finecast, which suggests that GW might be about to replace it all (the Necrons don't appear to have any Finecast figures yet either). But it's merely speculation at this point, and nothing's confirmed until GW gives us an actual release date for new figures.

I agree with fox-light713.

GW's objective is to produce all mass market models and vehicles as polystyrene kits because that method offers the best balance of production cost and utility to the player. Ideally they want to manufacture everything as polystyrene.

The Finecast models are a stop gap measure intended to replace metal with a cheaper material without the expense of creating new masters for injection moulding. The PR around Finecast is to justify the large price increase that accompanied their introduction.

If the entire new SoB line-up is being sculpted from scratch there is no reason not to do everything as polystyrene, as long as GW are prepared for the investment in the moulds.

The potential value of the new moulds depends on how many copies of each sprue GW think they can sell. They can gather information from a WD codex release to judge the interest in SoB.

I'm actually interested in the changes the Exorcist will obviously go through. Both ruleswise and modelwise. D6 S8 AP1 is really the army's only long ranged anti-tank weaponry, which actually causes much crying despite it maybe getting 2-3 shots off a turn.

As for the model I like the current version of it, and the Forgeworld one kind of worries me if the model is to go in that direction.

n0t_u wrote:I'm actually interested in the changes the Exorcist will obviously go through. Both ruleswise and modelwise. D6 S8 AP1 is really the army's only long ranged anti-tank weaponry, which actually causes much crying despite it maybe getting 2-3 shots off a turn.

That and TLOS from the tip of the tallest organ pipe, which is treated as a turret. So its easy to see everyone else and not grant cover saves while hiding the exorcist's hull behind a vehicle.

They will probably have to nerf Exorcists, Divine Guidance, and Spirit of the Martyr.

If they do, I will cry.