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Made in us
Been Around the Block





Salt Lake City

I finished a 65 player tournament this weekend (wargames for warriors)and placed 6th (going 5-1) with a Metallica-Raven list.

GSC 59-28 win (went second)
DE 39-30 win (went second)
White scars 57-35 win (went second)
Raven Guard 48-93 loss (went first)
Deamons 65-63 win (went first)
Death Guard 55-35 win (went second)

Spoiler:


++ Super-Heavy Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [61 PL, 9CP, 1,210pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Household Choice: Questor Mechanicus
. House Raven

+ Lord of War +

Armiger Warglaives [21 PL, -1CP, 420pts]: Knight of the Iron Cog
. Armiger Warglaive: Meltagun
. Armiger Warglaive: Meltagun
. Armiger Warglaive: Meltagun

Knight Moiraxes [16 PL, -1CP, 310pts]: Knight of the Iron Cog
. Knight Moirax: 2x Graviton Pulsar
. Knight Moirax: 2x Graviton Pulsar

Questoris Knight Magaera [24 PL, -1CP, 480pts]: Character (Knight Lance), Heirloom (Raven): Spirit of Kolossi, Knight of the Iron Cog, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Landstrider
. Hekaton Siege Claw and Twin Rad-Cleanser

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [38 PL, -2CP, 790pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

Forge World Choice: Forge World: Metalica

+ Agents of the Imperium +

Inquisitor Eisenhorn [5 PL, 85pts]: 4) Mental Interrogation, 6) Castigation

+ HQ +

Tech-Priest Dominus [5 PL, 100pts]: Artisans, Macrostubber, Volkite Blaster

Tech-Priest Manipulus [6 PL, 105pts]: Logi, Magnarail lance

+ Troops +

Skitarii Rangers [2 PL, 55pts]
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle
. 3x Skitarii Ranger: 3x Galvanic Rifle
. Skitarii Ranger (Transuranic Arquebus): Transuranic Arquebus

Skitarii Rangers [8 PL, 195pts]: Omnispex
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle
. 17x Skitarii Ranger: 17x Galvanic Rifle
. 2x Skitarii Ranger (Transuranic Arquebus): 2x Transuranic Arquebus

Skitarii Vanguards [8 PL, 165pts]: Omnispex
. 19x Skitarii Vanguard: 19x Radium Carbine
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

+ Elites +

Sicarian Infiltrators [4 PL, 85pts]
. Infiltrator Princeps (Stub/Sword)
. 4x Sicarian Infiltrator (Stub/Sword): 4x Power Sword, 4x Stubcarbine

++ Total: [99 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++


I took engage in all fonts, and grind them down most of the games. Followed by psychic ritual when they didn't have any psykers, or raise the banners against the death guard.

Canticles are solid gold on Knights! The Metallica strats for auto advancing 6",expanding the radiation 6" and enriched rounds are the big money makers. Hats off to my opponents for being amazingly great men. I had a blast all weekend!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/20 15:54:51


 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






@Suzuteo cheers. I think I just need more games to be honest

@fish well done dude. Interesting combo of units you’ve taken
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





So I had a quick pick up game on Wednesday against a pretty typical 1500 pts of Drucharii.

I don't have all the details because I didn't ask and nothing sounded sus, except for his explanations of the charge phase which I'll come to later. I'm still getting to grips with the new codex and my list is more of a crusade list on the competitive side than attempt to win any kind of GT, so humour me

Drucharii was rought:

Triple Patrol: Black heart, poisoned tongue, cult of strife.

10 x wyches with succubus (whip + blood dancer) in a dark lance Raider
10 true born warriors in a dark lance Raider
Archon + court (4 x slyth, 3 x ur-ghuls, 1 Lhamaen) in a dark lance Raider
Drahazar + 5 incubi in a Venom
5 x warriors in a Venom
at least 8 Reavers, as many heat lances as he could fit in that squad.
5 x Mandrakes

Think that was it, I was so late to the venue didn't have much time to prep or chew the cud lol

My list was:

Metallica Battalion

Manipulus + first-hand field testing on lance
Manipulus with Lance
Enginseer

10 x Rangers, 1 x arquebus, 1 x arc rifle
10 x Rangers, 1 x arquebus, 1 x arc rifle
5 x Vanguard
5 x Vanguard
5 x Vanguard

Datasmith with Uncreator Gauntlet + Ashrunner wlt (yes, you read that right)
10 x Ruststalkers with FPTC + Temporcopia

9 x Sterylizors
7 x Raiders
7 x Raiders

2 x Fistellans with Incendines
Disintegrator with Belleros

Mission was Priority Target (Take and hold primary) essentially 5 objectives, one in each corner and one in the middle, with limited movement of of them aside from the middle one that stays where it is. he arranged the mission in advance so I had no idea what I was getting into in advance but I think it suited me pretty well.

Secondaries
I picked the mission secondary (each person designates one of the objectives on their side as a priority, 3 pts for holding one of them, 5 for holding both per turn)
retrieve octarius data
Eradication of the flesh

Spoiler:

I figured eradication of the flesh would be a good bet given DE are pretty flimsy and there'd be a decent amount of bodies, but as it turned out most infantry was in a transport until the end of turn two so I got nothing for the first two turns but scored it pretty easy for the remaining 3. Mission secondary was almost a no-brainer, I parked my disintegrator with its enginseer babysitter on the objective most in my deployment mostly out of LoS and scored at least 3pts for every turn bar the last one as he failed to get enough dark lances to bear on it before I killed them. Managed to get it down to 1 wound turn 2 but I just double healed it next turn and he gave up on it after that as most of his raiders were either not in a position to target or down brackets so they couldnt hit well enough.

My gameplan was essentially keep robots and datasmith as a counter charge for the center objective and out of LoS of the dark lances until I could thin them out. I got first turn so I pre-moved + move and advance one squad of raiders onto the middle and another onto one of his objectives. I then advanced my ruststalkers onto my own other objective, popped FPTC and they stayed there the entire game being out of the way enough and tough enough for regular weapons to do anything.

The reavers tried to clear my raiders off the middle objective, he charged them trying to force me to vacate it with obliqua so he could move on, but this backfired as I moved towards his priority objective and scored the full 5 for that secondary in a subsequent turn. He didn't have any deep strikers bar the Mandrakes which he was using for RoD as well (He got all 4 quarters) so I steadily moved all my troops forward, being able to move all rangers without any penalty gave me so many options. I essentially replaced raiders on the middle objective with vanguard each time he cleared them off.

Turn 3 was his biggest play. He tried to move his raider full of wyches to get my ruststalkers, but I dropped the pteraxii down near the center, popped the raider with flamers plus other stuff then had the robots just flame the enter squad into nothing. A single squad of 5 vanguard took out the succubus which i'm sure felt not so great. Then Draz and his incubi essential cleared every pteraxii and troop off the center, but by turn 4 i'd already maxed my primary so I didn't need it at that point and still held 3 of the 5 without it, I just had to make sure he didn't have more than me at any point. Unfortunately, he'd dropped the 5-man on his other objective and I had nothing to get them off from that distance, the raiders there were gone by turn 2 but had done their job of stalling and holding an objective to lessen the pressure on keeping the centre, everything else was tied up dealing with the rest of the army, but that was the same story with my ruststalkers for him. So he held that one til the end.

When he reached my priority objective I had a squad of rangers and vanguard on there as well so he only managed to only contest til the last turn where there was one slyth left with the archon and a venom vs my disintegrator and enginseer, I just had to kill the slyth to contest it so he didn't get the 5 points that would have won him the match.

Turn 4 I'd already maxed primary so moved my ruststalkers to do ROD in his corner, I only got 3 in total, didn't manage to get any infantry into the bottom corner.



Take aways:
- Turns out a couple of untargetable Manipulus with str 7/8 ap -3 3/4 dmg 36" range weapons that hit on 2s are pretty good at consistently plinking out vehicles that dont have high invulns and just about anything else as well, also almost immune from being targeted by just about anything with the range they can sit and plink from with their ranger bodyguards. Arc rifles and arquebus in ranger squads also contributed significantly. Especially ap -3 arc rifles at 3 dmg.

- Datasmith was there as he's intended to be my fluffy Crusade leader with his retinue of robots, he plinked a few things with his gamma pistol but also mulched straight through a venom on the center objective dealing 12 wounds in one round of combat! Not super competitive I know but I need to try it out.

- I had intentionally not taken maybe warlord traits and relics for my HQs, Having an untargetable str 8 -3 4dmg gun that hits on 2s at 36 was surprisingly useful. But I wanted to see what the army could do with minimal support. I think going forward I'd take something to allow some form of fallback and shoot as there were numerous situations I could have done with being able to fallback and still do something. Metallica has lots of great relics and wlt, but they're all quite...in your face, which two manipulus buffing rangers dont want to be, so I think I can save some cp there. I might take necromechanic on the enginseer or something to allow the disintegrator to fall back and fire as thats a lot of firepower to not get to use as it's almost all blast.

- I'm not sure i'll take a full squad of sterylizors again, the flamers are great, but it's so hard to find space to fit them all and they're pretty damn expensive points wise too. Ive thought about infiltrators and while I think they'd be useful, they're quite inflexible in their forward deployment and quite expensive if you compare them to raiders. A raider squad can easily move 25" first turn if you need them to, or you can not pre-game them and hold them back. They have options, infiltrators as good as they are you either deployment forward and hope they dont die before they do anything or you keep thtme in your deployment, which seems a waste.

-The belleros...I dunno it didn't do loads and would do even less actively if I could have hidden it completely. But It gives me the option of eradication of the flesh every game if there's nothing easier. And everyone hates stuff that hides and shoots stuff with impunity

Overall result was 78 - 73 I think, so pretty damn close, was a great game. We both made loads of mistakes so there was a lot of leeway given on both sides.

I forgot rad saturation even existed for the entire game which would have made a big difference against Drucharii lol I think I used an Omnispex to ignore dense cover as well >.> Oh well.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/20 15:04:18


 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






How do we feel about vanguard and ironstriders since the faq changes?
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






Ironstriders are still very good, especially in Mars. Closer to Dunecrawlers though if you want a bit more staying power (and awakening 2 of those with Mars is not that bad either).
Vanguards are decidedly MEH now imo, the strat is basically worthless. What was the math.. 2 CP for 7 wounds?
Nah. The double nerf was too much.

Data author of DA/AdM on Battlescribe
Report bugs here:
https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/issues 
   
Made in de
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





 Thairne wrote:
Ironstriders are still very good, especially in Mars. Closer to Dunecrawlers though if you want a bit more staying power (and awakening 2 of those with Mars is not that bad either).
Vanguards are decidedly MEH now imo, the strat is basically worthless. What was the math.. 2 CP for 7 wounds?
Nah. The double nerf was too much.


2cp for 2-5 wounds on average targets for me, when you take into account hits that would wound anyway
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

Yeah, the math on Enriched Rounds is decidedly mediocre. That being said, I've found that units of 10 are easier to maximize the CP-efficiency and the strat is actually (almost exclusively) worthwhile against orks. Likewise, units of 10 have an easier time being eligible for Acquisition At Any Cost now that it requires "wholly within".

Vanguard are still better than Rangers at helping units capture objectives: they can advance and shoot to get to objectives faster, and can charge to provide Rad Saturation for real assault units. That doesn't shine in typical builds of Mars and Lucius, but it's much stronger in Metalica and Ryza.

   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Cool cheers folks

Think I’m going to cut vanguard for now and take 4 las chickens but no more

Will see how that performs
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





Vanguard are still easily our best chaff clearer and much better at doing what they're designed to do which is run forward and put pressure on while still being able to shoot accurately.

I feel like they work better in MSU as enriched might still be double the chance to auto wound, but that chance was only 18% to begin with, if they were MW it'd be a different story.

I like Ironstriders still, but you need to give your opponent other targets because they die really really easily. The type of weapons targetting them we have no real defense against, only takes 1 or 2 anti-armour weapons and they're gone. Even primaris bolters can easily take them down in the right phase.

Be nice if we had a proper sturdy tank that had some great guns; Instead of one or the other lol
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






well there's the onager for that.. 11W and T7 is not stellar, but a 5++ with repairs is nice. And for 125 pts with a Neutron Laser he's not half bad - especially if you stick an enginseer behind two to repair and awaken them.

Data author of DA/AdM on Battlescribe
Report bugs here:
https://github.com/BSData/wh40k/issues 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan



UK

What is the consensus of Serby Sulphurhounds in a Rad-Saturated forgeworld?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

It's not great. By themselves, Sulphur Hounds don't fit into the strongest builds because they're worse at anti-infantry than Rangers. Assuming you're interested in Luminary Suffusion, there's anti-synergy because its effect is mutually exclusive with Radiant Disciples.

After you've invested your faction traits and enough Sulphurhounds to implement the combo, what's your pay off? You're investing all this to improve your anti-infantry capacity, when you could just take more anti-infantry units.

That being said, Sulphurhounds are not bad units in themselves. I could see a horde of Hounds with some Mars Striders being perfectly reasonable. Another amusing factor is that Kastelans can benefit from Radiant Disciples to be functionally T8.


On the point of tanks, I will second that Onagers with Neutron Lasers and Phosphor have performed extremely well for me. They don't have the upfront damage of the Ironstrider, but they are awful nuisance to kill.

   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan



UK

But as a 70pt missile you can launch at a problem unit to reduce T by 1. Guaranteed 18"

It's offensive / defensive buffs aren't mutually exclusive, the thing you challenge doesn't have to be next to the thing that will return fire.

But they are expensive and feel slow without that free scout move. Oh and no sabres

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





Northumberland

I'm currently building up some more skitarii. What's the consensus on loadouts now?

I've noticed a lot of the 20 hordes not having anything.

I'm thinking of running 10 rangers, 10 vanguard, 5 vanguard.

Is the arquebus still seeing action for rangers? I know the arc rifle got a decent buff in the new codex, is it worth taking or is it still less compared to plasma?

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

Razerous wrote:But as a 70pt missile you can launch at a problem unit to reduce T by 1. Guaranteed 18"

It's offensive / defensive buffs aren't mutually exclusive, the thing you challenge doesn't have to be next to the thing that will return fire.

But they are expensive and feel slow without that free scout move. Oh and no sabres
It begs the question, how valuable is -1 T on an infantry unit compared to just getting more guns?

28 Rangers without Rad Saturation: 18.76 wounds against T4 before saves
vs
20 Rangers with Rad Saturation: 17.956 wounds against T4 before saves
3 Hounds with Rad Saturation: 9.2795 wounds against T4 before saves

That's a 45% damage improvement, which actually surprised me. So maybe the strategy has legs. There are two problems: first, the Fast Attack slots are pretty crowded, but there are several ways around this. Secondly, the top builds have demonstrated overwhelming firepower without this combo so it's almost certainly redundant. Still, it seems fun.

You probably want the Sulphurhounds in their own detachment so you can pick a more useful dogma for the rest of the army. That's not terrible because most lists were already taking a couple patrols. So, a minimum Patrol is a Marshall, 5 Vanguard, and 2x3 Hounds for 225 points and 2 CP. Maybe you take 3x5 Vanguard, for a total of 305 points. That's really not a bad package; each component is already pulling their own weight, and you'd spend 2CP for a 45% damage improvement as a stratagem.

Olthannon wrote:I'm currently building up some more skitarii. What's the consensus on loadouts now?

I've noticed a lot of the 20 hordes not having anything.

I'm thinking of running 10 rangers, 10 vanguard, 5 vanguard.

Is the arquebus still seeing action for rangers? I know the arc rifle got a decent buff in the new codex, is it worth taking or is it still less compared to plasma?
Right now, Rangers really want to be in hordes of 20 without any special weapons in order to maximize their stratagem. The Arquebus is just awful, don't even bother with it. The Vanguard are in a weird place, but throw-away units of 5 or 10 aren't unreasonable. Their stratagem got dumpstered, so special weapons may have some uses. The Arc Rifle is particularly interesting for its stratagem's utility, but there's some anti-synergy on Vanguard since it's not an Assault weapon.

   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






@darkhound

Are you finding las chickens to be valuable at the moment?

I speak to some people and they suggest i cut them all from my lists. But then I play against an army like ironhands dread spam and regret not taking any

I’m still tinkering flier lists between 4-6 to try and squeeze more things in. I might just go back to that list you and I spoke about the other week
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

General vs specific

If you only face dreadnaught spam lists weapons designed to kill them will overperform and are worth more things that kill other things are worth less. This is called local meta it can have a huge impact.

Advice most players give is general - assuming I face a variety of opponent's and units based on the global meta what will be the better weapons this will skew away from dreadnaught spam (e.g. I played a six round tourney a couple of weekends ago and encountered only 2 dreadnaughts in a single round.) Optimising for dreadnaughts would weaken my list

So yes skewing your list to a local meta will help you win games but it won't help if you go to a more competitive environment or a different location.

I'm not keen on the multiple flyer list I played against a varient of it and its pretty vulnerable a lot of missions you really want to hold the midboard and I feel like you get more shooting efficiency out of our other vehicles

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/24 21:50:20


 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






I’ve got a GT list deadline in a couple of days and I just can’t make up my mind

But I’m running 4+ fliers for sure cause it’s the best painted things in my army and they are fairly new.

I’m ok with it being a bit of a handicap just looking to try and optimise a bit. General list advice is welcome. Do people find Mars las chickens useful these days I wonder


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And do we need melee counterpunches as admech or can we just gunline our way to the win?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/24 22:28:04


 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan



UK

 DarkHound wrote:
Spoiler:
Razerous wrote:But as a 70pt missile you can launch at a problem unit to reduce T by 1. Guaranteed 18"

It's offensive / defensive buffs aren't mutually exclusive, the thing you challenge doesn't have to be next to the thing that will return fire.

But they are expensive and feel slow without that free scout move. Oh and no sabres
It begs the question, how valuable is -1 T on an infantry unit compared to just getting more guns?

28 Rangers without Rad Saturation: 18.76 wounds against T4 before saves
vs
20 Rangers with Rad Saturation: 17.956 wounds against T4 before saves
3 Hounds with Rad Saturation: 9.2795 wounds against T4 before saves

That's a 45% damage improvement, which actually surprised me. So maybe the strategy has legs. There are two problems: first, the Fast Attack slots are pretty crowded, but there are several ways around this. Secondly, the top builds have demonstrated overwhelming firepower without this combo so it's almost certainly redundant. Still, it seems fun.

You probably want the Sulphurhounds in their own detachment so you can pick a more useful dogma for the rest of the army. That's not terrible because most lists were already taking a couple patrols. So, a minimum Patrol is a Marshall, 5 Vanguard, and 2x3 Hounds for 225 points and 2 CP. Maybe you take 3x5 Vanguard, for a total of 305 points. That's really not a bad package; each component is already pulling their own weight, and you'd spend 2CP for a 45% damage improvement as a stratagem.

Olthannon wrote:I'm currently building up some more skitarii. What's the consensus on loadouts now?

I've noticed a lot of the 20 hordes not having anything.

I'm thinking of running 10 rangers, 10 vanguard, 5 vanguard.

Is the arquebus still seeing action for rangers? I know the arc rifle got a decent buff in the new codex, is it worth taking or is it still less compared to plasma?
Right now, Rangers really want to be in hordes of 20 without any special weapons in order to maximize their stratagem. The Arquebus is just awful, don't even bother with it. The Vanguard are in a weird place, but throw-away units of 5 or 10 aren't unreasonable. Their stratagem got dumpstered, so special weapons may have some uses. The Arc Rifle is particularly interesting for its stratagem's utility, but there's some anti-synergy on Vanguard since it's not an Assault weapon.
I've also since realised it's an either or with the 3" anti-toughness or the Sacrificing Weaponary.. and an extra +1 Str & AP for Vanguard wins hands down.

Enriched Rounds is 1CP per 10 auto wounds, per 10 models, taken off your successful hits. That the auto wounds come with AP-1 (or AP-2) is all the better!

Volley Fire is made for Wrath of Mars. You can go down to 15-strong rangers (casualties) & with a simple marshal (no doctrinas) max out 6 MW. At 30-42" range

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/25 00:09:51


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

 Ideasweasel wrote:
I’ve got a GT list deadline in a couple of days and I just can’t make up my mind

But I’m running 4+ fliers for sure cause it’s the best painted things in my army and they are fairly new.

I’m ok with it being a bit of a handicap just looking to try and optimise a bit. General list advice is welcome. Do people find Mars las chickens useful these days I wonder


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And do we need melee counterpunches as admech or can we just gunline our way to the win?


Melee in some form is useful again for holding an objective. I mean we have raiders/electropriests/hoplites pure gunline is gonna lose those primarys and often struggle with secondary if your opponent doesn't offer aa kill mission
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





Northumberland

@DarkHound - thanks! I went for the arc rifle in the end, see how it pays off in the eventual..

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





Point for point Raiders are easily our best objective takers imo. T4, 4+, 5++ 2W assault weapons 4/5 attacks each at str 4 ap -1. And on top of that they can still be buffed by a Manipulus for extra range and ap on their sniper weapons and advance and charge and still shoot at no penalty.

They're not putting out the volume Rangers and Vanguard are and they're not obsec or able to perform most actions, but you can worry about that while they're holding the objective they just moved 30" T1 to claim. They're certainly pose enough of a threat that the rest of your army loses some heat.
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

Ah, I've not experienced Raiders as great objective takers. Their melee profile is decent for bullying Guardsman, and that's not nothing. However, you into a catch 22 with objectives involved. The things they can actually bully are almost always ObSec so you don't win the objective. Units holding objectives that aren't ObSec are usually tough hombres that'll beat the Raiders.

Right now, AdMech have such tremendous fire superiority that they can afford to forego actual melee units. Raiders and Infiltrators are fine skirmishers for finishing off crippled units, but principally they're there to control space. The act as speed bumps against enemy melee to buy time for the Rangers/Ironstriders. They don't actually cause damage as a melee threat.

If the meta shifts, or nerfs come in, such that overwhelming firepower doesn't work, then we'll see more Ryza and Stygies assault units. We do have serious melee units in Ruststalkers and Fulgerites (and maybe even Ryza Dragoons), but they've just been unnecessary so far.

   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






@DarkHound
Some people are spamming Sicarians, though I personally am not sure how I feel about that, given you can only give Temporcopia to one unit.
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






I’ll continue to bring guns to a knife fight
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





 DarkHound wrote:
Ah, I've not experienced Raiders as great objective takers. Their melee profile is decent for bullying Guardsman, and that's not nothing. However, you into a catch 22 with objectives involved. The things they can actually bully are almost always ObSec so you don't win the objective. Units holding objectives that aren't ObSec are usually tough hombres that'll beat the Raiders.

Right now, AdMech have such tremendous fire superiority that they can afford to forego actual melee units. Raiders and Infiltrators are fine skirmishers for finishing off crippled units, but principally they're there to control space. The act as speed bumps against enemy melee to buy time for the Rangers/Ironstriders. They don't actually cause damage as a melee threat.

If the meta shifts, or nerfs come in, such that overwhelming firepower doesn't work, then we'll see more Ryza and Stygies assault units. We do have serious melee units in Ruststalkers and Fulgerites (and maybe even Ryza Dragoons), but they've just been unnecessary so far.


6-7 Raiders prevent any other models from getting on an objective, so you don't initially need them to be obsec. They can also still fire and charge after that 30" of movement so the usual 3-5 marine squads and flimsy T3 obsec you can thin out quite well before you have to really worry about them getting on the objective. Your opponent cant control an objective if they're not on it, regardless of obsec

It does depend on what you're up against as to how much of a swiss army knife Raiders are, but for their points they're decent against anything and anything T3 or T4 they still have the volume and ap to do something about and the saves and wounds to stay put. Even against high toughness they still have volume of shots and MW on wounds of a 6 to tip towards being more useful. But yeah their greatest asset is for them to be wherever you need them to be when you need them to be and still do something when they get there.
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






So in a slightly bizarre turn of events I’m somehow doing ok in my local gaming league. I’ve beaten some good players too. Hopefully it continues


I have another GT in a few days and I’m taking the below.

Has anyone had much experience with the codex specific secondaries and how successful have you been finding them. I tend to sometimes take flesh but am wary of the others

So far I’ve been sticking with my staple of Engage Rod and a pick depending on my fancy. But I’ve been lucky with grind occasionally, sometimes I think I need a guaranteed 3rd locked in

Any thoughts?

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [65 PL, 1,285pts, 10CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Forge World Choice: Forge World: Mars

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Archeotech Specialist [-1CP]: Archeotech Specialist

Stratagem: Host of the Intermediary [-1CP]: Host of the Intermediary

+ HQ +

Skitarii Marshal [3 PL, 45pts]: Relic: Exemplar's Eternity, Warlord, Warlord Trait (Codex 2): Battle-Sphere Uplink

Technoarcheologist [4 PL, 80pts]: Artisans, Relic: Raiment of the Technomartyr

+ Troops +

Skitarii Rangers [8 PL, 165pts]: Omnispex
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle, Host of the Intermediary, Warlord Trait (Codex 3): Programmed Retreat
. 19x Skitarii Ranger: 19x Galvanic Rifle

Skitarii Rangers [8 PL, 165pts]: Omnispex
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle
. 19x Skitarii Ranger: 19x Galvanic Rifle

+ Elites +

Sicarian Infiltrators [4 PL, 85pts]
. Infiltrator Princeps (Flechette/Taser)
. 4x Sicarian Infiltrator (Flechette/Taser): 4x Flechette Blaster, 4x Taser Goad

Sicarian Infiltrators [4 PL, 85pts]
. Infiltrator Princeps (Flechette/Taser)
. 4x Sicarian Infiltrator (Flechette/Taser): 4x Flechette Blaster, 4x Taser Goad

+ Fast Attack +

Ironstrider Ballistarii [8 PL, 150pts]
. Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Lascannon
. Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Lascannon

Ironstrider Ballistarii [8 PL, 150pts]
. Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Lascannon
. Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Lascannon

+ Flyer +

Archaeopter Stratoraptor [9 PL, 180pts]: Chaff Launcher

Archaeopter Stratoraptor [9 PL, 180pts]: Chaff Launcher

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [34 PL, 714pts, -2CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

Forge World Choice: Forge World: Mars

+ HQ +

Tech-Priest Manipulus [6 PL, 100pts]: Magi, Magnarail lance

+ Troops +

Skitarii Vanguards [8 PL, 165pts]: Omnispex
. 19x Skitarii Vanguard: 19x Radium Carbine
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

+ Fast Attack +

Serberys Raiders [6 PL, 149pts]: Enhanced Data-Tether, Serberys Raider Alpha
. 8x Serberys Raider: 8x Cavalry Sabre, 8x Clawed Limbs, 8x Galvanic Carbine

+ Flyer +

Archaeopter Fusilave [7 PL, 150pts]: Chaff Launcher

Archaeopter Fusilave [7 PL, 150pts]: Chaff Launcher

++ Total: [99 PL, 8CP, 1,999pts] ++
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii





Can I get some feedback on this list please? (Typed up since I'm on my works PC)

MARS

HQx3

Marshal (Warlord)
- WLT - Firepoint Telemetry
- Relic - Exemplars Eternity

Manipulus
- Magrail lance
- Logi

Technoarcheologist
- Genetors


Brotherhood of cog

Enginseer
-WLT - Necromechanic


Imperial Agent
- Celuxus assassin


Troops

Breachers x5
-Heavy arc rifle
-Hydraulic claw

Breachers x5
-Heavy arc rifle
-Hydraulic claw

Rangers x20
-WLT - Battle-Sphere Uplink


Elites

Infiltrator x5
- Flechette/Taser

Infiltrator x5
- Flechette/Taser


Fast

Dragoons x4
-Taser Lance


Heavy

Dunecrawler
-Neutron laser and stubber

Dunecrawler
-Neutron laser and stubber

Dunecrawler
-Icarus array


Flyers

Fusilave
-Chaff Launcher

Fusilave
-Chaff Launcher



I'm sure it's obvious , but the plan here is to start the infiltrators mid field, move up the board with rangers supported by manipulus and marshal and breachers supported by technoarcheologist.

Technoarcheologust turns on advanced ready for t2 onwards to give the breachers a 6+++, rangers have save from canticles and doctrina and move and shoot at full stat.

dragoons hang back as counter charge, cover back lines and bully the middle if needed.

Dunecrawers sta back but move to fire babysat by engineseer show can repair and awaken twice a turn if needed.

Bombers bomb, take all fronts for me and slow down priority threats.

The list is supposed to be reasonably durable, versatile and packs both melee and shooting punch. Assassin is for teleport homers as he can be very tanky and hard to shift.

I've yet to play 2k on the tabletop in 9th due to covid so I'm very down on actual experience ATM.

Cheers lads.

Approx armies
6000pts AdMech (Main army)
6000pts Black Templars (original army)
3500pts Death Guard (lazy side project)
2000pts Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
1500pts Harlequins (fun side project)
 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





You're using 2 x HQs, 2 x WLT a relic and Holy order that you can only use on one squad in your army? lol I think you might be overcommitting. As soon as that blob of 20 rangers is gone all those buffs are useless.

If I were up against that i'd be ignoring the breachers because HAR are naff this edition and Breachers couldn't hit a barn door with a bazooka. Literally the first things to die in your list will be those rangers and the infiltrators.

Eeven with a 2+ and ignoring ap1-2 they're priority target number 1 so dedicating a significant portion of firepower is a no brainer. Then you're left with a single slow-moving breacher squad per turn to do all your actions. You need more infantry pressure imo.
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






 laam999 wrote:
Can I get some feedback on this list please? (Typed up since I'm on my works PC)

Spoiler:
MARS

HQx3

Marshal (Warlord)
- WLT - Firepoint Telemetry
- Relic - Exemplars Eternity

Manipulus
- Magrail lance
- Logi

Technoarcheologist
- Genetors


Brotherhood of cog

Enginseer
-WLT - Necromechanic


Imperial Agent
- Celuxus assassin


Troops

Breachers x5
-Heavy arc rifle
-Hydraulic claw

Breachers x5
-Heavy arc rifle
-Hydraulic claw

Rangers x20
-WLT - Battle-Sphere Uplink


Elites

Infiltrator x5
- Flechette/Taser

Infiltrator x5
- Flechette/Taser


Fast

Dragoons x4
-Taser Lance


Heavy

Dunecrawler
-Neutron laser and stubber

Dunecrawler
-Neutron laser and stubber

Dunecrawler
-Icarus array


Flyers

Fusilave
-Chaff Launcher

Fusilave
-Chaff Launcher


I'm sure it's obvious , but the plan here is to start the infiltrators mid field, move up the board with rangers supported by manipulus and marshal and breachers supported by technoarcheologist.

Technoarcheologust turns on advanced ready for t2 onwards to give the breachers a 6+++, rangers have save from canticles and doctrina and move and shoot at full stat.

dragoons hang back as counter charge, cover back lines and bully the middle if needed.

Dunecrawers sta back but move to fire babysat by engineseer show can repair and awaken twice a turn if needed.

Bombers bomb, take all fronts for me and slow down priority threats.

The list is supposed to be reasonably durable, versatile and packs both melee and shooting punch. Assassin is for teleport homers as he can be very tanky and hard to shift.

I've yet to play 2k on the tabletop in 9th due to covid so I'm very down on actual experience ATM.

Cheers lads.

There's too much bone and not enough meat on this list.

Cut a unit of Breachers, a Crawler, and the Culexus. Add 10 Ruststalkers (you need something to fight and not just countercharge) and another blob of Rangers (you need more than one unit to buff). With the spare points, maybe a MSU of Vanguard?

Further cuts are the other unit of Breachers for 10x Pteraxii or 9x Raiders. Mars is strong because of its ability to spam mortal wounds on demand at any time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, this is how I feel about competitive at this point: https://youtu.be/D20d7-7j1bQ

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/06 20:37:01


 
   
 
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