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Tyrs13 wrote:Woot Chaos

Hopefully i will be able to make a cohesive 1ksons army now

you do realise ward already wrote a codex for that, don't you?
(it also helps greatly with just flat-out ignoring the "Draigo Debacle ©")

I like the idea about Kelly writing the next chaos codex (he did well with SW and nid's) I hope to see Abaddon more powerful and deffy's to be even better.

happygolucky wrote:I like the idea about Kelly writing the next chaos codex (he did well with SW and nid's) I hope to see Abaddon more powerful and deffy's to be even better.

Except Phil Kelly went nowhere near 'nids.

The Tyranid codex is a Cruddace created mess. I'd rather hope the Chaos Legions codex is nothing like this.

ah I see...

And Cruddace dose good codex's (E.G nids and guard)

Well Kelly did do orks and they are good (I do give my hat off for him for doing my precious orks winnable).

Bonde wrote:Do you guys think that the plastic terminators will be updated?
I could imagine seeing a new combi kit for Terminators/Obliterators, maybe only containing three models, but a fethload of extra bits to make Legion specific Terminators?

Or I just realized that the Obliterators will probably just be re-released in finecast :(

No way they're doing that. GW wouldn't replace a kit that recent. There will probably be an oblit rerelease or new model in Finecast.

For those talking about Phil Kelly - he had a hand in writing the previous, superior Tyranid codex.

I for one would like to see T5 oblits. They are too damn squishy at T4 and 75 points a piece. My oblits always get blasted by lascannons and other insta-death causing weapons before they can do much. (Yes, I put them in cover).

The current plastic Terminators are fine. The question is, will GW offer special parts to make cult Termies?

The more Alpha Legion the better

Anung Un Rama wrote:The current plastic Terminators are fine. The question is, will GW offer special parts to make cult Termies?

Probably not as there are already Forgeworld conversion kits for Deathguard and World Eaters. What the codex will probably do is show some cult terminators built using the conversion kits.

candy.man wrote:

Anung Un Rama wrote:The current plastic Terminators are fine. The question is, will GW offer special parts to make cult Termies?

Probably not as there are already Forgeworld conversion kits for Deathguard and World Eaters. What the codex will probably do is show some cult terminators built using the conversion kits.

That would be the first time though.

They showed a FW conversion kit in the GK book which is why I think they will do it here.

That being said, there’s always the possibility that if the CSM terminator kit gets re-boxed than they might add additional bits. It wouldn’t be the first time GW have done this as the 4E CSM tactical squad kit is identical to the 3E kit save for the icons, alternate champ heads, flamer and melta gun).

I wont comment on the potential rules and changes there to, as I dont play 40k...but the rumors about the minis are very exciting. My wife loves the Khorne themed marines and Im a bit of a fan of CSM in general.

Anung Un Rama wrote:The current plastic Terminators are fine. The question is, will GW offer special parts to make cult Termies?

I disagree.

The kit is a piece of dog gak. Not in the sculpts, but in the options they actually give you. The sculpts are fantastic.

They give you... Two Power fists, a chainfist, three TLbolters, one combi flamer, on combi melta, A reaper, a heavy flamer and I think two or three power weapons. What the hell kind of unit can you build with that? I was lucky enough to have had a lot of bits left over from my Chaos Lord to make the unit sort of okay. The kit forces you to either pick options you don't want, or to pay out the nose for the bits you actually want.

If a box doesn't even give you the option to take a bare bones unit (Which would be five TLBs and five power weapons), it isn't a good kit. The GKTs got everything in the codex in their box. Why can't we get the same. It might be as easy as an upgrade sprue, I think (Three more power fists, two or three more power weapons, more combi meltas (who the hell takes combi flamers in 5th?), a couple sets of lightning claws, a couple more chainfists, and some banners)

/rant

I hate that kit. I spent fifty bucks, waited a week, opened the box and couldn't believe how crappy it was.

@Samus_aran115
I agree with what your saying and IMO that is largely an issue with older kits from 3E/4E as most of them don’t contain all the bits you need (particularly CSM kits). The current Khorne berserker kit for example doesn’t even contain any aspiring champion bits and the plasma pistol bits are “fists”, not whole arms (meaning you have to slice the fists off an existing arm to use them).

The newer 5E kits tend to be very good and often contain most of the bits you need represent all the codex options (the vulnerable dread kit I “chaosified” last year was particularly good at this).

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Anung Un Rama wrote:The current plastic Terminators are fine. The question is, will GW offer special parts to make cult Termies?

I disagree.

The kit is a piece of dog gak. Not in the sculpts, but in the options they actually give you. The sculpts are fantastic.

They give you... Two Power fists, a chainfist, three TLbolters, one combi flamer, on combi melta, A reaper, a heavy flamer and I think two or three power weapons. What the hell kind of unit can you build with that? I was lucky enough to have had a lot of bits left over from my Chaos Lord to make the unit sort of okay. The kit forces you to either pick options you don't want, or to pay out the nose for the bits you actually want.

If a box doesn't even give you the option to take a bare bones unit (Which would be five TLBs and five power weapons), it isn't a good kit. The GKTs got everything in the codex in their box. Why can't we get the same. It might be as easy as an upgrade sprue, I think (Three more power fists, two or three more power weapons, more combi meltas (who the hell takes combi flamers in 5th?), a couple sets of lightning claws, a couple more chainfists, and some banners)

/rant

I hate that kit. I spent fifty bucks, waited a week, opened the box and couldn't believe how crappy it was.

I agree with everything except the bolded part - I spent forever converting them, only to discover, as I was beginning to paint them, that the sculpts suck as well. The way they are cast just doesn't lend itself well to the trims and details of the terminator. I ended up putting them aside, and buying 5 terminator lords to convert my unit from - that sculpt is REALLY good. That also made me able to do the whole unit with lightning claws. (pics in the link in my sig.)

Woot! i can't wait for new chaos!

Though, new black templars i would like better.

Well, certainly they could be better, but I think they're adequate enough for not having any particular legion markings on them. When you put the FW accessories on them, the difference is quite clear.... I think you've managed to convince me that they're crappy

The tusks are antiquated. They could be much better. Leg trim is OTT and really just adds clutter to the model (Which is what the goal of CSM is, to an extent). If there's going to be ornate leg trim, it should look better than it does right now. Spikes. Ugh. The Trophy racks are pathetic. They're delicate, obtrusive, and don't have any particularly good detail on them...

If I'm spending fifty dollars on FIVE freaking models, they better be fantastic.

Having said that, they probably won't change the kit for another ten years or something. They have no actual reason to. If you want decent looking terminator, your only options are converting, FW kits and buying multiple lord boxes...


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Holy mother. This model evoked some serious terror in the deepest reaches of my soul. Great work man. I haven't even gotten to the terminators yet, but I love the lord. His racks and weapons are definitely superior to the terminator kit...

The unfortunate problem with the Chaos minis is that they haven't received serious attention since 2nd edition. So many of chaos' sculpts have been done by new sculptors where the miniatures were their first go at a production piece. So between disappointing sculpts and codex, chaos has been pretty short changed.

Samus_aran115 wrote:
They give you... Two Power fists, a chainfist, three TLbolters, one combi flamer, on combi melta, A reaper, a heavy flamer and I think two or three power weapons. What the hell kind of unit can you build with that? I was lucky enough to have had a lot of bits left over from my Chaos Lord to make the unit sort of okay. The kit forces you to either pick options you don't want, or to pay out the nose for the bits you actually want.

If a box doesn't even give you the option to take a bare bones unit (Which would be five TLBs and five power weapons), it isn't a good kit. The GKTs got everything in the codex in their box. Why can't we get the same. It might be as easy as an upgrade sprue, I think (Three more power fists, two or three more power weapons, more combi meltas (who the hell takes combi flamers in 5th?), a couple sets of lightning claws, a couple more chainfists, and some banners)

I think what you fail to grasp is that you did exactly what GW intends you to do... use left over bits from other kits. They say that often enough so you shouldn't be surprised. Beyond that I do agree the composition of the kit could have been a lot better.

aka_mythos wrote:The unfortunate problem with the Chaos minis is that they haven't received serious attention since 2nd edition. So many of chaos' sculpts have been done by new sculptors where the miniatures were their first go at a production piece. So between disappointing sculpts and codex, chaos has been pretty short changed.

General Chaos Marines, Raptors (twice), Obliterators (twice), Defiler, rhino and land raider update accessory sprues, Huron Blackheart, Lucius, Typhus, Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor, Chaos Terminators, greater and lesser daemons (albeit now generic but still remodeled twice nontheless), thousand sons, noise marines, daemon prince (three times!!), possessed marines (twice), chaos spawn, doomrider, chaos lord in power armor (three new model variants), and havocs have all been redone AFTER 2nd edition (mostly in 3rd but a fair amount in 4th and one or two in 5th). While there are a few 2nd edition models (mostly HQ characters and some cult troops), the problem is no where near as bad as you claim. Can they use some updating? Sure (Abaddon and Kharne... I'm looking at you!).. does the majority of the line need it? No.

warboss wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:The unfortunate problem with the Chaos minis is that they haven't received serious attention since 2nd edition. So many of chaos' sculpts have been done by new sculptors where the miniatures were their first go at a production piece. So between disappointing sculpts and codex, chaos has been pretty short changed.

General Chaos Marines, Raptors (twice), Obliterators (twice), Defiler, rhino and land raider update accessory sprues, Huron Blackheart, Lucius, Typhus, Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor, Chaos Terminators, greater and lesser daemons (albeit now generic but still remodeled twice nontheless), thousand sons, noise marines, daemon prince (three times!!), possessed marines (twice), chaos spawn, doomrider, chaos lord in power armor (three new model variants), and havocs have all been redone AFTER 2nd edition (mostly in 3rd but a fair amount in 4th and one or two in 5th). While there are a few 2nd edition models (mostly HQ characters and some cult troops), the problem is no where near as bad as you claim. Can they use some updating? Sure (Abaddon and Kharne... I'm looking at you!).. does the majority of the line need it? No.

It could use it though. Too much of it is merely minor differences from the loyalist armor, primarily arrows, stars, and spikes, as opposed to genuinely feeling Chaotic, especially the basic CSM's, and many of the more recent kits (Daemon Prince, Possessed) feel rather...cartoony, very much much like something you'd see in World of Warcraft, right down to the irregular modelling curves in the Daemon Prince wings.

Bring back the 80's metal/H.R. Giger feel to the line that many of the Chaos units had in RT/2E that has fallen by the wayside for the most part (though the current Raptors are excellent I feel aside from obvious breaking/center-of-gravity concerns). It'd help differentiate the army more and make it feel less like simply another flavor of Space Marines and more like an actual army of Chaos.

@Warboss
Now list the amount of loyalist models that have been updated since 2E

Seriously though, most of the current CSM models listed above originated from third edition either as new kits or updates to existing ones. The CSM kit that appeared in 4E is in fact the same one from 3E but with an additional sprue. The two generic Chaos Lord in power armour miniatures that appeared during third edition were the same model, with the second one having an alternate weapon and head sculpted on (the same model was also sculpted as a fantasy Chaos Lord). The Night Lords Hero and Iron Warriors Warsmith appear to have also been sculpted from the same model.

The only 100% new models that came in 4E as far as I am aware was the plastic terminator lord, plastic terminators, plastic possessed, Huron Blackheart, World Eaters Aspiring Champion and Khorne Lord (I listed possessed as a new kit as the previous incarnation of possessed was a mutation frame included with the generic CSM kit, not necessarily a true possessed kit).

Hopefully if CSM get any new kits for 6th, it’s a new kit and not a recycled one. As Vaktathi has sort of said, the current CSM range needs to be “refreshed” IMO given the large legacy presence and lack of change amongst the range since 2E/3E.

Agreed, the core power armor sets for chaos are really dated and uninspired fluffwise.

What, other than Doobie, Fabius, Kharn and Ahriman, are left in the Chaos range from 2nd Ed?

H.B.M.C. wrote:What, other than Doobie, Fabius, Kharn and Ahriman, are left in the Chaos range from 2nd Ed?

The Chaos Dreadnought and Chaos Sorcerers.

The Berserkers, Doomrider, Cypher, the bikes and one of the Chaos Lord in PA variants are early 3rd edition.

Ah yes of course, the Sorcs and the Dread. Do they even still sell Doomrider?

They do indeed still sell Doomrider.

Is it bad I'm expecting that turd to pop up in Finecast with the release? Not a new sculpt, just Finecast.

Is Kharn really that old? I think he is one of the better looking CSM HQ choices.

I really hope they don't do the three-legion-book plan. Because I guarantee within the first month, people will find whichever is most powerful, and suddenly everyone has that army, to the neglect of the others. It's bad enough that people just repaint loyalists every time a new book comes out, I don't want to see it with my precious chaos.

Are there any Chaos kits that aren't HQ or Raptors with Lightning Claws, by the way? They really need to put them into new kits if they make them.

Bonde wrote:Is Kharn really that old? I think he is one of the better looking CSM HQ choices.

IIRC he's a 1995 or 1996 release.