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Up until the infamous GIANT! issue (305 maybe or so) the US version had content from the US WD team which was very hobby content rich. I think around that time the US portion was closed down and everyone began to get the same content from the UK. I canceled soon after. There is always some confusion on white dwarf threads because the US and UK version were quite a bit different around and after the Paul Sawyer era.

The US version was excellent through the Paul Sawyer era up until Owen Rees took over. The decline in quality was immediately and obviously apparent (but not so for the UK, who had been getting lame content for several years prior to this I guess). This is when they closed down the discussion boards because people were pissed off about it.
I always get confused when people say the content hasn't changed much, but it seems like most of these people are talking about the UK version. For the US version it was like night and day when the US WD team was sacked.

Fifty wrote:WD used to have D&D, Call of Cthulhu and other articles, scenarios and adverts in it. A long time ago, I admit (circa WD50). By WD80ish, it was purely GW.

There was still a greater diversity of games over the years represented within the magazine making it a very varied read because they made so many more different products. Even when they stopped covering other people's games it wasn't as if they were short of their own. They used to do a huge range games like Chainsaw Warrior, Judge Dredd and Rogue Trooper, and these were supported on occasion by WD. The Judge Dredd RPG had a few items, there was a slew of material for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, and in later years Man o' War, Spacefleet, Epic, Dark Future, Bloodbowl, Talisman and Space Hulk all got a slice of WD coverage meaning there was a lot more variety and lots of things getting a bit of support.

Now it's just 40K, fantasy and LOTR, releases of things like Talisman have been farmed off elsewhere and Space Hulk that they actually did themselves was given some page space for advertising its release and little since from what I can see.


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asmith wrote:I always get confused when people say the content hasn't changed much, but it seems like most of these people are talking about the UK version.

It has to be said that WD has been poor for a surprisingly long time now and that only people in the hobby 10 years or more will be aware quite to the degree which it has declined, if you've only been buying it in the UK 2-3 years then you've missed its peak by a long way, it's not changed because it's been at rock bottom for a good while. I don't think I've even bought a WD in 3 years, just flick through in the shop and look at the pictures and desperately hope for a sign of improvement.

Saldiven wrote:
It's not a hobby magazine like Dragon Magazine used to be. Dragon used to have articles about multiple different gaming systems from multiple different game manufacturers back in the day. White Dwarf has never contained content for anything besides GW products.

Funny thing is, to find a non-D&D focused issue of Dragon, you'd have to pretty much go back to the time of the non-GW focused White Dwarf.

Ed_Bodger wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:You're welcome

Hey, I still buy it every month, it's the only drug I use. Most of the issues in the last years have been rather useless for me. I think I've only enjoyed the painting articles.

Sorry dude I meant H.B.M.C his comment really wasn't helpful

The Original poster didn't ask for "help", he asked for people's opinions, which is exactly what H.B.M.C. posted.

Not to mention that that the truth hurts sometimes...

People should speak with their wallets and stop buying WD or stop complaning when they get more of the same

WD's usefulness as anything other then a glorified catalog is questionable in the extreme...

@ howard treesongAgreed, but even at the time of the transition there was a lot of debate on the topic, I think boiling down mostly to if you had been reading the UK or US version at the time. This all happened about 5 years ago now

I remember a time when I really looked forward to a new WD hitting the news stands. Inside its hallowed covers were game reviews,book reviews,figure reviews, articles covering other manufacturer's gaming systems. In other words it was enjoyable to read;that ended round about issue 100 or so when it went totally inhouse. I didn't like what I saw and stopped buying it for a while(4 years) and only picked it up again around issue 200. It lost its fun hobby element long ago and this has been replaced by the hard sell; the 'you really need this expensive new unit or you will lose' approach they have been using. I don't even look at the adverts at all, I find them totally irrelevant and just designed to get us to shell out more. I think WD would be wise to consider running adverts/articles covering non GW products again,at the least they would get their credibility back in the eyes of critics, they'd also make more money which they seem to like to do.

Howard A Treesong wrote:There was still a greater diversity of games over the years represented within the magazine making it a very varied read because they made so many more different products. Even when they stopped covering other people's games it wasn't as if they were short of their own. They used to do a huge range games like Chainsaw Warrior, Judge Dredd and Rogue Trooper, and these were supported on occasion by WD. The Judge Dredd RPG had a few items, there was a slew of material for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, and in later years Man o' War, Spacefleet, Epic, Dark Future, Bloodbowl, Talisman and Space Hulk all got a slice of WD coverage meaning there was a lot more variety and lots of things getting a bit of support.

Now it's just 40K, fantasy and LOTR, releases of things like Talisman have been farmed off elsewhere and Space Hulk that they actually did themselves was given some page space for advertising its release and little since from what I can see.

Agreed. Things like Blood Bowl, Dark Future (great game), Space Hulk, Warhammer Quest, WFRP, etc... all got great support. Even the fluff was better in those days.

I quit WD at issue 300 which is about six years ago now. I've never looked back.

I offloaded about 150 of them couple of months ago for £15 worth of Warmachine minis.

Fair enough, HBMC.

I still mostly get White Dwarf for the glossy photos. I don't think I read many of the articles
you mention being so fond of. Remember, I learned much of the hobby from the Internet
and Dakka Dakka.

WD for the last 4-5 years has basically been a large ad mag. There is nothing profound, nothing you can't find online.

Gone are the profound articles, the 'deviation from the norm'

GW are now trying to make a cookie cutter hobby : buy the boxes assemble your dudes play games. Gone are the 'lets convert and make mental stuff from deodorant bottles'

LordWaffles wrote:

Ed_Bodger wrote:I have only been playing guard for about six months but I have won three tournaments with them and have never lost a game
Thoughts?

I think you play mech guard. And I am not impressed it's a point click army where the only real thought process is target selection and how many flying trilas jets to place. I really don't like them at all.

Actually I don't play mech guard at all I play a balance between tanks big infantry platoons and CCS in chimeras with a mobile Vet squad in a Vandetta. Thanks for making an assumption based on nothing. Idiot

Saldiven wrote:I'll reiterate what others have already said. White Dwarf is nothing, and has never been anything, but a printed commercial for GW products that you have to pay for.

It's not a hobby magazine like Dragon Magazine used to be. Dragon used to have articles about multiple different gaming systems from multiple different game manufacturers back in the day. White Dwarf has never contained content for anything besides GW products.

...

...

As a point of fact you're wrong. Back in the good old days it genuinely covered a wide variety of games and had useful articles for them. This started to decline by the time they hit issue 100, back in the early to mid 1980s.

Gradually the amount of GW games content increased at the expense of other systems.

Once GW stopped publishing any licensed titles it was entirely filled with their own products. At least that still included the Specialist games and Warhammer Fantasy Role-play.

Then their own range of products was gradually reduced until now it is 40K, WHFB and occasional bits of LoTR.

I assume you are young enough not to have personal experience of such ancient history.

I got a few free ones this summer (boy scouts FTW!), and the only parts I really liked out of them were the various editorials (i.e. standard bearer, blanchitsu, ect.)

filbert wrote:I understand where you are coming from but given that you appear to be a fairly long time WD reader, I am surprised that this has got to the point of annoyance. It has always been thus with WD. I can probably count on the fingers of one hand the amount of times that the new release army has lost a battle report (and most of the time when they fail to win, the game ends in a draw rather than a loss). This is standard fare for WD; as integral to the magazine as the advertising. The battle report is nothing more than an advert in itself.

Take the mag for what it is - a way to sell more minis. Glean from it what you will (some articles are good despite what this board would have you believe) and take it with a pinch of salt. Personally, I buy WD but then again, I am under no illusions as to what I receive. Its expensive, but then again, so is everything GW, and it provides me with enough diversion and amusement to justify the cost. When it stops doing that, I will stop buying it.

Got as far as the price bit... (the following is not aimed you filbert, or indeed anyone in particular)

All magazines are pricey these days. I buy White Dwarf, Viz, Fortean Times, and occasionally Bizarre. Might even squeak the odd copy of Empire. Not a single one is what I would call cheap. And out the lot of them, WD is the only one not to be subsidised by external advertising. Not much in Fortean though!

Actually go and look at other magazines on the shelf. Take 'Mens Magazines'. So. Many. Adverts. And yet still bloody expensive. Not to mention full of incredibly poor articles about a lifestyle nothing short of a Premiership Footballer who threatened to quit his club, then suddenly signed a new megabucks deal can actually lead....

If you think WD is a poor magazine, might I suggest reading more, and opinionating less?

Also worth noting that in my case, I'll read and re-read my WD several times in a month, and make continued use of the painting articles. The other magazines I buy, not so much. Apart from Viz. That's ace for when you're in the cludgy.

It's £4.50 per issue.

I don't take mens' mags but hobby mags are cheaper in my experience. Adverts are hobby related and not particularly prevelant.

Also I find that a good quilted, absorbant bog roll far superior to Viz and WD for the little boys' room.

White Dwarf has changed over the last 8 or so years. Not necessarily for the worse, although I would argue that, but mostly I think to respond to the sheer redundancy of a printed magazine in an online world.

What exactly could White Dwarf publish that isnt' readily available for free online? They can do a ten page masterclass, while Les can do an hour long video. They can do a tactics article, while I can read an article on BOLS, Dakka, or other blogs to get a rounder view. They can highlight awesome looking armies, while Dakka alone has a huge catalog of great looking forces.

Stepping away from all rules for 40k eliminated the one area that WD couldn't be match at. There was hope with Apoc and Planetstrike that WD would start to include all kinds of neat new scenarios and campaigns and the stuff I like to call "soft" rules.

And it's just 40k that gets the shaft. WFB gets at least new scenarios and stuff, while LotR gets new rules all the time.

malfred wrote:I sometimes wonder if WD has changed, or if it's the game and the hobbyists
who have changed.

My first exposure to WD was when I bought a stack of them (about 10) from Ebay, and they were all at least a decade old or so (issue #200-250ish). By even the most impartial measure, the magazine was a very, very different proposition.

#232: Battlefleet Gothic on the front cover. 8 pages of background fluff on some specific ships written by Gav Thorpe. 4 pages on some new chaos models, like the chaos rhino. 8 pages on how to build an efficient Lizardmen army, with interspersed half-page paint tutorials. Then another 5 or 6 pages talking about how to field specific units. Then 2 pages of a short story of the adventures of a lizardman skink. 6 pages showing you how to build terrain, such as one with hills and trees with wrapped wire for tree, and hills made of insulation foam (which he at one point nearly melted with a spraycan, forgetting it was polystyrene). He also shows you how to make steps out of cardboard for a temple entrance/pyramid. A studio contest for painting one o the new CSM lord marine - the same lord in 8 different schemes with explanations of how to paint each. Chapter Approved 40k: new wargear. Added Blind & Smoke grenades to scouts, assault squads, eldar guardians, IST, and Ork Kommandos with how to play and points cost. Then 4 pages of FAQ's and rule clarifications on various codexes. Then, game scenarios - one for an assassination, one based on Sister of Battle. Now moving on to this months new chaos models, followed by about 4 pages on various conversions. Page 85-100 are a scenario and battle report for Battlefleet Gothic. which was apparently a recent release back then. Total length was 116 pages.

Contrast: The last issue I have in hand of WD.

Issue 369: WHFB High elves are on the cover. Next is 8 pages of new models to buy, covering 1 faction for WHFB and some LOTR stuff (and a quarter page blurb about Death Angel from FFG. 15-23 are background fluff on High Elves, only the models that were released this month. 24-25 are a high elf army list using mostly the new high elf models released this month. 26-27 - are pics of the new high elves with SKU's. 28-55 are spent replaying the exact same game from the last issue, using last month's Island of Blood new release and the same board and models. 58-63 is LOTR flyover territory. then 4 pages of various horses you can field in WHFB, prominently featuring the new High Elf flying mount hero. 2 pages of Jervis talking vaguely about new WHFB rules, where less then 3/4 of a single page is actually text and precisely zero percent is insightful, new, or useful to anyone. 8 pages of masterclass - painting the new high elves. 2 page Island of Blood ad. 6 ages of army showcases (all WHFB) which are mostly just pictures like a ctaalog. 2 pages of Dan Abnett plugging his new Black Library book. 8 pages of Word Bearers model images, with a 2x 3 panel how-to paint a single model - the tzeenth horrors and posessed CSM. 4 pages of how to convert the newly released 40k terrain releases, of which the "conversions" solely involved gluing or adding things from the Bitz packs. Then 2 page picture of that terrain surrounded by SM models. 15 pages of event and store finders. Then inexplicably, another page reminding you that some new High Elf models are available to order now (!) complete with SKU numbers.

To the OP: It seems the think that finally made you stop supporting WD was that battle report you described. Clearly you're familiar enough with the list of the losing side (aka 'not the army being released right now) to see all the glaring holes.

I'm surprised you haven't seen this before. You say you're playing IG for only 6 months but I believe you've got more GW armies right? If so you should have realised that this has been the norm for a looooong time.

For a personal example: any WD WHFB battle report featuring Empire as the losing team during 6th and 7th Ed. None of these lists had detachments but did go big on troops. It does not take a genius to realise that failing to take advantage of an army specific special rule that enhances ones infantry is not a smart thing in an infantry list!

The last time I bought WD (UK) with some regularity was during the middle Sawyer years, from then on he was clearly forced by management to change the style of the mag and it showed and ultimately he stepped down, probably because he wasn't getting any enjoyment any more from the product he created. Since then it's been maybe a few mags when Empire was released for a new edition, they published the GIANT rules etc. Haven't bought one in years and sometimes my wife will spot on in a newspaper store and say: "Hey, whey don't you buy that one, you liked that magazine didn't you?", yeah 'liked' is the correct word here.

Well said Ed_bodger you can only put up with some thing for so long before you snap I think its best to use White Dwarf as light reading.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Saldiven wrote:White Dwarf has never contained content for anything besides GW products.

I think it did but you'll have to go a looong time back to find it.

Even then, they were technically "GW" products, at least in the UK, anyway - as far as licenced products go.

Games Workshop had the licence to publish D&D, Paranoia, CoC, etc in the UK (as TSR, Chaosium and other US games companies didn't have the clout yet to adequately cover that market with their product).

Polonius wrote:White Dwarf has changed over the last 8 or so years. Not necessarily for the worse, although I would argue that, but mostly I think to respond to the sheer redundancy of a printed magazine in an online world.

What exactly could White Dwarf publish that isnt' readily available for free online? They can do a ten page masterclass, while Les can do an hour long video. They can do a tactics article, while I can read an article on BOLS, Dakka, or other blogs to get a rounder view. They can highlight awesome looking armies, while Dakka alone has a huge catalog of great looking forces.

Stepping away from all rules for 40k eliminated the one area that WD couldn't be match at. There was hope with Apoc and Planetstrike that WD would start to include all kinds of neat new scenarios and campaigns and the stuff I like to call "soft" rules.

And it's just 40k that gets the shaft. WFB gets at least new scenarios and stuff, while LotR gets new rules all the time.

^^ This = exactly right.

This is their core problem. There is nothing for WD to cover except new GW models, "soft" rules (which they don't do any more) and things which are already available for free on the internet.

Kilkrazy wrote:This is their core problem. There is nothing for WD to cover except new GW models, "soft" rules (which they don't do any more) and things which are already available for free on the internet.

And? So? But? Therefore?

Ed_Bodger wrote:Thanks for that truly helpful comment that furthers debate and makes my time typing worthwhile.

Personally I enjoy Wargames Illustrated right now. No science fiction or fantasy (usually) but I find it much more enjoyable and inspiring. And best of all the terrain isn't all full of skulls.

And so, that's why WD isn't worth buying, but there is plenty of better stuff available for Vets, therefore we read that instead.

Mr. Burning wrote:Remember GW's rule about having fun.

Battle reports in WD have always featured builds that are not competitive. Even when they get shop staff or tourney winners involved etc they always change their lists to make them a bit of everything.

'My list usually features lots of win x but seeing as I am in WD this month Ill use lots of crappy y and zees'

Is the formulaic comment.

This is one of the reasons I stopped getting white dwarf. It is a shame because a lot of people don't really care about the outcome of the battle report they just want to see a cool game with very nice pictures. I don't mind them changing their army lists to have some of everything but when they play a few games and pick the one where the featured army wins I find it annoying. I remember the first time I read a battle report that admitted that this is what they did really annoyed me.

The strange thing is that Black Gobbo was being released online regularly for free (eh?) but was full of stuff that WD could have made use of. While the magazine was a waste of time there were people writing and doing interesting things proving that creativity does exist and such things could be published. Yet it was simply decided to close it down and wipe the archive instead of adopting any of the approach into WD.

Black Gobbo was a beautiful piece of work. I have no idea how they financed that thing, but it was beautiful.

malfred wrote:Black Gobbo was a beautiful piece of work. I have no idea how they financed that thing, but it was beautiful.

I think it started to lean towards advertising in later times rather than doing hobby stuff, but undoubtedly they scrapped it because it was costing money and being offered for free. I think they missed a trick there. The scrapping of the archive was a pretty poor show from GW though, it was a goldmine for ideas and inspiration.

I don't see the problem, sure the standard of WD has dropped quite substantially since way back when, but I actually thought this issue wasn't that bad for once. The interview with Jes was pretty interesting. There was mention of them bringing out a model for the venom, new hemonculi stuff (maybe Wrack's?) and something else wytch cult based. The battle report was ok, it showed a nice selection of the new DE model's (shame he IG list was a bit dumb though). I'm sure the painting guide will be quite handy too.

Yeah sure WD isn't what it used to be, but I don't see why this issue prompted a rant, by the low standards I now set for the magazine, I was impressed.

The rant came from the battle report it was so unbalanced from selection of armies to the end of the game that it was the equivalent of the England Rugby Team playing a full on game against Lowerstoft Secondary U13 girls. Furthermore it is depressing that every month WD is a waste of time unless you are interested in the release of the month. It wasn't that long ago that one could pick up WD even when a new army was release ad find that at least 30% of the articles had nothing to do with the release and this did not include the tedious pages of club directorys and GW stores - These should not be in the magazine this is what the website should have been designed for. The may as well call it: Citadel Minatures new release catalogue.