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malfred wrote:I sometimes wonder if WD has changed, or if it's the game and the hobbyists
who have changed.

I wondered this, did some research and found that WD IS NOW .

I used to have subscriptions for years, until 3 years ago due to being a student and wanting to watch my out goings. I took a years worth of WD, from 293 to 304 and compared it to the most recent year of WD issues (luckily for me, but unluckily for him, my friend still has a subscription).

What did i find you ask?

from 293 to 304, colletions of interesting converted units (such as the ordo hereticus retinue units), army guides, 'eavy metal, staff/reader's armies and models, index articles, gaming technique articles, more fluff, battle reports (but still usually one sided), chapter approved. All round interesting, even the areas of the hobby i don't care much for (warhammer fantasy) are still interesting and worth a read and causes that spark of curiosity you remember having the first time you saw a Games Workshop store display window.

the latest issues, 'eavy metal (but usually only of the latest release), adverts for new minis, in depth report on new minis, battle report of new minis (very one sided), standard bearer (an article page that basically says 'veterans quiet down, we don't care')and page after page of adverts.


This is the main problem with WD now, it has now become a monthly advert book, THAT READERS PAY FOR. I use capitals because think about it 99.9999999999% of companies pay for advertising (whether on tv, radio, billboards, leaflets, fliers, internet marketing) they do not cost the consumer anything (its build into the profit margins of the company), even Coca-Cola, the worlds biggest fizzy pop producer still spends bucket loads of money on adverts without having a terribly overpriced. GW on the other hand have managed to get advertising for thier products that is not only free to them, but actually get customers to pay for it.


What can be taken from this is go to your local GW each month, read the 2-4 pages that actually interest you and then put it back, if a red shirt talks to you about buying it, tell they politely (they are only doing their job) 'no, i don't pay to look at over 100 pages of advertising'





@Ouze:

GW 232 is one of my all time favourite issues

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Buying a WD and complaining about the content is like walking into a tattoo parlour, asking for a tattoo and then complaining afterwards that you got a tattoo. You know what WD is, it's been this way for years and years and years, so you got exactly what you paid for - a thick flashy advertising booklet masquerading as a hobby magazine.

I concur with this 100%. White Dwarf was a must read in the 80's, a might read in the early 90's, a can read in the late 90's and a do not read since.

I have WD 133 - 182... I suspect I have not missed much since then.

I used to love WD, interesting battles handy painting guides and even the games I didn't play I found the articles interesting enough to read. In once case the article actually made me go out and lay down £30 on the game (Man-O-War). That is what I want from a magazine, something that makes me want to pick it up and read... oh, and if they still printed the Random vouchers for money off during grand openings and random events that might make me pick up the odd copy as well

I actually did read the new one over the weekend. It's by no means the worst issue in recent years. The Dark Eldar background made for good reading. I'd agree however that the battle report was uninspiring, but maybe I've grown out of them anyway.

Yes batrep was pointless.
The AMAZING thing about the 'new' DE is the lack of minis... in the oldest Dex it was the same - only warriors, warpbeasts, wyches raiders and dodgy looking scourges kitbashed from old metal gargoyle wings...
'New' Release and theres a severe lack of minis!

Anyway the JJ article was actually inspiring.

Phototoxin wrote:The AMAZING thing about the 'new' DE is the lack of minis... in the oldest Dex it was the same - only warriors, warpbeasts, wyches raiders and dodgy looking scourges kitbashed from old metal gargoyle wings...
'New' Release and theres a severe lack of minis!

Hmm... seems to be fairly well supported if you ask me. Kabal Warriors, Wyches, Reavers, Hellions, Raider, Ravager and Mandrakes, not mention two special characters and an Archon. Bear in mind that releasing a new range of miniatures is fairly resource heavy, but even then, they've outdone themselves. If the Skaven had got the equivalent the first time round, I'd have been a happy warpstone muncher. Have a little patience. The Haemonculi stuff will come.

Phototoxin wrote:Anyway the JJ article was actually inspiring.

*splutter*

Must. Investigate.

While I remember some of the articles mentioned earlier (making trees/a terrain piece of a whirlwind in quicksand, using wire, paper mache, and GW bits, and other such cool projects) were on GW's old website (red background, mostly), and I really enjoyed them while they were still available. As previously mentioned, the only exposure to WD that I have is a few issues 8-12 months old now. The impression I got is similar to that of, say, "People" magazine. No, you are not buying to read the celebrity interviews because you know that it'll be a bunch of bull that has been extended by some ghostwriter whose name is in 5 point script at the bottom of some other page. You're buying it for the cool pictures and newest information about said celebrity ( or in this case army), what they're up to, what is new.

Just want to say that out of my limited exposure to WD, I liked a few of the editorials, like one about losing gracefully, or how they choose a new army to create. Another article on how to be a better defender in planetstrike had some nice rule supplements too. So are these isolated incidents?

I’ve been gaming with GW games since ’91, and a lot has changed in that time, but a lot of things have stayed the same, and that includes people saying White Dwarf used to be so much better than it is now. Barring the very earliest days when it covered games outside of the GW stable, and arguably the old Chapter Approved days when you got units needed to make your armies competitive in the book, it never really had much content. I mean, how many times can include amazing new painting and modelling techniques in a monthly magazine?

It’s a good read when you’re new to they hobby, but nothing more than that. I don’t think it could ever be anything more than that.

BluntmanDC wrote:This is the main problem with WD now, it has now become a monthly advert book, THAT READERS PAY FOR. I use capitals because think about it 99.9999999999% of companies pay for advertising (whether on tv, radio, billboards, leaflets, fliers, internet marketing) they do not cost the consumer anything (its build into the profit margins of the company)

Fashion magazines? Really, any industry with an aesthetically pleasing end product will likely produce a magazine full of the best examples and charge their readers for it.

And I don’t know why you’d compare a mass market soft drink manufacturer to GW, they’re really just not in the same industry. Might as well compare them for NASA for all the sense it would make. GW’s industry counterparts would be more like WotC.

Why buy it if your not interested in the releases then? Sorry if I'm sounding a little bit critical, but whats the point in buying something you don't want to read?

I agree that the last section where they constantly list all the stockists is a waste of ink and paper. There was a deacent sized LotR article; but I dont know if its any good having never taken the game seriously.

To be quite honest there is nothing in the magazine that they couldn't put into an article for the site (they put painting walkthroughs on the site already). But if people buy the magazine then why should they stop making it?

I can't see why anybody would subscribe to it (unless you have a great interest in every game system and race within each ). If you're interested in Dark Eldar then the new issue probably justifies the £4.50 to buy it, but if your not of course your wasting your money.

And that is exactly the realisation I came to it has just been a case of wanting WD to get better for ages so I continued to buy it. Now however I am voting with my wallet and will not be buying it again.

I don't blame you
In the last few years I've only ever bought 2 issues; this Dark Edar one (I've been waiting years for some nice looking models because I've always loved the fluff) and the Spearhead addition purely for the Nightspinner rules.

I've got to the point that I know there will be nothing good in there 95% of the time, so only bother when I know its specifically about somthing I'm interested in.

I was just a little shocked that your rage started because of an issue that was (by the usual standards) pretty informative

As someone with no interest in Dark Eldar other than to appreciate the models it was the battle report that was the straw that broke the camels back.

Yeah I completely agree with the "fix" that was the battle report. That imperial guard army could not have been more custom built to allow the DE to wail on them.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Haha! You bought a White Dwarf.

You deserve everything you get, really.

This guy is awesome.

Like some sort of.. battered wife who loves her husband too much to leave him, HBMC displays the classic example of nerd rage. Venting via a forum devoted to GW. It would be funny if he was under 16, but as he is (apparently) a grown man i find it really rather sad and depressing.

I read WD every month, by going into WH Smiths and sitting with it for twenty minutes, its always enjoyable to flick through considering its all about the hobby, but yeah, not worth buying if you can devour it in 20 minutes surely? (maybe its all the adverts!)

Its always worth a look though, the painting tutorials and the wonderful minis, showcases etc..

And yes.. i skip Jervis column unless it looks particularly interesting, and it almost always never does.

I only pick up white dwarf from one of the local used bookshops since I can get them for 3 dollars a piece. I agree with the old ones being alot better. I will have to check out war games illustrated.

The only White Dwarf I remember where the new army lost was nids for their most recent codex


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Also WD is not bad if you happen to win a 1 year subscription in a raffle at GW

I finally got this months issue. Yep the battle report is as suspicious as always. Literally. Back in 3rd edition, when the second wave of Dark Eldar was released (Hellions, Asdrubael Vect and such minis), they made a 1000p battle report. It was DE vs... Catachan (using IG+Catachan codex).

As suspicious as always

mattyrm wrote:HBMC displays the classic example of nerd rage.

Nerd... rage?

What about my post sounds angry? I know that tone over the interwebs is somewhat harder to determine, given that we cannot actually hear one another's voices, but... rage? I was laughing. I even wrote "ha ha". Was that too subtle for you?




And I love how you randomly appear out of no where just to attack me 4 pages into a thread. Stay classy!

sebster wrote:Fashion magazines? Really, any industry with an aesthetically pleasing end product will likely produce a magazine full of the best examples and charge their readers for it.

Thats for people that want to see new releases or trends, a HOBBY magazine should be about the hobby (everything that goes into it, including the LOTR bits). It shouldn't be a glorified order book with page after page of advertising. The first WD i ever bought/read was 215, it came with card terrain and rules for the very fun mini game 'full tilt' (bretonian jousting), and the issue was full of hobby stuff, not just new releases.

Unless it returns to the good (very) old days i won't be buying another WD

So what would we like to see in White Dwarf then? I know what i'd like to see:

-Battle Reports stemming over a campaign
-Tactics for 2-3 selected units every month (be this from fantasy or 40k, i don't mind)
- Less advertising
- Some short stories (which i havent seen in a while)
- Some FAQ discussion?

Any other ideas?

Since this has gone on for 4 pages. I have satiated my hunger for GW hate for the day... actually, my quota for the weekmay have been filled...

if you take anything from this thread, please understand this:

WD is basiacllay a 'catalogue' released in monthly intervals... to entice you to buy more of their product...

It is a catalogue that you pay to read...

More the fool you.

liam0404 wrote:Yeah I completely agree with the "fix" that was the battle report.

Whenever someone declares their outrage at a battle report being fixed I feel exactly the same as if someone were to declare their outrage at professional wrestling being fixed.


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BluntmanDC wrote:Thats for people that want to see new releases or trends, a HOBBY magazine should be about the hobby

They both show the new releases and trends, basically amounting to a big product catalogue, and they both

Unless it returns to the good (very) old days i won't be buying another WD

It won't, it can't. There is only so much to this hobby, and if you read WD for any length of time you will notice a lot of repetition.

So stop buying it, it's okay and you don't need any internet outrage to justify your decision to stop buying a magazine you aren't very interested in any more. Meanwhile some young kid will buy his first WD tomorrow, think it's amazing, get it every month for 6 months or a year, maybe more, and then find some battle report that was even more rigged than the usual standard. And so at some point down the track he'll post on the internet somewhere how WD isn't as good as it was when he first started buying it, and so the circle will continue.

Yeah white dwarves have gotten really really bad.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Haha! You bought a White Dwarf.

You deserve everything you get, really.

Guys just remember:

I would just like to say that I am quite happy with the four White Dwarf issues that I've purchased over the past two years.

I have a hard time imagining why someone would get a subscription unless they owned a hobby store and needed material to use in tempting new customers, though.

Fafnir wrote:Considering the customer base GW is most interested in, 26 is absolutely ancient.

I guess I'm buggered then...

Hee hee, me too!

Seriously though, I got a sub back in the spring becasue I noticed that I was habitulaly buying it off the news stand and figured that a sub would help me save a little money over doing that. I agree, it isn't the best mag I've ever read from a content perspective, but I do find enough stuff of interest to make it worthwhile to me.

One thing that the bat reps do help me with is just seeing out an army performs on the table. Not really as a realistic reflection of how a tournament battle might go, but just as an educational lesson on what stuff is in the latest codex and how it might stomp/nomnom/fricase my Guardsmen in the next game I play .

1) THE BATTLE REPORT: First off I realise that it would not be a good thing if the new army gets tabled but this month has gone too far. First of all if Andrew Kendrick is meant to be such a good Imperial Guard General then why did he use such a crappy list - 3 infantry platoons with very little upgrades on the command squads, no chimeras and only two infantry squads in each. I have only been playing guard for about six months but I have won three tournaments with them and have never lost a game (this is not trying to sound arrogant just to put in place the fact I know how to win with guard). There was very little synergy in his list and I am pretty sure that no one has ever used that list and won a game so is it any surprise he got smashed. Why can't these supposedly awesome generals ever pick competitive lists? Ok I don't want to see tournament winning lists every month but I would like to se some variety between fluffy lists, competitive list and down right evil lists but this should be balanced by both players picking the same kind of list. Apart from when LOTR is the featured report I have never stopped reading the battle report but this month was just ridiculous. I think I have said enough about the Battle Report now if anyone wants to pick up on it I can moan some more later.


When they do this it's delibrite so the DE Will Win, to advertise