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^^^ You mean IG vs Nids? You wrote IG vs Guard

To be fair, Cadians are also part of Armageddon. In the "regiments involved" bit in the back of Codex: Armageddon it mentions them.

Brother SRM wrote:^^^ You mean IG vs Nids? You wrote IG vs Guard

To be fair, Cadians are also part of Armageddon. In the "regiments involved" bit in the back of Codex: Armageddon it mentions them.

Yeah, but Cadians aren't really iconic of Armageddon.

If you had "Recon the Ash Wastes" with Cadians wearing respirators and Cadian sentinels--people who never actually read the Armageddon book would cry that "they're shoehorning Cadians in everywhere, just like they do with Ultramarines!".

Hence: it'd just be better, overall, to use a Cadian campaign.

Or, hell, you could do the Brimlock Dragoons during the Damocles Gulf Crusade. They use the same general equipment as the Cadians, and actually are descendants of a Cadian regiment that won settlement rights to that world.

Guard v. Tau could definitely be unique.

Lord PoPo wrote:I think that IG vs Guard would give new players the best exposure to 40k that you could have in such a small package. Yes they're both horde armies, but they also represent the two forces that are constantly in conflict with one another in 40k that, I think, makes the game so interesting.

The imperial guard epitomize humanity. Not just because they're human (duh), but because these are people who are a long long way from home, and who have practically consigned themselves to death on the battlefield, and yet still fight on. Some are threatened by shouting commissars, but many fight, and die (in droves... have you ever seen an apocalypse game with guardsmen involved?) even without such provocation.

Then there is the pure, unrelenting malice of the Tyranids. They are THE aliens. There is nothing human about them, only a desire to kill.. Us.. as it turns out. Because we are delicious.

I don't know what these boxes would/shoud include. Obviously the nids couldn't get MCs, as the guard couldn't get tanks.

I really like the campaignesque idea that kanluwen has. But if one box were to come out, I think nids vs Guard would be the best idea.

And as a disclaimer, I play Space Marines. I just think that A) people are right, give the other armies a chance, and B) that space marines don't really represent 40k as well as a guard Vs Tyranid conflict would.

I agree. 'nids vs IG would be a good match up. and a good start for anyone wanting to start an army just to see the eternal struggle of it all.

Orkymike wrote:

Lord PoPo wrote:I think that IG vs Guard would give new players the best exposure to 40k that you could have in such a small package. Yes they're both horde armies, but they also represent the two forces that are constantly in conflict with one another in 40k that, I think, makes the game so interesting.

The imperial guard epitomize humanity. Not just because they're human (duh), but because these are people who are a long long way from home, and who have practically consigned themselves to death on the battlefield, and yet still fight on. Some are threatened by shouting commissars, but many fight, and die (in droves... have you ever seen an apocalypse game with guardsmen involved?) even without such provocation.

Then there is the pure, unrelenting malice of the Tyranids. They are THE aliens. There is nothing human about them, only a desire to kill.. Us.. as it turns out. Because we are delicious.

I don't know what these boxes would/shoud include. Obviously the nids couldn't get MCs, as the guard couldn't get tanks.

I really like the campaignesque idea that kanluwen has. But if one box were to come out, I think nids vs Guard would be the best idea.

And as a disclaimer, I play Space Marines. I just think that A) people are right, give the other armies a chance, and B) that space marines don't really represent 40k as well as a guard Vs Tyranid conflict would.

I agree. 'nids vs IG would be a good match up. and a good start for anyone wanting to start an army just to see the eternal struggle of it all.

I'm not quite sure why everyone and their brother thinks Nids v. IG "would be a good match-up".

Fluffwise, it never ends well for the Guard. They're almost always on the backfoot, and it almost always ends up with them being nommed upon.
Gamewise, you're not getting exposed to anything unique or interesting. You're not even really getting models that are unique or interesting. You're just getting a box crammed full of models, which will inevitably be seized upon by cheapskate gamers as "the perfect start to my army, provided I trade off the parts I'm not going to use!"--which brings about Battle for Macragge/Black Reach all over again.

I would put in Imperial Guard vs... Dark Eldar or Orks.

Just no more Space Marines. No more.

Well, quite obviously SM against SM.

On a serious note if i was given free riegn i would put in a shooty army (IG) and a CC army (Nids) so players could experience the two sides of the coin and make sure i included as many unit types as possible:

IG

1 Commissar
1 Command Squad
30 guardsmen
1 heavy weapon platform
1 Sentinel
A tank of some sorts (Chimera maybe)

Nids

Tyranid Prime (an uber cool box set exclusive model of course)
3 warriors
8 stealers
20 hormagaunts
10 Gargoyles
1 Carnifex

*Note im not sure how the points would balance out here, and all the models would probably make it very expensive

So in here i've crammed Infantry, Artillery, Infiltrators, Tanks, MCs, Jump Infantry and Walkers. This means that after learning the rules given with the models in the box people will have less to learn. Also the armies are of polar opposites so you can play with each and see which suits you best.

Also this lineup represents what 40K is all about, the human race and it's constant fight to survive despite all the alien races out to get them. Here you have the proper humans of the 41st millenium against the most alien of races, perfect.

Of course if i did actually work for GW i would have to put SM in

CSM vs. Dark Eldar

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:CSM vs. Dark Eldar

Evil vs. Evil?

That won't happen...

Probably the following:

tyranids:
10 hormagaunts
10 hormaguants
3 warriors
1 warrior prime
3 raveners

eldar:
10 dire avengers
5 striking scorpians
1 war walker
5 warp spiders
1 farseer

how about necrons vs eldar then?

Xenos v. Xenos will never happen.

There's no real overlap between the players of the various Xenos races, but pretty much everyone has a Guard or Space Marine army of some flavor. So bear that in mind when you wishlist.

NOt to mention the standard 'new players idenitfy better with the human factions'.

Hmm...has anyone considered Grey Knights as one of the possible options? GK vs. Daemons? Use a special rulebook that doesn't introduce ALL the complicated rules at once?

ChrisWWII wrote:Hmm...has anyone considered Grey Knights as one of the possible options? GK vs. Daemons?

Someone mentioned the idea upthread, but I still think Daemons are unsuitable for a starter set. Within that army, you've got four different factions with almost zero overlap. Even the IG could get generic support if they put an IST-heavy =][= force in the box.

I'd go for IG vs Chaos Space Marines, they could do something along the lines of:

Daemon Prince
10 CSM's
5 Plague Marines
3 Bikes/5 Raptors

Vs

CCS
2 Inf Platoons/vet's
Heavy weapon team/sentinal squad

Give it a black crusade theme. You still keep the noob friendly 3+ T4 MEQ's but give a new part of the imperium the limelight for a change.

Starter box sets have gone like so:

2nd Edition - Space Marines vs Orks (Canonically: Blood Angels vs Goffs)
Contained:
20 Snap-Together Orks (Bolt Pistols, Axe)
40 Snap-Together Gretchin (Autoguns)
1 Cardboard Ork Dread

2 Snap-Together Marine Sergeants (Chainswords, Bolt Pistols)
2 Snap-Together Marines w/ Flamers
2 Snap-Together Marines w/ Missile Launchers
14 Snap-Together Marines w/ Bolters

3rd Edition - Space Marines vs Dark Eldar (Canonically Ultramarines vs Cabal of the Black Heart)
Contained:
1 Complete 3rd Edition Space Marine Tactical box-set (i.e 10 marines inc. Sergeant, Flamer, Missile Launcher)
1 Complete 3rd Edition Space Marine Land Speeder Set (i.e. w/ Heavy Bolter, Multimelta)

1 Complete 3rd Edition Dark Eldar Warrior Set (i.e. 16 Warriors w/ 2 Splinter Cannons)

4th Edition - Battle for Macragge - Space Marines vs Tyranids (Canonically Ultramarines vs Hive Fleet Behemoth)
Contained:
10 Snap-Together Marines (inc Sergeant, Flamer, Missile Launcher)
1 Snap-Together Imperial Pilot

8 Snap-Together Termagaunts
8 Snap-Together Genestealers
8 Snap-Together Spore Mines

5th Edition - Assault on Black Reach - Space Marines vs Orks (Canonically Ultramarines vs Goffs)
Contained:
1 Snap-Together Space Marine Captain
10 Snap-Together Tactical Marines (inc Sergeant, Flamer, Missile Launcher)
5 Snap Together Terminators (inc Sergeant)
1 Snap Together Dreadnought

1 Snap Together Ork Warboss
20 Snap Together Ork Boyz (inc 2 Big Shootas)
5 Snap Together Ork Nobz
3 Snap Together Deff Koptas

The rules have always been: Space Marines vs a Xenos race of some sort, with no Xenos race repeated consecutively. Seeing as we're more or less assured Vanilla Marines will be included (and probably Ultramarines at that), all that lies in question is the xenos race.

Orks we can rule out having been included in the 5th ed set.
Chaos Space Marines and Necrons can probably be ruled out as being too similar to the Marines
Tau and Eldar can probably be ruled out as being too 'good' and not obviously evil.
Dark Eldar can probably be ruled out as not being amenable to snap-together (too spindly) - the 3rd ed box models were just standard models, and by all accounts was too much of a difficulty step for new players to get into.
Daemons can probably be rules out as having rules too radical compared to most armies.

Which leaves... Tyranids. Boring? Well yes, but as a means of selling box sets to new players, it probably works out well. They're a popular race, obvious as being evil, different enough from marines to provide contrast and as shown by the 4th ed set, work well in snap together. So I present what I would guess is most likely to be in the 6th edition set, assuming GW's ability to produce models on sprues remains similar to the current Black Reach set:

6th Edition - Defence of Tarsis Ultra - Space Marines vs Tyranids (Canonically Ultramarines vs Hive Fleet Leviathan)
Contains:

1 A5 6th Edition Rule Book
1 Quick Start Guide
1 Mission Booklet
2 Measuring Sticks
Blast Templates
8 White Dice, 2 Red Dice, 1 Scatter Dice

1 Snap-Together Space Marine Terminator Chaplain (Cool, doesn't introduce complex rules a lá the Librarian)
10 Snap Together Tactical Marines (inc Flamer, Missile Launcher, Sergeant) (Standard marines, included in every starter set to date)
5 Snap Together Assault Terminators (Elite choice, cool, different to tactical terminators, offers marines some CC ability)
1 Snap Together Dreadnought (Needs a large 'wow' unit. Tanks would take up too much space on sprues, and dreadnoughts are cooler anyway).

1 Snap-Together Tyranid Prime (Reasonable-sized HQ unit. Opportunity to fill hole in model line)
5 Snap-Together Tyranid Warriors (Equipped for CC, elite unit)
20 Snap Together Termagaunts (Standard horde unit)
5 Snap-Together Spore Mines (tiny sprue footprint, makes things a little more interesting)
1 Snap-Together Carnifex. (big 'wow' unit, and counterpart to the Dreadnought)


Any thoughts?

It would be nice to have a set with no space marines, but I just can't imagine the poster boys not being present.

And even a watered down chaos are to risque to be introduced to a 12yr old as a christmas present.

Pacific wrote:It would be nice to have a set with no space marines, but I just can't imagine the poster boys not being present.

And even a watered down chaos are to risque to be introduced to a 12yr old as a christmas present.

Again:
It's not even that they're "poster boys".

It's just an easier sell than Guard.

I always thought that there should be a set small lot for each army and when 2 people want too start they can mix and match them together?

As much as I dislike the spotlight being on SM, it does make sense for them to be included in a starter set.

They're easy for a new player to see as "the good guys", and they are rather iconic. There's something about them that screams "I'm really cool".

Since a starter set is intended to draw in new players (and, don't we all want 40k to be as popular as possible?), SM has to be one of the armies.

GCMandrake has a really well thought-out post and I'm almost 100% in agreement with him. But, perhaps Ultramarines could be allowed to sit this one out. Perhaps time the starter set to be released at the same time as a SM release. Perhaps a 6th edition BT release? Or, maybe an entirely new chapter, Salamanders, for example.

That would add a bit of variety to the starter set and maybe get some older players excited about it.

I would go for tau vs nids

-tau-
-battlesuit
-fire warriors
-kroot
-hammerhead

-tyranids-
-tyrant
-genstealers
-gargoyles
-carnifex

and with a free code for Dow game series for pc and i am talking about the better oens not the new

Traitor guard (Nurgle) versus Death Korps of Krieg.

Let the lasguns fly!

DorianGray wrote:I would put in Imperial Guard vs... Dark Eldar or Orks.

Just no more Space Marines. No more.

Sorry. Never going to happen. Remember, we want GW to make boatloads of money so that the game stays healthy. Space Marines sell.

kronk wrote:Traitor guard (Nurgle) versus Death Korps of Krieg.

Let the lasguns fly!

DorianGray wrote:I would put in Imperial Guard vs... Dark Eldar or Orks.

Just no more Space Marines. No more.

Sorry. Never going to happen. Remember, we want GW to make boatloads of money so that the game stays healthy. Space Marines sell.

I like how you say "Never gonna happen" in a post where you have both traitor Guard and Death Korps in plastic

If anything, I'm ironic. Or chaotic. I'm not sure.

kronk wrote:Traitor guard (Nurgle) versus Death Korps of Krieg.

Let the lasguns fly!

Yay, gas masks.

What I would put in the starter set? Hmmm, one word says it all "squats".

I think GW made a wonderful job of creating the Assault on Black Reach boxed set. Space Marines vs. Orks is great and the models are perfect.

My only gripe is that I bought it for $60 a year ago. Now it's $90. completely ridiculous pricing.

LOUIE.ROCKETFINGERS wrote:I think GW made a wonderful job of creating the Assault on Black Reach boxed set. Space Marines vs. Orks is great and the models are perfect.

My only gripe is that I bought it for $60 a year ago. Now it's $90. completely ridiculous pricing.

They sold it at a loss to attract new customers. Now that it's selling much more slowly, they're putting the price back up to dissuade veterans from just buying them for cheap marines/orks.

Yeah I understand why they did that. (That's how i got my orks started. sister bought the Black Reach set and gave me the ork portion.) I don't mind thought they have been fun to learn to play and even if I don't win a lot its still fun to see others strategies towards my orks charging.

Grey Knights versus Cultists

Grey Knights versus daemons a bit more serious.


Or maybe space marines versus space marines? Thatd be something new .

Horus Heresy all the way!

Istvaan dropsite massacre FTW! Iron Hands Vs Emperors Children definitely.

Loyalist
Plastic Primarch (!) Ferrus Mannus
10-man tactical squad with Flamer, Missile Launcher and Sergeant with Power Fist
5-man tactical squad all with bolters
1 heresy-era Dreadnought with Multi Melta and Dreadnought CC weapon

Rebels
Plastic Primarch (!) Fulgrim
10-man tactical squad with Plasma Gun, Heavy Bolter and Sergeant with Chainsword
5-man tactical squad all with bolters
1 heresy-era Land Speeder with Multi Melta

Primarchs would have simplified stats to not befuddle newbies. Maybe the same profile as Chapter Masters?

The Terrain should be wrecked pieces of a drop pod, a couple of barricades, and maybe a small earthen bunker.