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2011/05/16 18:21:55
Subject: Re:Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
Grey Templar wrote:basically, the 2 games had the same effect
If ya paid attention during DoW2, you notice that the terminators zap up into the battle barge, then back down onto the battlefield.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/16 18:22:40
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/05/16 18:33:15
Subject: Re:Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
huh?
wadda ya mean?
they disappear from one position and then reappear almost instantly nex to their enemies.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Iproxtaco wrote:But there's still a lot less room to drop inside a city, and buildings will offer a relative amount of protection from orbital and atmospheric assets.
Er. Buildings won't offer a lot of protection from orbital strikes. Nor will a city necessarily offer a lot of protection from drops, since pods can smash through buildings.
I know, that's why I said 'relative'. Relative to standing out in the open with nothing over your head, it's better. Providing you stay inside, the orbiting ships and atmospheric fighters will have a more difficult time locating individual Tau targets, although I understand that The Imperial Navy has no qualms levelling the whole city. The Templars have a preference for targeting the open areas. Tau can more easily pin them in their drop zones using the relative protection of the buildings surrounding. Multi-storey buildings are not a place they want to aim their pods. If they penetrate a few floors or even straight through, the Templars are likely going to be buried beneath a large amount of rubble, and certainly wont be in a good position to assault from.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/05/16 18:37:03
2011/05/16 18:39:02
Subject: Re:Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
they disappear from one position and then reappear almost instantly nex to their enemies.
So you didn't pay attention then.
Whenever a terminator in DoW2 teleports, a bolt of "lightning" as it were strikes them. A fraction of a second pause. Then a bolt of "lightning" strikes the ground in another place and they appear. This is because they are teleporting up and then back down.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/16 18:39:30
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/05/16 18:40:00
Subject: Re:Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Melissia wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:huh?
wadda ya mean?
they disappear from one position and then reappear almost instantly nex to their enemies.
So you didn't pay attention then.
Whenever a terminator in DoW2 teleports, a bolt of "lightning" as it were strikes them. A fraction of a second pause. Then a bolt of "lightning" strikes the ground in another place and they appear. This is because they are teleporting up and then back down.
hmmm,
i'll have to watch more closely then
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Notice how they arrive at the start of this video:
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/05/16 19:28:23
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
The game (rightfully) ignores fluff about the charge up time between teleports. (since most DoW games are over way before they would be ready to reappear)
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2011/05/16 20:06:22
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
BaronIveagh wrote:
You're also assuming that Battlebarges, which are interior even to Tau battleships, will be able to drive off any defenders in order to effect a bombardment.
Inferior in sheer firepower, yes. Inferior in protection? No. Boarding parties, something the Templars excel at using, would take a terrible toll on the Tau crews. While Tau may be able to beat SMs in planetary engagements I don't see them having much to fight off Terminators in a spaceship.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2011/05/16 20:31:55
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
Boarding parties proved very effective against the Tau in the Nimbosa Crusade. The Black Templars smashed through bulk heads and surrounded the Tau, ultimately winning the Orbital station.
2011/05/16 20:32:28
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
iproxtaco wrote:That's a VERY wild statement to make. Give us any evidence to suggest that Crisis suits are ANYWHERE remotely close to a fething Dreadnought. That is the kind of ignorance or wishful thinking I was talking about.
They're the same height (crisis suit: 3.8m, dreadnought: 4m)
They're almost as wide as they are tall, have two heavy weapons, are (in fluff) immune toi small arms fire, I know that iridium armoured crisis suits are 3.8 tonnes, not sure how heavy a dreadnought is, in savage scars, they are described as being only slightly less powerful than dreads.
Basically, they are very slightly lighter versions of dreads (very slightly) and more mobile, anbd deployed en masse.
Dreads best be backin' off...lol
Automatically Appended Next Post:
iproxtaco wrote:Boarding parties proved very effective against the Tau in the Nimbosa Crusade. The Black Templars smashed through bulk heads and surrounded the Tau, ultimately winning the Orbital station.
Boarding actions are the Tau achiles heels...just like cc
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/16 20:34:31
iproxtaco wrote:That's a VERY wild statement to make. Give us any evidence to suggest that Crisis suits are ANYWHERE remotely close to a fething Dreadnought. That is the kind of ignorance or wishful thinking I was talking about.
They're the same height (crisis suit: 3.8m, dreadnought: 4m)
They're almost as wide as they are tall, have two heavy weapons, are (in fluff) immune toi small arms fire, I know that iridium armoured crisis suits are 3.8 tonnes, not sure how heavy a dreadnought is, in savage scars, they are described as being only slightly less powerful than dreads.
Basically, they are very slightly lighter versions of dreads (very slightly) and more mobile, anbd deployed en masse.
Dreads best be backin' off...lol
An XV8 is 2.8 meters tall, and weighs 2.5 tons.
An XV88 is 2.8 meters tall, and weighs 3.8 tons.
Not sure where you're getting your numbers from.
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable.
2011/05/16 20:41:03
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
iproxtaco wrote:That's a VERY wild statement to make. Give us any evidence to suggest that Crisis suits are ANYWHERE remotely close to a fething Dreadnought. That is the kind of ignorance or wishful thinking I was talking about.
They're the same height (crisis suit: 3.8m, dreadnought: 4m)
They're almost as wide as they are tall, have two heavy weapons, are (in fluff) immune toi small arms fire, I know that iridium armoured crisis suits are 3.8 tonnes, not sure how heavy a dreadnought is, in savage scars, they are described as being only slightly less powerful than dreads.
Basically, they are very slightly lighter versions of dreads (very slightly) and more mobile, anbd deployed en masse.
Dreads best be backin' off...lol
A bit late to that argument. Your counter is size and weight? Anything other than a jump-pack, thus long-range mobility that Tau have an advantage over Dreads? Nothing stated there. Dread's can carry a large variety of Heavy Weapons, same as the Tau. Their armour is VASTLY superior, being immune to many forms of heavy weapons fire. They will annihilate in CC and are faster on foot.
No need for those Dreads to back off. Just stand there and take the hits, whilst shooting the Crisis suits from the sky with its Lascannon, and god forbid the Tau get within range of it's close combat weapon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/16 20:42:30
2011/05/16 20:43:23
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
iproxtaco wrote:That's a VERY wild statement to make. Give us any evidence to suggest that Crisis suits are ANYWHERE remotely close to a fething Dreadnought. That is the kind of ignorance or wishful thinking I was talking about.
They're the same height (crisis suit: 3.8m, dreadnought: 4m)
They're almost as wide as they are tall, have two heavy weapons, are (in fluff) immune toi small arms fire, I know that iridium armoured crisis suits are 3.8 tonnes, not sure how heavy a dreadnought is, in savage scars, they are described as being only slightly less powerful than dreads.
Basically, they are very slightly lighter versions of dreads (very slightly) and more mobile, anbd deployed en masse.
Dreads best be backin' off...lol
A bit late to that argument. Your counter is size and weight? Anything other than a jump-pack, thus long-range mobility that Tau have an advantage over Dreads? Nothing stated there. Dread's can carry a large variety of Heavy Weapons, same as the Tau. Their armour is VASTLY superior, being immune to many forms of heavy weapons fire. They will annihilate in CC and are faster on foot.
No need for those Dreads to back off. Just sand there and take the hits, whilst shooting the Crisis suits from the sky with their Lascannon, and god forbid the Tau get within range of it's close combat weapon.
The only advantages I see are speed (an XV8 at full thrust is somewhere around 50kph) and mobility; but I'm not sure what the turning rate for a dread is, so that might not matter.
The only way I can see an XV8 taking out a dread is from behind, at close range, with a plasma rifle or fusion blaster.
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable.
2011/05/16 20:49:59
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
Dreads can rotate on the spot, and I would put my money on the Crisis suit needing to keep far away and use it's superior mobility to stay out of the line of sight. The suit needs to stay out of close range, the Dreadnought is faster on foot, better in CC and could be fitted with an underslung weapon. Melta anyone?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/16 20:50:31
2011/05/16 20:50:47
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
iproxtaco wrote:Dreads can rotate on the spot, and I would put my money on the Crisis suit needing to keep far away and use it's superior mobility to stay out of the line of sight. The suit needs to stay out of close range, the Dreanought is faster on foot, better in CC and could be fitted with an underslung weapon. Melta anyone?
How fast is a Dreadnought walking, anyway?
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable.
2011/05/16 20:51:51
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2011/05/16 20:54:18
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
The only advantages I see are speed (an XV8 at full thrust is somewhere around 50kph) and mobility; but I'm not sure what the turning rate for a dread is, so that might not matter.
The only way I can see an XV8 taking out a dread is from behind, at close range, with a plasma rifle or fusion blaster.
Actually, either front or back is fine, though back is better. Aim for it's feet. If the mini is anything to go by, the feet are moved by a series of pneumatic or hydraulic pistons that are exposed around the feet. A shot from most heavy Tau weapons should be able to sever these exposed points, immobilizing the dread.
I should point out that as of IA:3, Tau are no longer take a penalty when boarded. SM still have their +2 for being SM, but their effectivness against Tau has been halved with the introduction of specially trained firewarriors. So, against certain defense platforms, sure, but against a ship, not as much,
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/16 20:57:01
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2011/05/16 20:54:58
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
iproxtaco wrote:Dreads can rotate on the spot, and I would put my money on the Crisis suit needing to keep far away and use it's superior mobility to stay out of the line of sight. The suit needs to stay out of close range, the Dreanought is faster on foot, better in CC and could be fitted with an underslung weapon. Melta anyone?
How fast is a Dreadnought walking, anyway?
I'm not sure, but they're able to keep up with their fellow Space Marines advance. Definitely not capable of sprinting or 'running'. Their only method of movement is walking, so I'd have to say they have to set a fair pace. Crisis suits are not really supposed to walk all the time, mainly using their jump-pack to move any significant distance.
2011/05/16 20:55:48
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
iproxtaco wrote:Boarding parties proved very effective against the Tau in the Nimbosa Crusade. The Black Templars smashed through bulk heads and surrounded the Tau, ultimately winning the Orbital station.
That is completely expected. The real surprise is that the tau where actually holding them off at the start. The tau are just plain bad at boring actions.
2011/05/16 20:59:25
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
iproxtaco wrote:Boarding parties proved very effective against the Tau in the Nimbosa Crusade. The Black Templars smashed through bulk heads and surrounded the Tau, ultimately winning the Orbital station.
That is completely expected. The real surprise is that the tau where actually holding them off at the start. The tau are just plain bad at boring actions.
Again, this is retconned in IA:3. Tau no longer totally suck at boarding actions having 'gasp' learned something from their contact with the Imperium.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2011/05/16 21:03:09
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
iproxtaco wrote:They clearly are still not as good as space marines, so will fall prey to Black Templars boarding their vessels.
No, they're not equal to Orks or Space marines, however: assuming that the orbital in question is the regular Tau security orbital, a strike cruiser would be very, very lucky to pull this off, since a security orbital, as of FAQ 2010 does not halve it's value in boarding actions. In BFG, as of FAQ 2010, the Strike Cruiser would be in a dead heat with the security orbital, and probably never be able to take it.
Which means there are enough Tau on board to take on the maximum number of Space Marines a strike cruiser can deliver in a boarding action head on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/16 21:19:01
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2011/05/16 21:18:01
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
iproxtaco wrote:Boarding parties proved very effective against the Tau in the Nimbosa Crusade. The Black Templars smashed through bulk heads and surrounded the Tau, ultimately winning the Orbital station.
That is completely expected. The real surprise is that the tau where actually holding them off at the start. The tau are just plain bad at boring actions.
Again, this is retconned in IA:3. Tau no longer totally suck at boarding actions having 'gasp' learned something from their contact with the Imperium.
Ya You posted that well I was posting my thing. Dose it say what these troops look like. What weapons they use or things like that?
iproxtaco wrote:They clearly are still not as good as space marines, so will fall prey to Black Templars boarding their vessels.
Not all the time, just most of the time. Sometimes the tau will get a lucky brake.
2011/05/16 21:21:16
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
Ya You posted that well I was posting my thing. Dose it say what these troops look like. What weapons they use or things like that?
No, it just says that they take "Fire Warrior cadres specially trained in shipboard combat and boarding techniques as an integral part of the crew."
Maybe they are stealth suits, pathfinders, angry kroot with shotguns? They could be trained in some kind of special ops combat style, but I kind of doubt that. They probably sill use some kind of range weapon.
A odd question, but can SM even fit inside of tau space ships? If the tau wanted a good advantage, they could just lower the ceiling .
2011/05/16 21:34:20
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
That's a variable we have absolutely no knowledge of (please correct me if I'm wrong). And Fire Warriors are Fire Warriors. They are not Kroot or Stealth Suits. They DEFINITELY use some sort of ranged weapon, being pitiful in CC.
2011/05/16 21:38:02
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
Hmm, all this talk of boarding has me thinking. SM helmets are supposed to be immune to flash and other disorientation grenades... are they immune to photon grenades? That would be invaluable during boarding combat.
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable.
2011/05/16 21:44:23
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
Nerivant wrote:Hmm, all this talk of boarding has me thinking. SM helmets are supposed to be immune to flash and other disorientation grenades... are they immune to photon grenades? That would be invaluable during boarding combat.
From 40k Wiki -
40k Wiki wrote:Photon Flash flare Explodes with a tremendously powerful flash of light, which will temporarily blind anyone without protection in its area, and may even affect those with protection, such as power-armoured Space Marines.
Someone else may have better sources than wikia.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/16 21:49:08
2011/05/16 21:49:48
Subject: Black Templar Crusade into the Tau Empire.
Nerivant wrote:Hmm, all this talk of boarding has me thinking. SM helmets are supposed to be immune to flash and other disorientation grenades... are they immune to photon grenades? That would be invaluable during boarding combat.
From 40k Wiki -
40k Wiki wrote:Photon Flash flare
Explodes with a tremendously powerful flash of light, which will temporarily blind anyone without protection in its area, and may even affect those with protection, such as power-armoured Space Marines.
Someone else may have better sources than wikia.
Yeah, that makes sense. Space Marines are immune to the Imperial Photon Flash grenade, but the Tau version is a multi-spectrum flash, which is probably effective.
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable.
.