New tyranid model shown/new pics on page 16

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**Railguns**

Or ludicrously killy, but that won't happen. I'm still worried about the Lictor. He just isn't a threat beyond taking out a random fragile thing that was sitting within 6" of cover.

**gorgon**

As I said earlier, with everything else we have in Elites, I'm not sure I even care about the Lictor anymore.

Especially since the Trygon/Mawloc can be a helluva lot more disruptive (albeit at a higher price tag) if disruption is what you're going for.

**Agamemnon2**

It also looks like the Lictor's schtick will be taken over by the Trygon, which will doubtlessly be better at it, too.

**Slackermagee**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Lictor - increased stats (e.g. 3 Wounds), reduced points cost

Won't mean a damned thing if the mother fether isn't T5.

Damn straight. With all the wound buffs and stat increases, I'm going to guess (with some certainty) that the immunity to instant death is GONE, completely. Carnifexes is squads of three? Won't mean gak if they become T5. Warriors and Lictors get three wounds? Battlecannons still annihilate your army list.

Trygon deepstriking into close combat is probably bull. It MIGHT be true if the enemy got free shots as it burrowed up (or some other similarly powerful drawback), which would make sense. Something that big is going to take a long time (in a very vulnerable, reduced mobility state) coming out of the ground.

**gorgon**

As winterman said, if EW is gone it could return in a psychic power. The army's apparently getting some new ones.

**reds8n**

Few more snippets from Scryer in the Darkness and his marketing brief..

"Codex: Tyranids contains a whole new set of creatures that are not yet covered by Citadel Miniatures. Enthusiastic players will want to create their own Tyrannofex or Tervigon with the help of the descriptions and images from the bestiary. (The product brief advises that) these can be assembled from a combination of parts of the Carnifex, Trygon and Tyranid Monstrous Arms Bitz Pack."

"Tyranid Warriors - Can be converted to an Alpha Warrior, a Tyranid HQ, which is ideal to lead a growing army of Tyranids or support a Hive Tyrant in its task. (The product brief advises that) you can combine the Tyranid Warriors kit with the new plastic Raveners to represent an Alpha Warrior."

"Trygon - Many parts of this kit are compatible with the Carnifex, enabling customers to create their own Tyranid monstrosities. In addition to the entry in Codex: Tyranids, there is also the option for Trygon with Ravener Brood 'Tunnel Swarm' formation for Apocalypse."

"Mawloc - Special rule is called 'Terror from the Deep' and it can 'smash defenses'." (This may just be flowery descriptive text rather than necessarily in-game function)

"Pyrovore - Are melee monsters that devour their enemies, beaking down the biomass of their victims and then transforming it into a powerful acid attack (in the form of a flamer template)."

**Agamemnon2**

Tyrannofex? Tervigon?

Are they just throwing words together now?

**Kwosge**

reds8n wrote:Few more snippets from Scryer in the Darkness and his marketing brief..

"Codex: Tyranids contains a whole new set of creatures that are not yet covered by Citadel Miniatures. Enthusiastic players will want to create their own Tyrannofex or Tervigon with the help of the descriptions and images from the bestiary. (The product brief advises that) these can be assembled from a combination of parts of the Carnifex, Trygon and Tyranid Monstrous Arms Bitz Pack."

"Tyranid Warriors - Can be converted to an Alpha Warrior, a Tyranid HQ, which is ideal to lead a growing army of Tyranids or support a Hive Tyrant in its task. (The product brief advises that) you can combine the Tyranid Warriors kit with the new plastic Raveners to represent an Alpha Warrior."

"Trygon - Many parts of this kit are compatible with the Carnifex, enabling customers to create their own Tyranid monstrosities. In addition to the entry in Codex: Tyranids, there is also the option for Trygon with Ravener Brood 'Tunnel Swarm' formation for Apocalypse."

"Mawloc - Special rule is called 'Terror from the Deep' and it can 'smash defenses'." (This may just be flowery descriptive text rather than necessarily in-game function)

"Pyrovore - Are melee monsters that devour their enemies, beaking down the biomass of their victims and then transforming it into a powerful acid attack (in the form of a flamer template)."

Spore Mine Explosions are S4 AP4 Large-Blast. Each one moves independently after they land, When you buy them for Deep-striking they deep strike in BEFORE your opponent places his army. If they go off the table or touch a friendly unit they go away, No Blast. If they touch an enemy unit or are within 6" of one at the end of their movement then they blow up. Spore mine can not capture or even contest anything and don't affect game outcomes (not kill points).
Biovore guns are now Assault and Biovores have Instinctive Behavior - Lurk.

This is the best I could do from a larger copy I saw.

Edit: Also, Spore Mine blow up when they touch impassable terrain and are auto 1-2 on the Mishap Table if they hit impassable terrain or go off the table when Deep-striking.

**reds8n**

Indeed, good eyes there Murph...best money cab buy... err... anyway...

**NAVARRO**

Tyrannofex or Tervigon I like the sound of that!
Thank you for keeping us updated reds8n.

**aka_mythos**

Agamemnon2 wrote:
winterman wrote:Except Ogryn aren't fearless, don't score, can't be made into complex units, don't have access to good cc upgrades, are 5+ save (IIRC, could be wrong) and their guns are limited to 12". Eternal Warrior may still show up in some form also (liek say catalyst psychic power). Other then that it's a good comparison

Still need to see points and synergy though before declaring meh or win.

Warriors as Troops at three wounds per head will be murder...

I'm curious to find out what exactly was made weaker in the new list. I mean, something must have, right? But the only units not quoted as getting improvements are genestealers (who get broodlords as unit champions instead of HQ choices), spore mines and biovores.

Warriors will really need to be pricey for all that they're getting, but I'm betting GW wants to see swarms of warriors sold. They'll be cheap, I bet.

On your second question, the carnifex is what will be weaker. It'll be in a squadron so all those fexes people already own won't go to waste, but at reduced strength their weapons will be less worthwhile. I also bet GW keeps the cost the same.

I think just like the IG codex, all these strengthed units will sound great right up until we see the point price tag. Trygons and warriors are my bets for broken and near broken discounted points costs. Like some of the IG choice they'll be a bit of a no brainer choice.

**Aduro**

NAVARRO wrote:Tyrannofex or Tervigon I like the sound of that!
Thank you for keeping us updated reds8n.

Given you're supposed to use bitz from the larged `Nids, what are the odds these things were the source of the Heridule making it into the codex rumors?

**Agamemnon2**

aka_mythos wrote:On your second question, the carnifex is what will be weaker. It'll be in a squadron so all those fexes people already own won't go to waste, but at reduced strength their weapons will be less worthwhile. I also bet GW keeps the cost the same.

I hope so. Because I'm totally going to charge said carnifex mobs with ogryns, as I expect to see a few super-expensive carnifex broods fielded before people manage to figure the cost-effectiveness ratios out. By the numbers, a five-ogryn squad can kill an 4E carnifex, unless said carnifex has bought S10. If GW has dropped the Strength by 1-2 points which has been rumored, even with additional attacks to balance it out, my money's still on the ogryns.

**warpcrafter**

Aduro wrote:
NAVARRO wrote:Tyrannofex or Tervigon I like the sound of that!
Thank you for keeping us updated reds8n.

Given you're supposed to use bitz from the larged `Nids, what are the odds these things were the source of the Heridule making it into the codex rumors?

Perhaps you could do something with the upper parts of the Trygon, some Carnifex legs and a little kit-bashing to make something that would pass for a Heirodule. I'll have to see the Trygon in person before I'm really sure about that, but it does make me itch to get my hands on them.

**gorgon**

Agamemnon2 wrote:I hope so. Because I'm totally going to charge said carnifex mobs with ogryns, as I expect to see a few super-expensive carnifex broods fielded before people manage to figure the cost-effectiveness ratios out. By the numbers, a five-ogryn squad can kill an 4E carnifex, unless said carnifex has bought S10. If GW has dropped the Strength by 1-2 points which has been rumored, even with additional attacks to balance it out, my money's still on the ogryns.

Rumor is that crushing claws will count as dreadnought CCWs. So S10 in that case.

My impression is that the base S is dropping for shooting reasons. If Carnifexes are S6, VCs become S8, and then it doesn't seem so outrageous if VCs can also penetrate armor.

But at least they'd only be able to glance your Russes' front armor.

**Agamemnon2**

gorgon wrote:Rumor is that crushing claws will count as dreadnought CCWs. So S10 in that case.

GW wants to have the cake and eat it too, I guess. Too bad, as there's practically nothing expensive enough to make it worth charging with Ogryns for, except Greater Daemons, but nobody fields those.

**JohnHwangDD**

Agamemnon2 wrote:I'm curious to find out what exactly was made weaker in the new list. I mean, something must have, right?

I'm assuming Carnifexes will be less good going forward, because they used to be made of awesome sauce.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Tyrannofex? Tervigon?

Are they just throwing words together now?

Mawloc, Pyrovore? Apparently so.

**CurtisT**

Mawloc – Has a large Red Terror style mouth, so possibly a Swallow Whole rule. According to the official GW retail product release, they will be less close combat orientated than the standard Trygon, and when Deep Striking any model touched suffers a S6 AP2 hit and survivors are pushed out the way as the Mawloc emerges. At the end of any subsequent Tyranid movement phase the Mawloc can re-burrow and will automatically arrive the following Tyranid turn applying its special Deep Striking rules.

**FlammingGaunt**

All MC should have at least T6 W4 standard other wise "O I see you have a tank sized creature too bad my dreadnought can instant death it."

**MinMax**

FlammingGaunt wrote:All MC should have at least T6 W4 standard other wise "O I see you have a tank sized creature too bad my dreadnought can instant death it."

Daemon Princes are only T 5.

Wraithlords and the Talos are only W 3.

**LunaHound**

Any news on the dakkafex?
If im not mistaken they are the most popular variant ,
would be awful if they nerfed it...

**JohnHwangDD**

FlammingGaunt wrote:All MC should have at least T6 W4 standard other wise "O I see you have a tank sized creature too bad my dreadnought can instant death it."

All Nids should only be armed with CCWs otherwise "O I see you have a something far away and I can shoot it".

**Da Boss**

Hmmm. With three wounds, warriors would be quite the tough unit if individually equiped. Bit of a nightmare to wipe out, if they're in cover.

Though if they're vunerable to instant death, that's alright.

Not seeing a whole lot here to help with nids traditional weakness- tanks.

**Lukus83**

I foresee that fexes are now our main ranged anti tank weapon of choice. They are apparently getting an increase in ballistic skill so it makes sense that they are carrying the big guns, especially since we now the trygon/mawloc for some deepstrike assaults.

**Railguns**

They are already, they just happen to be the most reliable option in a book suffering from a dearth of reliable anti-tank options. I hope that the Carnifex remains a nasty, nasty, nasty close combat beasty that it should have been all along.

**Lukus83**

I would like to see them play a variety of roles. Guns or cc, you choose. That would be cool (if they de-nerf the VC at least)...though I am personally a huge fan of cc fexes.

**chaos0xomega**

I was really hoping we would see a nerf to ranged weapons and a general increase to cc in the Tyranid army, guess it aint happening...

**Kogwar**

Yes we are getting a mini trygons hurray

**Fateweaver**

Odd how Ogryns are considered junk. In my group the 2 IG players that run 5+Lord Commisar always make their points back with the squad. They got a 15pt increase but are infinitely better than they were before IME (which varies).

Oh, so glad more and more things are finding there way to us. Although any day now I expect a full blown leaked .pdf or a verbatim post from somone dictating into an iphone or other micro recording device.

**FoolWhip**

chaos0xomega wrote:I was really hoping we would see a nerf to ranged weapons and a general increase to cc in the Tyranid army, guess it aint happening...

Nid's are a constantly adapting race. They should be fairly capable all around. That being said, they probably won't have too much in between: Melee oriented units and ranged oriented units.