New tyranid model shown/new pics on page 16

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**Lukus83**

I think nids will excel at cc, but we will be paying a premium for decent ranged damage. That will be fine by me.

**Railguns**

If ranged anti-tank would be priced at a premium, we would need things like deepstrike-assaulting Trygons to fight armored companies and the like.

**Agamemnon2**

Fateweaver wrote:Odd how Ogryns are considered junk. In my group the 2 IG players that run 5+Lord Commisar always make their points back with the squad. They got a 15pt increase but are infinitely better than they were before IME (which varies).

Mostly because that's a 290 point squad. You could have two artillery tanks for that price, and have points left over to buy a plasma gun. Equal points of most things will eat that squad alive.

**Lukus83**

Railguns wrote:If ranged anti-tank would be priced at a premium, we would need things like deepstrike-assaulting Trygons to fight armored companies and the like.

That's exactly my point. Close combat fexes should be considerably cheaper so you can field more of them. If you want to be able to shoot and hurt vehicles then there are less MC's on the board. Of course I'm just guessing here, but I wouldn't mind if this was the case.

**Fateweaver**

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Fateweaver wrote:Odd how Ogryns are considered junk. In my group the 2 IG players that run 5+Lord Commisar always make their points back with the squad. They got a 15pt increase but are infinitely better than they were before IME (which varies).

Mostly because that's a 290 point squad. You could have two artillery tanks for that price, and have points left over to buy a plasma gun. Equal points of most things will eat that squad alive.

I'm just going by what I've experienced both in using them and having them used against me. They will eat an equally costed SG squad and I've seen that setup eat through a equally costed command squad w/apothecary. They even hold termies up for a few rounds, though termies do eventually eat them but what DON'T termies normally eat that isn't a termie?

This isn't a thread to argue effectiveness of Ogryns. They are a good counter assault so we'll leave it at that. I was just defending them as they aren't as rubbish as they appear to be on paper.

**Savnock**

Anybody else here see that very different pic of the biovore as pretty-much-confirmation that we will be seeing a new mini in wave 2? I mean, maybe that's just wishful thinking because I hate the thing so much, but maybe not. The illustration really differs from the current model a lot.

**Lukus83**

I'm not certain, though I hope that's the case too.

**Aduro**

Don't look That different from what we've had, just a much less Orky head.

**NAVARRO**

My Biovores are more than covered with the Pyro,...Yet the Pyro needs to be recreated
For me biovores were always WAY to small to ejaculate spore mines, and really goofy/ugly, the new Pyro model is just about the right size, and looks menacing. Perfect match.

**Schepp himself**

The question really is if the Mawloc can borrow back the turn it appeared? Swooping hawk style. Would be rather nasty.

Greets
Schepp himself

**Lukus83**

Well...are the mawloc rules confirmed? Biovore is set in stone, but until I see it on paper I'm taking it all with a pinch of salt.

**H.B.M.C.**

Guys at GW today said it had Hit & Run. Then again they didn't have the Codex, so what do they know?

The Trygon is nice up close.

**Lukus83**

It sucks that they aren't shipping the codexes with the other stuff. I was planning to buy stuff based on making a playable army first, then bulk out later. As it stands I will just have to buy what I think looks good. Ah well, trygons it is.

**H.B.M.C.**

Well they would do, if not for the printing thing that pushed the release back. Not completely their fault. Just mostly.

And as always, I blame Jervis.

Also, everyone take a quick look to the extreme left of this picture:

Now, those Capillary Towers are, from what I can tell, identical to the FW ones. But then again, the GW Trygon is virtually indistinguishable from the FW one... so are we looking at some of the rumoured Xenos Terrain?

**Lukus83**

Hmmm, interesting. On the GW site it did mention that hive guard are there to protect nid structures. Perhaps we will know more when the new mission book comes out.

**gorgon**

For those who haven't seen them, here's some new rumors courtesy of Scryer in the Darkness on Warseer.

Like on Warseer, the Carnifex cost will probably spark a lot of discussion. For my money, the mycetic spore rumor is far more interesting with more gameplay implications.

Oh, and the Pyrovore still isn't making any sense to me.

The Shadow in the Warp is now 12" range on 3d6, Perils of the Warp on double 1 or 6. Free for Hive Tyrant, Tyranid Warriors and Trygon Alpha.

Hive Tyrant variant called the Swarmlord. Armed with 4 Boneswords (which are greatly improved now), and loaded up with special rules but costs more than a LR.

Zoanthrope variant whose S is equal to the number of Wounds it has... and it can have up to 10.

Pyrovore's template is S6 AP4 (not AP3). Also some talk of it getting to lay down a template every time it eats an enemy model... but I'm not sure if that was just a joke.

Now on to Deep Strike stuff... seems that the Trygon cannot in fact assault a unit he Deeps Strikes onto. Follows the same rules as Drop Pods apparently, i.e. stop within 1", however the same source hints that Mycetic Spore deployment is back, soooo...

And finally some totally alleged points cost and stats...

Trygon 200pts WS5, 6 Wounds, 6 Attacks* : Mawloc 160 pts
Carnifex 170pts WS3, 4 Wounds, 4 Attacks*
* Everybody comes with two pairs of scything talons as standard. There are also some biomorphs as standard but don't know what they are.

**wyomingfox**

Yeah, I think somebody is pulling the wool over scryers eyes

**Axyl**

gorgon wrote:

Oh, and the Pyrovore still isn't making any sense to me.

I get the feeling that the giant cannon on the back of the pyrovore is throwing everyone off. It looks like it should be an artillery creature, but all rumors seems to point towards a CC monster with a flamer attack.

**gorgon**

Some updates from the inimitable Mr. Scryer....

The Shadow in the Warp - Perils is indeed all 3 dice. No discarding of the lowest.

Boneswords - disallow armour saves and if a wound is inflicted then a Ld test must be passed to avoid Instant Death. If a pair of Boneswords, Ld test is taken on 3d6.

Carnifexes - ...hold onto your butts... must be armed identically when in Broods.

Tervigon - is a HQ that spawns Termagants.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Axyl wrote:
gorgon wrote:

Oh, and the Pyrovore still isn't making any sense to me.

I get the feeling that the giant cannon on the back of the pyrovore is throwing everyone off. It looks like it should be an artillery creature, but all rumors seems to point towards a CC monster with a flamer attack.

It doesn't look like other Tyranid CC creatures, the gun doesn't look anything like something that'd be a short-ranged flamer attack, and the angle of the gun isn't even right to be that kind of attack.

I really wonder if the rules for this thing changed after the sculpting was done.

**Railguns**

Why would a monstrous creature, who already ignores armor saves, need a weapon that ignores armor saves? A 10W Zoanthrope type creature? With those points costs and stats, I hope that Carnifexes and trygons don't occupy the same force org slots without the bioguns becoming much, much more powerful and Carnifexes shifting from their classical role as assault beasts to gunbeasts, which was a shameful necessity of 4th edition. This stuff seems silly and I wonder about the credibility.

**Platuan4th**

Railguns wrote:Why would a monstrous creature, who already ignores armor saves, need a weapon that ignores armor saves?

It wouldn't.

But Warriors might if they remembered that 1st and 2nd ed Warriors carried pairs of swords.

**Railguns**

Which would be incredible. I'd enjoy that, but I'm sure the sprue isn't going to be recut to include them.

Instant death isn't as useful against characters getting eternal warrior left and right, but it would help against things like, oh, Nob Bikers. It's almost as if GW is out to de-popularize Nob Bikers by giving every codex since them a nearly sure fire method of nuking them.

**gorgon**

Considering they've giving us more than one creature for which they're actually recommending that we kitbash miniatures for, I don't think it's a stretch to think Warriors will have a bonesword option.

I might have to rip some arms off my old bucktoothed plastics.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Regarding credibility, etc., this stuff is likely 99% accurate. I agree a lot sounds weird. I had that same reaction when the first bit of rumors broke. But now I think what we're looking at is a very different and complex codex. It's not going to be a slight evolution from the 4th ed. version, like that one was from 3rd.

Again, just ponder mycetic spore deployment. That *could* have a huge impact on the army.

**Railguns**

The seeding swarm list from 3rd edition used mycetic spore deployment. It ruined my Tau army without a fight.

**winterman**

My gut reaction was to go WTF regarding the 170 point carnifex but there is much that is un-said there. Knowing how IG codex was done and also the warrior stat boosts, I suspect one or more of the following.

-Bundle much used biomorphs as standard. BS3 already mentioned, I suspect 2+ armor save(since warriors come standard w/ 4+ now) and possibly others will be automatic also.

-Carnifexes will get a new rule. I suspect it will be cc oriented so that gunfexes become less efficient pointwise. There was a scetchy rumor of the psuedo tankshock/ram ability seems more plausible looking at this point cost. Also really characterful for a carnifex.

-Biomorphs and weapons could get cheaper/free. So high entry cost but not as bad total cost once kitted. Lots of this in 5ed codexes.

-We don't know if the A4 is with or without scytals,now how weaponry works in the new codex. That is a big xfactor.

-Carnifexes in mycetic spores or crazy synergy with some psychic power or rule is also an xfactor.

Basically I am not calling sky is falling until we see the full picture.

**NAVARRO**

Tervigon - is a HQ that spawns Termagants

Big ass queen body!

**gorgon**

Well, the floodgates are opening now. From BramGaunt on Warseer:

Some of this has been posted before, I'll post it again, plus all I remember.

Generel rules:

Synapse Creatures

units within 12 inches are fearless. No eternal warrior.

Feral behaviour: each tyranid unit not in range of a Synapse creature has to pass a morale check or falls back to instinctive behaviour. Melee-creatures move as fast as possible to the next enemy, while shooting creatures go for the next cover and shoot at the nearest enemies. What they do is said in their entries.

Weapons: Weaponsymbionts are no longer modified by the creature they weald it. There are heavy variants of most of them for the bigger creatures.

Venom Cannon: uses 3" blast now. They suffer a additional -1 penalty against vehicles. So, a glancing hit is - 3, a penetration - 1. You can wrec vehicles with this weapon now =)

Heavy Venom Canon: S9, same as above.

Scything Talons: One pair of tham grants you rerolls on all 1's you roll to hit, two pairs allow you to reroll all of them. Bonesword causes instant death, as long as you do not pass a morale check after suffering a wound. If you bear two pairs, the morale check is made with 3 dice.

Tentacle whip: reduces the initiative of all models attacking the bearer to 1.

Crusher Claws grant d3 additional attacks.

Lots more similar changes.

Biomorphs:

They grant general special abilities now.

Examples: Toxic Glands grant you poisonod attacks (4+), adrenalin grants furious charge, etc. A injector grants Instant death on each to wound roll of 6. I don't remember them all, though.

Units:

HQ: Hive Tyrant, Alpha Warrior, Tervigon. Named ones: A special Hive Tyrant, already mentioned, and a parasite-spreading winged horror.

Hive Tyrant: Initiative 6, Weaponskill 8. Starts of with a pair of cything talons, a tentacle whip and a Bonesword. Might be given wings or heavy carapace (2+ armour save)

May chose from 4 different psychic powers:
Mental scream:
all enemy units within 18 " have to pass a morale check. if they fail it, they suffer the difference between the roll and their morale characteristic as casulties with no armour saves allowed.

Lifeleech: one unit within 12 " suffer D3 autohits S3 AP2. for each casulty they suffer, the Hive Tyrant is granted one life point, up to a maximum of 10.

One that forces a unit to do a morale check or to fall back.

One shooting attack.

He might be given tactical advances, as for example to grant one standard unit outflank and +1 to reserve rolls.

Has lots of wapons available.

The special Hive Tyrant has Weaponskill 9. Wardsaves passed against wounds from him have to be rerolled.

He may buff one unit within 18 inches with prefered enemy, furious charge or two other special abilities.

Alpha Warrior:

Weaponskill 6, which he passes to a unit of warriors he joins.

Tervigon: Creates 3d6 termagaunts with standard loadout each movement phase, even if he's in close combat.

If he dies, gaunts near him suffer heavy losses.

He has his own psychic powers, though i don't remember them.

The horror is a hit and run monster with wings. Each enemy unit outflanking may suffer casualties: your oponent names one model within the unit, it has to pass a toughness test. if it fails it is killed and the tyranidplayer gets D6 Ripperswarms. He may do thesame to victims he kills in close combat.

Each Hive Tyrant may be given a Tyrant guard.

Elite

Hive Guard: up to 3 per unit, Ballistic skill of 4.

their weapons are 24 inches, S8, AP4 and assault 2.

Lictors: 1 - 3 per slot, they act together as one unit. Deployed like marbo.
still grant +1 to reserve rolls. Deep striking units do not scatter if deployed within 6 inces of a lictor, as long as he was on the table for at least one turn.

Ymgarls Genestealers:

They are NOT a named unit. basically, they are Genestealers, which can morph: they may increase their Attacks, Toughness or strength characteristic at the beginning of each close combat phase.

they have the rule "hibernation": note one piece of terrain. whey the genestealers become available, they are placed in this piece of terrain. they may move, shoot and charge.

Unit size 5 - 10, no broodlord for them.

Zoanthropes:
Warp field grants 3+ ward save.
have to psycic powers: warp lightning and warp lance. warp lightning is S6 AP3 3 blaste, while the warp lance is S10 DS 2 Assault 1, lance at 18 inches.

squads of 3.

There is a named Zoanthrope which is a real pain in the ass for everyone, leachinglots of lifepoints with a strong 5 " template shooting attack.

The death leaper is his own elite choice, named. WS9, Initiative 7. Me is deployed like a lictor, but may retreat and be replaced text turn.

Core

Hormagaunts:
Weapon skill 3, S3, Initiative 5, 2 attacks.

Infantery.

May be given poison glands and adrenalin. Unit size 10 - 30

Gaunts:
come with.... no idea what the weapon is named in english, but it's S4 AP 5 assault 1.
For each 10 gaunts, one may be upgraded with a S2 flamethrower that wounds against the strength characteristig.

Warriors: Weapon skill 5, lots of options. 4+ Armour save.
If led by a Alpha warrior they take up his Weaponskill.

Genestealers: Mostly the same as before, less options. Point cost lower than Grey hunters, though. No way to boost their armour save.

Have infiltrators and fleet.

Broodlord comes with his old profile, at a point cost of a longang with a heavy boltgun.
May have two psycic powers: Confusion, which makes both player roll a D6 and add the morale characteristics of a model chosen by the tyranid player. If the result of the tyranid player is the same or higher, the chosen miniature may not attack in this close combat phase.
The other ability reduces the morale characteristic of surrounding enemies by 1.

Assault:
Winged warriors are assault.

Gargoyles: we knewe about them.

Harpies:
The Harpie is a flying, Trygon-sized creature that acts as a bomber. It may deploy Spore mines at a unit it flies over. Is a monstrous creature.

Raveners: come with two pairs of scything talons. May have a thorax swarm: thorax swarms are a special weapon, the ammunition is chosen at the beginnig of the game. 3 different flamer variants.

Heavy Support:
Carnifexes: In squads of three. Have to carry the same loadout.

You cannot boost their initiative, and I am almost sure that you cannor surpass 3+ Armour save.
when charging, carnifexes increase their initiative by t. If you buy them adrenaline ,that grants you Initiative 4 and strength 10. They still have 9 in the profile.
Carnifexes start with two pairs of scything talons and 4 attacks.

Trygon: WS6, S6, 6 Lifepoints and 6 attacks.

Has a shooting attack, S6, ap5, assault 6, 12 " range.

If upgraded to a Alpha Trygon, he has 18 " and assault 12.

Tyrannofex: My favorite. a walking weapon battery.

Weapons are: Fleshborer swarm, S4 ap 5 assault 20

pyroacid spray: S6 ap 4 flamer templated, used exactly like the hellhound.

Capsule cannon: S10, AP4, assault 2, 48 " range.

unneccesary to mention that he's a monstrous creature with high toughness.

**Platuan4th**

gorgon wrote:

Gaunts:
come with.... no idea what the weapon is named in english, but it's S4 AP 5 assault 1.
For each 10 gaunts, one may be upgraded with a S2 flamethrower that wounds against the strength characteristig.

I hope this is true, as I have some of the old Strangleweb Gaunts looking for a squad.

Still nothing doing on my poor Spike Rifle Gaunts, it seems.

**JD21290**

Platuan, was just about to post about the web

I may have to make a few (used to use barbed's hacked up)

May give a shooty nid army a go, rather than mash the trygon spam.

**Platuan4th**

JD21290 wrote:Platuan, was just about to post about the web
I may have to make a few (used to use barbed's hacked up)

May give a shooty nid army a go, rather than mash the trygon spam.

Yeah, I'm almost glad now to have so many Termagants.