'Nids in February? No, January!!!

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**RUNE**

ouch

**Railguns**

And apparently melta-deathspitters(the re-cut warrior sprue no longer contains deathspitters)

**Tim the Biovore**

bhsman wrote:I mean that that's what they would offer over Genestealers: better saves and access to ranged guns. And, admitted I don't play Tyranids (yet), so what's wrong with the current Warriors kit?

1. There is a pair of scythin talons that are too big for warriors but too dorky for fexes.
2. The rending claws don't look good. They look like they'd get sycuk in someone not slash through them.
3. The barbed strangler/venom cannon, well it looks like a cross between the two and does poorly to represent both. I had to pull it off it was so poor.

But that is just IMO. And I don't want people saying I'm a loser for saying this stuff.

**JohnHwangDD**

@Tim: So basically, you don't like the MC weapons sprue at all?

**H.B.M.C.**

Well the newer one that comes with the current Hive Tyrant is better - its guns are bigger and the talons fit with the current style.

**ghosty**

i just checked the GW site and clicked the incoming tyranids button....and i saw.....oh god i cant believe what i saw......they cant bring squats back!!! they just....cant!

oh btw though looks like mycetic spores wil be in the new tyranids army book.....as you know...theres one on the front.

but seriously.

dwarfs in space -.o

it looks like a bloody warhamer engineer model with a bloody enginseerbackpack!!!

**Railguns**

It's not a Squat. It's the White Dwarf in space.

**oldone**

Sort of going off topic but still it is a white dawft in space
now bringing it back on topic having hioudules (sos about spelling) in the codex isn't a bad thing but i thought they where going to move us away from MC spaming like nidzillla too a more horde sytle thing are is it going to be a mix like 30-40 of gaunts too 2-3 MC and a few warriors and genstealler ized models?

**MilkmanAl**

The Hierodule would single-handedly break the game if it was available for non-Apoc games. That isn't going to happen. If the point cost rumors (3 point base Gaunts with WoN, 6 point, 3A Hormagaunts) are true, we should see substantial horde components to new Tyranid armies. Those costs are way too good to pass up.

**H.B.M.C.**

MilkmanAl wrote:The Hierodule would single-handedly break the game if it was available for non-Apoc games.

How, exactly? 'Cause it has Bio-Cannons? Because it has more wounds than most things? How exactly?

Super-Heavies and Gargantuan Creatures really aren't all that durable. The perception is that they lay waste to everything before them, but the truth is often far removed from that perception.

**Broken Loose**

MilkmanAl wrote:The Hierodule would single-handedly break the game if it was available for non-Apoc games. That isn't going to happen. If the point cost rumors (3 point base Gaunts with WoN, 6 point, 3A Hormagaunts) are true, we should see substantial horde components to new Tyranid armies. Those costs are way too good to pass up.

Huh, kind of like how certain armies have absolutely no way of even harming AV14, not even considering the glancing/rending nerfs?

Or how Fliers would single-handedly break non-Apoc games?

Or 6 point Boyz with an extra attack, fleet, and furious charge?

I'm not saying Heirodules will be in the codex, but currently they're just large and expensive gun platforms (that almost can't get cover saves) with demolisher cannons that fire shots instead of large blasts-- from a BS3 model. Or is that too overpowered for you? Or how about that they don't even have the decency to get invulnerable saves in addition to being inable to get cover saves? If you fire 4 meltaguns at a vehicle, you still have to roll 7+ on 2D6 and then a 4+ to destroy. If you fire 4 meltaguns at a tyranid, all you have to do is not roll 1's and you've already done your damage.

In fact, removing the Gargantuan creature rule (like what happened with the Valkyrie) would take away 12" movement and immunity to psychic powers, turning them into nothing more than very pricey Carnifexes with an indiscriminate batch of stacked defensive biomorphs.

**winterman**

Compare the rough cost of that heirodule to the current carnifex. You can probably get 5 cheap carnifexes for the points of one heirodule. I think the 5 carnifexes are a stronger option: 2.5 times more wounds, way more shooting and assault potential, more targets and more opportunities to contest objectives, etc etc. Even if it was 4 carnifexes they'd still be a better buy overall. Nidzilla doesn't break the game now so I can't see a hierodule doing so. T8 is tough but there's quite alot of anti-tank weaponry out there that will care less. Just ask any eldar players.

**MilkmanAl**

Assuming it's a normal game option, I'm not convinced it's going to be as expensive as you think. I'd bet it'll be in the 400 point range, tops, and I would sure as hell take a Hierodule over 3.5 cheap Carnifexes (under current rules, that is). At least AV14 things have a chance to be popped immediately with the proper weaponry and might lose effectiveness as the game goes on. This guy is still there pumping out 8 S10 AP3 shots or 8 S10 attacks per turn until that last wound is gone. All the conventional anti-MC weaponry is a hell of a lot less effective against it, too. What if you can have more than one of them? Then what happens? Each one is going to take a huge amount of focused high-strength firepower to kill; no lucky shots are going to bring them down.

I dunno, maybe it won't be totally broken if they make them cost 600+ points, but I don't see that happening. Again, I'm betting this is an Apoc-only monster.

**FlammingGaunt**

I Kinda like the idea of having a heirodule in a non apoc but I dont think that it would be cost effective. Also biomorphs need to stay and I like the S based ranged system. It's not hard to do everyone I've played against understands it all they asks is for an army list. And the Alpha beast thing is just like the ork dex, WarBoss gives troop nobs, Big mek gives dred troop, wazdakka biker troops.

**Wannabe Writer**

I don't think Hierodules will be in the codex. It would be like putting the Baneblade in the Imp Guard dex, which they didn't do.
Plus Hierodules are not as indestructable as you might think. In current Apoc rules they are toughness 8 with a save of +3. I've had my two Hierodules taken down by lascannon fire, melta guns, a squad of termies with power fists, anything that is designed to kill power armour will do the job. Their durability comes from being fast and having plenty of attacks (scythed) or plenty of high strength shots (barbed) and having six wounds (which don't last long in an Apoc game). I still use mine as they are fun to use and look really impressive, however they rarely last more then a turn or two when they arrive (they make for a pretty big bullet magnet).

In the past, before Apocalypse, you could use them in 40K games using the Forge World rules. Then they were nigh indestructable. They had a 2+ save (I still don't know why they didn't get that in Apoc, especially when a Fex can have a +2 save), lots of wounds, high toughness and mass points! Mass points meant it was extremely hard to wound them and even once the mass points were gone it still had six wounds. The barbed hierodule was not as good as it's current Apoc version, what with the cannons counting as twin linked single large blast Str 8 Ap 3 and only 2 attacks basic in CC. The scythed was amazing however, with 5 attacks basic and an Ap 3 heavy flamer in it's back. Plus in the Forge World rules enemies were not pushed back from combat at the end of each turn, so if you failed to wipe out a sqd in one go you could carry on whacking them till the job was done. The only drawback was that as they were so big the rules stated you could still shoot at a hierodule in CC as long as the model it was in CC with was not another gargantuan creature/super heavy.

**Tim the Biovore**

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Tim: So basically, you don't like the MC weapons sprue at all?

Yeah, I guess so. We need a gaunt command, providing a small extension to the range of a synapse creature.

**Neith**

Wannabe Writer wrote:I don't think Hierodules will be in the codex. It would be like putting the Baneblade in the Imp Guard dex, which they didn't do.
Plus Hierodules are not as indestructable as you might think. In current Apoc rules they are toughness 8 with a save of +3. I've had my two Hierodules taken down by lascannon fire, melta guns, a squad of termies with power fists, anything that is designed to kill power armour will do the job. Their durability comes from being fast and having plenty of attacks (scythed) or plenty of high strength shots (barbed) and having six wounds (which don't last long in an Apoc game). I still use mine as they are fun to use and look really impressive, however they rarely last more then a turn or two when they arrive (they make for a pretty big bullet magnet).

Yeah, I think when I get my Hierodule (Scythed), I'll use it as a shocktroop- move it as fast as possible into the enemy lines and kill as much as possible before going down in a spectacular fashion. T8 is hard to wound, but most Heavy Weapons will have no problem taking it down (Lascannon would only need 3+ to Wound and would punch through the Hierodule's armour straight away, as it has no Inv save). To me, it just stands out as a much bigger, faster, more badass Carnifex. Realistically, when you bring a model onto the field that is so big, it's going to attract a lot of attention/bullets/death. You know its time will be shortlived, so you have to make the most use of it while you can. Outside of Apoc though...it'd be a force to be reckoned with- I don't think I'd use one in regular 40k, because it seems a bit unfair to use

I'm not sure it'll be in the Codex though; maybe one large unit (I'm thinking Trygon or Malanthrope, if anything), but not as many as that list made out.

Can't wait for the Codex, and can't wait to go get a Hierodule

**JohnHwangDD**

Tim the Biovore wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:@Tim: So basically, you don't like the MC weapons sprue at all?

Yeah, I guess so.

We need a gaunt command, providing a small extension to the range of a synapse creature.

OK, just checking.

You *had* a Gaunt command "Hive Node" or somesuch in your previous Codex, didn't you?

**wyomingfox**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Tim the Biovore wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:@Tim: So basically, you don't like the MC weapons sprue at all?

Yeah, I guess so.

We need a gaunt command, providing a small extension to the range of a synapse creature.

OK, just checking.

You *had* a Gaunt command "Hive Node" or somesuch in your previous Codex, didn't you?

Yep, back in 3rd edition. Very usefull as guants didn't need to be chaparoned by otherwise slow synapse.

**Necros**

Dunno if this was posted, looked around and didn't see it.. guy in my club posted this on our board, he found somewhere else on the web. Usual grains of salt shall required, but...

today I had a chat with my friend again. When I asked him if he could tell me any more about the nids he produced a sheet of paper which looked quite like the summary sheet you get at the last pages.

When he went for the tiolett I quickly took out a pen and copiet as much as I was able to.

take from this what you want but I think there are several exciting bits (look at that hive tyrant alpha... or the fact that the hierodule is in!). any ideas what the two weapon attributes "strangle" and "subconscious weapon" could be?

Creatures: WS Bs S T W I A LDS Sv:A Sv:I
Hive Tyrant 5 3 5 6 4 5 3 10 3
Hive Tyrant Alpha 7 4 7 8 6 7 6 10 2
Tyrant guard 5 3 5 6 2 5 2+2 10 3
Broodlord 6 3 5 5 3 7 3+2 10 4
Broodlord Alpha 8 3 6 5 4 9 7+2 10 3
Brood Magus 5 4 4 4 3 6 3 10 2 4
Tyranid Warrior 4 2 4 4 2 4 2+2 10 4
Tyranid Warrior: Winged 4 2 4 4 2 4 2+2 10 5
Tyranid Warrior: Guardian 5 3 5 5 2 4 2+2 10 3
Lictor 9 0 6 4 3 9 3+2 10 5 4
Genestealer 6 0 4 4 1 6 2 10 5
Gaunt 3 3 3 3 1 4 1 5 6
Hormagaunt 4 3 3 3 1 4 1+2 5 6
Ripper Swarm 3 1 3 3 3 2 3 10 6
Ravener 5 3 4 4 2 5 3 10 5
Ravener Alpha 7 4 6 5 4 7 6 10 3
Trygon 6 3 8 7 6 5 8 10 2 4
Gargoyle 3 3 3 3 1 4 1 10 6
Zoantrophe 3 4 4 4 2 4 2 10 2 3
Malantrope 3 4 6 5 4 4 5 10 2 3
Exocrene 3 4 10 8 6 1 3 10 2 4
Biovore 3 3 4 5 2 1 1 10 3
Carnifex 4 2 7 6 4 3 3+4 10 3
Hierodule 4 3 10 8 8 3 4+4 10 2

Weapons: Range S AP
Barbed Strangler 36" S-1 5 Assoult 1 5" Blast, Strangle
Devourer 18" S-1 - Assoult 2X Living Ammonition, max S:6
Deathspitter 24" S+1 5 Assoult 1 3" Blast, Melta
Fleshborer 12" S+1 5 Assoult X Living Ammonition, max S:6
Spinebanks 12" S 5 Assoult X Twin Linked, Subconscious Weapon
Venom Cannon 36" S+2 4 Assoult 2X Poison (2+)
Biocannon 48" S 3 Assoult 2X

Mines: S AP
Bioazid 5 3 3" Blast Lance, 2d6 vs Armor
Toxic Gas 3 - 3" Blast Poison (2+), no cover saves allowed
Strangler 2 5 5" Blast Strangle
Spine Frag 6 4 5" Blast

I hope this isnt against copyrights but technically the dex isnt yet out so this could also all be wrong?.

also this morsel

There was much talk about the Tyranid codex. He started off by saying he can't talk about specifics. He was however, quite amenable to talking about the issues with the current Lictor rules.

"Well yeah, the way the rules for them work at the moment just doesn't make much sense with the current edition. Why would they be encountering 'dangerous terrain' if they were hiding in it all along..."

Continuing on, he talked about the design process a little.

"When we sit down to work on the new codex, we had a big pile of letters with all the issues of the last codex in them. So we basically split it into 3 piles. Must-fix. Should-fix. Then a would-be-nice. Now, I won't be giving much away by saying the first pile was filled with Spore Mine and lictor issues. I think what we've done with the Lictor is the best representation yet of their abilities. But then I would say that, wouldn't I?"

Someone also asked him "whether biomorphs are back?"

"Well, I can't talk about specifics, however, you should take a look at the 5th edition codexes, they all follow a similar format with their army lists. The tyranid codex continues the same way, so make of that what you will."

I think that's games developer speak for, "there will be biomorph upgrades and they will take the form of the 'every squad member may take adrenal gland upgrades for +X points per model.'"

Lastly, a found another post the describes the Broodlord makes Genestealers a troops choice!

**oldone**

Why are you coplianing that the an garaguew creatue is in the codex if you don't like it just don't use it like the thunder clavery from space pups if you just don't ike them just don't use them

**wuestenfux**

Latest news from The Dude from Warseer:

General info

Released January 2010

Written by Robin Cruddace and 96 pages long.

Codex Cover – Art by Adrian Smith

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attach...9&d=1254136277

Box art background:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attach...9&d=1254475533

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attach...8&d=1254475499

Rules

Army-wide Special Rules and Biomorphs

Many and new improved psychic abilities in the book.

The Incoming Tyranids article on the GW website makes mention of new Tyranid Species. The Trygon is likely one, but there may be more (possibly up to 4 total).

HQ

Hive Tyrant – No news yet

Tyrant Guard – No news yet

Broodlord – Early rumours of the Broodlord allowing Elite Genestealers as Troops.

Elites

Tyranid Warriors - More emphasis on Tyranid Warriors in this book, perhaps even allowing you to take them in every FOC slot. For example if they have wings then they're Fast Attack, Tougher/Stronger and heavy weapons in Heavy Support etc.

Lictor – Possibly an additional “psychic" variant

Troops

Genestealers – No news yet

Gaunts – No news yet

Ripper Swarm – No news yet

Fast Attack

Gargoyles – No news yet

Raveners – No news yet

Spore Mines – No news yet

Heavy Support

Carnifex – No news yet

Biovore – Rumoured new type believed to have a Pyro Acid spray weapon.

Zoanthrope – No news yet

Trygon - Different builds available, presumably with different powers ala Carnifex kit.

Minis
Games workshop have said here that there will be 3 new Plastic kits and 3 new metal models released with the Codex.

Trygon (Plastic kit) – No news yet

Gargoyles (Plastic kit) – No news yet

Raveners (Plastic kit) – No news yet

Metal Miniatures – One rumoured to be a Biovore (likely the new Biovore variant). No news on the others.
__________________

**winterman**

@necros: That summary is from BoLS lounge and there's a link to it 2 pages back. That is what the last two pages are discussing. And yeah salt is needed.

The last part is from warseer though and is apparently Robin Cruddace. I found it interesting that they actually reviewed peoples concerns and decided what to do about them.

**wuestenfux**

winterman wrote:
The last part is from warseer though and is apparently Robin Cruddace. I found it interesting that they actually reviewed peoples concerns and decided what to do about them.

This was particularly the case with the new Space Marines.
They asked players at Warseer, not directly but via Brimstone.

**Necros**

I dunno why they have to ask via anyone.

Why can't they just put a web page on their site that says "Hi kids, we're working on XYZ army and we'd like to hear your thoughts on what you love or hate about them now so we can fix them with the new codex. click here to email us."

**avantgarde**

Because then GW would have to communicate with the unwashed masses, and when I say unwashed I literally mean unwashed. Haven't you seen that subtle sneer of contempt on the GW rep who has to present slayer swords or golden daemons?

**MilkmanAl**

oldone wrote:Why are you coplianing that the an garaguew creatue is in the codex if you don't like it just don't use it like the thunder clavery from space pups if you just don't ike them just don't use them

I think someone sneezed and scrambled your sentence. Seriously, those squiggly red lines are there for a reason.

Why can't they just put a web page on their site that says "Hi kids, we're working on XYZ army and we'd like to hear your thoughts on what you love or hate about them now so we can fix them with the new codex. click here to email us."

Face control. It's kind of arbitrary who GW chooses to go through, and while that go-between's opinions will certainly be reflected in which ideas and concepts get passed along, it's better than them getting an avalanche of ZOMG FIX SPOR MIENS! emails or having to sort through all the "make Terminators S5, T5, W2 for the same cost" wishlisting. In other words, they save time by having a bull

filter.

**FlammingGaunt**

Face control. It's kind of arbitrary who GW chooses to go through, and while that go-between's opinions will certainly be reflected in which ideas and concepts get passed along, it's better than them getting an avalanche of ZOMG FIX SPOR MIENS! emails or having to sort through all the "make Terminators S5, T5, W2 for the same cost" wishlisting. In other words, they save time by having a bull filter.

I'm going to haft to agree with you I mean they should ask people but getting a large crowd of people to shout ideas is never a good thing.
I do have a problem with making apoc creature in the new codex which stats do you use? maybe IG players can answer that one.

**Elliotminorkid**

TBD wrote:Some guys who work across the street from the sister in law of the mailman who lives two blocks from Jervis Johnson's pedicure might have heard.

But I can't confirm it.

Lol brilliant

. Its skaven next anyways, theres even pics on the gw site.

**MilkmanAl**

Maybe, but the big revelation at Game Day or whatever was that the Tyranid codex is due out in January. That much is confirmed. It's all the rumblings about what's actually in the codex that have not been confirmed.