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Okay, so the last time they allied it didn't end too well for the SoB, but they probably don't even know that happened (the lowly Sororitas anyway), and they're both part of the =I= so why not?

Well, first off, the Sisters are not part of the Inquisition. Never were.

 curran12 wrote:
Well, first off, the Sisters are not part of the Inquisition. Never were.

You know what I mean xD They both have the same sort of connection with the Inquisition, and they both worship the Emperor...

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Well, first off, the Sisters are not part of the Inquisition. Never were.

You know what I mean xD They both have the same sort of connection with the Inquisition, and they both worship the Emperor...

They really don't have the same connection anymore. GK are an Order Militant; SOB are not. Pretty much every space marine chapter and imperial organization 'worships' the emperor in their own way.

I'm only putting this up because in a previous thread people wanted to know if GK and SoB would ally, I'm not here to argue whether they're part of the =I= or not, I'm trying to get a question answered .-. Sorry if that sounds rude, but isn't that what forums are for?

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Well, first off, the Sisters are not part of the Inquisition. Never were.

You know what I mean xD They both have the same sort of connection with the Inquisition, and they both worship the Emperor...

So does every other Imperial faction. The Inquisition can bring in Guard and call in favors from Space Marines, and most revere/worship the Emperor to varying degrees.

So...no, I don't know what you mean.

But aren't the GK not described as an Ordo Militant either in the 6e rulebook? Meanwhile the SoB are still described as working closely with the Ordo Hereticus, which certainly sounds like a Chamber Militant relationship.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But to answer OP's question, sure, a team-up is feasible. Both holy warriors that fight Chaos. Though in terms of the Allies Matrix, I think they're fine as allies of convinience.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
I'm only putting this up because in a previous thread people wanted to know if GK and SoB would ally, I'm not here to argue whether they're part of the =I= or not, I'm trying to get a question answered .-. Sorry if that sounds rude, but isn't that what forums are for?

Well, part of answering your question is to explain that you were off-base in some of your initial points. I mean, there's no point in answering a question that begins with incomplete or incorrect information.

You didn't know, so we had to point out the mistake to you.

That said, I do not like Grey Knights with my Sisters in terms of fluff. The whole blood tide thing annoys me, but it isn't some kind of deal-breaker for me, I mostly see Sisters and Grey Knights being very different in terms of roles and jobs, and those jobs would rarely coincide. Their current place as AoC works nicely.

I can see alliances working, especially against mutual enemies, but a regular partnership? Not really.

For the Inquisition, that is a little more likely, imo.

Good freaking lord. Can you guys stop trying to be right and just answer the guy's question?

This is why Dakka gets a bad reputation.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Good freaking lord. Can you guys stop trying to be right and just answer the guy's question?

This is why Dakka gets a bad reputation.

Better said than I

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Good freaking lord. Can you guys stop trying to be right and just answer the guy's question?

We did, bud. Check the end of mine and curran's last posts.

Troike wrote:But to answer OP's question, sure, a team-up is feasible. Both holy warriors that fight Chaos. Though in terms of the Allies Matrix, I think they're fine as allies of convinience.

curran12 wrote:I can see alliances working, especially against mutual enemies, but a regular partnership? Not really.

For the Inquisition, that is a little more likely, imo.

BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Good freaking lord. Can you guys stop trying to be right and just answer the guy's question?

This is why Dakka gets a bad reputation.

Better said than I

Except multiple people answered his question already. So mostly, it is just another reason that VS is on ignore.

Text removed.

Reds8n

The "Bloodtide Incident", as I've taken to calling it, is perfectly suited to the martyr nature of the SOB, and, likewise, perfectly suited to the "get the job done at any cost" nature of the GK.

The problem is, on the page, it is horribly written. With the addition of four extra sentences, it could have been completely awesome for both factions.... but instead, we got what we got.

So, sure, GK/SOB allies. Knock yourself out.

Troike wrote:But aren't the GK not described as an Ordo Militant either in the 6e rulebook? Meanwhile the SoB are still described as working closely with the Ordo Hereticus, which certainly sounds like a Chamber Militant relationship.

Small nerdy nitpick:

Ordo = a faction or cell within the Inquisition, like the Ordo Malleus
Order Militant = a convent of the Sisters of Battle
Chamber (Militant) = an Inquisitorial Ordo's household troops

Just because I saw those terms getting mixed up a bit in the previous posts.

Troike wrote:sure, a team-up is feasible. Both holy warriors that fight Chaos. Though in terms of the Allies Matrix, I think they're fine as allies of convinience.

Hmmm. I tend to agree. Unlike pretre, I still think the Sisters are the Ordo Hereticus' Chamber Militant, and will continue to do so until the material explicitly retcons this connection. However, just because both forces have a history of service for the Inquisition doesn't necessarily mean they'd be BFF. There's a lot of internecine rivalry within the Inquisition, and I could well see warriors on both sides being affected by this through things such as a commanding Inquisitor's reluctance to call in support from another Ordo's Chamber Militant, or multiple Inquisitors on-site refusing to co-operate and not merging their forces.

Not to mention that Inquisition stuff is merely a job the Sisters sometimes do on the side from their primary role, and that the GKs, whilst more focused and intertwined with its affiliated Ordo, are even smaller in number, limiting potential engagements and cooperations even where the aforementioned rivalry would not interfere. There could still be coincidental encounters, such as when the Sisters in their primary role as the Sword of the Church Militant sent an expedition to a Daemon World to recover holy artifacts and the Grey Knights just happened to almost run into them for very different reasons, but how often would this occur, and how would they interact?

In short, it's less a direct rivalry or distrust, but rather that both sides lacked in opportunity to get to know each other and develop a healthy relationship. Granted, both forces share a history of service with the Inquisition, but on the other hand they are so different in their beliefs and doctrines that (or so I believe) they would see each other with a minimum of caution and scepticism simply because they didn't have a chance to develop a mutual respect like the Sisters did with individual Chapters of Space Marines.
In closing, I would surmise that the Grey Knights may enjoy a minor boost in approval due to their affiliation with the Inquisition, but that it just may not be quite enough to raise them above AoC status.

[edit] Also, what Psienesis said.

Lynata's explanation makes massive amounts of sense to me. I hereby exalt it.

Some of us wrestled with this relationship in a thread over in the Proposed Rules forum, and while I originally argued "Sisters hate all psykers so they'd hate GK too," other folks convinced me they made sense as Allies of Convenience ( click here to read their very good arguments). Also some stuff in that thread about creating a Puritan Ordo Hereticus sub-list out of C:GK that could be Battle Brothers with the Sisters, to represent the sort-of-Chamber-Militant relationship, plus giving Sisters back their anti-Psyker defenses from Codex:Witchhunters. I'd love folks to comment over there if they have any ideas about, interest in, or irrational hatred for these proposed rules-in-progress.

I always got Order Militant and Chamber Militant mixed up... so, thanks for the clarification Lynata!^^
I agree with Psienesis' take on the bloodtide thing. It would be interesting to have the take on it of someone who isn't snorting warpdust http://www.flashgitz.net/movies/the-trials-of-draigo
There also have been some discussions on the obviousness of the Grey Knights' psychic powers...

Sure why not.

The Grey Knights work together with the inquisition and the SoB used to be the right hand of the Inquisition.
They Grey Knights work together with pretty much everyone at one time or another. There's that story where they help an eldar craftworld reclaim soul stones so I see no reason why they would not work together with another imperial force.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I have 3000pts of GK and about 1250pts of sisters and I've allied them a few times. None of my opponents have objected to this as of yet.

 Lynata wrote:

Troike wrote:But aren't the GK not described as an Ordo Militant either in the 6e rulebook? Meanwhile the SoB are still described as working closely with the Ordo Hereticus, which certainly sounds like a Chamber Militant relationship.

Small nerdy nitpick:

Ordo = a faction or cell within the Inquisition, like the Ordo Malleus
Order Militant = a convent of the Sisters of Battle
Chamber (Militant) = an Inquisitorial Ordo's household troops

Just because I saw those terms getting mixed up a bit in the previous posts.

Troike wrote:sure, a team-up is feasible. Both holy warriors that fight Chaos. Though in terms of the Allies Matrix, I think they're fine as allies of convinience.

Hmmm. I tend to agree. Unlike pretre, I still think the Sisters are the Ordo Hereticus' Chamber Militant, and will continue to do so until the material explicitly retcons this connection. However, just because both forces have a history of service for the Inquisition doesn't necessarily mean they'd be BFF. There's a lot of internecine rivalry within the Inquisition, and I could well see warriors on both sides being affected by this through things such as a commanding Inquisitor's reluctance to call in support from another Ordo's Chamber Militant, or multiple Inquisitors on-site refusing to co-operate and not merging their forces.

Not to mention that Inquisition stuff is merely a job the Sisters sometimes do on the side from their primary role, and that the GKs, whilst more focused and intertwined with its affiliated Ordo, are even smaller in number, limiting potential engagements and cooperations even where the aforementioned rivalry would not interfere. There could still be coincidental encounters, such as when the Sisters in their primary role as the Sword of the Church Militant sent an expedition to a Daemon World to recover holy artifacts and the Grey Knights just happened to almost run into them for very different reasons, but how often would this occur, and how would they interact?

In short, it's less a direct rivalry or distrust, but rather that both sides lacked in opportunity to get to know each other and develop a healthy relationship. Granted, both forces share a history of service with the Inquisition, but on the other hand they are so different in their beliefs and doctrines that (or so I believe) they would see each other with a minimum of caution and scepticism simply because they didn't have a chance to develop a mutual respect like the Sisters did with individual Chapters of Space Marines.
In closing, I would surmise that the Grey Knights may enjoy a minor boost in approval due to their affiliation with the Inquisition, but that it just may not be quite enough to raise them above AoC status.

[edit] Also, what Psienesis said.

Very nice logic, yet leaves out the fact that the SoB are the Ecclesiarchy's military wing post-AoA. Sure, the Inquisition requesitions IG and SM, I see it the same way: the Ecclesiarchy loans the Ordo Hereticus some sisters at their request. Regarding GK, it is possible, like SoB deal with rogue psykers, who then summon daemons. GK show up and help the SoB, after which a GK asks a sister out with a rose.

"Oh, that's... that's a beautiful rose."
"Thanks. Um, Sister Raven, could I -- um -- could we go get dinner together after the mass executions? Barbecue, maybe?"
"Oh, gosh, Brother Beastboy, that's nice, but, y'know, Sisters, we're not allowed to..."
"Oh, no, no, don't worry, my genetic enhancements, extensive drug treatments, and numerous implants render me physically incapable of threatening your virginity."
"Not allowed to date."
"Oh."
"Yeah, that was all I was about to say."
"Oh."
"Yep."
"Too much information, then?"
"Little bit."

"But maybe we could instead have a tactical meeting where we discuss how best to smite the heretics"
"You say the sweetest things."

 Atropamin wrote:
"But maybe we could instead have a tactical meeting where we discuss how best to smite the heretics"
"You say the sweetest things."

This.

Yes, Exalted. Also I Exalted the post about Exalting it.

Aww, and I was just thinking about adding a few romantic scenes near a screaming/soothingly crackling campfire/heap of heretics...

It could be a very romantic tactical planning session.

"Don't look at me like that! How was I to know that the brother-captain left some roses, candles and a dinner on the tactics table?"

Heretics. All of you.

What is the Ordo Hereticus' Chamber Militant? I know the Ordo Xenos has the Deathwatch and the Ordo Malleus has the Grey Knights, but I always thought the Ordo Hereticus' had the Sisters. This thread seems say it both is and isn't?

Cold wrote:What is the Ordo Hereticus' Chamber Militant? I know the Ordo Xenos has the Deathwatch and the Ordo Malleus has the Grey Knights, but I always thought the Ordo Hereticus' had the Sisters.

Going by the last information that explained the Chambers Militant, you are correct.

Some posters started speculating whether or not this is still the case as the 6E rulebook didn't use the term anymore, but I'll stick to it until GW explicitly drops this connection instead of just not explaining it.
It's bad enough so many fans thought the SoB were no longer church troops in 3E. This is just yet another shift in focus, people. Nothing has changed!

The language in the recent SOB "codex" downplays their connection to the Inquisition, but does not come right out and definitively say they aren't the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus (of course, doesn't flat out say they are, either). It says that they "work closely" and, as mentioned earlier in the thread, basically implies the Chamber Militant relationship between the two, and uses the same language to refer to the GK and their relationship with the Ordo Malleus.