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 SisterSydney wrote:
All true, but remember the Imperium is falling apart. As I wrote in my post writing up a Novice squad, the Adepta Sororitas only send their "Little Sisters" into battle as a desperate measure -- but desperate times call for desperate measures, and in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, times are desperate all the time.

I know the Imperium is slowly dying, but I still only see Novices seeing combat if their Schola is under threat. And an Order wouldn't just have to defend a Schola's planet on their own, after all. There'd be a PDF obviously, and since a Schola world is fairly important, IG will probably be on hand to help if the Schola's world is attacked.

So basically, I just don't see the Novices being deployed on a regular basis alongside Battle Sisters. I don't mean to try and ruin anybody's fun, though. By all means, wish for the idea and talk about how they'd work on the tabletop, if you want. The above is jut my take on the matter.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Confused now...So when and where do they do their Novitiate? At Schola? On Terra?

They train as Novices in their Schola, yeah. Once they've completed that, they travel to Terra to get their blessing. The ceremony finishes with a Superior claiming a Novice for her Order and giving the Novice her power armour, thus making the Novice into a Battle Sister.

I am wrong about many things much of the time, as either Clockwork or my wife could tell you. I actually am not sure I'm wrong about this, though. To quote that old bit of Inquisitor background about Sister Anastasia you linked to*:

Raised at the Schola Progenium facility at Antigone's Harbour, Rosetta Anastasia was singled out by the Order Famulous as a potential recruit for the Adepta Sororitas at the age of twelve years.....During her period as a Novice, Anastasia was indoctrinated into the ancient beliefs and traditions of the Sisterhood.....At the age of seventeen, Anastasia stood with five hundred of her fellow Novices and took the Oaths of Adherence in the Ecclesiarchal Palace on Terra. The Ecclesiarch himself blessed the assembled Novices in a ceremony that lasted throughout the night, and culminated at dawn with a superior from each of the Orders Militant stepping forward to lead each of the girls off to don the armour of their new Order for the very first time....

(* Link is http://web.archive.org/web/20071218114030/http://es.games-workshop.com/especialista/inquisitor/bestiario/repentia.html , I'm having trouble to get it to embed for some reason).

That sounds like the Novitiate begins at age 12 or 13, lasts 4-5 years, and concludes around age 17 with initiation as a full Battle Sister of a specific Order. It doesn't make clear whether the Novitiate occurs at Schola or elsewhere. But that's consistent with Novices being "child soldiers," i.e. teenagers below the age at which most modern legal systems would consider them adults. (In real life, the US gets in trouble with the UN for letting people enlist at age 17....).

As for Novices not being a regular part of a Sororitas force, that's probably true. If your army doesn't include them, that means your Order is either always on the offensive or simply so scrupulous about protecting its Little Sisters that it never puts them in harm's way -- and good for them. But I'd like a list that gives the option to represent the desperate and the morally dubious, too, because both those things are central to the setting.

[Edited and almost totally rewritten -- apologies for that -- a small edit got unexpedtedly big]

The US let's people enlist under the age of 18 but has to also not actually put them into combat (yes, there are rules that the army polices itself on for this). But the Imperium is not the US and it's safe to say IG units have kids as young as 15 or so running around.

Once a Sister joins an order properly she is no longer a Novice. That's something you're honestly missing Sydney, you can't have Novices in a Sisters army because they don't have Novices, that's a rank that's left once you leave the Scholera. That's been my point (which I feel is ignored), the lowest level Adepta Sororita in the Militant Order is a "Battle Sister". Non Militant Orders probably list them as something else, but you leave the Novice title once you enter an Order.

As for seeing anyone who has not been fully indoctrinated into an Order, you're more likely to see them fighting along side the PDF than a full order, unless a full order is on hand, in which case their inexperiance would be a detriment and they'd be left to assist the wounded and evacuated rather than fighting.

But for that to happen someone needs to attack Terra or Ophelia VII, and it hasn't happened yet.

SisterSydney wrote:Confused now...So when and where do they do their Novitiate? At Schola? On Terra?

Neither! Or rather, some of them may do it on Terra.

Look at the already provided link about Sister Anastasia, and this one about Ephrael Stern. Yeah, I know, the latter is a Black Library character, but her file was hosted on GW's main homepage, which makes at least this part of her background studio material:

Rosetta Anastasia
Upbringing: Antigone's Harbor Schola Progenium (0-12 years)
Novitiate: unknown (12-17 years)
Final Assignment: Subiaco Diablo (17+)

Ephrael Stern
Upbringing: Antigone's Harbor Schola Progenium (age unspecified)
Novitiate: Terra (age unspecified)
Final Assignment: Ophelia VII (age unspecified)

It is unfortunately not documented where exactly Anastasia had her novitiate, but if we cross-reference her file with that of Ephrael, then being singled out by an emissary of the Orders Famulous means they get transferred away to a different location.
It is also worth noting that the Order of the Holy Seal, by which Ephrael was recruited, is based in the Convent Prioris on Terra, which led me to the assumption that the novitiate - something that every single Sister regardless of later affiliation will share - is organised and conducted by the Orders Famulous. With the Orders' experience in matters of genetic testing (checking the bloodlines of Imperial nobility) and childhood education (Sisters Famulous sometimes serve as governess to a noble's child), they are perhaps best-suited for both the selection process and the initial training and indoctrination of new recruits.

ClockworkZion wrote:Nothing says "Did not do the research" as someone who claims Novices are children. The Scholara starts training people for their future careers at 16, they don't go off to be Sisters until they're 18. Soooo....not children then. If you want child soldiers look at Krieg or some of the other IGs.
So yeah, Novices aren't children either. Sorry but your headcanon is wrong.

Following Rosetta Anastasia's example, Progena can become Novices at the age of 12, and become fully-fledged Battle Sisters at the age of 17. So Novices are kinda young, and in line with the media that SisterSydney referenced.

ClockworkZion wrote:That's something you're honestly missing Sydney, you can't have Novices in a Sisters army because they don't have Novices, that's a rank that's left once you leave the Scholera.

There are no Novices in the Schola. When you're in the Schola Progenium, you are a Progena.
Unless you count those dreadful Sandy Mitchell novels and their contradicting fluff.

And I support the idea of Novices on the battlefield not in the least because I've been proposing it earlier *ahem*
Like it was suggested earlier, it could be a "trial of fire" where they get to use their training under battlefield conditions (and are evaluated based on performance), exactly like the Cadian Whiteshields that already serve as an example of the Imperium sending young teens into warzones.

 Lynata wrote:
There are no Novices in the Schola. When you're in the Schola Progenium, you are a Progena.
Unless you count those dreadful Sandy Mitchell novels and their contradicting fluff.

Oh gosh, I think I may have been. So, Novices are trained by the Famulous, and are only at a Schola beforehand? Okay, perception of the fluff amended. Thanks.

Nope, not buying the "Trial of Fire" stuff there. That just screams "we waste our troops like the IG!" to me.


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The thing is that no matter how you slice it there is nothing in the fluff of the Sisters that even suggests Novices are put into combat. And I like that. They don't waste bodies like the Guard, and once they're ready for combat they're ready (unlike the Marines who need to literally grow into it).

I'd agree that the Sisters would husband (?better word, please?) their human resources much more carefully than the Guard.

My thought was that any "trial by fire" would be under controlled conditions, on missions against very weak targets -- or targets already blown to hell by regular troops -- and with lots of regular Sisters on hand for backup. It'd be less throwing the Novices in at the deep and more "Okay, we've cleared the heretics out of all the buildings but that one. We think there're two of 'em in there with a heavy stubber, maybe some frag grenades. You girls go in and get 'em."

9 times out of 10, it's a cakewalk, maybe there's not even anyone there after all. 1 time out of 10, a Novice dies. Still way better than the attrition rates in Marine training.

But 1 time out of 100, it goes utterly pear-shaped and that is the kind of extreme circumstances that most games replicate. We don't bother playing out, say, a Space Marine operation that goes as planned, when overwhelming force at the critical point annihilates the enemy before they even know what's happening: It'd be dull. A pitched battle against an equally powerful force is the default for all wargames but it's exactly the thing real-life commanders are paid to avoid at all costs.

Or the Novices would taken along on campaigns but kept on the safest duty possible --- they'd be in the baggage train, as it were, like the pages in Henry V .... who all got massacred when French villagers raided the camp while the rest of the English army had thrown every able-boded adult into the line at Agincourt.

Henry V, Act 4, Scene VII:



Even in our history, things can go very, very, very wrong. In the 41st Millennium....

There's also nothing that suggests Novices are not put into combat. That's the nice thing here - it's completely open to interpretation!
Those of us who don't like it can continue to ignore the possibility, and those of us who think it's cool can adopt it into their "headcanon".

And "wasting our troops" ... honestly, we're talking about an organisation that sends their veterans onto the battlefield clad in rags and swinging huge two-handed swords for something like not being able to remember all 99 prayers or something.
It really doesn't take much to spin the fluff this way. The combination of "the purpose of life is to suffer" and "the Emperor watches over us" can easily be interpreted as "if they are pure of heart and mind, they will prevail".

SisterSydney wrote:9 times out of 10, it's a cakewalk, maybe there's not even anyone there after all. 1 time out of 10, a Novice dies. Still way better than the attrition rates in Marine training.

This too.
For my own Minor Order's fluff, before I noticed that Novices are trained not in the Order directly, I had it be a tradition that they help out the Arbites in patrolling a Hive.

Lynata, you should know better than thinking that all Repentia are veterans. They're Sisters who FUBAR and then take the Vow of Repentence as a self-imposed penance.

And while you can shove it in your head canon all you want, the fact that it's a detail that was omitted in the Sister's training and lives tells me that is doesn't happen. I'm looking at what was left out and how it shapes what remains and "commiting our not fully trained troops to live combat" doesn't fit the Sister's mentality to me. They are the best trained humans in the Imperium, why risk losing a bright trainee to a "training accident" where a heretic gets lucky with his autopistol?

I don't see it ever being a part of the main codex and honestly I strongly feel it has no place in any fandex.

I've not said that all Repentia are veterans, but a large amount of them will be. The longer you're in an Order, the more likely it gets that you slip up - either with one big mistake, or because you can't stop committing small ones. Like the lapsing memory for prayers, for example. In theory, it could be trauma or a head injury as many a veteran would have it.

As for the rest, given that we have no facts about what Novices do or don't, I guess this is just another area where we simply have our own ideas. The important thing is that neither your nor mine nor Sydney's suggestion breaks with the studio fluff - even though we may argue about how it may fit to our own, individual interpretations. For example, in Sydney's case, I'm still against all Novices being issued bolters by default. But that doesn't mean I'm "right".

Okay, pulling out what I've studied about convents and such...A novice isn't officially a member of the order. They're in training. In smaller convents and orders that training is done at the convent where they'll be living. They haven't taken vows and can leave at any time. But, in the WH40K universe, that training takes place on either Earth or Ophelia. This is religious as well as specialized training depending on what they're going to do. (Famulous, dialogus, Militant, etc.) Think basic training and then A.I.T, Advanced Individual Training. So, once they take their oaths they are shipped off to wherever they're assigned and at this point they are full fledged Sisters of Battle. They'll be the newbie but they'll be legit.
A novice won't be fighting anything because they'd have to ship each group off of Earth or Ophelia just to find something to do and knowing the warp, that could take a long time. So I don't see that happening. Their first taste of non-training combat will be with their order, fully kitted up like their sisters.
As for using lasguns, sure, in training that would be useful at first, like how V.M.I. uses .22 target rifles. But reeeaaallllyyy soon you'd better move to what their actual gun will be or they'll develop training scars: learning things one way that are different than what they'll actually be using can cause problems when the doo doo hits the fan. But no SOB will ever use a lasgun in anger. (I was a firearms trainer for a while. You don't want to train with a gun you won't actually be using. Trust me on that.)
Once the sister arrives at her convent, she's under the tutelage of an experienced sister. This is how convents in history act and that's how its described in SOB fluff. So, no units of novices, which is a shame because I love the idea. But it simply can't work under the fluff GW has written.
We have to stretch our imaginations and think of a different way to get another troop choice.

 MWHistorian wrote:
We have to stretch our imaginations and think of a different way to get another troop choice.

Not a lot of stretching required, actually. Just bring back Redemptionists/zealots. They'd be a very characterful unit, and would have their own niche on the tabletop.

 Troike wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
We have to stretch our imaginations and think of a different way to get another troop choice.

Not a lot of stretching required, actually. Just bring back Redemptionists/zealots. They'd be a very characterful unit, and would have their own niche on the tabletop.

I fully endorse this idea.

I vote for a large mob made of the "Repentant", that is to say those tried for Heresy and found guilty but are allowed to seek forgiveness through battle. If they live the Emperor has forgiven them and they may then lead a normal life again.

Think of it as a high attrition "scared straight" plan.

Wargear wise I'd figure they'd have Feel No Pain (they're too riled up to notice some wounds) and they grab whatever they can get their hands on to fight in melee. As for ranged weapons I'd like to think they'd basically try stoning the enemy to death (count as a pistol ). The really lucky ones might get a hold of an autopistol or improvise a weapon like a flamer (with Sydney's Improvised Weapons rule) and occasionally they loot bodies on the battlefield. We could even put Priests (1:10?) in to drive the flocks, armed with Nueral whips they use to drive the masses forward.


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Is that grimdark enough?

MWHistorian wrote:But, in the WH40K universe, that training takes place on either Earth or Ophelia. This is religious as well as specialized training depending on what they're going to do. (Famulous, dialogus, Militant, etc.)

A Novice's final assignment is not determined until after they've participated in the ceremony in the Ecclesiarchal Palace - at least this is what the stories about Anastasia and Ephrael suggest. Likewise, Terra and Ophelia may not be the only places where Novices are trained. This is where four Major Orders Famulous are headquartered, but technically they could have subsidiary convents elsewhere just like the Orders Militant do.

I'm not saying this is the case, just that this is an option!

MWHistorian wrote:A novice won't be fighting anything because they'd have to ship each group off of Earth or Ophelia just to find something to do and knowing the warp, that could take a long time. So I don't see that happening.

On the contrary! Terra and Ophelia is where the six Major Orders Militant are headquartered. This is from where they set out to fight their Wars of Faith and other battles! It's the perfect place to "catch a ride" and accompany a couple veterans into a warzone. Much better than some Minor Order's locally limited business. This is where you get to see action with the Big Six!

"The Adepta Sororitas have an extensive Convent on each of these planets which are home to members of all Orders. For most of the time, members of the Sisterhood will not be occupying their Convent but are dispatched across the Imperium in accordance with their various duties. However, the Convent still bustles with new recruits and organisational staff, even when most of its inhabitants are fighting a War of Faith or employed in some other major effort."
- 2E C:SoB, Organisation of the Sisterhood, The Convents Sanctorum and Prioris

MWHistorian wrote:But it simply can't work under the fluff GW has written.

I don't see an obvious contradiction. Did I miss something or are just talking interpretations here?

[edit] Also, +1 on Zealots and Redemptionists. I want the Frateris Militia back! They were fun to use in the one instance I had the opportunity.

Of course, I've written up Frateris Militia too.... comments welcome.

 Lynata wrote:

MWHistorian wrote:But, in the WH40K universe, that training takes place on either Earth or Ophelia. This is religious as well as specialized training depending on what they're going to do. (Famulous, dialogus, Militant, etc.)

A Novice's final assignment is not determined until after they've participated in the ceremony in the Ecclesiarchal Palace - at least this is what the stories about Anastasia and Ephrael suggest. Likewise, Terra and Ophelia may not be the only places where Novices are trained. This is where four Major Orders Famulous are headquartered, but technically they could have subsidiary convents elsewhere just like the Orders Militant do.

I'm not saying this is the case, just that this is an option!

MWHistorian wrote:A novice won't be fighting anything because they'd have to ship each group off of Earth or Ophelia just to find something to do and knowing the warp, that could take a long time. So I don't see that happening.

On the contrary! Terra and Ophelia is where the six Major Orders Militant are headquartered. This is from where they set out to fight their Wars of Faith and other battles! It's the perfect place to "catch a ride" and accompany a couple veterans into a warzone. Much better than some Minor Order's locally limited business. This is where you get to see action with the Big Six!

"The Adepta Sororitas have an extensive Convent on each of these planets which are home to members of all Orders. For most of the time, members of the Sisterhood will not be occupying their Convent but are dispatched across the Imperium in accordance with their various duties. However, the Convent still bustles with new recruits and organisational staff, even when most of its inhabitants are fighting a War of Faith or employed in some other major effort."
- 2E C:SoB, Organisation of the Sisterhood, The Convents Sanctorum and Prioris

MWHistorian wrote:But it simply can't work under the fluff GW has written.

I don't see an obvious contradiction. Did I miss something or are just talking interpretations here?

[edit] Also, +1 on Zealots and Redemptionists. I want the Frateris Militia back! They were fun to use in the one instance I had the opportunity.

I'm saying that given a combination of historical convents and the fluff GW has written, novices don't see combat. as for the 'hitch a ride to battle' that's even worse. That means you're throwing the novices in the furnace and that's not how its done. They'd get slaughtered far too often to make it worthwhile. These aren't imperial guard who recruit by the billions. This is far more specialized. That quote above says "the convent still bustles with new recruits...even when most of the inhabitants are fighting a War of Faith..." That means trainees stay at home. So unless the convent world gets attacked, novices won't be seeing combat. Its not a question of interpretation, its a question of logistics. They simply don't train enough potential sisters to waste them in expendable rabble units.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Wargear wise I'd figure they'd have Feel No Pain (they're too riled up to notice some wounds) and they grab whatever they can get their hands on to fight in melee. As for ranged weapons I'd like to think they'd basically try stoning the enemy to death (count as a pistol ). The really lucky ones might get a hold of an autopistol or improvise a weapon like a flamer (with Sydney's Improvised Weapons rule) and occasionally they loot bodies on the battlefield. We could even put Priests (1:10?) in to drive the flocks, armed with Nueral whips they use to drive the masses forward.

My vision for them is essentially a big tarpit sort of unit. They'd have, as you said, fairly rubbish weapons, but could have high numbers and priest that gives them stubborn to counter that. Their purpose would be to camp objectives, or to hold up dangerous enemies whilst your other units got into position.

I'd also see them recieving a penalty to their leadership if their priest leader died, possibly.

 Troike wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Wargear wise I'd figure they'd have Feel No Pain (they're too riled up to notice some wounds) and they grab whatever they can get their hands on to fight in melee. As for ranged weapons I'd like to think they'd basically try stoning the enemy to death (count as a pistol ). The really lucky ones might get a hold of an autopistol or improvise a weapon like a flamer (with Sydney's Improvised Weapons rule) and occasionally they loot bodies on the battlefield. We could even put Priests (1:10?) in to drive the flocks, armed with Nueral whips they use to drive the masses forward.

My vision for them is essentially a big tarpit sort of unit. They'd have, as you said, fairly rubbish weapons, but could have high numbers and priest that gives them stubborn to counter that. Their purpose would be to camp objectives, or to hold up dangerous enemies whilst your other units got into position.

I'd also see them recieving a penalty to their leadership if their priest leader died, possibly.

Ld 6 but the Priest has Zealot. Problem solved. Also make Priests like Runt Herders for every X models you need a priest.

MWHistorian wrote:I'm saying that given a combination of historical convents and the fluff GW has written, novices don't see combat.

"Historical convents"? The closest thing we have to the Sisters of Battle is a religious knightly order like the Knights Hospitaller, and their novices actually did accompany them into battles, so if you really want to bring RL history into the discussion this would actually seem to be a point in my favour.
As for the fluff GW has written, you still need to point out where you see a clear contradiction. As it stands, you're just trying to force your interpretation over mine. Opinions, however, do not constitute facts.

MWHistorian wrote:as for the 'hitch a ride to battle' that's even worse. That means you're throwing the novices in the furnace and that's not how its done.

"In the furnace"? We're talking about a trial of fire shortly before many of them would do this on a regular basis. And, as SisterSydney suggested, under (comparatively) controlled circumstances.

MWHistorian wrote:That quote above says "the convent still bustles with new recruits...even when most of the inhabitants are fighting a War of Faith..." That means trainees stay at home.

A good example of selective reading.
The quote says you will always find trainees in the convent. It does not say that this means all of them.

In fact, if *I* would apply selective reading here, I would point to how the quote says "new recruits". Where is the rest?

MWHistorian wrote:They simply don't train enough potential sisters to waste them in expendable rabble units.

You don't know that. All we have is the number of active fully-fledged Battle Sisters. And even this number only encompasses the Major Orders.
Remember all those people who are sceptical of the low SoB numbers, always pointing to how many Scholae there must be, and how many potential recruits they could have? If you really want to believe that such live trials would result in horrific losses (an idea I do not subscribe to), maybe this is part of the solution.

They operate very differently than kinghtly orders. Everything I've read has them operating more like traditional convents. Sending them into combat is never controlled. Once bullets or lasers start flying, all bets are off. There's nothing to say that they do that and everything else to say they don't.

BUT.... seeing as how GW doesn't really tell us much, I have to accept that your opinion is just as valid as mine. Just don't mix up facts. Convents =/= knightly orders. They operate very differently.

But the bit about lasguns still holds. They wouldn't ever use lasguns in combat.

MWHistorian wrote:They operate very differently than kinghtly orders. Everything I've read has them operating more like traditional convents.

What exactly did you read? Are you really saying that the Sisters of Battle are closer to a nun monastery? Like, those nuns that do not go into battle at all? Because they're women?

SoB are "Nuns with Guns", not just nuns. The way I see it - and the way their fluff represents them - they are much more crusaders rather than monks who focus on civilian tasks. The latter is what you have the Non-Militant Orders for.

Honestly, their duties regarding Wars of Faith and protecting pilgrim routes is ripped off straight from the Knights Hospitaller/Templar background.

MWHistorian wrote:But the bit about lasguns still holds. They wouldn't ever use lasguns in combat.

That is your opinion.

 Lynata wrote:

MWHistorian wrote:They operate very differently than kinghtly orders. Everything I've read has them operating more like traditional convents.

What exactly did you read? Are you really saying that the Sisters of Battle are closer to a nun monastery? Like, those nuns that do not go into battle at all? Because they're women?

MWHistorian wrote:But the bit about lasguns still holds. They wouldn't ever use lasguns in combat.

That is your opinion.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. They operate very similar to a traditional convent in terms of organization and roles of sisters within the convent. The difference being that they also fight. A monastic knightly order is structurally entirely different. I'm not saying it because 'they're women," but because that's how they work. A knightly order would be more like the Black Templars. Look at the Knights of St. John for a good example of how knightly orders work. Their defense of Malta was epic, btw.

But the part about lasguns isn't opinion, its just how firearms training and military training work. It's like crossing the streams, you just don't do it.

Lasguns =/= Holy Trinity and thus not worthy of the time of a real Adepta Sororita to use.

Seriously, no. Just, no. No novices, no running around with lasguns...just no..

Just ally in Guard instead.


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And that's the last I'm really going to say on it because I just find the idea just too far out there to even give the time of day right now. We'll see this weekend if anything new changes that.

MWHistorian wrote:Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. They operate very similar to a traditional convent in terms of organization and roles of sisters within the convent. The difference being that they also fight. A monastic knightly order is structurally entirely different. I'm not saying it because 'they're women," but because that's how they work.

I can't say I agree with that. The Orders Militant have military duties - it's even part of their name! Their roles and organisation into military units befit these duties, and whereas the "prayer" part surely can be found in a nunnery as well, it is only in the religious knightly orders that you have the combination of prayer + war.

Also ...

MWHistorian wrote:A knightly order would be more like the Black Templars.

"An interesting example of this is the Adepta Sororitas, an order of devotional warrior women. The Adepta is organised along similar lines to the Space Marines. The Sisterhood, as it is generally known, is led by an Abbess and includes many lesser ranks and officers in a similar way to the Adeptus Astartes."
- 1E Rogue Trader rulebook

Old, but still valid. I for one do not know of a nunnery that organises its Sisters into squads.

ClockworkZion wrote:Lasguns =/= Holy Trinity and thus not worthy of the time of a real Adepta Sororita to use.

But that's the point!
Sometimes I feel like my posts aren't read.

If you feel it's not worthy of a discussion, though, fair enough. We all have our opinions regarding stuff like novices, or those bikes that some of you thought would be cool.

I'm not sure why you insist that their traditional Convent organization cancels out their warlike abilities. It doesn't. You have the abbess that controls her convent in an independent way and is usually the only one that has contact with males from the outside. She has sisters of higher rank below her that deal with the daily operations of the convent and they have sisters below them. That describes historical convents and 40k convents equally well. The SOB just have an additional combat mission to do so they lower sisters are also organized into teams and squads like any other military organization.

 Lynata wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:Lasguns =/= Holy Trinity and thus not worthy of the time of a real Adepta Sororita to use.

But that's the point!
Sometimes I feel like my posts aren't read.

If you feel it's not worthy of a discussion, though, fair enough. We all have our opinions regarding stuff like novices, or those bikes that some of you thought would be cool.

Here's the thing, you've taken away the Sister's training, her armor, her bolter and let's be frank her you should probably take the faith related things away because she just isn't a Sister yet.

Now what do we have left?

A flippin Guardsman. Even with a 6++ and an Act of Faith you're still looking at a BS3, low Ld, t-shirt armor wearing Guardsmen under another name.

And I don't want to have any part of it.


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If I wanted Guard, I'd play Guard as an army or ally them in. Not stick them in my codex under some lame pretenses.

I just want new models that would be my dream. We can wish list all we want, but I've been wanting to start a Sisters of Battle army for so long. I just can not stomach the price of the army!

MWHistorian wrote:I'm not sure why you insist that their traditional Convent organization cancels out their warlike abilities. It doesn't. You have the abbess that controls her convent in an independent way and is usually the only one that has contact with males from the outside.

Technically, the Abbess isn't the head of a convent, she's the head of the Sisterhood as a whole. This is where the breach with historical convents starts, for apparently they also do not train their own novices on-location, and neither does a nunnery have squads and squad leaders. Honestly, change the name of the Canoness to Grand Master and you've got a knightly order.
The "nun" image is pretty superficial, and I think you're letting yourself being led astray by it. They are crusaders or templars more than they are nuns, for nuns don't go to war, which is a pretty huge difference, and one that defines the Sisters of Battle.

You are also argueing against studio fluff here, but I suppose you're aware of this.

ClockworkZion wrote:Here's the thing, you've taken away the Sister's training, her armor, her bolter and let's be frank her you should probably take the faith related things away because she just isn't a Sister yet. Now what do we have left?

Not her training.
I have repeatedly mentioned how this trial would occur at the end of the novitiate, possibly as an evaluation for who is fit for active duty in the Orders Militant, and who "doesn't cut it".

I guess I just see the Adepta Sororitas being defined more by character and aesthetics than their gear. Power armour and bolters is something that Space Marines have as well.

ShatteredBlade wrote:I just want new models that would be my dream. We can wish list all we want, but I've been wanting to start a Sisters of Battle army for so long. I just can not stomach the price of the army!

How much do you think new minis would cost?
It's not the metal that is the issue. Look at the 10-man box of metal Valhallan or Mordian Iron Guard infantry, then look at the 10-man box of plastic Tactical Space Marines.

Yep, you guessed it - the latter are more expensive...

And yet the Tallarn are randomly the same price, I could never figure that out.