Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 00:20:23
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
|
The Space Wolves have opened fire on an Ecclesiarchy fleet, fought and ran off three orders of Sororitas who invaded afterwards, have beheaded a Grey Knights Supreme Grandmaster, and have beheaded an Inquisitor Lord. edit- I threw the Blood Angels in there because the Flesh Tearers have literally murdered Sisters of Battle in insane rages.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/08 00:21:52
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 00:23:45
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Preacher of the Emperor
|
BlaxicanX wrote:the Flesh Tearers have literally murdered Sisters of Battle in insane rages.
Nope, they killed allied militia and the Sisters withdrew before the Flesh Tearers could reach them.
That 1d4chan page, the apparent source of this misconception, was wrong about a lot of SoB fluff.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 00:24:27
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 00:28:34
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
|
Negative. There is a short story written by ADB where Sisters get slaughtered by Flesh Tearerers. I've read the story. You need to let go of this hate for 4Chan. lol
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 00:28:58
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 00:41:35
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Preacher of the Emperor
|
BlaxicanX wrote:Negative. There is a short story written by ADB where Sisters get slaughtered by Flesh Tearerers.
Hmm. According to the Lexicanum article on that book, Bowden writes the Sisters killing the Flesh Tearer to avenge their Sisters that the Flesh Tearers killed at Gaius point. But in the studio fluff, they withdraw from Gaius before the Flesh Tearers reach them. If that's the case, I'll go with the studio fluff over the BL stuff, as usual. Oh, there's also the Sisters killed by Brother Jarl, but that seems to take place in a different location. Uh, what? I like 4chan, post on /tg/ all the time. The "sisters snuff" section of that SoB 1d4chan article just used to have a lot of inaccuracies, and was a source of a few misconceptions about SoB fluff.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/08 00:45:56
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 00:50:11
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
|
Troike wrote: BlaxicanX wrote:Negative. There is a short story written by ADB where Sisters get slaughtered by Flesh Tearerers.
Hmm. According to the Lexicanum article on that book, Bowden writes the Sisters killing the Flesh Tearer to avenge their Sisters that the Flesh Tearers killed at Gaius point. But in the studio fluff, they withdraw from Gaius before the Flesh Tearers reach them.
If that's the case, I'll go with the studio fluff over the BL stuff, as usual.
Oh, there's also the Sisters killed by Brother Jarl, but that seems to take place in a different location.
Uh, what? I like 4chan, post on /tg/ all the time. The "sisters snuff" section of that SoB 1d4chan article just used to have a lot of inaccuracies, and was a source of a few misconceptions about SoB fluff.
Your reflex when seeing a statement about Sisters being killed by Flesh Tearers is to hate 4Chan. That's just lulzy.
Anyway, yes. Sisters have been killed by Flesh Tearers before.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 00:50:51
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Sisters of Battle and Imperial Guard have killed each other on numerous occassions too, as have everyone (and I mean EVERYONE vs EVERYONE. ...well, I haven't seen a fluff case of SoB vs SoB yet but I'm sure it's happened in this giant galaxy). The allies chart is (probably) supposed to represent the BEST circumstances. If Imperial Guard can be allies of convenience with the Orks under good circumstances, I'm sure SoB can be allies of convenience with Space Wolves and Blood Angels under good ones, too. Because it's a stupid day when Imperial Guard are able to rely on orks they hired not shooting them, while SoB and Space Wolves that belong to the same organization are literally looking over their back in the middle of a battle against chaos worried that they'll shoot each other.
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/10/08 00:55:21
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 00:52:55
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
Troike wrote:Hmm. According to the Lexicanum article on that book, Bowden writes the Sisters killing the Flesh Tearer to avenge their Sisters that the Flesh Tearers killed at Gaius point. But in the studio fluff, they withdraw from Gaius before the Flesh Tearers reach them.
From what I know, the story takes place at another time and concerns just a few individual Fleshtearers and Sisters. I think it happens before the Gaius Point Massacre.
Still, I don't see why Black Library contents must necessarily seep into core studio fluff and rules. Until such details are reflected in Codex fluff records, they have obviously not been adopted by the Codex writers.
BlaxicanX wrote:Your reflex when seeing a statement about Sisters being killed by Flesh Tearers is to hate 4Chan. That's just lulzy.
What? Troike is a " fa/tg/uy" as well and an editor on 1d4chan. The statement "the old page sucked because it contained misinformation" is not equal to "4chan sucks".
BlaxicanX wrote:Anyway, yes. Sisters have been killed by Flesh Tearers before.
Not in studio fluff they haven't.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 00:54:41
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 01:01:30
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
|
Not in studio fluff?!!! Oh meh gawd!
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 01:02:46
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 01:01:45
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Preacher of the Emperor
|
I dunno, I still see a strong case for them being desperate allies. That past conflict aside, their mindsets are just so different. The Sisters are one of the most disciplined, orthodox forces in the Imperium, while the Space Wolves are notoriously rowdy and maverick. A relationship between the two would certainly be strained. But then, from a tactical viewpoint at least, it is a nice pairing. BlaxicanX wrote:Your reflex when seeing a statement about Sisters being killed by Flesh Tearers is to hate 4Chan. That's just lulzy.
I didn't know about that novel before, so I assumed you were referring to the Gaius point incident, which the 1d4chan article has misinformed people about in the past. And again, 1d4chan and 4chan are not the same thing, and I like both. All I did was criticise a single section in one 1d4chan article, bud.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 01:03:16
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 01:05:20
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Again, desperate allies imply they're constantly looking over their shoulder worried the other guy will shoot them. While this might be the case with SoB and Space Wolves SOMETIMES, does everyone here really think they'd be that way at best for EVERY BATTLE?? If SoB were teamed up with Space Wolves against a horde of chaos marines during one of Abaddon's black crusades, do they really think the SoB and Space Wolves would be distrusting each other so much in that situation?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 01:07:32
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Preacher of the Emperor
|
In the current Allies matrix, no Imperium force is worse than Allies of Convenience with any other, and given the logic of "allies matrix should represent the best plausible case," I don't think you should ever go down to Desperate Allies, not even between Sisters/Ecclesiarchy & Adeptus Mechanicus (which would be fandex-only at this point, not that it makes sense to me GW never wrote them up, just think of an entire army of grimdark freakish body-horror skull-face cyborgs). Hmm. Like Lynata, I'm very torn on generic Space Marines. Ultramarines and their Codex Astartes-compliant descendants & allies should not get Battle Brothers status with the Sororitas though, nor should any of the chapters given Chapter Tactics in the 6th edition Codex, so I think that generic Marines should stay Allies of Convenience and Emperor-worshipping variants should need some kind of special exception.... [EDIT: To clarify, being Codex-compliant means, by definition, that you don't worship the Emperor as God. So while you could build your custom chapter out of C:SM 6th and say they worship the Emperor, you'd have a lot of trouble convincing the Sisters they weren't faking it, as opposed to the Black Templars having a hardcore track record that the Sisters know and trust].
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 01:27:04
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 01:14:33
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
|
Troike wrote: I didn't know about that novel before, so I assumed you were referring to the Gaius point incident, which the 1d4chan article has misinformed people about in the past. And again, 1d4chan and 4chan are not the same thing, and I like both. All I did was criticise a single section in one 1d4chan article, bud. Okay. I'm just wondering why you hate 4Chan so much. TiamatRoar wrote:Again, desperate allies imply they're constantly looking over their shoulder worried the other guy will shoot them. While this might be the case with SoB and Space Wolves SOMETIMES, does everyone here really think they'd be that way at best for EVERY BATTLE?? If SoB were teamed up with Space Wolves against a horde of chaos marines during one of Abaddon's black crusades, do they really think the SoB and Space Wolves would be distrusting each other so much in that situation? So in your mind two factions that have literally been at war with one another and have literally blown up entire armies belonging to one another isn't a cause for the two factions hating each other's guts? The SoB and the Inquisition/Ecclesiarchy literally consider the Space Wolves to basically be heretics.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/08 01:15:59
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 01:15:39
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Preacher of the Emperor
|
TiamatRoar wrote:If SoB were teamed up with Space Wolves against a horde of chaos marines during one of Abaddon's black crusades, do they really think the SoB and Space Wolves would be distrusting each other so much in that situation?
Probably not in that situation, but it could easily be applied for a less dramatic situation, like fighting against IG (for whatever reason) or even just a minor Chaos incursion. I just think it's better to think of the allies matrix in a more neutral fashion. Not "how well do they team up in really dire circumstances" but "how well do they team up in general". And in general, there's going to be considerable friction between them. I'm not necessarily opposed to them being allies of convinience, mind you. I wouldn't protest against it or anything, it's certainly not the most unbelievable thing on the chart. I can just see a strong case for them being desperate allies.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 01:16:17
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 01:37:27
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
BlaxicanX wrote:Not in studio fluff?!!! Oh meh gawd!
Some people think that 40k the tabletop is better off that way. No need to get childish about a difference in personal preferences.
SisterSydney wrote:In the current Allies matrix, no Imperium force is worse than Allies of Convenience with any other [...]
Ironically, SoB and Black Templars are Desperate Allies in the matrix as originally published. Whatever the writer thought, the precedent was there.
I think the "expect them to turn on you" would describe the situation quite well. The Space Wolves might be forgiving of the Sisters' attitude, but the Sororitas themselves just strike me as way too zealous and narrowminded to just forget about the past, especially given that Sisters are more or less the least tolerant of all Imperial armies you could field.
The Space Wolves opened fire on the Ecclesiarchy before. Why should the Ecclesiarchy believe it wouldn't happen again? Even the Mechanicus didn't got that far. With the AdMech, all you have is "just" a difference of religious interpretation and rejection of the Ecclesiarchy's authority. With the Space Wolves, you have all that plus genetic mutation and violent clashes. It's pretty much the worst combination of Imperial "allies" you could field, and I feel it would be odd or even wrong to set such an extreme relationship to the same level (Allies of Convenience) as how the Sisters would think about the Blood or the Dark Angels.
Ultimately, I'd like such details as an army's history and general theme to reflect in the Allies matrix, and the Space Wolves' "eff you" attitude and their flagrant disregard of Imperial authorities or even the most basic rules of cooperation should have consequences.
It would probably be easier if the Allies rules would have more levels than just 4, but the way things are, someone who is less easy to work with than a Battle Brother must be an Ally of Convenience, and someone who is even less easy to work with must be a Desperate Ally. No other way around it - unless we think the Space Wolves are no worse than the Blood Angels or the Dark Angels.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 01:39:24
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Troike wrote:TiamatRoar wrote:If SoB were teamed up with Space Wolves against a horde of chaos marines during one of Abaddon's black crusades, do they really think the SoB and Space Wolves would be distrusting each other so much in that situation?
Probably not in that situation, but it could easily be applied for a less dramatic situation, like fighting against IG (for whatever reason) or even just a minor Chaos incursion. I just think it's better to think of the allies matrix in a more neutral fashion. Not "how well do they team up in really dire circumstances" but "how well do they team up in general". And in general, there's going to be considerable friction between them.
I'm not necessarily opposed to them being allies of convinience, mind you. I wouldn't protest against it or anything, it's certainly not the most unbelievable thing on the chart. I can just see a strong case for them being desperate allies.
If the allies matrix is to be thought of as a "neutral" fashion, then how the heck are Orks and untrustworthy fickle Eldar allies of convenience with the guard? And then there's the blatant Marine Tau battle brothers case. The fact that, as pointed out, SoB are allies of convenience with all other Imperial Organizations at worse also implies "best case" scenario as well.
if you wish to have an allies matrix that goes against this spirit, then that's fine. The official allies matrix currently there however is obviously NOT this case. The only major exceptions to the "best situation" idea are the SoB and normal Space marines, and Chaos Marines with the Imperial Guard (which honestly makes no sense even under "neutral" conditions. Since when do Chaos Marines ally with guard, renegade or otherwise, under neutral cases?)
|
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/08 01:40:36
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 01:50:14
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Preacher of the Emperor
|
TiamatRoar wrote:If the allies matrix is to be thought of as a "neutral" fashion, then how the heck are Orks and Eldar allies of convenience with the guard?
I did note that it wasn't perfect. I guess GW would explain that as those armies being willing to put aside their differences? If only temporarily.
TiamatRoar wrote:The fact that, as pointed out, SoB are allies of convenience with all other Imperial Organizations at worse also implies "best case" scenario as well.
Not necessarily, just a normal case scenario. The Sisters would be willing to fight alongside loyal Marines and IG, and have done so in the fluff. They'd be uneasy with the Marines, as noted, but not outright wary of them.
TiamatRoar wrote:and Chaos Marines with the Imperial Guard (which honestly makes no sense even under "neutral" conditions. Since when do Chaos Marines ally with guard, renegade or otherwise, under neutral cases?)
I'd view these as something of an exception, though, since they're likely there to represent a force of traitor guard. And why wouldn't traitor Marines ally with traitor guard? They both hate the Imperium, both worship Chaos, it seems like a natural alliance.
|
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 01:53:14
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
|
Lynata wrote:BlaxicanX wrote:Not in studio fluff?!!! Oh meh gawd!
Some people think that 40k the tabletop is better off that way. No need to get childish about a difference in personal preferences. You're very defensive. Why?
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/10/08 01:54:50
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 01:54:53
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Disguised Speculo
|
Oh look, another allies chart that gaks on Orks.
When you think about it, Orks should be AoC with pretty much everyone.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 02:05:53
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Troike wrote:TiamatRoar wrote:If the allies matrix is to be thought of as a "neutral" fashion, then how the heck are Orks and Eldar allies of convenience with the guard?
I did note that it wasn't perfect. I guess GW would explain that as those armies being willing to put aside their differences? If only temporarily.
IE, best conditions.
Not necessarily, just a normal case scenario. The Sisters would be willing to fight alongside loyal Marines and IG, and have done so in the fluff. They'd be uneasy with the Marines, as noted, but not outright wary of them.
Precisely. Hence why Desperate Allies ALL the time with any of them would be wrong.
Troike wrote:
I'd view these as something of an exception, though, since they're likely there to represent a force of traitor guard. And why wouldn't traitor Marines ally with traitor guard? They both hate the Imperium, both worship Chaos, it seems like a natural alliance.
I meant it makes no sense for chaos marines to ally with guard under neutral cases instead of battle brother cases. If Chaos Marines ally with guardsmen, you can bet your ass that they'd do so in a way where those guardsmen are absolutely ENSLAVED by those Chaos Marines, and thus battle brothers. The idea that Chaos Marines would ever ally with traitor guard under an "ally of convenience" alliance is crazy, IMHO. Chaos Marines would forcefully take charge, not treat those guards as distant partners. They'd ally with them squad them, use them as expendable meat shields. blast them with their own psychic powers, whatever, and the renegade guard wouldn't refuse it if they valued their lives. ....Battle Brothers status for all the wrong reasons, but still battle brothers status. At least, a lot more often than Allies of Convenience.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/08 02:07:52
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 02:11:16
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Preacher of the Emperor
|
Dakkamite wrote:Oh look, another allies chart that gaks on Orks.
When you think about it, Orks should be AoC with pretty much everyone.
Ork mercenaries for everyone! Orkz is for fightin' an' winnin' an' we don' care who we fights fer 's long az dere's fightin'! 'Ere we go, 'ere we go!
(There's even an example in the book of Ork mercs working with both Imperial Guard and Chaos, and you can't imagine Eldar of either variety wouldn't stoop to manipulating the Greenskins to do their dirty work...).
Lynata wrote:
SisterSydney wrote:In the current Allies matrix, no Imperium force is worse than Allies of Convenience with any other [...]
Ironically, SoB and Black Templars are Desperate Allies in the matrix as originally published. Whatever the writer thought, the precedent was there..
D'oh. I've so thoroughly overwritten that in my headcanon & homeruling that I forgot it was still the rules as written.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 02:11:52
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Dakkamite wrote:Oh look, another allies chart that gaks on Orks.
When you think about it, Orks should be AoC with pretty much everyone.
Yea, as crazy and rambunctious as Orks are, they've so far actually ended up being kinda reliable as mercenaries, at least to those that knew how to negotiate, deal with, and pay them correctly (Blood Axes only, of course). Orks are single-minded enough that anyone suave enough to know how to deal with and negotiate with them can actually rely on them as mercenaries (Blood Axe clan, obvously. Again, assuming you know how to work with them correctly. For one thing, it's probably a good idea to arrange the deal so it's in the Ork's best interests to not think about betraying you until AFTER you've paid them AFTER the battle). Although not exactly spotlighted, there's more than enough fluff examples of this.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SisterSydney wrote:
Lynata wrote:
SisterSydney wrote:In the current Allies matrix, no Imperium force is worse than Allies of Convenience with any other [...]
Ironically, SoB and Black Templars are Desperate Allies in the matrix as originally published. Whatever the writer thought, the precedent was there..
D'oh. I've so thoroughly overwritten that in my headcanon & homeruling that I forgot it was still the rules as written.
That one especially makes no sense, although hopefully it's been retconned/fixed with the 6th Edition Codex anyways (because the fluff in 6th Ed Space Marines sure as hell sounds like it). If it has been fixed (debatable, I know), then you can hypothetically chalk this one up to a momentary brain fart where GW eventually said "Doh, we goofed. Forget about that one. They're allies of convenience now."
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/10/08 02:23:12
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 02:25:42
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Preacher of the Emperor
|
TiamatRoar wrote:.... as crazy and rambunctious as Orks are, they've so far actually ended up being kinda reliable as mercenaries, at least to those that knew how to negotiate, deal with, and pay them correctly (Blood Axes only, of course).
I kind of envision the Orks' attitude to mercenary work, much like their attitude towards everything else, as kind of "genocidal interplanetary pub crawl":
ORK MERC: You wants us to shoot dem pansies?
IG GENERAL: Well, ah, yes, good fellow, they rather do seem to be raiding our planet, can't have that, you know, Imperial territory, what what?
ORK MERC: We loves fightin' pansies!
IG GENERAL: Oh, well that's awfully white of you to....
ORK MERC: They squish so good! Taste da rainbow!
IG GENERAL: Matter of fact, old chap, these ones wear black for some reason, never can sort those wogs out....
ORK MERC: Iz gunna be such a good fight! We loves fightin' pansies!
IG GENERAL: Yes, old boy, you rather did mention that alr...
ORK MERC: We loves you! Youse da bestest boss!
[Enormous and prolonged Ork hug]
IG GENERAL (muffled): Excuse me, my dear fellow, I rather can't breathe.....
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 02:42:22
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
Technically, if you're talking Orks as mercs, you could just as well field IG as mercs, cultists, or pirates...
Depending on your concept, it's a bit of a long shot, but it is why I'm thinking that the Allies rules perhaps should not have a fixed matrix but rather adopt an "anything goes" approach, under the condition that the player needs to come up with a good explanation.
For example ... IG+Tyranids? Duh, Genestealer infiltration!
BlaxicanX wrote:You're very defensive. Why?
I just don't think that excessive use of punctuation marks, attempts to goad other posters, and blatantly ignoring statements such as other posters' repeated opinion of 4chan makes for a healthy atmosphere in a debate, 's all.
In other words, why should I not be defensive when you are aggressive?
SisterSydney wrote:D'oh. I've so thoroughly overwritten that in my headcanon & homeruling that I forgot it was still the rules as written.
Well, depending on your opinion regarding the Black Templars' inclusion into C: SM.
Has this been FAQ'd in the meantime, by the way?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 02:49:29
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Lynata wrote:Technically, if you're talking Orks as mercs, you could just as well field IG as mercs, cultists, or pirates...
Depending on your concept, it's a bit of a long shot, but it is why I'm thinking that the Allies rules perhaps should not have a fixed matrix but rather adopt an "anything goes" approach, under the condition that the player needs to come up with a good explanation.
Well, the current allies matrix allows for this. In fact, I'm pretty sure various GW sources have mentioned IG regiments that have gone mercenary before. Really, if Space Marines can go merc (for a time, before the Imperium catches up to them), I'm sure IG do too every once in a while. Although even non- IG perhaps get their hands on such things. Heck, many chaos renegade IG are probably basically just mercs, too.
For example ... IG+Tyranids? Duh, Genestealer infiltration!
I think one issue with this is that Tyranids eat gene stealer cults too. I'm not aware of any fluff situation where tyrannids have ever fought alongside anything but pure gene stealers. In fact, it's even mentioend that many gene stealer cultists don't realize they called the tyrannids and aren't very happy to get eaten by them.
...that said, the latest Apocalypse book (which, again, lets you ally with ANYONE. There's a reason why the worst alliance relation is "Come the APOCALYPSE", not "Never") did use gene stealers as a narrative example of why your tyrannids might have a friggin' reaver titan at their disposal.  As that's a GW studio source, well.... (although again, this is apparently rare enough that it only happens in apocalyptic situations, apparently. ...hell, the fact that genestealers got their hands on a friggin' titan probably qualifies as an apocalyptic situation in the first place).
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 02:50:15
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 02:53:11
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Preacher of the Emperor
|
TiamatRoar wrote:. ...hell, the fact that genestealers got their hands on a friggin' titan probably qualifies as an apocalyptic situation in the first place).
I believe you meant to write "an awesome situation."
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 02:55:50
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
TiamatRoar wrote:In fact, I'm pretty sure various GW sources have mentioned IG regiments that have gone mercenary before.
Absolutely - I'm just unsure how such an army list would deal with Commissars and Confessors etc; you'd basically have to rewrite their fluff a bit. But that's why I think it could be done.
TiamatRoar wrote:I think one issue with this is that Tyranids eat gene stealer cults too. I'm not aware of any fluff situation where tyrannids have ever fought alongside anything but pure gene stealers. In fact, it's even mentioend that many gene stealer cultists don't realize they called the tyrannids and aren't very happy to get eaten by them. "[...] To this end, leaders of the cult direct their purestrain brood-kin to impregnate influential figures within the local authorities and planetary defence forces. Those implanted subsequently lose all free will, lying, murdering and blackmailing to further their power, the better to tear down organisations from within when their true masters descend from the stars. When the cult has grown to significant size, the psychic beacon that emanates from the cult's Patriarch ensures that a hive fleet will finally descend upon the doomed world. As the cult comes into range of the Hive Queen's psychic control, it becomes utterly subservient to the Tyranid invasion, and the underground cult will explode in bloody and violent revolution. This uprising is sometimes contained by the ruling forces, but usually by the time the Tyranid fleet arrives, the victim world's defences are rife with confusion and insurrection. The destruction of the cult is of no consequence to the Hive Mind, but this devastating preliminary attack can cripple the world's defences even before the first mycetic spore enters the atmosphere."
- WD #266
In short, they do eat them, but if there's any cultists left they would be under influence of the Hivemind, and happily assist the invading forces. Suitable for a battle scenario!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 03:09:53
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
|
Lynata wrote: ]I just don't think that excessive use of punctuation marks, attempts to goad other posters, and blatantly ignoring statements such as other posters' repeated opinion of 4chan makes for a healthy atmosphere in a debate, 's all.
You seem to be overreacting. I don't see how being ambivalent about your bias for studio fluff counts as goading. Fact of the matter is that there is a precedent is for Flesh Tearers attacking Sororitas.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 03:12:57
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 03:10:57
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
Then we'll have to agree to disagree at this point, sir.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 03:35:09
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Flesh Tearers aren't even the same chapter as Blood Angels, anyways. That's like having the SoB be desperate allies with Codex: Space Marines simply because the Sons of Malice butchered the sisters sent to reign them in when they went renegate (...or hell, having the sisters be desperate allies with space marines and imperial guard just because sometimes space marines and IG go renegade in general. Might as well have Chaos Marines be desperate allies with Chaos Daemons because sometimes daemons eat or butcher Chaos Space Marines, and sometimes Chaos Marines enslave daemons against their will and stuff them into machines).
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 03:36:02
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 03:35:32
Subject: Warhammer 40,000 Lore friendly Allies Chart
|
 |
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
|
Lynata wrote:Then we'll have to agree to disagree at this point, sir. We'll have to disagree on there being a fluff precedent for Flesh Tearers killing Adepta Sororitas?
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/10/08 03:39:22
|
|
 |
 |
|