Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

We're both wrong:

A unit with the Act of Faith special rule can attempt to use its Act of Faith immediately before it acts during a phase;

So it doesn't have to be beginning of the phase, but it's before you can do anything with the unit such as declare a target. Declaring a target is step 1 of the shooting sequence, i.e. after you've nominated a unit to do the shooting.

 pretre wrote:

Spoiler:

ShaneTB wrote:
Shame the Repressor kit has been out of stock for ages...

I feel like I repost this every couple pages or so, but here we go:

In my army, I have:
Rhinos - Normal rhino kit painted SOB
Immolators - Immolator kit painted SOB using Immo Turrets
Repressors - Immolator kit painted SOB using Immo Kit Cupola with SB/HF on it, Leman Russ Dozer Blade and Penitent Engine Driver magnetized to front

Basically, my immos and Repressors are the same vehicles magnetized for swapping.

You can see an Immo and 3 Repressors in this pic:




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a close-up from before I swapped the dozers to be more sizeable.

I know those models. You did some battle reports from a tournament you took them to last year.

I really like the FW Repressor model; maybe my favourite tank. I'll hold off conversions for now but yours have given me some ideas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
From FW:

"Thanks for your email about the Repressor. At the moment the Repressor is still being worked on and we don't have a date for when it will come back into stock. As soon as we do we will announce it in our newsflash, please keep an eye on this for more information! "

I shall wait a little longer. The mass Repressor idea will be witnessed.

Mavnas wrote:
We're both wrong:

A unit with the Act of Faith special rule can attempt to use its Act of Faith immediately before it acts during a phase;

So it doesn't have to be beginning of the phase, but it's before you can do anything with the unit such as declare a target. Declaring a target is step 1 of the shooting sequence, i.e. after you've nominated a unit to do the shooting.

Bah! Fair enough though.

 pretre wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
We're both wrong:

A unit with the Act of Faith special rule can attempt to use its Act of Faith immediately before it acts during a phase;

So it doesn't have to be beginning of the phase, but it's before you can do anything with the unit such as declare a target. Declaring a target is step 1 of the shooting sequence, i.e. after you've nominated a unit to do the shooting.

Bah! Fair enough though.

I see enough ambiguity in "immediately before it acts" =P

Movement = immediately before it moves
Shooting = immediately before it shoots (rolls To Hit with the first weapon)
Assault = immediately before it rolls 2D6 to charge

Buuuuut that's nitpicking... i agree it shall have to be before it is selected to shoot.

It's good for me, for some reason I thought it had to be at the beginning of the phase like IG orders.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This means I get to see how the rest of shooting goes before deciding.

The rules about when you roll Acts are... annoying. By a strict interpretation of rules as written, a Sororitas Command Squad can never benefit from its Endless Crusade (Fleet, Crusader, Move Through Cover) because it's an Assault Phase act and you must roll AOF "before blows are struck," which implies after you've already made your charge move... though this is also arguably an insane piece of nitpickery.

“A unit with the Act of Faith special rule can attempt to use its Act of Faith immediately before it acts during a phase; i.e. immediately before the unit moves in the Movement phase, shoots (or runs) in the Shooting phase, or before any blows are stuck (either by friend or foe) in the Assault phase. To do so the unit must take a Leadership test.”

Excerpt From: Workshop, Games. “Codex: Adepta Sororitas (eBook Edition).” Games Workshop Ltd, 2014-06-24. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewBook?id=724807644

I think the clarification muddies a rule that's pretty clear. I'm pretty sure charging itself is an act.

Well, the start of the Assault Phase before you declare charges is still "before any blows are struck in the Assault Phase". It doesn't specifically say it happens at the start of the Fight Sub-phase either (like War Hymns for example).

Yeah, I'm kinda sorry I brought that up.... There's probably a discussion in YMDC already; I was just trying to note that GW rules-writing is full of bloody holes and we hates them, yes my precious.

Yeah... poor rules writing is one of the things that is most likely to cause me to stop playing 40K.

Not being sure how to interpret situations if I play with new people sucks.

Mavnas wrote:
Yeah... poor rules writing is one of the things that is most likely to cause me to stop playing 40K.

Not being sure how to interpret situations if I play with new people sucks.

40k is a HUGE game with literally dozens of different caveats to the core rule book. GW and their rule writing team have their plates full trying to keep everything lined up and non-contradictory and because of that it should come as no surprise that many rules (especially lesser-encountered rules such as AoF since AS isn't a highly represented army in the grand scheme of things...) are left up to the gamers to figure out. I think GW covers their arses though when they make statements about the "spirit of the game" being to create a fun game with their opponent the priority and overriding guidance above all else and it is this fact that should be expressed to newcomers to the game.
Like many other fans of this hobby/game I can put up with a wonky rule set because I can be flexible when it comes to rule interpretation. Of course GW's goal should be an air-tight rule set but with so many variables present in the game I can understand why some rules slip through the cracks.

 OutlawBandit wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
Yeah... poor rules writing is one of the things that is most likely to cause me to stop playing 40K.

Not being sure how to interpret situations if I play with new people sucks.

40k is a HUGE game with literally dozens of different caveats to the core rule book. GW and their rule writing team have their plates full trying to keep everything lined up and non-contradictory and because of that it should come as no surprise that many rules (especially lesser-encountered rules such as AoF since AS isn't a highly represented army in the grand scheme of things...) are left up to the gamers to figure out. I think GW covers their arses though when they make statements about the "spirit of the game" being to create a fun game with their opponent the priority and overriding guidance above all else and it is this fact that should be expressed to newcomers to the game.
Like many other fans of this hobby/game I can put up with a wonky rule set because I can be flexible when it comes to rule interpretation. Of course GW's goal should be an air-tight rule set but with so many variables present in the game I can understand why some rules slip through the cracks.

While I agree with you that making an air-tight rule-set in a game as expansive as 40K is a huge undertaking and I don't expect them to get everything right every time without hiccups. For that reason I am able to forgive much of it but with a small caveat: That GW would use and maintain a proper FAQ and errata section on their website. I don't understand why GW can't dedicate 10 minutes of someone's time to clarifying a rule on an errata of FAQ page and hitting the update button. One example that jumps to mind is using blood tithe points as khorne daemonkin to bring a bloodthirster onto the field, can he charge the next round or does he do nothing, change flight mode the next round then able to charge after 2 rounds? At the very least someone at GW HQ should be able to make a quick FAQ to let the player base know what the intent of the rule was so we knew the official stance on how to play it and wouldn't have to ask our opponent how to play a rule or roll off on what interpretation of the rule we use for the match. There's enough randomness in this game already, I don't need a wayward rule from my codex to add to it every game. I understand what you mean about their "spirit of the game" statement but I feel that's more of a cop-out than anything else, there is no reason they can't add the quick job of FAQ and errata to someone's daily chores at the office, not to mention that "spirit of the game" IMO should apply to all games, tabletop or otherwise, were all here to have fun and enjoy each others company, not argue over rules interpretations.

I don't play tournaments but I can clearly see how no FAQ or errata for official rulings can be a nightmare for tournament players and organizers alike and I can understand more frustration from the tournament scene about this. Unfortunately rules interpretations are only half the problem, the other half is the different power levels between codexes and certain OP or undercosted units. Those, while frustrating as well, are much more forgivable since balance sits on quite the knifes edge and isn't an exact science, this is where spirit of the game kicks in because if I bring a fluffy CSM list I would hope that my opponent would either build down his tournament tau list to be more fair or that I would build mine up to a more competitive level (a tough thing to do for my chaos forces given my model selection atm).

Now as a disclaimer I'd like to say I love this game and I'm super happy with my investment in it. I have a wonderful group of people I play with and they make this game so much fun for everyone despite any problems with the rules or codex power levels. At the end of the day a poor group of people to play with would still suck the fun out of the game whether the rules were perfect or not.

I'll get off the now. Sorry for the distraction from tactics talk.

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
I'll get off the now. Sorry for the distraction from tactics talk.

Yeah, let's take this somewhere else guys...

I played a couple games last night with a sisters + BA drop pod list found here along with my bike canoness special character from a few pages back.

First game was against pure BA with two full tac squads in rhinos, a fast vindicator, stormraven, 5 jpdc with fist and sword, and 10 foot dc with sword, fist, a bunch of bolters, a chaplain, and a "dc" captain special character with rage, fnp, and ew, all in a LR crusader. The mission was maelstrom with diagonal deployment and 3 obj cards. It was modified for the campaign that every objective marker was a malfunctioning teleported that on a d6 roll of 1 at the end of every turn would teleport nearby units to a random objective, but that never came up in the first game.

He had first turn, deployed his LR on the line with the vindi next to it looking through a building window and the 5 DC covering their rears. One rhino per flank. He had an objective in his back field in a building bear the dc, one in the left corner I think, and one in a building in the middle. I had one on a hill in my back corner, one in a building on the left near the line, and I think one in the exact center of the field. I deployed exorcists next to the hill in the corner, bikes on the line as far as they could get from the vindi, and immolators in the center on the line.

First turn, I dont know what cards he got but he moved theulr and vindi up to the building near the middle with the dc still covering them, leaving the back objective open.rhinos moved up the flanks, no shooting.

My cards were claim the left building objective and my rear objective, plus d3 for three objectives. I brought in two melta dominion pods who landed on target, one beside the vindi and one in front of the LR. The marine pod came down between the dc and back objective, close enough to claim, and the disembarked into terrain. Bikes moved up near left building objective, one exorcist moved onto the hill to claim the rear objective, and I tried to move the other over to get a better shot on the right marine flank but it immobilized itself on a single tombstone. Presumably a saint was buried there. shooting had the vindi stunned and down two hp. Marines took out two DC. The LR had two glances and a pen that exploded it for first blood, taking out maybe a single dc. I didn't have range on the big dc blob with the bike guns, so I moved them back to make assault unlikely since the blob could have conceivably moved around the 5 melta sisters. At the end of the round, I had four objectives claimed including my two on cards, plus First blood and a 3 on the d3 making it 6 to between 0 and 2.

Turn 2, stormraven did not come in. Marine squad on left disembarked into terrain and rhino moved up and around to block off the potential bike charge. His 5-man dc shot, charged, and wiped out my marine combat squad. Right marines moved towards the sisters that meltad the vindi and took them down to 2-3. The left tacs and dc blob wiped out the left melta doms in shooting. Minimal objectives, if any.

In objectives, I drew the middle building one near the vindi, the left building near the bikes again, and the backfield one my marine pod was on. Good news. My two remaining pods both came in, so I put the meltas within range of the vindi and the right tac marines, and the hf rets behind the big dc blob. Bikes moved towards the dc blob with the trailing end on the objective. One immolator moved up to claim middle objective and have LOS around the building on the vindi. The other moved towards the left tac rhino, aiming across the bikes. Shooting saw the immolator explode the vindi, which I believe took the damaged melta team from 3 to 2. I think the left immo also exploded the left tac rhino, which hit the bikes but didn't get past the canoness. Bike shooting did surprisingly little, and took out maybe 2-3 DC, but one exorcist and the heavy flamers, even failing the rending AoF, took the squad down to one regular dc, the captain, and the chaplain. The second exorcist and two melta squads on the right took the right tac squad down to four. I tried to charge the remaining 3 dc from the blob but failed.

Turn 3, his stormraven came in and ended up shaking my left immo with the multimelta and then unloading both hurricane bolters and the assault cannon into my canoness to no effec. Left tac squad shot into them as well and I believe took out one biker. The 3 dc charged my flamer rets and list the fist and bare guy to overwatch but the sword guy swept them. Right tacs assaulted the bigger melta squad and I think killed them all, but were down to 4 guys at the end. I think the captain's squad moved back towards cover and didn't do much. At this point, he wasn't anywhere near my 9 points with most of his forces gone, so he conceded.

The drop pods were super useful in getting the dominions where they needed to be to inflict maximum carnage, which let me corral his most dangerous units inside his deployment zone and pick them apart. I'm really liking the bike canoness too for her tankiness, but that's not super helpful for the tactica. The bikes in general did bring some reliable, mobile volume of fire that supplemented the sisters well though, like the plasma tac squad. It all worked pretty well together.

I'll write up the second battle against tau when I get a chance.

Very nice! Thanks a lot for the BR.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Turn 3 win. lol

The tau battle ended similarly, with a turn 3 concession. Not nearly as many objective points, but the pods let me really apply the pressure, take out the big guns, and get my bike squad up field to smash face.

Yeah, SOB alpha strike is reaaaaallly nasty. Pods just make it ridiculous.

Coming back to this part:

“A unit with the Act of Faith special rule can attempt to use its Act of Faith immediately before it acts during a phase; i.e. immediately before the unit moves in the Movement phase, shoots (or runs) in the Shooting phase, or before any blows are stuck (either by friend or foe) in the Assault phase. To do so the unit must take a Leadership test.”

I've always played it so that my acts of faith were only ever usable on my own player turn.

However if I break down the above rule, it specifies that it must be used before it acts during a phase, not mentionning that the phase as to be on your own player turn.

It then goes into giving a few examples.

During your oponent's assault phase, you have a chance to get a unit to act by overwatching, so both criterias are filled.

Am I missing something or does this mean we can effectively use acts of faith during overwatch?
How about failing a leaderships test at the end of your oponent's shooting faith.

Can you use BSS's act of faith to be fearless before they act and get either pinned or run away?

The Seraphim AoF specifically says 'your' turn, I recall that. Not sure on the rest.

Edit: Anyone in the UK have some P'Engines they want rid of?

Canoness - explicitly either player's assault phase
SCS - Your assault only
Celestians - Your assault only
Repentia - explicitly either player's assault phase
BSS - Your shooting or either assault phase
Dominion - Vague. Could be used in either Shooting phase, but is useless in your opponent's shooting phase.
Retributor - Vague. Could be used in either Shooting phase, but is useless in your opponent's shooting phase.
Seraphim - Vague. Could be used in either Shooting phase, but is useless in your opponent's shooting phase.
Celestine - explicitly only start of your turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voldrak wrote:
Am I missing something or does this mean we can effectively use acts of faith during overwatch?
How about failing a leaderships test at the end of your oponent's shooting faith.

Can you use BSS's act of faith to be fearless before they act and get either pinned or run away?

No shooting acts of faith work in the assault phase, including Seraphim.

BSS don't have the fearless act anymore.

 pretre wrote:
Yeah, SOB alpha strike is reaaaaallly nasty. Pods just make it ridiculous.

And that's why when I read about unbound, my first reaction was to suggest a 40 meltas in pods list (Only 1400 points).

Hokay. Tau game. It was a very casual tau list but the player was pretty experiences.

He deployed first and had two hammerheads with submunitions squeezed into the back corner with the outsides by edges, rears to a small open area, and insides against a ruin. Two fire warrior squads of 8 and 9, one in front of the hammerheads trying to bubble wrap and one up near his line in a ruin on an objective. A squad of 4 tetras on his left flank, two squads of 3 xv9 suits on his line, one squad all with the d3 hits str6 ap2 on the left and the other squad with one quad burst cannon and two with the upgraded pulse rifles on the right. His commander campaign character was behind the right xv9 squad, durable with a cyclic ion blaster, two missile pods, onager gauntlet, and a squad of three missile crisis running with him.

He had me go first, so he could shoot at all my drop units. I deployed all my bikes and vehicles behind a LoS blocking building on my line with the exorcists able to sneak up and fire around the sides.

I managed to find two gaps in the bubble wrap of the hammerheads just large enough for a pod and far enough away from the edges that I didn't worry TOO much. The first melta pod came down on target by the left hammerhead and the sister disembarked 5" into cover on the side facing. They passed their AoF and ended up stunning and destroying the railgun. The next pod tries to land on the right and scatters 11" directly off of the table and back into reserves. I place the third melta pod in the same spot and land on target, disembarking into a narrow strip of open terrain in the front facing and exploding the hammerhead, losing a melta sister in the process. Mission accomplished. The left exorcist scooted up and destroyed a terra, the second I believe took a wound off one of the xv9s. Immolators went flat out towards the fire warrior objective and bikes turbo boosted to behind the middle building. Drop pods killed a fire warrior or two from the bubble wrap squad.

He shuffled around a bit and wiped both melta squads between fire warriors and commander squad, who ended up assaulting the right melta unit and trying to challenge for an objective point. The commander whiffed but the crisis suits flattened the one remaining sister superior. Both xv9 squads unloaded on the bike squad and ended up taking the canoness down to one wound and she lost a grav gun and combi grav sarge to LOS due to my poor placement of them.

My turn saw the marine squad coming down next to the commander, and they unloaded on him for two wounds. I forgot to fire the drop pods. The immolators went flat out towards the fw objective again, forming a small armored column. The left exorcist whiffed on the tetras, who junked, and I believe the right took a wound off of one of the missile crisis suits. The bikes moved up intending to assault the closer xv9 squad but their guns ended up wiping it out handily. At the end of my turn, the only objective teleport activated and sent both his commander squad and one of my drop pods over to the fire warrior objective. He disembarked his squad over to behind the remaining xv9 squad. I disembark the pod directly in front of my armored column.

His next turn, he whiffed against the marines with thr bubble wrap fire warriors and I believe one bolter bike from the xv9s, who moved to cover the commander better. The cover from the pod ended up saving my front immolator but it was shaken by the objective fire warriors.

My next turn, the heavy flamer pod came down and scattered to the opposite side of the objective fire warriors than I'd placed it on, but still in range for burninating. when I declared their fire on the fws, my opponent removed the squad. Drop pods take the bubble wrap squad down to 4. Immolators fire on tetras but jinks save them. Exorcists and marines fire on the commander squad and end up taking it down to one missile crisis and the commander with 2 wounds left. Bikes fire on the remaining xv9s and then charge, wiping them out and placing them very close to the commander who really had nowhere else to run. At this point, my opponent conceded.

I learned an important lesson about keeping the ablative wounds right next to my character, and otherwise had a pretty succesful game.

Can ic get the act of faith bonus of joined unit?

I'm thinking about to use saint celestine and 4 Hf retri in the fortification.

celestine's bs is great

Yes, ICs do, but remember the unit can't use the AoF at all if there's a non-SoB, non-Ministorum Priest in the unit.

jim300 wrote:
Can ic get the act of faith bonus of joined unit?

I'm thinking about to use saint celestine and 4 Hf retri in the fortification.

celestine's bs is great

Which fort?

Just finished up my league this week. The girls went 3-3 which I am pleased with. I spent yesterday gluing a ton of backpacks, jump packs and guns that had broken off during battle in the last 6 weeks lol.

I am desperate to add new stuff to my army but there isn't anything sister left for me to buy. I am thinking about running the flesh tearer formation that gives us a ton of drop pods. However, I noticed that the formation gives the option of taking up to 3 heavy support choices. I have always admired the Baal predator (where is Sister Sydney he gets it damnit!) and am thinking of getting a Baal Pred or two and painting it up as a sisters vehicle with a few decorations from the immolator kit to "holy it up" For an HQ I want to take a techmarine and use a normal IG Tech Priest to model it. I am then thinking of using the plastic space marine scouts but swap out their heads with female statuesque heads and use them as sister novaites. Finally, I would round it out with a couple of my homemade drop pods for my domms and rets. I also want to add in 2 repressors for my 2 BSS squads to up their survivability.

So a very rough looking list might be;

Techmarine

Cannoness

Command squad in a drop pod

2 BSS in repressors

min scout squad

2 domms in drop pods

2 rets in drop pods

Exo

2 Baal Preds

My hope would be to hit my enemy hard and fast and overwhelm them. Pods come in as needed either melta or flamers. Baal preds flat out for second turn burnation. Exo provides supporting fire with the scouts. Repressor girls go for objectives and add to the av 13 targets and soak damage. Techmarine sits tight until he is needed to repair things like the exo or repressors (he can swap his servo arm for a jump back for free for mobility)

Looks fine except for the Canoness.

Also, contemplate getting the extra trait Relic.

Yeah the cannoness does suck but without Seraphim Celestine isn't as useful especially in a drop podding list. Jackie boy doesn't offer too much either siting back. The cannoness is cheap and unlocks a command squad that can carry 5 special weapons for some sweet drop podding action. So she is actually is the lesser of evils here in my eyes lol.

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
Yeah the cannoness does suck but without Seraphim Celestine isn't as useful especially in a drop podding list. Jackie boy doesn't offer too much either siting back. The cannoness is cheap and unlocks a command squad that can carry 5 special weapons for some sweet drop podding action. So she is actually is the lesser of evils here in my eyes lol.

I'd rather drop the command squad and take another dominion squad.

Even without a drop pod, Celestine is better.

How would you run Celestine without searphim? I miss the old WD version of her where she could get up every turn if you were lucky.

I find she gets doubled out easily even and with her only coming back only once it seems to be a risky manoeuvre running her solo.