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Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





UK

Fragile wrote:
 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
To all the DE players who claim their poison is great anti-Riptide, how many shots does it average to take one down?

Because the math says it's over 100 splinter shots to kill an uncharged Riptide. Something like 116 shots to be exact. I don't doubt that with good rolls you can obliterate a Riptide with an entire army's worth of DE shooting, but I imagine it would be highly dice dependent, both yours and your opponent's.


Well a little rough mathhammer. First would be poisoned weapons. You need 30 wounds on the Rip to fail 5 times (2+ Sv). Which is 60 hits (4+ poison). At BS4 thats about 90 shots. Although those numbers can vary alot with Twinlinked weapons.

With the Lances its a good deal less. S8 AP2. You need about 8 wounds(5++ Sv). Which is 9ish hits, so 12 shots at BS4.


So basically sacrifice the firepower of your entire or most of your army's AT or anti-infantry for a turn to kill a single model that barely breaks 200 points (working on the assumption that they didn't risk Nova Charge or get it easily through ECPA), in an army that folds like wet tracing paper if the opening salvo is ineffective. Sure, that sounds completely viable.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/01 01:54:36


 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





Oregon, USA

Actually 12 darklight shots is far from all of my antitank for DE. Darklances are the standard vehicle gun, for free, after all, unless you only use venoms. Disintegrators aren't shabby either. They won't wound as much, but fire far more shots..

That would be about half of it, if i really wanted it dead in one turn. I would be more likely to kill tanks with them, and then kill the riptide once that was done. Riptides are resilient, but not all that scary. Other targets would be higher priority.

If you are running venomspam you can get something like 18 Venoms into a 2000 pt list. That's 216 shots. 90 of that still leaves plenty to go around.

I guess it really comes down to whether you think the Riptide is worth killing in the first place. Often it's better just to ignore it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/01 02:19:03


The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre






 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
To all the DE players who claim their poison is great anti-Riptide, how many shots does it average to take one down?

Because the math says it's over 100 splinter shots to kill an uncharged Riptide. Something like 116 shots to be exact. I don't doubt that with good rolls you can obliterate a Riptide with an entire army's worth of DE shooting, but I imagine it would be highly dice dependent, both yours and your opponent's.


I did the math earlier.

BS4 Poison. 90 shots , 135 with FNP. So, most Riptides will be killed by seven and a half Venoms. Ironically, the exact same number of shots it would take to kill five Terminators.

Dark Lances. 14 Dark Lances, 21 with FNP. Never fire them against a Nova Charged Shield, everything else is a better target.

So, it would take 3 Ravagers and 3 Venoms to kill a standard Riptide.

And as good as their shooting is, a Beast Pack with allied Shard Wielding Jetseer is much much better at killing Riptides.


I know the time I took two Riptides at 1k, the DE player with 5 Venoms and 3 Ravagers killed both by Turn 2...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/01 02:30:23


40k is 100% Skill +/- 50% Luck

Zagman's 40k Balance Errata 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




I think one of the best ways for some armies would be an alpha strike, where you go first. Riptide won't be overcharged, 4 sternguard with combi-plasma should do some damage.
I've only had one game against a riptide with my shunt-GK list, and my warp rift attempt failed...but the "roll a 3+ or riptide dies turn 1" seems to be the best I've come up with.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
Made in my
Tea-Kettle of Blood




Adelaide, South Australia

How common is the Feel No Pain upgrade on a Riptide, anyway?

 Ailaros wrote:
You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.

"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" 
   
Made in ca
Trustworthy Shas'vre




It's the only thing that negates the nova charge and costs less than 40 points. I'd say its pretty common.

Tau and Space Wolves since 5th Edition. 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General





Beijing, China

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
To all the DE players who claim their poison is great anti-Riptide, how many shots does it average to take one down?

Because the math says it's over 100 splinter shots to kill an uncharged Riptide. Something like 116 shots to be exact. I don't doubt that with good rolls you can obliterate a Riptide with an entire army's worth of DE shooting, but I imagine it would be highly dice dependent, both yours and your opponent's.


Typically DE have the range and maneuverability to hit the other things in the tau army. By the time they finally get around to killing the riptide, they have take a wound or two and then you are shooting a mix of dark lances AND posion.

If you get to that stage in the game, well they die very quickly. DE can maneuver their entire army to shoot at a tide and everything they bring can hurt it.

Often though, DE get shot off the table before they even get to shoot. DE win big-lose big especilly against tau.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Mr.Omega wrote:
Fragile wrote:
 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
To all the DE players who claim their poison is great anti-Riptide, how many shots does it average to take one down?

Because the math says it's over 100 splinter shots to kill an uncharged Riptide. Something like 116 shots to be exact. I don't doubt that with good rolls you can obliterate a Riptide with an entire army's worth of DE shooting, but I imagine it would be highly dice dependent, both yours and your opponent's.


Well a little rough mathhammer. First would be poisoned weapons. You need 30 wounds on the Rip to fail 5 times (2+ Sv). Which is 60 hits (4+ poison). At BS4 thats about 90 shots. Although those numbers can vary alot with Twinlinked weapons.

With the Lances its a good deal less. S8 AP2. You need about 8 wounds(5++ Sv). Which is 9ish hits, so 12 shots at BS4.


So basically sacrifice the firepower of your entire or most of your army's AT or anti-infantry for a turn to kill a single model that barely breaks 200 points (working on the assumption that they didn't risk Nova Charge or get it easily through ECPA), in an army that folds like wet tracing paper if the opening salvo is ineffective. Sure, that sounds completely viable.


Who said anything about viable? Someone asked about how many shots it would take and I gave a rough answer. IMHO the Riptide is one of the most overrated pieces on the board. It's reputation is the only thing that justifies its costs. It draws fire that it shouldn't. Those 90 shots will wipe almost every scoring Tau model off the board in round 1. Then who cares what the Rip can do
   
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New Jersey

How well or not well would Mephiston handle this thing? I mean he only has to sneak one wound through to instant death it with the force. I am not sure of the riptide's initiative but i am assuming it's lower than meph's. I am also assuming that the riptide doesn't have enough attacks to kill Mephiston in 2-3 turns of fighting.

What about 10 death company storming out of a LR with 2 powerfists? That's 40 regular attacks at str 5, and 8 powerfist attacks.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/02 02:34:21


   
Made in my
Tea-Kettle of Blood




Adelaide, South Australia

Mephiston does have an AP3 sword, so he'll have to get through the Riptide's 2+ armour. Fortunately the Riptide, like most Tau units, is hilariously bad at combat, so Mephiston can just keep wailing on it until he gets a wound through and IDs without worrying about the Riptide doing any damage back unless the Tau player gets exceedingly lucky.

 Ailaros wrote:
You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.

"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" 
   
Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Maryland

Psychic Powers are usually best. Psychic Shriek

 Grey Templar wrote:

The Riptide can't be a giant death robot, its completely lacking a sword or massive chainsaw. All giant death robots have swords or massive chainsaws.
 
   
Made in my
Tea-Kettle of Blood




Adelaide, South Australia

 Feasible wrote:
Psychic Powers are usually best. Psychic Shriek


with a 3++ save? Not really, Puppet Master on the other hand...

 Ailaros wrote:
You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.

"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I have to second the Blood Angels Fear the Darkness power. You can get a bunch of them on Librarians and Furioso Librarians and just scare the Tau army off the board. It works great on Broadside deathstars also since those types of Tau builds don't use an Ethereal.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

E1han03 wrote:
How do you kill a riptide?


With one of these.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot





For those relying on psykers, don't forget Farsight supplement gets Talisman of Arthas Moloch.

Hail the Emperor. 
   
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Trustworthy Shas'vre






 PrinceRaven wrote:
 Feasible wrote:
Psychic Powers are usually best. Psychic Shriek


with a 3++ save? Not really, Puppet Master on the other hand...


If you are facing Riptides with a 3++, they are doing it wrong. The Nova Shield should be used exceedingly sparingly. I don't think I've put a Nova Shield up in my last twelve tournament games.

Plus, not putting the shield up incentivizes opponents to shoot at them.

Don't forget the Talisman for FE.

40k is 100% Skill +/- 50% Luck

Zagman's 40k Balance Errata 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






"What an interesting game. It seems like the only way to win is not to play at all."

I.e. don't fire at the fething Riptide, maybe tarpit it if your army's good at tar pitting, otherwise kill all the other Tau and then sorry about Riptides. And if you're lucky or your opponent is inexperienced, the Riptide may have Nova Charged itself half to death by the time you get to it....

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
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Ohio

 SisterSydney wrote:
"What an interesting game. It seems like the only way to win is not to play at all."

I.e. don't fire at the fething Riptide, maybe tarpit it if your army's good at tar pitting, otherwise kill all the other Tau and then sorry about Riptides. And if you're lucky or your opponent is inexperienced, the Riptide may have Nova Charged itself half to death by the time you get to it....


As an IG player Ive almost realized that you have to ignore them. Take out the opponents fragile troops and other key targets and if there is nothing else to shoot at then I guess you fire at it.

 
   
Made in us
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Cincinnati, Ohio

Force Weapons (Many a Tervigon, even Skarbrand, has been erased by a TDA SS Librarian), Grav, and Plasma. TH/SS terminators may work, given that they might survive the overwatch necessary to get to it.

Plus the Talismen won't help, seeing as you can't DTW on a Force Weapon.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/04 02:20:25


Blood Ravens 2nd Company (C:SM)
 
   
Made in ca
Elite Tyranid Warrior




Edmonton AB

In this article I've seen mention of a 5++ save... where is that coming from?

On topic, I usually run 2 of them and can vouch for the difficulty of catching them in melee. The only time I've had one in melee is when I assaulted some spawn to keep them busy for a round while my fire warriors sat on an objective in the second last round of a game. I've lost 6 total in my games using them

1) Iyanden list wraithguard/serpent spam I got hit with a d-gun and rolled 1
2) massed las cannon fire (trip-las predator, 3 oblits, and a land raider with 2)
3) tried drones with one and ran off the board
4-6) nova charged all my wounds (in a single game I didn't pass once for any of them)

I don't know what you guys mean by not having a high damage output either. They are almost always the main source of most of my damage.

6200
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4800
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All points are base units with no upgrades



 
   
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Good Ol' Texas

The 5++ is from the Riptides big ol shield on its arm.

I personally spread out and just let it shoot. I don't run Terminators or anything super expensive in my lists, so if it kills 4-5 infantry models a turn, oh well.

Lucarikx


 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






A riptide has a stock 5++... that shield thing you usually glue on to the side? or am i missing something.

Iv lost 2 Tides so far in like 4 or so games iv played with it.

IG with mass heavy support teams.
Crons with massive despair mark teks. failed a boat load of wounds on that one :(

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in ca
Elite Tyranid Warrior




Edmonton AB

Thank you... I totally missed that part when I read about them and haven't been using it lol :(

6200
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4800
6th: 6/0/1 - 7th 0/0/0
1820
WIP
1427
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All points are base units with no upgrades



 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tau player 1: Riptides should be ignored, they don't do much damage.
Tau player 2: My Riptides eat your faces, you can't ignore them as they are super.
Tau player 1: It is not hard to kill one, just CC it to death.
Tau player 2: You never catch my Riptides on CC and even if you did, you'd have a hard time killing it.

Amusing, I need more popcorn.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




no tplayed it yet but my plan is an autarch with warp pack , death spinner and the shard of anaris.....couple of decent shooting options to start off then assault it getting me 3 attacks, hitting on a 2+, wounding on a 2+ (with rending and instant death). so hopefully one of them getting through should be enough.....autarch isn't the warlord so it's not losing me a VP either if I lose the combat.

dunno if it'll work everytime but should be a good fight and will work for wriathknights too hopefully
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre






Georidio wrote:
no tplayed it yet but my plan is an autarch with warp pack , death spinner and the shard of anaris.....couple of decent shooting options to start off then assault it getting me 3 attacks, hitting on a 2+, wounding on a 2+ (with rending and instant death). so hopefully one of them getting through should be enough.....autarch isn't the warlord so it's not losing me a VP either if I lose the combat.

dunno if it'll work everytime but should be a good fight and will work for wriathknights too hopefully


The Shard of Anaris only causes ID in challenged, neither the Riptide or the Wraithknight are characters with the exception of O'Vesa.

40k is 100% Skill +/- 50% Luck

Zagman's 40k Balance Errata 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Oh, really.......curses...there goes a good plan then
   
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Grand Rapids Metro

 Zagman wrote:
Georidio wrote:
no tplayed it yet but my plan is an autarch with warp pack , death spinner and the shard of anaris.....couple of decent shooting options to start off then assault it getting me 3 attacks, hitting on a 2+, wounding on a 2+ (with rending and instant death). so hopefully one of them getting through should be enough.....autarch isn't the warlord so it's not losing me a VP either if I lose the combat.

dunno if it'll work everytime but should be a good fight and will work for wriathknights too hopefully


The Shard of Anaris only causes ID in challenged, neither the Riptide or the Wraithknight are characters with the exception of O'Vesa.


Wow, "in a challenge" I never read that before. Glad my Solitaire went the route of the laser lance.

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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Just as a quick thought though if I charge a riptide/knight can I not issue a challenge? Obv it can be declined but then the cc just nulls itself. As I read the challenge rules it doesn't say it can only be issued to characters. I am happy to be corrected though if I'm reading that wrong.
   
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Olympia, WA

Cant challenge non-characters.

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