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After I have seen that they use their forms only 35 times and that they have only some few machines they work on with two teams each... Yes, it could take longer.
Seems as though they're letting random backers and fans post 'official' updates on their website now. It reveals nothing at all, other than a poorly painted picture of the 'wandering blacksmith' dwarf hero we first saw (what feels like) at least a year ago.
Today we've got a more substantial update, attempting to explain some of the changes between what was originally claimed in the crowdfunding, and what we will be receiving.
Hello Everyone
Today we will talk about one of the prickly issues that have caused the most confusion and trouble: The changes that have occurred in the project with respect to the crowdfunding.
But before we start we need to explain a few things.
When this project was started, and I’m talking about its concept state, one of the things that was very clear was that GZ wanted this game to be a new standard in quality, not only finish, but sculpted miniatures and scenery elements as well. They had to bring the games to the next level.
With this in mind the project was founded, but when Gamezone began working seriously to try to do things they had not done before, they realized that there were some concepts and ideas that did not work well, and in other words they paid for the rookie mistakes. Unforeseen problems arose, so they had to make decisions and change some of the concepts that had worked previously, always bearing in mind that the end result would always benefit the buyer, that is, us. That is why, with some delay, we will try to explain the changes made so far and the official reasons why they have been done.
CHANGE OF SCENERY EQUIPMENT
The first pieces that were built were precisely scenery pieces, as there are so many. To begin with everything it went pretty well, but soon GZ realized that some of the pieces were too flat and were getting stuck to the molds more than expected. Resin is a very aggressive material on the molds, which are made of a type of silicone, and degrade them quickly with use. That said, the pieces were to flat, such as door frames, landslides and others like it, were sticking to the molds in such a way that while removing them they would tire out the material of the mold, which left them useless. Another reason was that some parts were too slender, and because of properties of the resin, which is tough but inflexible, these pieces were susceptible to breakage, so this lead to a material change within the production of certain pieces.
OPEN AND CLOSED DOORS
With the doors the decision was something that came much later, once the material was changed to plastic. In this case the original design was the door frame, in which, A clip system was used to provide movement to the door. After much trial and error in design and a series of consultations with exterior designers, they realized that the Clip system in the plastic would eventually wear out and the door would end up not working as all.
So, in the box there will be what will be a series of closed doors and a series of open doors.
MINIATURES WITH METAL ELEMENTS.
As already mentioned resin is a hard but brittle material, so that the elements that are too lean do not pour well and are at high risk of easily breaking. To remove this possibility it was decided to make certain pieces in metal, a material that holds much better. It is preferable to the element bending and breaking.
The last news I’ve had in this regard is that, once the game comes out, GZ will be selling these pieces that they have changed in two versions, the resin and metal, so whoever might want to buy the pieces in resin can do so at a much reduced price. Some may ask, why have these pieces of resin not been directly put into the game box? The answer is, it was thought that users who want (and not everyone will) the resin version could purchase them knowing that they have more risk of breakage. While on the other hand it ensures by using metal for such delicate pieces that breakage will not occur.
Uncleaned miniature of the sorceress, the white on the arm is a white bluetac putty.
Personally, after seeing and working with both versions, I prefer the metal version, mainly because I had a mishap and broke my weapon, which would not have happened if it had been metal.
CHANGE COLOR OF MINIATURE
Another change for which some of you have cried out for is the color change for the extra heroes, about 8 heroes that will come in the basic box. In this case the change was made, basically because of a production issues. To be honest, GZ has to accelerate the proses to deliver the game as soon as possible, and making grey minis is faster than colouring them. But this is not the only reason, tinting miniatures is done by adding another element to the resign. The resin needs an extra product which is called a hardener, and it needs a very specific dosage, i.e. X parts resin must be added to X parts hardener, if the dosage is not done properly the miniature is, or remains soft, too fragile, so it is something which must be done with great care. To put color into this mixture they must add Z parts of dye, which makes the dosages different. And what’s the problem then? Well straight up it’s the dye, if you follow the dosage amounts that the resign company says to use the final color is too pale as the image below shows clearly.
The figure on the left was made with the exact dosage the manufacturer recommended and the figure on the right a much higher dosage created good color. Both were discarded for various reasons. To get a good color GZ needed as much as 5 times more than what the manufacturer says to use. The problem is not the dye in itself, so I am told, that is relatively inexpensive and the cost can be assumed without any problems, but a failure in the dosing causes the materials to behave differently that what is expected. For this reason GZ has had to classify some runs as defective simply because the color is not right or something strange happened (flaccid spears, sticks that break easily on touch, etc).
PRISONER
The changes in the prisoner seem to have generated the lest conflict, perhaps because it was one of the first things in the list that was not working well. The original idea was a prisoner who could be freed and used later, but at first what may seem like a great idea, is not so in reality.
The change in this case is quite logical if you think about it. The position of a person with their arms tied up does not look anything like a person whose arms are lowered, especially as far as clothes are concerned. When the designer were not convinced at all by what they saw it was ruled out.
Eventually it added a more miniatures to the game, that is, what was once a prisoner who could be released, is a chained prisoner and another miniature showing its release.
Well that’s it so far, I don’t think I have anything else to add at this moment. I hope this has served as a response to many of the doubts that have arisen.
I'm a little confused, does this mean none of the miniatures will be coloured? I don't see how the ratio of resin/dye/hardener can be an issue for the additional heroes, but not the core game elements. We've seen plenty of perfectly good red barbarian, huntress, wizard, female dwarf models. And frankly, I don't see any issue with the paler green goblin shown in the photograph anyway.
The prisoner and scenery changes are a non-issue. The door changes make sense, although I am interested to know what the proportion of open to closed doors will be in both the game and the 'additional doors' add-on (as I paid for one).
I can imagine a lot of people being annoyed at the fact that GZ will be selling resin replacement pieces for the metal components that they will now be using though. Personally I'm not too fussed, as I will eventually be painting everything (prioritising the part-metal models), but I can understand why charging extra for something they originally said would be part of the game will cause annoyance.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/05 12:21:05
Everything has gone quiet again, but FyD have just uploaded a new HQ video. It doesn't show anything new at all, but it demonstrates how straightforward it is to clean up and assemble the miniatures. It may put you at ease if you're one of those people that isn't a wargamer and was concerned about building the pieces and working with resin and metal (gpires).
Gorechild wrote: It may put you at ease if you're one of those people that isn't a wargamer and was concerned about building the pieces and working with resin and metal (gpires).
I'm not sure if I even care anymore.
I was very disapointed that they blew the christmas deadline two years in row, so I stopped checking the news on this.
If they ever ship anything to me I'll open the box and take a look inside to see if I still want to keep it.
It's been over two years since I handed them 110€ + 12€ shipping and so far I have nothing to show for it.
In fact if anybody wanted to give me the 122€ back I would happily sell them my pledge, like some backers were doing in the spanish foruns last year.
Only thing of note is the descriptions of all of the spells, there is no practical explanation of their in game effect though, just the general idea of what each ability might do.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/08 00:23:02
After my last post here, I went ahead and put my pledge up for sale on the spanish forums.
(I had chosen a spanish version of HQ25 to prevent possible translation errors)
Sold it today, for the exact same price that I had spent in the crowdfunding two years ago.
I warned the buyer about the delays and the lack of info from gamezone, caveat emptor and all that, but he still wanted to buy it.
So I won't be following the news on this anymore.
But if you ever need help to translate some spanish text or video, drop me a PM and I will try to help out if I can.
I sincerely wish that you guys end up getting a great game, or at the very least some great minis when they eventually ship.
Holy cow; this is an epic boondoggle. How can people still support this? Obviously GZ wants to hang on to the money, but in two years they couldn't come up with this? Really? Descent didn't need this long nor crowd funding. And why wouldn't MB just squish it anyway?
Sad to hear that you are no longer going to be bringing updates gpires, but a big thanks for the updates you did post so far, they were really appreciated.
jmurph - Unfortunately this just seems like it will come in its own time, when its ready. To be honest I'm doing my best to forget about it (check this forum or the Spanish HQ25 one every month or so). In answer to MB squishing it, I believe it's to do with the copyright lapsing in Europe (hence Gamezone being a Spanish company picking it up). There are pages and pages of discussion about it earlier in the thread I believe.
It's also possible that Hasbro is waiting until product is released before proceeding. That's what they did with Hex and Cryptozoic, which resulted in a settlement (not surprising).
More importantly... Momovement??? I guess that English speaker is working overtime!
I got very jaded with this about October last year when it became obvious the 2015 deadline wasn't going to be met.
I was supposed to review some minis, I never got round to it and don't feel especially bad about that because the priorities are all backwards. Dungeon Saga delivered and I focused on that.
Those who would settle for just the pieces and make their own game will find me in full agreement.
When I think about the product I still have hopes to see it, but I dont think about it much, and have moved on.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Whilst its good to see something new and I like the style and fact that there will be special rules for each hero, the way in which it is written, or the translation is poor. Although it does say this is a WIP in the watermark, so hopefully it hasn't been properly translated yet.
Onslaught is a really interesting mechanic, but its poorly worded. the choice to use 'his' and 'him' referring to the little plastic man rather than 'you' referring to the player seems really odd. I'm assuming it also meant to say that you occupy the square the enemy previously occupied, rather than the one you've also moved the enemy into.
Seriously, if this is their 'professional' translation for game rules it's really not good enough. So much so that I'd happily proof read the cards myself before they went to the printers, just to make sure I eventually got a good quality product
If I've waited more than two years for 'momovement', I'll be pissed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/29 13:25:37
