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Firing crap guns into the air a quality fliers is a lot llike this:



I wouldn't bank on that for defending my key targets from airstrikes. Bonus points if you recognize the image.

Baghdad 2003 or 1991? Also gotta remember that the Iraqis badly shot up an Apache attack helicopter unit that was flying over the Karbala Gap in 2003, using the pure "pray and spray" method. 40K fliers operate much more like helicopters than fighter jets, even the fliers with the ludicrously named "supersonic"rule -- which realistically would take them across the table before you could blink.

The Iraqis brought down a few aircraft between the two wars.

If you have something that might hurt the flyer but won't hurt anything else, no harm in throwing a few shots skywards. I've brought down Night Scythes with Pulse Rifles before.

As GW seems to be in the habit of throwing "whatever knights" into various armies that are both XBAWKS HUEG and become dominating features in said armies, I believe that sooner or later, we will have a knight-knight formed out of whatever knights voltronning together into the newest must buy unit.

 Kain wrote:
As GW seems to be in the habit of throwing "whatever knights" into various armies that are both XBAWKS HUEG and become dominating features in said armies, I believe that sooner or later, we will have a knight-knight formed out of whatever knights voltronning together into the newest must buy unit.

DON'T GIVE THEM IDEAS:
Anyway here is my personal strategy since I have become more focussed on smaller games due to time constraints:

Step one draw fire away from the main force with big guns.
Step two bring the Infantry with heavy hitting stuff around back the titan.
Step 3 Titan is now in a position where he must choose who to brave the attack against.

Haven't tested it yet but I honestly don't know what else I will do.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:

 Kain wrote:
As GW seems to be in the habit of throwing "whatever knights" into various armies that are both XBAWKS HUEG and become dominating features in said armies, I believe that sooner or later, we will have a knight-knight formed out of whatever knights voltronning together into the newest must buy unit.

DON'T GIVE THEM IDEAS:
Anyway here is my personal strategy since I have become more focussed on smaller games due to time constraints:

Step one draw fire away from the main force with big guns.
Step two bring the Infantry with heavy hitting stuff around back the titan.
Step 3 Titan is now in a position where he must choose who to brave the attack against.

Haven't tested it yet but I honestly don't know what else I will do.

We only need two more units to make a proper voltron.

Ahahahahahahahaaa!!!

I've been thinking on allying in some Grey Knights to "escort" my Imperial Knight primary, using Interceptors to lead, strikes to trail, and Warp Quake to deny podding melta. Add in a couple of TDA OM Inqs with Psycannons and Prescience, and the PAGK can give some decent AA, or their Knightly charge can be even more killy.

Just a thought.

SJ

On the model of "Taudar," we can call this build "Knight Knight."

Seriously, though, how does warp quake work?

I think knights will be a lot of fun, I just read the codex last knight and nothing really seems broken. The d-weapon and stomps are not really that bad. We have a lot of 1/6 really good things in the game, and nothing stopping you from LOSing.

Also they are not cheap and per point dont offer a lot of firepower. It will be interesting to see if they are allowed in tournaments because I think that would really help switch up the meta. While not being too much. The non-deathstar lists I think will have a much easier time with them.

But anyway I am thinking 1-2 with a bubble wrap of IG to protect from melta/charging FMC while they advance before they charge out would be interesting.

 SisterSydney wrote:
On the model of "Taudar," we can call this build "Knight Knight."

Seriously, though, how does warp quake work?

Warp Quake us a psychic power that causing any enemy unit that deep strikes within 12" of the unit to automatically mishap. Both Grey Knight Strike Squads and Grey Knight Interceptor Squads have Warp Quake as unit abilities, as well as the Combat Squad special rule. The tactic is to Combat Squad the Interceptors and Strikers, and position the smaller 5man units to cover the Knights' vulnerable facings by creating a 25" x 35" "No DS Zone" where ever each squad is placed. With a few Inquisitors added in to provide Skulls, you can effectively deny your side of the table from your opponent, protecting your Knights from being taken out in one turn due to scouting/deep striking Tank Hunters.

SJ

Well, do you really need four flyers? I guess not. I'd bring some ground support for your Knights, say Coteaz with some henchmen in psybacks.

Yes, infantry is good. Need infantry.

To jeffersonian000: Thanks, got it. Neat power. Presumably originally envisioned as stopping daemons from warping in behind you, but you could fluff it as interfering with normal troops' deep strike direction-finding as well.

SisterSydney wrote:On the model of "Taudar," we can call this build "Knight Knight."

Seriously, though, how does warp quake work?

Or you could call it Grey Knights...oh.


For IK allies there isn't really much in the way of list planning necessary. They are decent long range fire support and will likely not be killed if they stick to that though honestly they are a bit too expensive to just stay back and shoot (though in some lists they can provide great counter charge abilities). They are much more tactical and interesting when they move forward. There are several key things you need to think about when playing an IK.

-Ranged damage wise the IK is a wierd duck. The melta weapon is good but most of the most threatening vehicle these days (SH, serpent, flyer, venom) cannot be hit (flyer), don't care about a single explodes result (serpent and SH), or don't care about a single dead vehicle for a 370 pts unit's shooting. The battle cannon is pretty decent at stripping HP and against troops but it allows cover saves and is a blast weapon again. This means the BC is actually not that dangerous of a weapon against most infantry as they will be spaced out and in cover against most players. Still it is a nice weapon and makes one of the hardest counters to the knights (missile sides) need to get a tanking character for it.
-In melee the IK is great against vehicles and MC. Anything that is expensive and has great defensive stats to keep it alive will die easily to an IK. The IK is also pretty good against hordes that cannot simply put the entire unit into b2b due to the S6AP4 stomp attacks and the pile in moves causing the unit to cluster. Against units between these two categories the IK is actually pretty bad. A good example is a SM TAC squad which will loose 2-3 models an assault phase to an IK. This leaves a fair chunk of units which can charge or get charged by an IK and not be overly concerned. Still combined with the shooting the IK is a nice utility unit and has a place in many lists.
-They have move through cover and are a walker. This means that where you deploy the IK will have a huge impact on what it can accomplish. It only gets cover from being 25%+ obscured (not from area terrain) so walking through terrain drops your movement to 3d6 take highest (6" max) instead of your 12" movement. Your base is so big that most boards will feel cluttered to an IK. This creates an interesting dilemma as many of the traditionally good melee units coming out of transport (especially the armour bane independent character ones) can catch up to you fairly easily if you are not careful about terrain and they can kill you very reliably at that point.
-Suicide; IK die in a big blast with a D Str center (5" center). This can be brutal but is highly inconsistent as there is no guarantees that the blast will scatter the way you want or even scatter far enough off the IK to be useful. Still keep it in mind and it can be a powerful tool. The outer rings are great to clear out hordes.

If you combine all of these you get a dynamic unit which will change it's play style depending on the opponent. Against some opponents you will be better served with sitting back and shooting for a couple of turns until your resources can deal with the major threats to the IK who can then move forward. Alternatively it may be worth rushing the IK(s) in and pushing the opponent out of position. Additionally the stubbers are useful for forcing grounding checks. Just keep in mind that the IK are never contesting units and so if you put too many points in them you can quickly loose games just to too many scoring units being on objectives.

For IK primary I think there are several major concerns to be addressed which you will need allies to do so. First though the big difference are; the IK are scoring but still don't contest (so necrons can still drop warrior on an objective and will not only contest you but will still score), the minimum buy in for a IK primary is 1100+ pts. This is a lot of most armies and means that 1000 pts will never see an IK primary army. Even at 1500 pts fitting decent allies will be difficult, and finally the FOC allies are pretty restrictive for some armies as the best stuff tends to cluster in FA or HS.

1) Last minute mobile scoring/contesting. The IK score but do not contest so you need some way of eliminating these fast scoring units and/or bubble wrapping objectives. IK are pretty miserable at either of these. IG artillery, SM TFC, IG vulture, SM bikers, etc. are all pretty great at this. Even Inquisition valks w/ 3x flamer henchmen can be very useful for this as at least they contest and score.

2) AA is essentially non existent in the IK army. The best AA is going to be fortifications, IG allies (the best, no question), and possibly SM allies (red hunters are pretty good and the hunter is pretty awesome).

3) Buffer units. There are a number of units that you seriously don't want an IK getting near but will be highly resilient to the IK shooting. Buffmander missile sides will annihilate any IK within 32" within a single turn, ion shield or no, and firedragons in a serpent are almost guaranteed a kill and can be protect by the serpent giving cover or a proper tanking character jumping over to protect them. DS melta, etc. are all things you don't want to have land next to your IK and with good terrain usage and play will cut through an IK army like butter. This is why I thing some support units on the ground will be absolutely necessary whether strike squads or IG platoons. These can also help with the scoring/contesting issues.

4) IK are utterly countered by revenants and warhounds. If you see one of them you had better reserve the IKs and have brought something else to deal with it.

Also keep in mind that the IK has to declare all shooting targets at the beginning. This means grounding a DP does not allow you to magically switch your battle cannons target. Though you can charge it.

Despite being good against MCs many of the nastiest CC MCs have high Init and can charge you with enough of them to assure a kill. In this situation you either need to block some of the charges with a cheap unit or set up counter charges with your other IKs. However sacrificing the 1 or 2 MC or FMC to kill an IK is a great trade for most armies. The only FMC that comes close to an IK price is Be'Lakor at 350 pts. For example a canny CD player could DS a unit of pink horrors (run to spread out) between 2 IK, charge one with Be'Lakor + DP (charge the IK sides BTW so a hit on the SH explodes doesn't get a D str against you) and be assured of a kill then let you sit there frustrated with only a spread out pink horror unit to charge. Be aware and plan for it.

Hopefully that helps someone. Sorry for the wall of text.

Played another game with a knight, this time Apoc. He ended up getting trapped behind a wall of tanks without really contributing to the battle because his movements were always limited. he Did end up blasting at least two squads of warwalkers away with his battle cannon and picked out two plague marines (how can you make 4/6 feel no pain rolls?!)


After the game I decided to roll him out against a 20 man invisible plague marine squad with 4 sorcerers with meltabombs and chainfists... not the best idea.

OK. I'd like to re-ignite this thread. I've just decided to run a knight in my wolves list. The reason why I think this is worth re-visiting is because they were strong in 6th, but I think they're perhaps stronger in 7th. Although the changes to the vehicle damage chart don't really have any affect, the nerf to smash alone sees combat being a much smaller risk for them, especially when taking on things like daemon Princes. In fact I think winged monstrous creatures in general are a much smaller threat as they now have to land the turn before.

So what do people think? Are they as good as before? Or even tougher to drop now?

They are still good! they die to grav weapons though through shinanegans, but still are great to play and to use. I cheer every time mine lives through the game, and his kill count continues to rise.


(also I forgot I even made this thread!)

I wish Chaos would already get the Gallant, Crusader and warden versions of knights so I can have 5 spawns provide them a melee screen and keel up with 12" move.

Gallant with spawns would be a great match up.

Please check the date of the last post, and don't commit thread necromancy. 'Tis a dark art best left untouched.