Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Sparkadia's amazing Orkish AC-130 Skepta Gunship and the release of Codex:Astra Militarum inspired me to take another shot at my Sororitas Valkyrie variants. This time I've got three: the basic assault carrier, a Vendetta equivalent with TL multi-meltas instead of TL lascannons, and the Virago, a crazy AC-130-like thing with an Exorcist Missile Launcher shooting out the side bay door. For bonus points, I've also included my rewrite of the Avenger Strike Fighter with Sisterhood-appropriate weapons, which means the damn thing replaces its lascannons with Exorcist missile launcher tubes.
Oh, and because all these things are flown and operated by Sisters, not Imperial Navy personnel, they all have BS:4 and Shield of Faith, i.e. a 6++ save.
Plus Celestians and Sororitas Command Squads can take some of these as dedicated transports, finally giving you a reason to field Celestians....though Sisters can't spam Vendetta-equivalents, don't worry.
Madness? Genius? A little of both? You decide! Flame on, friends, or better yet, offer constructive critiques of what's cool and what I should change.

[UPDATE: The final (?) versions of all these units -- and two dozen others -- are now in my Sororitas fandex/expandex]


***

Background: The Ecclesiarchal Fleet and Sororitas Aerospace Wings


***

New Dedicated Transport Options:
The elite of the Adepta Sororitas may soar into battle in variants of the Valkyrie assault carrier.
A Sororitas Command Squad may take a Sororities Valkyrie or Victoria as a dedicated transport.
A Celestian Squad may take a Sororitas Valkyrie as a dedicated transport.


***

FAST ATTACK

*

Sororitas Valkyrie: 150 160 points
By far the Sisterhood's most common flier, the Sororitas Valkyire simply replaces the Navy version's laser weaponry with heavy bolters or melta weapons.


Costing


*

Victoria: 155 180 points
The Victoria is the Sororitas equivalent of the Navy Vendetta. Armed with multi-meltas instead of lascannon, it sacrifices range for close-in firepower and is crewed by Sisters willing to get within "kissing distance" of their targets to incinerate them more effectively.


Costing



***

HEAVY SUPPORT

*

Virago: 175 points
The Virago is the rarest and strangest of the Sisterhood's Valkyrie variants, a hybrid that makes the orthodox Mechanicus wince but which the Sisterhood deemed necessary given their lack of dedicated ground-attack craft like the Navy Vulture.The Virago mounts a massive Exorcist Missile Launcher sideways in the space normally used for passengers or cargo, so the aircraft must circle its target, firing salvos of sanctified missiles out one side and venting backblast out the other.


Costing


*

Sororitas Avenger Strike Fighter: 200 210 points
Background:


Rules:


[i]Costing:


***

EDITED to finetune -- and generally increase -- points costs as per the excellent advice below, to change the Avenger's Exorcist Missile Launcher into a rack of individual Exorcist Missiles, and to replace the Valkyrie's Hellstrikes with single-shot Exorcist missiles, because that's totally a thing now.

Hardware-wise the Sisters of Battle seem to take after the Space Marines far more than the Guard (lots of Rhino-chassis vehicles, no Chimera/Russ-chassis vehicles), I'd think you'd see a variant Stormraven or Storm Talon piloted by Sororitas before you'd see a variant Valkyrie. You wouldn't need to tweak the hull much on the Stormraven, just the armament; start it off with two twin heavy bolters, with variant armaments including a torrent flamer, a Devil Dog super-blast-melta-cannon, plain old multi-meltas, and an Exorcist launcher; it seems much more in-character to me. The Storm Talon variant I'm guessing would go on a hull more like the DA flyers, give it the option of the torrent flamer, the blast melta cannon, or an Avenger mega-bolter and maybe a flamer bomb like the Marauder can take but smaller and call it good.

I'd have actual rules and pricing estimates here but I'm pretty tired, I'll have more for you in the morning.

Three things:

1) You're severely under-valuing the multimelta. They're only normally cheap because getting them into range is hard (especially since most infantry units can't move and fire them at full BS), on a flyer that can move 36" a turn getting into range is easy and you just get AP 1 and an extra die to penetrate armor. Your 3x MM "Vendetta" is better than the standard Vendetta in most situations, and its point cost should reflect that.

2) You don't get credit for removing the defensive heavy stubber. It's a useless weapon that is only present for fluff reasons, the limited firing arc prevents you from using it against ground targets and virtually all flyers are immune to it. Delete it if you have fluff reasons, but it shouldn't provide a -10 point discount.

3) A 6++ on a flyer is worth much more than it would be on any other unit. Most other units can get a better cover save without too much trouble, but flyers have to forfeit most of their shooting next turn.

Peregrine, three convincing points, thanks. Let me think out loud how to recost & get people's advice:

1) A multi-melta on a flier that has Hover can definitely get into melta range much easier. (On a flier that can't hover, with minimum move distances and limited turning, it would be easy to overshoot or not quite get the target in your front arc). On the other hand, the Victoria's need within 24" of the enemy -- or 12" to get the melta effect -- means it forfeits the Vendetta's ability to stand off out of enemy range and lascannon things to death, so there are plenty of situations where the multi-meltas are still worse.
So, while a multi-melta on a regular vehicle costs +10, and a lascannon costs +20, let's say a multi-melta on a flier costs 15. Twin-linked adds 50% (per Ovion's rules of thumb), that makes a TL MM on a ground vehicle 15, a TL lascannon 30, and a TL MM on a flier 23.

Then, for the Sororitas Valkyrie, replacing the heavy bolter with a single multi-melta would be a 5 point upgrade, not free. Replacing the Vendetta's 3 TL lascannons with 3 TL multi-meltas would then reduce the cost by 21 points, not 45, and bump the Victoria's cost up 25 (rounding up) to 180, ten points more than a Vendetta. Sound reasonable?

2) Is the Avenger's defensive heavy stubber worth anything at all? Has anyone ever actually fired it? If I don't hear otherwise, I'll consider removing it a zero-point change.

3) I hadn't thought about a 6++ Shield of Faith save (or forcefield or whatever) being more valuable on a flier because they can't get cover saves (usually). So instead of 10 points, maybe that's worth 15 or even 20?

AnomanderRake wrote:Hardware-wise the Sisters of Battle seem to take after the Space Marines far more than the Guard (lots of Rhino-chassis vehicles, no Chimera/Russ-chassis vehicles), I'd think you'd see a variant Stormraven or Storm Talon piloted by Sororitas before you'd see a variant Valkyrie. You wouldn't need to tweak the hull much on the Stormraven, just the armament; start it off with two twin heavy bolters, with variant armaments including a torrent flamer, a Devil Dog super-blast-melta-cannon, plain old multi-meltas, and an Exorcist launcher; it seems much more in-character to me. The Storm Talon variant I'm guessing would go on a hull more like the DA flyers, give it the option of the torrent flamer, the blast melta cannon, or an Avenger mega-bolter and maybe a flamer bomb like the Marauder can take but smaller and call it good.

Can you put flamer weapons on aircraft? From a realism (ha!) point of view, you'd risk flying into your own fiery backwash..... but maybe there's an official flier out there that does have a flamer weapon?

I agree with you that the Sisters rely on boltguns, power armour, and Rhino-chassis vehicles like the Marines, but I'm always leery of making them "Marines Lite." Tactically, massively armed attack from the sky strike me as a Marine thing. Fluffwise, Stormravens are described as a relatively recent addition to the Marine arsenal, I recall, which makes it unlikely for anyone outside the Astartes to have them -- I would think their availability would be more like Land Raiders than Rhinos.

By contrast, the Imperial Navy has Valkyries all over the place, and they seem much more "transport first, gunship second," which strikes me as more appropriate for the Sisters.

I also just like the Valkyrie more. Besides the name being perfect for a Sisters aircraft, it ... I dunno... feels better? Stormravens imbide too deeply of "everything we have is awesome and super-killy" aspect of the Marines, which is not the Sisters' thing.


Also: Does anyone think the Avenger's combination of bolt cannon and Exorcist is over the top? That's something I was worried about but decided to throw it out there for comment anyway -- it's easier to dial back the crazy upon critique than to add it after.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: Here's a better explanation of why I like the Valkyrie better than the Stormraven: The Valk reminds me of solid but unglamorous aircraft used by the US military personnel I know, Black Hawks and (in days past) Hueys in particular. The Stormraven is a little too awesome, with the kind of superheroic capabilities that fit the Space Marines but make them hard for me to emphasize with. By contrast, I know Army and Marine pilots -- I just finished a graduate course where one of my fellow students was, in fact, a female Black Hawk pilot -- and the Valkyrie feels real to me in a way the Stormraven does not.

The Valkyrie feels more like an atmospheric deployment vehicle that's running with the supply-chain might of the Munitorium behind it, the Stormraven with its one-stage surface-to-orbit capability and broad multirole capabilities feels more like something you'd want in a smaller army with less backfield support like the Sisters of Battle.

I do get where you're coming from on the realism aspects and the "superheroicness" of the Stormraven, but in all honesty the Sisters of Battle and their whole angelic aspect is more where I'd expect to find that sort of thing. Realism with respect to comparing things to real life works best when we're discussing the Guard, with other armies in-universe logic (such as it is, "trust to the madman to lead the way" and all) holds more weight, and considering the Sisters of Battle and their typical combat role the dedicated-assault-transport aspect makes more sense to me than the utility-transport/gunship character I get out of the Valkyrie.

Plausibility-wise with the Stormraven's role as a recent development it may not literally be a Stormraven and may end up tweaked (MrSako's 5e Inquisition rules had a not-quite-Stormraven he called the "Erelim Lander" with lower armour, slightly different guns, and no Dreadnaught mag-clamp thingy (which I do admit is pretty silly)).

Lorewise and playability-wise an armament variant on the Storm Eagle could be another route to go here, it's old enough that the Sororitas could have acquired some over the intervening millennia, and it can carry a full Sisters squad of twenty models, which I suspect would be attractive to them.

As to flamers on planes the only precedents I can cite are the Heldrake (which is sort of closer to what I'm aiming for with regards to the torrent flamer used as a strafing weapon, though it'd likely be restricted to the front arc and put on a mount not unlike the Stormraven's mini-front-turret thing to explain the mobility) and the Marauder's flamer bombs (which are not quite the same thing).

As to the risk of making the Sisters "Marines Lite" they've always been that at some very abstract level, but in practice while they do a lot of things the same way as the Space Marines and a lot of their unit selections look like Space Marine units their highly specialized combat role runs counter to the Space Marines' jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none approach. I suggested the Stormraven as a basis because it's designed to get people up in the enemy's face and support close assault units, which is very much in-character for the Sisters in a way that the Valkyrie's long-ranged suppression fire and generalist transport role optimized for last-turn dropping Troops on objectives really isn't.

All good points to ponder. May not be enough to overcome my headcanon and not entirely rational love for the Valkyrie, though...

I agree that the Sisters basic tactics are closer to SM the guard, so poaching vehicles from them might be more appropriate. But I can see the argument for taking guard stuff, it’s got some solid fluff behind it.

The exorcist launcher strikes me more a a whole weapons package, not something that just gets slung under the wing of a fighter. I could totally see a sister in some sort of observation blister hammering away on the organ, missiles shooting out the side of the flyer in tune with the hymnals. I don’t see it replacing the LCs on the avenger. That’s just my vision/fluff thing. Mechanically, you look pretty well balanced.

In general, you can’t go wrong swapping out MMs for LCs. I would not bat an eye if you did that to the avenger.

For the Virago, I’d like to see the option for Fire Raptor-esqe quad HB mounts. That’s a ground support, shooting out of the side, holy trinity approved weapon system.

Also, in general, not enough burning. I’d not saying you need some crop duster option spraying promeathium across the table in a vector strike fashion, but at least some ignore cover large blast, single use bombs would not be out of place.

Lifting the Fire Raptor wholesale rules-wise wouldn't be far off seeing as its bolter/autocannon-focused arsenal works lorewise with the Sisters of Battle; give it the Shield of Faith at +15pts and trade its missiles for prometheum bombs (I'm having trouble determining what the Marauder's Hellstorm bombs actually do so for now assume they're Tactical Bombs with Ignores Cover) either free or at some small cost. Potential other options: swap the twin mega-bolter for a twin Inferno Cannon (torrent 12" S6/AP4 Heavy 1) for free or a twin Melta Cannon (24" S8/AP1 Heavy 1 Blast Melta) at some small cost.

As to the Storm Eagle variant I'm going to estimate the Storm Eagle's Vengeance Launcher at roughly two Whirlwind missile launchers which on one Rhino chassis would be thirty points less than an Exorcist but without front AV 13, so adding fifteen points to the Storm Eagle is probably reasonable, just permit the twin heavy bolter to be swapped for a twin multi-melta, and allow the purchase of some flamer bombs at the same price as the hellstrike missiles.

Nevelon, I agree on the Exorcist missile launcher (and I love your vision of how it works on the Virago); I'll remove it from the Avenger. The question is what to replace the lascannons with, because multi-meltas are in-your-face weapons that seem unsuited to a fragile, high speed flier. Maybe just a whole bunch of Hellstrike missiles?

And I found what I think are the current rules for the Fire Raptor (which I hadn't heard of before) on the Forge World website. (Am I looking at the right thing?) What a monster! I will ponder its munitions and magnifence a bit before coming to any conclusion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: and this is the Storm Eagle I should be looking at, right?

Yes to both (didn't realize the Storm Eagle was still online, FW usually pulls them after they come out in official rulebooks but that's the current setup as per Aeronautica).

 SisterSydney wrote:
Nevelon, I agree on the Exorcist missile launcher (and I love your vision of how it works on the Virago); I'll remove it from the Avenger. The question is what to replace the lascannons with, because multi-meltas are in-your-face weapons that seem unsuited to a fragile, high speed flier. Maybe just a whole bunch of Hellstrike missiles?

And I found what I think are the current rules for the Fire Raptor (which I hadn't heard of before) on the Forge World website. (Am I looking at the right thing?) What a monster! I will ponder its munitions and magnifence a bit before coming to any conclusion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: and this is the Storm Eagle I should be looking at, right?

My original vision was a sister on an open organ bench on top of the flyer, with goggles, a silk scarf, and an insane grin. Hammering out Toccatas and Fugues, in the key of S8, AP1. But that’s a little bit over the top, even for 40k.

One of the issues with sister-fying things is that if you want to stay true the the theme, you only really have the holy trinity of bolter/flamer/melta to work with. Which puts a big crimp on getting things working.

If you want to task a fighter with anti flyer/tank roles, MM is really the only stock option. The sisters might just be relying on their skill, speed, and faith to get in range for a good shot. You could go with a brace of single shot missiles, maybe a total of 4. If you wanted to go with exorcist-like missile pods, you could sling a pair underneath there. Instead of the d6 shots, one per pod would probably make more sense. You give up the burst of the lucky die, but keep a reliable 2 per turn, with the nice range over MMs. Comparing single exorcist missiles with MMs actually works fairly well. You are trading the melta rule for range. Seems pretty fair to me.

Hmmm. Something short of a full-scale Exorcist Missile Launcher does make sense as a "Sisterly" way to replace lascannons as ranged anti-tank, better tactically than short-ranged multi-meltas but more keeping with the army's themes than 72" range S:8 AP:3 Hellfire missiles. I recall Melissia's awesome Sororitas fandex (one of my inspirations for this homebrewing project, as different as my take on the Sisters is) actually had a portable one-shot-at-a-time Exorcist bazooka kind of thing:

 Melissia wrote:

Portable Exorcist Launchers
Explanation:
A mortar-like construction similar to the organ pipes of the Exorcist Missile Launcher, the Portable Exorcist Launcher-- referred to as Exorcist Pipes (or just Pipes for short) by those that carry them-- these launchers use the same payload as the venerable relics from which they take their name. The method of delivery, however, is different-- the missiles are launched up into the air like a mortar and then home in on the target using an infrared spotting device held by the operator. This often allows the user to attempt to direct the missile towards a weak spot in the armor, which they will readilly exploit. Due to the lack of a sizeable blast radius like a true mortar, however, the "pipe-carriers" refuse to fire without using this holy targeting system in order to conserve the relatively rare Exorcist missiles used as ammunition.
Rules:
* R48", S8 AP1, Heavy 1, Anti-Tank Targeting
* Anti-Tank Targeting: A to-hit roll of 6 allows the penetration roll to be made against side armor instead of frontal armor.

I'm not so sure on making them (wo)man-portable, and would definitely toss the "anti-tank targeting" rule, but something like this as a vehicular weapon (or an artillery piece) could fit nicely.

Also:

 Nevelon wrote:
My original vision was a sister on an open organ bench on top of the flyer, with goggles, a silk scarf, and an insane grin. Hammering out Toccatas and Fugues, in the key of S8, AP1. But that’s a little bit over the top, even for 40k.

Maaaaybe, but I will treasure the image for ever.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Maybe just a whole bunch of Hellstrike missiles?

I wouldn't bother. Hellstrike missiles are broken: because they're ordnance they force everything (including other hellstrike missiles) to snap fire, and they aren't even very effective weapons that would justify that kind of penalty. This almost always makes firing a hellstrike missile worse than just firing your normal guns at full BS and pretending your missiles don't exist.

Aha, I did not know that. I thought Fast vehicles didn't suffer the same penalties for firing multiple weapons on the move -- but then Valykries aren't Fast anymore, are they? Maybe something GW didn't think through when it moved to the Flyer rules...

 SisterSydney wrote:
Aha, I did not know that. I thought Fast vehicles didn't suffer the same penalties for firing multiple weapons on the move -- but then Valykries aren't Fast anymore, are they? Maybe something GW didn't think through when it moved to the Flyer rules...

The specifics of the issue:

Vehicles and Ordnance, page 71, core rulebook: Unlike other units, a vehicle can move and fire with Ordnance weapons. However, a vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn.

Zooming and Shooting, page 80, core rulebook: Zooming Flyers can fire up to four of their weapons using their full Ballistic skill if they have moved at either Combat Speed or Cruising Speed that turn.

Missiles, page 81, core rulebook: A maximum of two missiles can be fired per Shooting phase, and they count towards the number of weapons fired that turn.

So you can fire two Hellstrike missiles but any other weapons you fire that turn will be snapfired. I will note, though, that the Space Marine Stormraven's Stormstrike missiles (SM book only, sorry, GK) are Heavy 1 so there's some precedent for having Heavy bombs/rockets instead of Ordnance bombs/rockets.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Aha, I did not know that. I thought Fast vehicles didn't suffer the same penalties for firing multiple weapons on the move -- but then Valykries aren't Fast anymore, are they? Maybe something GW didn't think through when it moved to the Flyer rules...

It's not about the flyer rules specifically, just the ordnance rule. The problem is that when GW turned hellstrike missiles into ordnance weapons to make them the cheap default weapon for the Valkyrie (which they're fine as, since they're supposed to be weak) FW never bothered to re-evaluate how they work on all the other flyers. And so we keep getting flyers with the option to buy hellstrike missiles even though you will never want to fire them.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
So you can fire two Hellstrike missiles but any other weapons you fire that turn will be snapfired.

Actually, it's even worse. Not only will all of your other weapons be snap shots the two hellstrike missiles will make each other snap shots.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
So you can fire two Hellstrike missiles but any other weapons you fire that turn will be snapfired.

Actually, it's even worse. Not only will all of your other weapons be snap shots the two hellstrike missiles will make each other snap shots.

Argh, GW rules writing....

Post incoming, writing between jobs at work. Will edit this when it's done.

EDIT: Went full R-Tard. Forgot to edit. Post below. Derp.

I edited the points costs in the first post to reflect some of the excellent points you guys have made, and to change the Sororitas Avenger's weapon from a full-on Exorcist Missile Launcher to a bunch of individual Exorcist missiles: 48" S:8 AP:1 Heavy 1, One shot, for 15 points. That's 5 points more than a Hellstrike (per Imperial Armour:Aeronautica), which has better range -- in fact, so much range it'll hardly ever matter on the tabletop -- but worse AP and suffers, as we've discussed, from being Ordnance.

Also:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Hardware-wise the Sisters of Battle seem to take after the Space Marines far more than the Guard (lots of Rhino-chassis vehicles, no Chimera/Russ-chassis vehicles), I'd think you'd see a variant Stormraven or Storm Talon piloted by Sororitas before you'd see a variant Valkyrie. .....

I just ran across a comment from a thread last year on what a Sisterhood aerospace force would have that expresses my stance more concisely than I'm managing too:

 Grey Templar wrote:
They most likely have ships of some kinds, but they wouldn't have their own unique ship designs like Space Marines. They'd just be the same ships the Navy uses with the Fleur-de-lis slapped all over it, and with lots of gold trim. Hopefully GW will give them Valks eventually. Its the only GW flyer that would make sense for them to have.

 SisterSydney wrote:
That's 5 points more than a Hellstrike (per Imperial Armour:Aeronautica), which has better range -- in fact, so much range it'll hardly ever matter on the tabletop -- but worse AP and suffers, as we've discussed, from being Ordnance.

I wouldn't base any point costs on hellstrike missiles. 10 points for them is an absolute joke, they'd have to cost negative points before anyone would seriously consider putting them on a unit. And even then you'd still never use them, you'd just take them to make your unit cheaper. I'm not saying that 15 points for a one-shot exorcist missile is good or bad (IMO based on hunter-killer missiles paying 50% more for AP 1 is maybe a bit too cheap, but not completely unreasonable), just that you need to look elsewhere to find a comparable weapon to base their point costs on.

Well, compared to an HK missile, you get better AP but worse range -- not that you'd need the HK's "unlimited" range much, but an Exorcist's 48" can't fire the long way across the standard table, so that is a limitation.

[EDIT: I also switched the Valkyrie's Hellstrikes out for single-shot Exorcists for +10 points]


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S.: Relooking that old thread on whether Sisters had spaceships, I'm wondering if a Sister-piloted Avenger should even be a thing, because a Strike Fighter is a little too "feth you, Decree Passive." Whereas you can justify the need for "armed transports," both pure spacecraft and fliers, which seems very in keeping with the way the Sororitas wriggle around the restrictions:

INQUISITOR: And how does this comply with the Decree Passive, exactly?
CANONESS: This? It's a Sororitas Valkyrie, A transport armed for self-defense. It doesn't even have lascannon!
INQUISITOR: Well, I suppose that's all right. But what about this?
CANONESS: Oh, the Victoria? That's a transport with slightly less transport capacity and more self-defense capability.
INQUISITOR: Three twin-linked multi-meltas? For "self-defense"?
CANONESS: They're not even lascannons!
INQUISITOR: Hmmmph. Well, what about this thing, the "Virago," with the giant missile launcher sticking out the side? There's no room for passengers or cargo at all!
CANONESS: Quite the contrary, Inquisitor. As you can see from these specifications, all the Mechanicum delivered to us was a standard Valkyrie transport. It just happens, at this particular moment, to be transporting a fully functional Exorcist Missile Launcher.
INQUISITOR: I'm sure there's a flaw here somewhere.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Sparkadia's amazing Orkish AC-130 Skepta Gunship and the release of Codex:Astra Militarum inspired me to take another shot at my Sororitas Valkyrie variants.

I'm honored!

So, since I've been asked to, here's my thoughts on the subject. I will limit myself to the fluffy bits, as I do not consider myself to be sufficiently knowledgeable to 6E rules and interplay.

First off, the introduction:

Personally, I'd alter the description in a way that removes or limits the role of Battle Sisters as gunners. With how many capital and small ships the Ecclesiarchy must possess, you could easily double the overall number of Sisters Militant (or rather bind half the number they have right now) just for this supporting role. After all, it's not just the sheer number of vessels that would have to be (wo)manned, but also the backwards technology of the 41st millennium that may well see a single capital ship gun require several dozen crew to operate.

The way I see it, there's several alternative solutions:
Of course, this is just my interpretation, and it hinges partially on the amount of Battle Sisters being comparatively small (I'm still clinging to the numbers we were given in the 2E Codex - after all, it was the most detailed account of membership so far), so I am biased against inflating their numbers.

I would also limit starship availability to the Major Orders Militant, as only those actually have a reason to traverse the Imperium and show up across the galaxy. The Minor Orders are all bound to some local duty - which is why those convents came to split off from their maternal Major Order in the first place, after all - and would usually be way too small to warrant their own starships. And even though I am not sure whether or not this consistency was intentional on the part of Games Workshop, it provides a neat explanation as to why you almost never see anyone but a Major Order show up on some other world to participate in a conflict. In the few instances that actually do feature the presence of a Minor Order, such as the Cadian Gate background, said Minor Order was already there to begin with.

That's not to mean that Minor Orders may never operate off-world - but if they do, they may well depend on transportation by the grace of the Imperial Navy ... or their Sisters from the Major Orders.
(also, fewer ships make it more likely that it won't be regarded as a blatant breach of the Decree Passive)
Also, there are still other possible loopholes such as Navy ships being "permanently seconded" to an Order, which is how I've explained the means of interstellar transportation of my own homebrewed Minor Order.


Now, as to the aircraft:


I approve of the choice of the Valkyrie for the dropship. It's a beautiful design, and it ties in nicely with Andy Hoare's description of Sororitas deep strikes in Citadel Journal #49. The multi-meltas sound useful enough for close air support of ground forces. I would, however, remove the "Grav Chute Insertion" rule (if it's going to drop anyone in the air, it's gonna be the Seraphim).

Also, +1 for the option to take a Laud Hailer. Cue picture of a veteran Battle Sister with sunglasses standing on a smoky battlefield.
"I love the smell of promethium after morning prayers. You know, one time we had a hive bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink mutant. The smell, you know that gasoline smell... The whole hive. Smelled like ... *sniffs, pondering* ... purity."

As for the missiles, I feel it would be cool if the effect of the vehicular Exorcist Missile Launcher could somehow be replicated, as I consider the "relative unreliability" to be an important fluff perk of this weapon system, and one that gives this missile weapon a very "Sister'ish" touch.
You could even have it tie in with the Laud Hailer, by describing how its launch sequences are tied to the Valkyrie's audio systems - the gunner simply holds the trigger, and the launcher will fire one or more missiles depending on how it fits best to the hymn currently being played. Psychological warfare hooray!


I'm afraid I'm not a fan of any of the other choices, as I'm just too biased in favour of the Lightning Fighter (after all, this one was the first SoB fighter we've seen ever - plus, I'm still of the opinion that the Avenger is butt-ugly, and the guys at Forge World wrote its fluff in a way that excludes Sororitas pilots, which only increases my reluctance to accept it further), as well as keeping the number of flyers to the smallest minimum possible, in keeping with established trends within the Sisterhood's armoury. I'm also looking at it from a perspective of what the most useful and thus likely assets of aerospace support for the Adepta Sororitas are, and to me that means two things:
- a transport to get their boots on the ground (which, similar to the Storm Trooper Valkyries, then also serves as a hovering gunship for fire support)
- a dogfighter to keep it safe

Much more than that just feels as if it'd break into the Imperial Guard's style of having a dedicated tool for every kind of job. The Battle Sisters having a very limited and straightforward list of vehicles and wargear is what I'd consider to be playing towards their strength, rather than a flaw.


On a sidenote, what else I would have included in a list like this would be the Dominica-pattern Drop Pods from the Citadel Journal article. Their use is highly specialised and their fluff should stress the lack of availability except for "special purpose" missions, but they might deserve to at least get mentioned for the sake of wholeness.

Wait, Sisters use grav-chutes?

Ah, no .. well, not in my understanding/interpretation of the 'verse anyways. That remark was referring to the Valkyrie profile in the opening post, not to the Citadel Journal article. Quite the contrary, in fact, as that article only mentioned the combination of Navy-type dropships + jump pack Seraphim.
I wouldn't even be certain whether a grav chute would theoretically be capable of countering the immense weight of power armour. I reckon a Battle Sister in full gear may easily weigh twice as much as a Guardsman! That's more of less a technobabble question, though, and a writer may simply decide that, yes, the tech really is capable of doing that.

I'm just not sure if Sydney included the Grav Chutes rule simply because it may be part of the vehicle's current standard profile, or if the Sisters are truly intended to use it, though?

Okay, I think there is one fundamental problem with this proposal: it takes the Valkyre, a Navy-owned flyer design, as the basis instead of the free-to-take designs: the Storm Chicken (Storm Talon) and the Super Storm Chicken (Stormraven). In my opinion, it would fit the rolling theme better if the Sisters took these designs instead of munching on the Imperial Navy. They are already borrowing Rhinos, so why not borrowing some flyers too?

So here is my take on the Battle Sister flyers:

AVENGING TALON / Fast Attack / 170 points - this one is actually based on the DA Nephilim/Dark Talon: so wings and a big central gun
BS: 4 / FA: 11 / SA: 11 / RA: 11 / HP: 3 / Vehicle (Flyer)

Wargear:
- Ceramite Plating
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter
- Avenger Bolt Cannon
- Six Exorcist Missiles

Special Rules:
- Missile Lock (for the Hellfury Missiles)
- Shield of Faith
- Strafing Run

Options:
May exchange the Avenger Bolt Cannon for Melta Cannon - free
May exchange the Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter for Twin-Linked Multi-Melta - 10 points
May exchange all six Exorcist Missiles with six Hellfury Missiles - free


STORM ANGEL / Heavy Support / 200 points - Stormraven coming in!
BS: 4 / FA: 12 / SA: 12 / RA: 12 / HP: 3 / Vehicle (Flyer, Hover, Transport)

Wargear:
- Ceramite Plating
- Twin-Linked Multi-Melta
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter
- Four Exorcist Missiles

Special Rules:
- Assault Vehicle
- Heavenly Skies (drop those Seraphims!)
- Power of the Machine Spirit
- Shield of Faith

Transport Capacity:
- 12 models
- 1 Penitent Engine

Options:
May replace the two side Access Points with two Hurricane Bolters - 30 points
May exchange all four Exorcist Missiles with four Hellfury Missiles - free


This way, you have a good (though somewhat costly) general fighter-bomber and a tough assault transport gunship. That's pretty much everything you need in the flyer section.

What a lot of great comments! One perk of being in the US is I get to wake up to fresh posts from the Europeans (and the British, if you don't consider Brits to be European: "Fog in Channel: Continent Cut Off").


WARGEAR

Sparkadia wrote:The Dark Eldar Flyers can get Flickerfields for 10 points which provide a 5++. However, they are far more fragile with 10/10/10 all round. I'd probably put the Shield 'O Holiness-ness at 10 points, due to the fact it is marginally more useful because your AV is higher.

Wait, wouldn't having a lower AV make getting a save more valuable, not less? If you're pretty sure your armor isn't going to stop incoming rounds, you're relying all the more on saves, so they're worth more to you.

Sparkadia wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:

Can you put flamer weapons on aircraft? From a realism (ha!) point of view, you'd risk flying into your own fiery backwash..... but maybe there's an official flier out there that does have a flamer weapon?

Don't see why not. A light licking won't harm the hull at all, and it is probably given a heat-treatment to help.

Have you though of a circular turret mounted to the undersides of the Valks wings? So it can spin 360 degrees and torch stuff? Don't see why that couldn't be a thing. It would look so mean.

EDIT; Somewhat like this from Star Wars, but less dinky-looking.

Spoiler:

Yay, flamers! Boo, ball turrets! Well, not "boo" so much, but I don't see how they'd fit on the Valkyrie without truly uglifying what's a great design. You can't put them on the underside of the wings because the wings curve downward (because feth aerodynamics) and gets in the way of the gun's traverse, and you can't put them on the underside of the hull because then the Valk can't land...

Lynata wrote:As for the missiles, I feel it would be cool if the effect of the vehicular Exorcist Missile Launcher could somehow be replicated, as I consider the "relative unreliability" to be an important fluff perk of this weapon system, and one that gives this missile weapon a very "Sister'ish" touch.

A reliable Exorcist is no fun, you're right. I'd always envisioned the problem being in the feed mechanism, but since it's just a bunch of rockets in tubes, it makes more sense for the problem to be in the rocket itself -- either the motor or the targeting system refusing to work. So:

Exorcist Missile Tube: 48" S:8 AP:1 Heavy 1, One Use Only, Failure to Launch
Failure to launch: When shooting the Exorcist Missile Tube, if you roll to hit and get an even number, the missile fails to launch. Treat this as an automatic miss that does not count as the missile's "one use only": you may attempt to fire the missile again and again until you roll an odd number and actually launches, at which point it is expended.


FETH THE AVENGER

Lynata wrote:I'm afraid I'm not a fan of any of the other choices, as I'm just too biased in favour of the Lightning Fighter (after all, this one was the first SoB fighter we've seen ever - plus, I'm still of the opinion that the Avenger is butt-ugly, and the guys at Forge World wrote its fluff in a way that excludes Sororitas pilots, which only increases my reluctance to accept it further), as well as keeping the number of flyers to the smallest minimum possible, in keeping with established trends within the Sisterhood's armoury....

And my modified Avengers really aren't working for me: The Exorcist Missile Launcher is over the top, the single-shot Exorcists are meh, the rear turret is annoyingly pointless, Sisters having dedicated Strike Fighters is pushing a little hard on the Decree Passive... basically I just love that Avenger Bolt Cannon, but I'll just go put it on a tank.


GRAV CHUTES

Lynata wrote:I would, however, remove the "Grav Chute Insertion" rule (if it's going to drop anyone in the air, it's gonna be the Seraphim).

Ashiraya wrote:Wait, Sisters use grav-chutes?

Lynata wrote:Ah, no .. well, not in my understanding/interpretation of the 'verse anyways....
I wouldn't even be certain whether a grav chute would theoretically be capable of countering the immense weight of power armour. I reckon a Battle Sister in full gear may easily weigh twice as much as a Guardsman! That's more of less a technobabble question, though, and a writer may simply decide that, yes, the tech really is capable of doing that....

Actually, Codex:Inquisition lets you put Acolytes in power armor and then have them grav-chute out of a Valkyrie -- though whether GW intended that is anyone's guess. But the fact that Space Marines -- who are freaking meat-mountains -- can drop out of Stormravens using grav-chutes (explicitly mentioned in the Codex entry) means there are grav-chutes that can handle the weight.

From a fluff standpoint, jumping Seraphim out of Valkyries makes sense, but from a tactical, tabletop standpoint, you'd just have them Deep Strike -- presumably from a high-altitude Valkyrie or other transport which plays no other role in the game.



VALKYRIES OR OTHERS?

 Lynata wrote:
I approve of the choice of the Valkyrie for the dropship. It's a beautiful design, and it ties in nicely with Andy Hoare's description of Sororitas deep strikes in Citadel Journal #49. The multi-meltas sound useful enough for close air support of ground forces.

AtoMaki wrote:Okay, I think there is one fundamental problem with this proposal: it takes the Valkyre, a Navy-owned flyer design, as the basis instead of the free-to-take designs: the Storm Chicken (Storm Talon) and the Super Storm Chicken (Stormraven). In my opinion, it would fit the rolling theme better if the Sisters took these designs instead of munching on the Imperial Navy. They are already borrowing Rhinos, so why not borrowing some flyers too?

I'm going to agree with Lynata here. The Storm Talon, Storm Raven et al aren't "free to take" -- they're custom-built by the Mechanicum for the Astartes, and considered high-value assets, like a Land Raider. The Valkyrie's built by the Mechanicum too, mainly for the Navy, but there are so many around it should be much easier to get some for the Sororitas. Plus the Valkyries can be justified under the Decree Passive as "just armed transports, not really attack aircraft." And they're just cooler-looking.

That said, AtoMaki's designs for Sisterized Storm Chickens are pretty cool.


FLUFF

Lynata wrote:I'd alter the description in a way that removes or limits the role of Battle Sisters as gunners. With how many capital and small ships the Ecclesiarchy must possess, you could easily double the overall number of Sisters Militant (or rather bind half the number they have right now) just for this supporting role. After all, it's not just the sheer number of vessels that would have to be (wo)manned, but also the backwards technology of the 41st millennium that may well see a single capital ship gun require several dozen crew to operate.

The way I see it, there's several alternative solutions:
....Gunnery crews might be required to be female, but do not have to be members of the Orders Militant. They could be drawn from the ranks of the Frateris Militia, with Schola graduates who didn't make the cut for the Sororitas as their officers. This is sort of mirroring how the Space Marines crew their starships, with the Frateris Militia essentially being the Ecclesiarchy's version of Chapter serfs....
OR
There is actually a dedicated Non-Militant Order ("Orders Vectorum"?) that has specialised in providing interstellar transportation both for the Sisterhood as well as the Ecclesiarchy as a whole....

I like both these options, actually. Plus there could be the simple fact that a lot of the Ecclesiarchy's ships are just "civilian transports armed for self-defense" -- because, seriously, you can't walk down the street in most of the Imperium without a chainsword, you go armed to the grocery store -- so their male crew could man the guns as long as they're not full-time gunners. For a purpose-built warship, or a larger weapon on an "armed transport," you could use the Frateris Militia guncrew for unskilled work under supervision of Sororitas gunners, who actually aim and fire. And I like the idea of a whole order of spacefaring "non-militant" Sisters -- non-militant in the same way Hospitallers, Famulous etc, are, i.e. they're not combat troops but certainly know how to fight.



AND FINALLY

Lynata wrote:Also, +1 for the option to take a Laud Hailer. Cue picture of a veteran Battle Sister with sunglasses standing on a smoky battlefield.
"I love the smell of promethium after morning prayers. You know, one time we had a hive bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink mutant. The smell, you know that gasoline smell... The whole hive. Smelled like ... *sniffs, pondering* ... purity."

Ha! Extra exaltations for you.

 SisterSydney wrote:

I'm going to agree with Lynata here. The Storm Talon, Storm Raven et al aren't "free to take" -- they're custom-built by the Mechanicum for the Astartes, and considered high-value assets, like a Land Raider.

Not at all. The Storm X flyers were pending for Mechanicus acceptance when the Astartes simply flew in and took the designs for themselves because they needed them. And the reaction of the Mechanicus? "Use them with good health, it is the endtimes anyway!"

I can totally see the Sisters acquiring the designs too and reproducing the flyers in secret manufactorum complexes beneath their Order HQs, Dark Angels style. And I'm pretty sure that the Decree Passive does not limit the weapons the Ecclesiarchy can use, only the soldiers it can employ.

 Lynata wrote:
I'm afraid I'm not a fan of any of the other choices, as I'm just too biased in favour of the Lightning Fighter (after all, this one was the first SoB fighter we've seen ever - plus, I'm still of the opinion that the Avenger is butt-ugly, and the guys at Forge World wrote its fluff in a way that excludes Sororitas pilots, which only increases my reluctance to accept it further), as well as keeping the number of flyers to the smallest minimum possible, in keeping with established trends within the Sisterhood's armoury.

The problem with starting from the Lightning is that the Lightning is an absolutely terrible unit that nobody will ever use. You'd have to completely re-write the rules for it until the only thing it has in common with the original is the name, at which point you might as well just use the previously-given Avenger modification and proxy your Lightning model as an Avenger.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Wait, wouldn't having a lower AV make getting a save more valuable, not less? If you're pretty sure your armor isn't going to stop incoming rounds, you're relying all the more on saves, so they're worth more to you.

The point is that AV 10 takes so many more glances/pens that a 6+/5+ save isn't going to prevent your inevitable death. At AV 12, where you're more likely to take 1-2 hits at most, you have a much more realistic hope of surviving and therefore defensive upgrades are more valuable.