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It would be really cool and hilarious to do 20 to 30 Mandrakes, then the Corpse thief Formation with Deep Striking Grotesques w/ Haemies and Urien. Just take a normal Dark Eldar detachment, Corpse Thief , Grotesquirie.

You'd have no defense against fliers other than like Twin linked Heat lances if you put that on the Talos.

I'm a bit late to the DSing Heatlance discussion but the chances of getting into Melta range via Deepstrike with these things is actually pretty good.

Say you are trying to DS 1" off the bottom right corner of a Land Raider. Think of it as a coordinate system, with the origin being your succseful hit, and the Land Raider taking up the first quadrant. That basically gives you a 75% chance of landing somewhere successfully, and the vast majority of that area will still be in the 9" melta range (as their will only be a small section 9+ inches directly away from the LR that will land you out of range, on the flip side, you will have some areas on the other side of the LR that will be successful). So, for simplicity sake, lets called it 75% (intuitively I think it's higher then that).

33% direct hit + 75%(66%) for scatter but still in Melta range leaves ~ an 82.5% chance of success. Really pretty reasonable odds.

I ran a list last night that incuded:

7x Wyches, hydra gauntlets, Hekatrix, Raider with NS
7x Wyches, hydra gauntlets, Hekatrix, Raider with NS
5x Wyches, Venom
6x Bloodbrides, hydra gauntlets, Syren with Agonizer, Raider with NS

Clawed Fiend
Clawed Fiend
Clawed Fiend

2x Khymera, Beastmaster
2x Khymera, Beastmaster
Khymera

Succubus with glaive, armor of misery, goes with 7x Wyches

(Assortment of Trueborn, ravagers, a couple Kabs)

I ripped the stuffing out of Space Marines, tabling them in five turns except for his flyer. The 1x Beast units were excellent. He didn't want to devote entire shooting attacks to Khymera but was forced to, as they ran around the map taking maelstrom objectives. It felt very rewarding to cause his units to focus on tiny 30-point units, as it gave my Wyches breathing room. The Fiends all made it into CC, one destroyed his Thunderfire cannon, another leapt into his aegis defense line and bashed up his Devastators manning the quad gun.

The pressure of all this let my two Ravager units with DLs fire all game, only getting shot at once (immobilized, kept firing). My combat drug was +1 attack which was RIDICULOUS. Five-attack Bloodbrides.

Yay Wyches! Yay dead Marines!

ShadarLogoth wrote:
I'm a bit late to the DSing Heatlance discussion but the chances of getting into Melta range via Deepstrike with these things is actually pretty good.

Spoiler:

Say you are trying to DS 1" off the bottom right corner of a Land Raider. Think of it as a coordinate system, with the origin being your succseful hit, and the Land Raider taking up the first quadrant. That basically gives you a 75% chance of landing somewhere successfully, and the vast majority of that area will still be in the 9" melta range (as their will only be a small section 9+ inches directly away from the LR that will land you out of range, on the flip side, you will have some areas on the other side of the LR that will be successful). So, for simplicity sake, lets called it 75% (intuitively I think it's higher then that).

33% direct hit + 75%(66%) for scatter but still in Melta range leaves ~ an 82.5% chance of success. Really pretty reasonable odds.

Except if you scatter on top of the tank you're trying to melta, don't you Mishap?

 SisterSydney wrote:
Yay Wyches! Yay dead Marines!

ShadarLogoth wrote:
I'm a bit late to the DSing Heatlance discussion but the chances of getting into Melta range via Deepstrike with these things is actually pretty good.

Spoiler:

Say you are trying to DS 1" off the bottom right corner of a Land Raider. Think of it as a coordinate system, with the origin being your succseful hit, and the Land Raider taking up the first quadrant. That basically gives you a 75% chance of landing somewhere successfully, and the vast majority of that area will still be in the 9" melta range (as their will only be a small section 9+ inches directly away from the LR that will land you out of range, on the flip side, you will have some areas on the other side of the LR that will be successful). So, for simplicity sake, lets called it 75% (intuitively I think it's higher then that).

33% direct hit + 75%(66%) for scatter but still in Melta range leaves ~ an 82.5% chance of success. Really pretty reasonable odds.

Except if you scatter on top of the tank you're trying to melta, don't you Mishap?

Scatter happens in 2 dimensions, while melta range is a 1 dimensional problem. If you scatter the full 12", but tangential to the line between the scourges and the tank you still have the exact same range to target.

33% of the time you dont scatter
66% of the time you scatter
~25% of the time you do scatter, you go in a direction that does not greatly affect your range to target
~50% of the time you do scatter you go in a direction that somewhat affects your range to target
~25% of the time you do scatter, you go in a direction that does GREATLY affect your range to target (getting closer or further away)
then you have to determine how much you scatter. You have a 40% chance of scattering not very far and a very small chance of scattering more than 9", which in 2D means you are often going to be still in range.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
It's really annoying DE don't have any reserve manipulation in their own codex. I dunno, maybe it's supposed to portray how indisciplined their armies are ("sorry, can't fight now, doin' all the drugs") but it just seems like an oversight.

The Improved comms and advanced tactical planning was left in the garage next to the Archons jetbike and skyboard.
I just hope they continue to neuter all codex characters as much as they did for DE.

-Matt

We all know that GW didn't offer those HQ options because they couldn't be bothered to make the models themselves, and after their debacle with the CHS lawsuit, they're not going to leave any room for a third party to make a model in their place.

 Exergy wrote:
You have a 40% chance of scattering not very far and a very small chance of scattering more than 9", which in 2D means you are often going to be still in range.

You start 1" away, so a 8" scatter directly away puts the first model exactly in range, and at least 2 of the next 4.
A 9" scatter is going to leave you with only a single model at half range.
10" scatter gives you a handful of S6 shots vs his AV12 (or worse).

When you do scatter, you have a 4/6 scatter, 1/4 of those are moving directly away, 1/6 are moving far enough where you lose melta.
Interestingly, 4/6 scatter, 1/4 move toward the tank, and depending on the tank, you might get really lucky and scatter past it.

So, when fighting in a salt flat with no other terrain or enemies to scatter into, heat lances are good. If the enemy has bubbled wrapped at all, or shored up against impassable terrain, odds get much worse.

-Matt

I'm noticing everyone is taking wyches in units of 7 or 8, 50/50 with hekatrix but no upgrades on her. I'm not quite sure I follow the reasoning here.

If you plan on running an ID with them then yeah drop them to 9 to make space on the raider but as a standalone squad wouldn't it be best to run them as 10 so you get the three wych weapons? At 5 points a piece I think that's a bargain. Hekatrix I can understand running naked just for the extra attacks and LD but if you got some points to spare wouldn't a power sword be ok too? I know strength 3 sucks but ap3 is still decent (agonizer on a hekatrix seems over costed but on a syren it might be decent), especially since I see wyches being most useful in causing wounds then clearing house with a sweeping advance.

Also I see a lot of people running two raiders with wyches then one venom with wyches, is there a reason for this? A specific strategy or something?

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
I'm noticing everyone is taking wyches in units of 7 or 8, 50/50 with hekatrix but no upgrades on her. I'm not quite sure I follow the reasoning here.

If you plan on running an ID with them then yeah drop them to 9 to make space on the raider but as a standalone squad wouldn't it be best to run them as 10 so you get the three wych weapons? At 5 points a piece I think that's a bargain. Hekatrix I can understand running naked just for the extra attacks and LD but if you got some points to spare wouldn't a power sword be ok too? I know strength 3 sucks but ap3 is still decent (agonizer on a hekatrix seems over costed but on a syren it might be decent), especially since I see wyches being most useful in causing wounds then clearing house with a sweeping advance.

Also I see a lot of people running two raiders with wyches then one venom with wyches, is there a reason for this? A specific strategy or something?

I'm hesitant to run 10x wyches with upgrades because I know it will be a fire magnet. I think it's doable, however DE tend to do best in multiple small units. I'll probably try 10x in a raider soon though.

I tend to get Hekatrixes for the Ld point. That being said, I think an agonizer on her works too. I wouldn't run all of them with agonizers, maybe just one. Wyches will often end up in CC with units with a 2+ armor, so putting agonizers on ever Hekatrix seems like diminishing returns to me.

Running them in Raiders is *great* this edition, because it makes them a much less-attractive target than ever before due to the 3+ jink save. My experience has been that people either try to ignore them for a turn or two which allows them to carry out their attack plan, or they waste a lot of firepower on a low-point Wych squad that jinks most of it away. Either way I usually feel like I'm winning.

Three Wych squads in Raiders with NS seems to be the magic number for me. Simply put, early in the game it's really hard to stop three Raiders with shooting unless your opponent ignores a lot of cover. If I run a 4th squad I'll put them in Venoms.

the problems with mathematical analysis of DSing;
If you think of scatter as a circle, with 1 inch smaller circles within each, thus creating your distances. The issues are then;

A) your unit size will affect whether you successfully DS, as even if you scatter but its not within the area of the tank there is still a chance when placing your models you will touch something and thus unsuccessfully DS.

B) Actually cant think of a B that hasnt been mentioned


But the way to mathematically do it would be I think;

Use the circles, the scatter dice is represented by an angle from 0 to 360, so this you need to randomly generate 66% of the time, the distance is then set by a random value generated between 2 and 12, this would then give you a resultant point. You would want to run a simulation of this calculation a 1000 times, then by looking at the resultant if drawn out, you would be able to determine;

What provides the least chance of mishap (IE the area that has the least points of data) and which distance provides the highest chance of getting into melta with minimal chance of mishap (as this will be higher than the distance for lowest chance of mishap) - it is a slight trade off

I dont think this will be too hard to simulate, i may have a try tomorrow at work.
I also think it might be favourable to consider the scourges as the static object and that your target is what is moving away from you, but not sure il have a think

mercury14 wrote:

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
I'm noticing everyone is taking wyches in units of 7 or 8, 50/50 with hekatrix but no upgrades on her. I'm not quite sure I follow the reasoning here.

If you plan on running an ID with them then yeah drop them to 9 to make space on the raider but as a standalone squad wouldn't it be best to run them as 10 so you get the three wych weapons? At 5 points a piece I think that's a bargain. Hekatrix I can understand running naked just for the extra attacks and LD but if you got some points to spare wouldn't a power sword be ok too? I know strength 3 sucks but ap3 is still decent (agonizer on a hekatrix seems over costed but on a syren it might be decent), especially since I see wyches being most useful in causing wounds then clearing house with a sweeping advance.

Also I see a lot of people running two raiders with wyches then one venom with wyches, is there a reason for this? A specific strategy or something?

I'm hesitant to run 10x wyches with upgrades because I know it will be a fire magnet. I think it's doable, however DE tend to do best in multiple small units. I'll probably try 10x in a raider soon though.

I tend to get Hekatrixes for the Ld point. That being said, I think an agonizer on her works too. I wouldn't run all of them with agonizers, maybe just one. Wyches will often end up in CC with units with a 2+ armor, so putting agonizers on ever Hekatrix seems like diminishing returns to me.

Running them in Raiders is *great* this edition, because it makes them a much less-attractive target than ever before due to the 3+ jink save. My experience has been that people either try to ignore them for a turn or two which allows them to carry out their attack plan, or they waste a lot of firepower on a low-point Wych squad that jinks most of it away. Either way I usually feel like I'm winning.

Three Wych squads in Raiders with NS seems to be the magic number for me. Simply put, early in the game it's really hard to stop three Raiders with shooting unless your opponent ignores a lot of cover. If I run a 4th squad I'll put them in Venoms.

Is 10x wyches with 3x wych weapons and a naked hekatrix in a raider a big target? I'm not sure since I only started collecting my DE models so far and haven't played with them yet. I don't think that squad is too expensive so if they dump firepower on it then you jink and get 3+ with NS or they don't shoot at it and you pretty much guarantee an assault next turn. Win/Win I suppose right? I dunno I guess I'm sold on the wych weapons cause I think they are cheap force multipliers for your wych units, it doesn't make sense to me to not take a squad of ten with 3 wych weapons unless you want them joined by an IC or want to put them in a venom.

Has anyone used the 5 Talos Formation yet? I kind of think it'd be the strongest anchor for a Beta Strike list, I can't honestly think of anything that could remove that from the board.

Hollismason wrote:
Has anyone used the 5 Talos Formation yet? I kind of think it'd be the strongest anchor for a Beta Strike list, I can't honestly think of anything that could remove that from the board.

No but I saw it in action - it was very durable when deployed in ruins (3+ armour, 4+ cover, 5+ FnP). Didn't take a lot of wounds and just regained them all when IWND kicked in.
I think they ran it barebones (TL Splinter Cannon) all I can remember was 'going to shoot that unit with the Talos' *chucks a bucket of dice*

Solar Shock wrote:
the problems with mathematical analysis of DSing;
If you think of scatter as a circle, with 1 inch smaller circles within each, thus creating your distances. The issues are then;

A) your unit size will affect whether you successfully DS, as even if you scatter but its not within the area of the tank there is still a chance when placing your models you will touch something and thus unsuccessfully DS.

B) Actually cant think of a B that hasnt been mentioned


But the way to mathematically do it would be I think;

Use the circles, the scatter dice is represented by an angle from 0 to 360, so this you need to randomly generate 66% of the time, the distance is then set by a random value generated between 2 and 12, this would then give you a resultant point. You would want to run a simulation of this calculation a 1000 times, then by looking at the resultant if drawn out, you would be able to determine;

What provides the least chance of mishap (IE the area that has the least points of data) and which distance provides the highest chance of getting into melta with minimal chance of mishap (as this will be higher than the distance for lowest chance of mishap) - it is a slight trade off

I dont think this will be too hard to simulate, i may have a try tomorrow at work.
I also think it might be favourable to consider the scourges as the static object and that your target is what is moving away from you, but not sure il have a think

You need not run the simulation any times. You just create a 2D map of where you can end up.
33% of the time you start at the center of a circle where you started to DS. then there are 11 different circles going outwards from your start points. Each has a well known probability of landing on them(2.7, 5.8, 8.3, 11.1, 13.8, 16.6, 13.8....) lowered by the chance that you will only scatter 66% of the time.
Once you know you are on one of those circles, you need to divide the circles into sectors, perhaps 10 sectors going around the circumference, each with a 10% chance of arriving at.

Then you need to evaluate what you achive by landing there. Did you mishap, are you in melta range, or are you out of melta range. Then add up all the probabilities. At the extreme range you are over simplifying with the 10 sectors, but 12" scatter is rare. If you like you can add more sectors there and less at lover levels, 2" scatter is also rare but usually doesnt affect you much.

I would drop 5-6" away with scourges. Then if you scatter mostly towards, you might not mishap if you roll low. If you scatter mostly away you might still be in melta range if you scatter away. If you scatter tangentally, you will almost surely still be in melta range. Gives you a very good chance of being in range and not misshaping.

Anyway given the terrain, table edge, unit placement and size of the tank you will get different expected probabilities. Depending on how you play, your milage will vary. But remember, if the tank is set up near the board edges with lots of dangerous terrain about it, it probably has limited fields of fire. If the tank is completely surrounded in bubblewrap, that bubble wrap costs points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozocrone wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Has anyone used the 5 Talos Formation yet? I kind of think it'd be the strongest anchor for a Beta Strike list, I can't honestly think of anything that could remove that from the board.

No but I saw it in action - it was very durable when deployed in ruins (3+ armour, 4+ cover, 5+ FnP). Didn't take a lot of wounds and just regained them all when IWND kicked in.
I think they ran it barebones (TL Splinter Cannon) all I can remember was 'going to shoot that unit with the Talos' *chucks a bucket of dice*

for 600+ points it better chuck a bucket of dice. Note that it has a chance to one shot a wraithknight, it averages 3.75 wounds after saves on anything within range with a 3+, but boon or bust you could end up doing 6 in one round of shooting.

Do you think that the best lay out is just straight up Splinter Cannons for the Talos w/ Ichor Injectors?

I'm almost up to five ( Built my own!)

So I was thinking this would be cool

Talos Formation

Dark Artisan

2 to 3 Squads of Mandrakes

Whatever else I could fit in the 2000 points

It looks fun and if you were playing Relic it'd be almost a instant win. It's I think at a certain point like turn 3 to 4 that it's almost impossible to kill that Talos unit because of Feel No Pain and It Will Not Die.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/622077.page#7334845

On the Talos formation, I'd either stock splinter cannon, or haywire, depending on how much other shooting you have. I'd give a couple of them injectors.

With Dark Artisan coming down in the backfield, you can pin the opponent in place.

If I had the models, I'd love to try 3x Talos formations.
15 Talos, nothing else. Yeah, that Talos is my warlord, good luck with that.

-Matt

Dark Artisan is another that's just so crazy good it's ridiculous though. That things a Death Star and relatively cheap.

Give the Haemonoculus a Sump, Flesh Gauntlet, and a WWP you're good to go. Ten points to give that Haemy Rampage and he's always going to be pretty much out number, yes please. I tried it out but picked a Heat Lance for the Talos, just because you get the no scatter Deep Strike and it's a melta weapon

Yeah it's a cool formation that's not getting used. I think it could be super powerful with Eldar allies casting Invisibility on it or Shrouding or whatever.That'd pretty much make it indestructible once it get's to a certain turn. It's already indestructible almost after turn 4.

 Frozocrone wrote:

No but I saw it in action - it was very durable when deployed in ruins (3+ armour, 4+ cover, 5+ FnP). Didn't take a lot of wounds and just regained them all when IWND kicked in.
I think they ran it barebones (TL Splinter Cannon) all I can remember was 'going to shoot that unit with the Talos' *chucks a bucket of dice*

I don't believe Talos/Chronos have PfP, so you wouldn't ever gain IWND, correct?

 Exergy wrote:


You need not run the simulation any times. You just create a 2D map of where you can end up.
33% of the time you start at the center of a circle where you started to DS. then there are 11 different circles going outwards from your start points. Each has a well known probability of landing on them(2.7, 5.8, 8.3, 11.1, 13.8, 16.6, 13.8....) lowered by the chance that you will only scatter 66% of the time.
Once you know you are on one of those circles, you need to divide the circles into sectors, perhaps 10 sectors going around the circumference, each with a 10% chance of arriving at.

Then you need to evaluate what you achive by landing there. Did you mishap, are you in melta range, or are you out of melta range. Then add up all the probabilities. At the extreme range you are over simplifying with the 10 sectors, but 12" scatter is rare. If you like you can add more sectors there and less at lover levels, 2" scatter is also rare but usually doesnt affect you much.

I would drop 5-6" away with scourges. Then if you scatter mostly towards, you might not mishap if you roll low. If you scatter mostly away you might still be in melta range if you scatter away. If you scatter tangentally, you will almost surely still be in melta range. Gives you a very good chance of being in range and not misshaping.

Anyway given the terrain, table edge, unit placement and size of the tank you will get different expected probabilities. Depending on how you play, your milage will vary. But remember, if the tank is set up near the board edges with lots of dangerous terrain about it, it probably has limited fields of fire. If the tank is completely surrounded in bubblewrap, that bubble wrap costs points.

You are right, simulation wouldn't be neccessary if you had the circle divided into 10 sectors, as youd have only a few calcs. Might have a little look in abit then I know that obviously board setup and so many other factors play into it, but in general knowing what is the most effective distance you can then on the fly factor in other units

I generally tend to feel 5-6" away while a very safe bet, could be reduced, im expecting 2-3" being the best, yeh you have a higher chance of misshap but I think that is a trade-off for the fact you'd hardly ever be out of melta range.

Solar Shock wrote:


You are right, simulation wouldn't be neccessary if you had the circle divided into 10 sectors, as youd have only a few calcs. Might have a little look in abit then I know that obviously board setup and so many other factors play into it, but in general knowing what is the most effective distance you can then on the fly factor in other units

I generally tend to feel 5-6" away while a very safe bet, could be reduced, im expecting 2-3" being the best, yeh you have a higher chance of misshap but I think that is a trade-off for the fact you'd hardly ever be out of melta range.

Honestly, I think simulating it is as simple as calculating probabilities in all the different sectors. I did a simulation some time ago of this and got a chance of ~80% to land within 9''. The chance was pretty constant within 9'' from the target, but only if the target has a sufficient depth. If you're looking at a target which is "thinner" (in the radial direction) than ~5-6'' you will be better of deepstriking at 1'' (at that point the chance to land within range and without mishap is higher because the area the target fills is smaller). So when hunting tanks I think you're almost always better of deepstriking at 1'' distance.

Hollismason wrote:
Has anyone used the 5 Talos Formation yet? I kind of think it'd be the strongest anchor for a Beta Strike list, I can't honestly think of anything that could remove that from the board.

I'm a bit nervous about trying it against some dreadknights with the gatling force weapon. There'd be no feel no pain rolls, so just relying on the toughness and 3+ armor save to keep them alive. Having them all in one unit is what makes me especially nervous about it as I've lost numerous daemon princes to the same weapon but at least there the damage wasn't able to roll over to other models.

autopilot wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

No but I saw it in action - it was very durable when deployed in ruins (3+ armour, 4+ cover, 5+ FnP). Didn't take a lot of wounds and just regained them all when IWND kicked in.
I think they ran it barebones (TL Splinter Cannon) all I can remember was 'going to shoot that unit with the Talos' *chucks a bucket of dice*

I don't believe Talos/Chronos have PfP, so you wouldn't ever gain IWND, correct?

May have been an oversight on the DE part. I don't have the codex at mo so can't confirm

Talos, Cronos, and Beasts don't have PFP in my (digital) copy -- which makes sense as they're not Dark Eldar but other kinds of creature.

Actually the Haemonoculus in the unit does have Power from the Pain, but also the Master Artisan rule which allows All Talos and Cronos to reroll FNP rolls of 1 with in 12.Which is crazy because it comes with a Cronos, so they'll get Feel No Pain of a 4+ then a Reroll.Combine this with a Corpsethief Claw of 5 Talos and yes there will not be much that can handle that.Huge unit of Talos that rerolls 1s for Feel No Pain.You get your Scout Move, then first turn move then possibly run, then you deep strike the Dark Artisan near it and you are good to go.


Killer Combo ? Spiritseer w/ Sanctic Discipline rolling for Hammer Hand and stick with Incubi. ST6 AP2 on the charge. Adds 70 points to a squad.

Or for that matter just stick the Guy in a Grotesque squad w/ a Haemonoculus, here's a crazy squad.

5 Grotesques
1 Haemonoculs w/ WWP , Sump, Flesh Gauntlet
Farseer or Spirit Seer

Roll for Sanctic , take Hammer Hand, become ST7.

or

Take 3 Grotesques , 1 Spirit Seer w/ Raider
Take 3 Grotesques , 1 Spirit Seer w/ Raider
Take 3 Grotesques , 1 Spirit Seer w/ Raider
Take 3 Grotesques , 1 Spirit Seer w/ Raider

It's 1000 points...

Or

10 Grotesques
Karandas

I'm just saying the Combos with Eldar are not finished. Everyone auto takes the Autarch ,but there's some crazy combos w/ other things.

Hollismason's post


Oh definitely, there are some that could be great fun not all top tier, but plenty of reasons to bring some of the named HQs.

Karandas is prime for combining with some nasty units as far as i can remember hes a bit of a monster in CC, as is Mr Ra for a shooty squad, as his weapon isn't particularly anti-tank like the rest of his squad, and the fire dude who's name escapes me. They all bring a good 2+ alongside plenty of USR's. barroth? if thats his name, he gives HnRun to a unit right? that could be quite nasty with grotesques.

 lessthanjeff wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Has anyone used the 5 Talos Formation yet? I kind of think it'd be the strongest anchor for a Beta Strike list, I can't honestly think of anything that could remove that from the board.

I'm a bit nervous about trying it against some dreadknights with the gatling force weapon. There'd be no feel no pain rolls, so just relying on the toughness and 3+ armor save to keep them alive. Having them all in one unit is what makes me especially nervous about it as I've lost numerous daemon princes to the same weapon but at least there the damage wasn't able to roll over to other models.

I would be more lery of some sort of combat with mass forceweapon toting grey skulls

Hollismason wrote:
Killer Combo ? Spiritseer w/ Sanctic Discipline rolling for Hammer Hand and stick with Incubi. ST6 AP2 on the charge. Adds 70 points to a squad...

...that still won't have grenades. Honestly, I can't even take Incubi seriously when you're paying a premium for their Initiative score which you can't use in the places where assault units are most useful.

Just going to leave this here...

 lessthanjeff wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Has anyone used the 5 Talos Formation yet? I kind of think it'd be the strongest anchor for a Beta Strike list, I can't honestly think of anything that could remove that from the board.

I'm a bit nervous about trying it against some dreadknights with the gatling force weapon. There'd be no feel no pain rolls, so just relying on the toughness and 3+ armor save to keep them alive. Having them all in one unit is what makes me especially nervous about it as I've lost numerous daemon princes to the same weapon but at least there the damage wasn't able to roll over to other models.

I don't usually see Dreadknights with the gat-silencer, but they do all show up with force weapons. Hitting on 4+ and instant killing on 2+ is a problem. Dreadknight has the speed to get the charge off, and does a ton of damage for his cost. A single dread knight isn't likely to finish off the whole unit, but two of them is a big threat.
IMO, you have to have some Ichor Injectors just for threats like these. Suddenly you're wounding on 2+ instead of threes and threatening with instant death of your own.

To be fair though, If I was tailoring for Grey Knights, I'd take a boat load of Crucibles and webways. S6 auto hit, on multiple units, and no save of any kind. Sounds good to me.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Just going to leave this here...

interesting.

wonder if there will be a new formation that lets DE get an actual LoW slot other than a CAD.