Saldiven wrote:

Either you satisfy your client, or you don't. Yes, it's possible that a person might have a "client from hell" that is impossible to satisfy, but those are going to be few and far between. The long term success of these companies is determined by how well they satisfy their clients, whether on the first attempt or subsequent attempts.

tgjensen wrote:

I'm not really getting into this whole debate, so don't take this as a defense of BTP or anything - it's mostly just because I enjoy debating semantics.

But I disagree, because it depends on how MWG uses the positive stories they receive. It's for endorsement purposes (i.e. advertising), so there is nothing odd about focusing on positive customer experiences. That's a fairly normal advertising strategy after all. It only becomes unethical if they attempt to present the anecdotes as statistical evidence. It's the difference between advertising that "98% of customers report that they are very happy with the services we provide" and "Listen to these people who are happy with the services we provide". Both are very common in advertising, and it's more than a bit of a stretch to say the latter is unethical. You don't expect a Pepsi ad to spend time on the people who say they prefer Coke.
MWG could have written "tell us about your experiences with BTP, good or bad!", sure, but since the intent is to endorse their partner they would obviously have chosen the positive experiences anyway. So they are really just telling the people with bad experiences to not bother wasting their time. It's not for market research purposes.

Now, if Matthew produces a video where he says "we asked our subscribers, and they only had positive things to say about BTP!" then we are definitely veering into misleading behavior. But he hasn't crossed that bridge yet.

Saldiven wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
It seems like there's some line Shawn is drawing in the sand, saying that quality stops when he says it does. When he put forward a list of issues that he sees, and told tenebre that's the only thing he would take action on, he's really saying his judgment supercedes everyone else's. That kind of top-down management style rarely works in a creative enterprise, where success is defined relative to the expectations of a client (you can't just tell people what they want, you have to be a good listener.)

This is so, super important.

If you're working as an interior designer for a homeowner or a business, you (as the designer) do not get to tell the client when the end product is "good enough.'

Either you satisfy your client, or you don't. Yes, it's possible that a person might have a "client from hell" that is impossible to satisfy, but those are going to be few and far between. The long term success of these companies is determined by how well they satisfy their clients, whether on the first attempt or subsequent attempts.

 warboss wrote:
Did BTP open up a separate youtube channel? I suspect an insider at Blue Table is spilling their level 6 painting secrets! Tenebre, can you make sure none of your models are shown in the background of this video?

 warboss wrote:
Did BTP open up a separate youtube channel? I suspect an insider at Blue Table is spilling their level 6 painting secrets! Tenebre, can you make sure none of your models are shown in the background of this video?

 warboss wrote:
Did BTP open up a separate youtube channel? I suspect an insider at Blue Table is spilling their level 6 painting secrets! Tenebre, can you make sure none of your models are shown in the background of this video?

 Lockark wrote:
You know, I never heard of the story about the titan blue table gave someone foam core building in trade for. Is their some were this was documented so I can share it with some friends who don't realize all the gak btp has pulled? Like. A lot of these bad stories don't come up easily in Google searches.

A lot of these stories only start coming out when threads like this pop up. Then people more on and they fall into obscurity. People say you should of done your research, Sept a lot of this info is hard to find in all honesty.

 RiTides wrote:
I think a general "Commission painter tracking" thread could be of use... completely unofficial, but just seeing the tallies would probably lead someone to make a decent decision.

For example, I don't think I've ever seen someone unhappy with a commission by GMM (perhaps one person, maybe, over years I've been on here?) whereas it pops up with BTP every 6 months or so. And that's just the ones that get a lot of press...

That said, I think it would need to be a neutral thread, and allow good reports as well. And, of course, that means it's open to abuse / falsifying... but, you could require a person to at least say they were the actual one the army was commissioned for, and to post the official pictures that the commission painter gave them, etc.

Sounds like a hell of a lot of work to update and keep track of, though . I have no idea how pretre keeps up with the rumor tracking thread!

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I've worked in complaint resolution with brokers and 'very important' (in their own words) business owners and corporate heads, I've seen more than my share of clients from hell. I listened to the OPs video very carefully, the guy was even excusing or trying to find explanation for some of blue table's work himself and repeatedly cited the backwards and forwards of correspondence and frustration in getting to this point. He is, to my mind, very clearly a reasonable person to have gotten so far before becoming frustrated enough to post a video and even then, this isn't a rant or tirade, but a clearly stated and calm explanation of what he received vs his (entirely reasonable) expectations.

I feel entirely comfortably ruling out the OP from 'client from hell' territory (although I expect he's the number one source of Shawn from Blue Table's ire right now, for having the audacity to post that video after weeks of delays and a shoddy product).

 YourWellPaintedArmyCom wrote:
Tenebre

I was looking on this thread closely and I can't take this anymore.

Cause I'm feeling bad to see how much did you spend on this army and how many nerves it costs to you i have an option for u.

You can choose any character or unit from your army. I'll paint them for free on high tt+ standard with unit and showcase standard on character.

We're one big family as painters/gamers. If we'll start doing mess around us there's no option to have normal relationship between us (painters) and you (gamers).

That's why it will be fully voluntary. Don't loose your faith on painting services. There's a lot of normal people around the world doing their stuff great.

On my site you can look on painted minis. Pm me or mail me for details. Only cost you'll have to pay is pp.

Stay strong mate! Don't give up.
Daniel YWPA head manager

 warboss wrote:
Did BTP open up a separate youtube channel? I suspect an insider at Blue Table is spilling their level 6 painting secrets! Tenebre, can you make sure none of your models are shown in the background of this video?

 warboss wrote:
It isn't my video but I instantly thought of BTP and this thread while watching it after a friend emailed me the link. I hope you guys have as much fun watching it as I did.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
If Shawn or his employees are making fake profiles to defend his company, what does that mean? He is aware, but unwilling to fix problems?

 warboss wrote:
Did BTP open up a separate youtube channel? I suspect an insider at Blue Table is spilling their level 6 painting secrets! Tenebre, can you make sure none of your models are shown in the background of this video?

 FatherKnowsBest wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
Why aren't you sending them to someone in Europe to do? There's a lot of Polish painters that will do you a better job, for faster, without international shipping.


I finally watched the video and I'm shocked at the results. The fire effect is kinda cool but they look completely unfinished; they've barely even hit the 3 colour minimum standard. I could do better myself and I'm not a good painter, even with 2 hours/mini time budget.

Seriously.

There are tremendous painters and studios in Poland and just when I think I'm catching up, they crank it up to 11. I can't fathom why anyone in Europe would commission elsewhere.

 Moktor wrote:


Not trying to derail, but why Poland? What is making it such a center for painting excellence? Someone in my local shop brought in an Imperial Knight and had it painted in Poland (the quality was UNREAL.) and it is just funny to me that there is such a boom in quality coming from such a specific locale. Did Poland add "Miniature Painting" to their grade school curriculum or something? lol.

 Aerethan wrote:
Sadly it seems Utah is a barren wasteland for painting talent(and in general) for the most part.