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Horrible experience for the OP. I've been following BTP in youtube for about 3 years now and always thought about having them paint a few of my models. After seeing the shoddy workmanship that they did, I'll continue to paint my own miniatures.

After this sly move, I don't pity any of the bad press they are getting. (To a degree I had hoped Shawn would outright stop the shenanigans and refund Ten in full but, I'm pretty sure everyone who watched this thread knew that he was sliding down a slippery slope.)

Anyways, I hope BTP gets taken to the cleaners. I can only imagine how horrible this is for Ten.

Oh and I feel kinda stupid for asking this but, I'm curious. Now I'm not versed in law stuffs but, wouldn't them doing this switcheroo with the videos be classed as outright fraud? (Hopefully one of the lawyer types that floats around here on dakka can answer that, though I hope that it isn't a dumb question.)

 Stormwall wrote:

Oh and I feel kinda stupid for asking this but, I'm curious. Now I'm not versed in law stuffs but, wouldn't them doing this switcheroo with the videos be classed as outright fraud? (Hopefully one of the lawyer types that floats around here on dakka can answer that, though I hope that it isn't a dumb question.)

Yep. They are based in Utah and there are statues about advanced fee fraud on the books there. It's not the same as Texas, which I am familiar with, but it's something.

Basically, AFF means, if you take money up front to do a job, there can be criminal charges brought against you if you don't do it. In Texas, they are very serious about this and you can get jail time, forfeit your assets, and the like. I don't know the details of the law in Utah (just that it exists) but I will know on Monday.

I figure the moment some criminal charge comes up, Shawn releases that chargeback. This is not Mandelbaum petty ante stuff, this is serious cash for a job not done and possibly wire fraud. I am pretty sure someone could take the case to a DA and get a cop to investigate.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Stormwall wrote:

Oh and I feel kinda stupid for asking this but, I'm curious. Now I'm not versed in law stuffs but, wouldn't them doing this switcheroo with the videos be classed as outright fraud? (Hopefully one of the lawyer types that floats around here on dakka can answer that, though I hope that it isn't a dumb question.)

Yep. They are based in Utah and there are statues about advanced fee fraud on the books there. It's not the same as Texas, which I am familiar with, but it's something.

Basically, AFF means, if you take money up front to do a job, there can be criminal charges brought against you if you don't do it. In Texas, they are very serious about this and you can get jail time, forfeit your assets, and the like. I don't know the details of the law in Utah (just that it exists) but I will know on Monday.

I figure the moment some criminal charge comes up, Shawn releases that chargeback. This is not Mandelbaum petty ante stuff, this is serious cash for a job not done and possibly wire fraud. I am pretty sure someone could take the case to a DA and get a cop to investigate.

I thought so but, I wasn't really sure. Judging from just the cost of the job done plus the models, this is probably more than a Small Claims court case too. Anyways, thank you for answering my question in a respectful way.

I dunno. Spray the base color, base paint the details, quick drybrush the textured bits (e.g. hair / fur / chainmail), and wash -- that's tabletop to me.

The problem with terms like "table top" and "display quality" is they actually have no meaning They mean different things to different people and are very changeable terms.

The only thing that really matters is sample images and to a lesser extent descriptions.

 Ustrello wrote:
LvL 10 painting will get you a golden daemon winning model such as this

You fething bastard. I was eating.

http://www.bluetablestore.com/terms-of-service/painting-levels

 flabluker wrote:
http://www.bluetablestore.com/terms-of-service/painting-levels

Screen capped and saved.

Will this page be taken down? Place ya bets ladies and gentlemen!

Unfortunately for Shawn...

Verviedi wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
LvL 10 painting will get you a golden daemon winning model such as this

You fething bastard. I was eating.

I know it was so beautiful that it stunned you while eating.

RivenSkull wrote:

 flabluker wrote:
http://www.bluetablestore.com/terms-of-service/painting-levels

Screen capped and saved.

Will this page be taken down? Place ya bets ladies and gentlemen!

I will bet a first born son, it will be taken down in the next week week and a half. Not my first born son of course but someones.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Unfortunately for Shawn...

"An error has occurred.

For detailed error information, please see the HTML source code, and contact the forum Administrator."

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Unfortunately for Shawn...

"An error has occurred.

For detailed error information, please see the HTML source code, and contact the forum Administrator."

BTP has obviously hacked me

 Grey Templar wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Unfortunately for Shawn...

"An error has occurred.

For detailed error information, please see the HTML source code, and contact the forum Administrator."

BTP has obviously hacked me

Was it the infamous hacker known as 4chan?

So just read the level guide and found this....

Level 5- Impressive Hero Standard
Wow effects around focal points
No Slops
5 levels of highlight/shading

So does that mean levels 4 and below HAVE slops?

And by slops do they mean for example brown belt paint hitting a blue tunic behind it?

Because if so then WOW! Just WOW, this is a professional painting service that cannot colour in between the lines until you go for the higher levels? ALL PAINT SHOULD BE ON WHERE IT SHOULD BE!!!! It's not rocket science

Hey Hey Blue Table Fans... My 5 year old can colour between the lines

Oh and another thing whilst I'm on my soap box Shawn if you're reading this... "Wow effects around focal points" and "Wow effects on multiple fields" are meant to mean... "Wow look at that, that's so cool" not "Wow I can't believe they missed out painting a skull on a level 6 model, that's supposed to have, Wow effects on multiple fields, Free hand possible, Object source lighting, Dynamic basing, 6 levels of highlight/shadow"

If there's only 4 levels of painting, why can't they just be called 1-4? BTP is stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Never mind. keep the original unseen level 1. Call it Level Pyeatt.

 Flippa wrote:
So just read the level guide and found this....

Level 5- Impressive Hero Standard
Wow effects around focal points
No Slops
5 levels of highlight/shading

So does that mean levels 4 and below HAVE slops?

And by slops do they mean for example brown belt paint hitting a blue tunic behind it?

Because if so then WOW! Just WOW, this is a professional painting service that cannot colour in between the lines until you go for the higher levels? ALL PAINT SHOULD BE ON WHERE IT SHOULD BE!!!! It's not rocket science

Hey Hey Blue Table Fans... My 5 year old can colour between the lines

Oh and another thing whilst I'm on my soap box Shawn if you're reading this... "Wow effects around focal points" and "Wow effects on multiple fields" are meant to mean... "Wow look at that, that's so cool" not "Wow I can't believe they missed out painting a skull on a level 6 model, that's supposed to have, Wow effects on multiple fields, Free hand possible, Object source lighting, Dynamic basing, 6 levels of highlight/shadow"

saved. Notice even level 3 says all details picked out. Hence i did not even get level 3.

 tenebre wrote:
saved. Notice even level 3 says all details picked out. Hence i did not even get level 3.

Actually it says "essential details picked out" for level 3. Goodness knows what "essential" means. Level 4 says "all details picked out" and "4 levels of highlight/shadow", so you definitely didn't get a level 4 that you paid for.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 tenebre wrote:
saved. Notice even level 3 says all details picked out. Hence i did not even get level 3.

Actually it says "essential details picked out" for level 3. Goodness knows what "essential" means. Level 4 says "all details picked out" and "4 levels of highlight/shadow", so you definitely didn't get a level 4 that you paid for.

Eyes, mouth, teeth? haha those have to be considered essential right??????

 tenebre wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 tenebre wrote:
saved. Notice even level 3 says all details picked out. Hence i did not even get level 3.

Actually it says "essential details picked out" for level 3. Goodness knows what "essential" means. Level 4 says "all details picked out" and "4 levels of highlight/shadow", so you definitely didn't get a level 4 that you paid for.

Eyes, mouth, teeth? haha those have to be considered essential right??????

This is why descriptions need to be a bit more detailed and/or accompanied by lots of pics. I don't consider eyes essential for your average 28mm infantry model, I consider eyes to be a luxury for models I intend to spend a bit of extra time painting. For a 28mm monster though, yeah, I consider eyes essential.

Though on that page, it's hard to see but if you zoom in on the level 3 elves, you can see their eyes ARE painted (though I can't tell if they're painted well or not, I just zoomed the picture using GIMP and can see there's clearly another colour where the eyes should be).

So I'd save those images on that page in case BTP decides to pull it. Unfortunately they're small which makes it hard to pick out details, but you could use it in court to show that level 3 models have their eyes painted in BTP's own advertising.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 tenebre wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 tenebre wrote:
saved. Notice even level 3 says all details picked out. Hence i did not even get level 3.

Actually it says "essential details picked out" for level 3. Goodness knows what "essential" means. Level 4 says "all details picked out" and "4 levels of highlight/shadow", so you definitely didn't get a level 4 that you paid for.

Eyes, mouth, teeth? haha those have to be considered essential right??????

This is why descriptions need to be a bit more detailed and/or accompanied by lots of pics. I don't consider eyes essential for your average 28mm infantry model, I consider eyes to be a luxury for models I intend to spend a bit of extra time painting. For a 28mm monster though, yeah, I consider eyes essential.

Though on that page, it's hard to see but if you zoom in on the level 3 elves, you can see their eyes ARE painted (though I can't tell if they're painted well or not, I just zoomed the picture using GIMP and can see there's clearly another colour where the eyes should be).

So I'd save those images on that page in case BTP decides to pull it. Unfortunately they're small which makes it hard to pick out details, but you could use it in court to show that level 3 models have their eyes painted in BTP's own advertising.

i disagree 100% even at level 2, or lowest tabletop standard, i would expect a skeleton to have black holes for eyes while his skull in bone color. Whereas on my level 4+ entire upper part of model was all one color,

 flabluker wrote:
http://www.bluetablestore.com/terms-of-service/painting-levels

That SW Dread is level 6?! There is decal shine on the right (our left) shoulder pad FFS. 0/10, would not purge with.

In regards to the scale, i quite honestly don't find those 1 to 10 or 1 to what ever scales all that useful. They don't objectively describe what is to be done with the miniatures.

As a potential client i would much rather be charged by Technics/effects employed.

Say dry brushing, hard edging, washes, blending, inking, recessing, freehanding. and so on.

 Pete Melvin wrote:

 flabluker wrote:
http://www.bluetablestore.com/terms-of-service/painting-levels

That SW Dread is level 6?! There is decal shine on the right (our left) shoulder pad FFS. 0/10, would not purge with.

Can people still see the pictures here? I know I can't.

Not sure if this has been posted. Project was meant to cover lvl 3 to 5.




Very apt youtube comment.

MrMalorian3 days ago

One of the best things that has come from these BTG videos is the realization of the VERY simple techniques they use. With that in mind it really begs the question of "Why aren't you doing this yourself?"

Anyone can prime and drybrush, and in spending a weekend on it you save yourself thousands of dollars.

Or indeed painting within the lines of the models... No commission painter should ever have paint slops. Nor should they ever treat this as a bonus feature.

It's totally weird for me cause Im always painting eyes on minis even on base standard miniatures. If you know how to do that vry good and you have a lot of experience it's rly easy and shouldn't take more than 1-2 minutes to do that perfect. Talking that you need more time to do that is bullsheeet.
Reason why I'm doing that with my people is that we know that miniature face and base is smth around 80% of minis overlook. If you're doing it right then whole miniature looks way more better just cause of this little parts. Of course at higher standard of painting you can spend more time on face and eyes making more reflex in eye using different colours not only white and black. Another reason is that that I want to make my client happy and hope he'll come back later with more miniatures. It's normal for company. If I need do smth well for my client happiness its worth a lot more than only few pennys.
Cheers

 Medium of Death wrote:

 Pete Melvin wrote:

 flabluker wrote:
http://www.bluetablestore.com/terms-of-service/painting-levels

That SW Dread is level 6?! There is decal shine on the right (our left) shoulder pad FFS. 0/10, would not purge with.

Can people still see the pictures here? I know I can't.

yeah I can see it no probs

Man, I can charge what BTP does for my standard and probably make good money. XD

That's awful.

You could make money by undercutting them by 20% and just being careful.

Verviedi wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
LvL 10 painting will get you a golden daemon winning model such as this

You fething bastard. I was eating.

I spat tea out!