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Improvised armour that provides the same protection as Carapace, the heaviest non-powered armour in the game? I can't see it, somehow.

If it's a HoW attack, does it roll to hit? I can't remember.

Hammer of Wrath does indeed hit automatically -- which is appropriate for the Exterminator because it's a mini-template weapon.

The 4+ for Ironhides should be fluffed as, well, iron hides rather than armour. Now there may be a better way to depict that, eg FNP. They already have +1 Toughness compared to regular Abhumans.

Palatine upgrades: I had the brainstorm that I should make six specialties, one for each of the founding Saints of the Order. This keeps the number manageable (compared to 9 options for the Canoness's Records of Service), especially since some of these replace what were originally wargear options. Rough ideas so far:

Daughter of Dominica (+15 pts): Dominica was the founder and first commander of the Order. This Palatine has special training and communications gear to improve Sororitas command & control: +1 to Reserve rolls.

Daughter of Katharine (? pts): Fiery Katharine was the closest to Dominica, serving as her second-in-command and shield-bearer. This Palatine is trained and dedicated to defend her superiors: She automatically succeeds in Glorious Intervention and gains Preferred Enemy in challenges.

Daughter of Silvana (15 pts): Silvana was the most selfless of the founders and the first to be martyred. This Palatine is likewise a paragon of purity, even among Sisters, and is considered a living link to the God-Emperor: She carries a Book of Acts. [See Special Issue Wargear in the first post]

Daughter of Lucia (20 pts?): Lucia was the most penitent of the founders, always remorseful for what the Sisterhood had done as Vandire's Brides of the Emperor. This Palatine follows in that tradition of penitential piety: She gains the War Hymns special rule.

Daughter of Mina (15 pts): Mina was the most impetuously aggressive of the Six Saints. This Palatine has the temperament and training to lead high-risk maneuvers: She gains Scout and Acute Senses.

Daughter of Arabella (15 pts): Arabella was the coolest and most logical of the founders, especially revered by heavy weapons Sisters. This Palatine has the clear head and coms gear required to call in supporting fire from Imperial Guard artillery or Navy starships, compensating for the Sisterhood's lack of long-range artillery. She may make a shooting attack with the following profile: Range - Infinite; S - 9; AP - 3; Type - Ordnance 1, Barrage, Large Blast

Why is Palatine a better Master of Ordnance than the Master of Ordnance? Master of Ordnance scatters on 3D6

Why can the sisters call on Imperial Guard Artillery? They haven't been able to do that since 3rd Inquisitorial Requisitioning rules and Allies rules have made those obsolete.

I honestly just forgot the scatter on 3D6 thing. But I think there might be a place for an indirect fire attack that doesn't require an allies tax. Of course, the Imperium doesn't seem that big on inter-service cooperation....

There's also no disincentive to just parking her in the corner and raining down artillery barrages. It's not a very fluffy role for the Palatine to never see combat and play arm-chair commander while you essentially play missile command with her.

Indeed. In much respect, it would feel very much out of character for anyone in the Sororitas leadership to take a backseat role in battle. Perhaps something from the Frateris?

Good point, guys. Frankly I wouldn't trust the Frateris to call for pizza, let alone artillery support, so I may just leave that one out. If a Sisters player wants Guard artillery support, let her take an IG Allied Detachment with a Company Command Squad, Master of Ordnance, & a single veteran squad to protect them -- plus maybe an on-board Basilisk. That's not an inordinate tax.

The more I think about it, the less I think I need this kind of customization for Palatines: they're already got a lot of variety in their wargear.

I just might make up some new wargear item they can take which represents coms gear and allows Reserve roll manipulation, because I really like armies to have that option.

Also I like the Palatine-as-bodyguard/champion role; that's the only one that might require a special rule ("rerolls failed glorious intervention"), but honestly the basic Palatine with Praesidium Protectiva soaks up Challenges on her Canoness's behalf pretty well already.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: The Reserves roll manipulation might actually fit better as an upgrade to a member of the Sororitas Command Squad, similar to a Hospitaller or Dialogus: a "Sister Signaler" who trades her bolter for coms gear.

Almost done! I wrote up the Sister Signaler (reserve roll manipulation) and a simple Dominica Pattern Drop Pod (because everyone who wants pods was going to ally in Space Wolves or Blood Angels to get them,and we can't have THAT).

DOMINICA PATTERN DROP POD: 40 points (Fast Attack)
A sanctified version of the Astartes stand-by
Drop Pod: BS:4 Armour 12/12/12 HP:3 Sv:6++


***

SORORITAS COMMAND SQUAD

One Celestian may be upgraded to a Sister Signaler, replacing her Boltgun with a Vox Dei (see below): 15 points

Vox Dei
This sanctified communications system connects the Sister Signaler with far-flung Sororitas forces, Ecclesiarchy ships in orbit, and even secular arms of the Imperium such as the Guard. With it, she can coordinate the swift arrival of friendly reserves or call down bombardments to disrupt the enemy's.
Each Sister Signaler may take a Leadership test at the beginning of your turn, before any Reserve rolls are made. For each Signaler who succeeds, you may either add +1 to your own Reserve rolls this turn or force your opponent to subtract one from his Reserve rolls (but he will automatically pass on any rolls of 6). If you have more than one Sister Signaler, all modifiers are cumulative.


Design Notes: Basically makes one Celestian into an Officer of the Fleet, with a slight discount to the IG price because you're not adding a new body to the command squad.

Why would the Drop Pod have the Shield of Faith rule? It has no pilot.

Good question. But why does the Marine drop pod have a BS:4 Storm Bolter, since it doesn't have a pilot either.... ? [headasplode] Maybe the Astartes drop pod is using Power of the Machine Spirit to fire (in fluff terms) even though it doesn't have the POTMS rule (in crunch terms)? In that case, the Sororitas version should either have no weapon OR a BS:2 weapon manned by a servitor, since the Ecclesiarchy isn't cool with uppity machine spirits.

Actually, it's easier to justify Shield of Faith: The drop pod had 10 Sisters in it, it's probably glowing with their spiritual mojo at least while they're in it and perhaps residually for some time after...

 SisterSydney wrote:
Good question. But why does the Marine drop pod have a BS:4 Storm Bolter, since it doesn't have a pilot either.... ? [headasplode] Maybe the Astartes drop pod is using Power of the Machine Spirit to fire (in fluff terms) even though it doesn't have the POTMS rule (in crunch terms)? In that case, the Sororitas version should either have no weapon OR a BS:2 weapon manned by a servitor, since the Ecclesiarchy isn't cool with uppity machine spirits.

Actually, it's easier to justify Shield of Faith: The drop pod had 10 Sisters in it, it's probably glowing with their spiritual mojo at least while they're in it and perhaps residually for some time after...

Or they have light energy shields they don't share with the rest of the Imperium (part of the explanation why their power armour isn't as bulky but still provides the same save?). Take your pick. (Disclaimer: This is half-assed speculation and could easily be discarded without losing much or offending me)

The Shield of Faith on vehicles is explicitly from the pilot of the vehicle. Seriously, once they're out of the drop pod (which is right after they land) keeping the Shield of Faith on it is honestly no good.

Drop it as a rule, it's violating established lore for a cheap buff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
Good question. But why does the Marine drop pod have a BS:4 Storm Bolter, since it doesn't have a pilot either.... ? [headasplode] Maybe the Astartes drop pod is using Power of the Machine Spirit to fire (in fluff terms) even though it doesn't have the POTMS rule (in crunch terms)? In that case, the Sororitas version should either have no weapon OR a BS:2 weapon manned by a servitor, since the Ecclesiarchy isn't cool with uppity machine spirits.

Actually, it's easier to justify Shield of Faith: The drop pod had 10 Sisters in it, it's probably glowing with their spiritual mojo at least while they're in it and perhaps residually for some time after...

Or they have light energy shields they don't share with the rest of the Imperium (part of the explanation why their power armour isn't as bulky but still provides the same save?). Take your pick. (Disclaimer: This is half-assed speculation and could easily be discarded without losing much or offending me)

Sisters armor isn't as bulky because it's just servos and armor plating, and none of the 800+ other subsystems the Marine armor has (like the food/drug injector). Plus the wearer of the armor isn't as bulky as a Marine is either, making it smaller overall too.

Plus Marines supposedly have some system to recycle their.... poop into edible paste. (It tastes like gak, because it IS gak).

Hrrmm. Maybe Shield of Faith on the drop pod only while the passengers are embarked? Arguably overcomplicated.

And instead of the weapon firing at BS:4, have no weapon but the option to upgrade to a servitor-brain-in-a-jar firing something at BS:2?

Passengers auto-disembark from drop pods so such a Shield of Faith rule would be pointless.

Frankly a lower BS on the gun wouldn't bother my but GW seems to think it's more appropriate to have BS4 for some reason.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Passengers auto-disembark from drop pods so such a Shield of Faith rule would be pointless.

Frankly a lower BS on the gun wouldn't bother my but GW seems to think it's more appropriate to have BS4 for some reason.

Why would it be pointless? You still have the Drop Pod hanging out on the field shooting people and holding objectives.

Not against Tau or anyone using a Quad Cannon. Interceptor is a thing you know.

I'm with Sister Sidney about the Drop Pod having Residual (Shield of) Faith, even if only for rules simplicity.

On the other hand, my Deathwind Drop Pod lacks Shield of Faith because it never transports any Sisters.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Passengers auto-disembark from drop pods so such a Shield of Faith rule would be pointless.

Frankly a lower BS on the gun wouldn't bother my but GW seems to think it's more appropriate to have BS4 for some reason.

Why would it be pointless? You still have the Drop Pod hanging out on the field shooting people and holding objectives.

If the rule stops conferring the shield when they disembark and they disembark upon landing then it would never benefit from the rule, making it pointless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 J3f wrote:
Not against Tau or anyone using a Quad Cannon. Interceptor is a thing you know.

I'm with Sister Sidney about the Drop Pod having Residual (Shield of) Faith, even if only for rules simplicity.

I'm against it because unless Sisters Drop Pods have Sisters pilots it really doesn't fit the lore. By that logic the Aquila Lander would get Shield of Faith for Sisters being embarked.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Passengers auto-disembark from drop pods so such a Shield of Faith rule would be pointless.

Frankly a lower BS on the gun wouldn't bother my but GW seems to think it's more appropriate to have BS4 for some reason.

Why would it be pointless? You still have the Drop Pod hanging out on the field shooting people and holding objectives.

If the rule stops conferring the shield when they disembark and they disembark upon landing then it would never benefit from the rule, making it pointless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 J3f wrote:
Not against Tau or anyone using a Quad Cannon. Interceptor is a thing you know.

I'm with Sister Sidney about the Drop Pod having Residual (Shield of) Faith, even if only for rules simplicity.

I'm against it because unless Sisters Drop Pods have Sisters pilots it really doesn't fit the lore. By that logic the Aquila Lander would get Shield of Faith for Sisters being embarked.

Wait, are we suggesting the Drop Pod itself get the Shield of Faith rule or not?

Also why wouldn't you just have an Aquila piloted by Sisters? They're the Imperium's shuttles for ferrying the elite around, it's like having the white three-winged shuttles for flying dignitaries around in the Empire in Star Wars. I'd expect Canonesses to have their own Aquilas with their own Sororitas crew. It's like expecting nobility to have a chauffeur.

Why wouldn't the Drop Pod have Shield of Faith. It's iconic of Sisters of Battle vehicles. Currently all Sisters of Battle Vehicles have Shield of Faith.

The Aquila Lander isn't something in the Sisters' Fleet, it's an Imperial Navy Vehicle. It doesn't receive the constant prayer and maintenance that a Sororitas vehicle does.

 J3f wrote:
Why wouldn't the Drop Pod have Shield of Faith. It's iconic of Sisters of Battle vehicles. Currently all Sisters of Battle Vehicles have Shield of Faith.

The Aquila Lander isn't something in the Sisters' Fleet, it's an Imperial Navy Vehicle. It doesn't receive the constant prayer and maintenance that a Sororitas vehicle does.

I was under the impression everyone maintained their own. It's a limo/taxi for your leaders, it's not actually supposed to be a combat vehicle.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Passengers auto-disembark from drop pods so such a Shield of Faith rule would be pointless.

Frankly a lower BS on the gun wouldn't bother my but GW seems to think it's more appropriate to have BS4 for some reason.

Why would it be pointless? You still have the Drop Pod hanging out on the field shooting people and holding objectives.

If the rule stops conferring the shield when they disembark and they disembark upon landing then it would never benefit from the rule, making it pointless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 J3f wrote:
Not against Tau or anyone using a Quad Cannon. Interceptor is a thing you know.

I'm with Sister Sidney about the Drop Pod having Residual (Shield of) Faith, even if only for rules simplicity.

I'm against it because unless Sisters Drop Pods have Sisters pilots it really doesn't fit the lore. By that logic the Aquila Lander would get Shield of Faith for Sisters being embarked.

Wait, are we suggesting the Drop Pod itself get the Shield of Faith rule or not?

Also why wouldn't you just have an Aquila piloted by Sisters? They're the Imperium's shuttles for ferrying the elite around, it's like having the white three-winged shuttles for flying dignitaries around in the Empire in Star Wars. I'd expect Canonesses to have their own Aquilas with their own Sororitas crew. It's like expecting nobility to have a chauffeur.

I'm saying it shouldn't have it. And the Aquila is piloted by the Imperial Navy, not the Sisters. The Sisters have no air support of their own (unless GW recons it).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 J3f wrote:
Why wouldn't the Drop Pod have Shield of Faith. It's iconic of Sisters of Battle vehicles. Currently all Sisters of Battle Vehicles have Shield of Faith.

And said Shield is from the vehicle's pilot. Drop Pods have no pilot. Thus no shield.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
<LONG>

I'm saying it shouldn't have it. And the Aquila is piloted by the Imperial Navy, not the Sisters. The Sisters have no air support of their own (unless GW recons it).

The Aquila isn't air support. It's a limo. That sometimes has a gun taped to it. It seems like a loophole that an army based on a loophole in the first place (No "Men under arms"!) would leap at.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
<LONG>

I'm saying it shouldn't have it. And the Aquila is piloted by the Imperial Navy, not the Sisters. The Sisters have no air support of their own (unless GW recons it).

The Aquila isn't air support. It's a limo. That sometimes has a gun taped to it. It seems like a loophole that an army based on a loophole in the first place (No "Men under arms"!) would leap at.

No, the Aquila has a gun mounted on it standard while the Arvus has the gun strapped on with string, tape and hope.

Okay, I'm convinced the Dominica drop pod shouldn't have Shield of Faith. I'm increasingly thinking it should default to no weapon (-5 points) with an option to buy a servitor-controlled heavy flamer (BS:2 but who cares with a template?). Sound good?

And any comments on the Sister Signaler (the other thing in that post with the drop pod?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: Aquila is a lovely model, terrible rules. I am not trying to salvage it here.

Taking away the Storm Bolter doesn't do enough to justify dropping the price by 5 points. The Drop Pod is still a drop pod and fulfills it's primary purpose. The Storm Bolters also mounted on an immobile vehicle so the Assault 2 profile will never be fully utilized.

The Sister Signaler doesn't add much in my opinion.

As for the Aquila Lander, I've made my own rules revisions for it here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/617457.page#7257607

Reserves manipulation is AWESOME. And technically a Storm Bolter costs 5 points....

But your Aquila is pretty cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S.: On the Palatines-with-options thing, I gave them back the option to take a War Hymnal and added the option to take Chirurgeon's Tools for 20 points (scaling up the cost from a Hospitaller for an Independent Character).

Weird rules are weird. Anyway, here's what I'm pretty sure I'm sticking with for the drop pod:

DOMINICA PATTERN DROP POD: 40 points (Fast Attack)
A sanctified version of the Astartes stand-by
Drop Pod: BS:2 Armour 12/12/12 HP:3

Unit Type: Vehicle (Open-topped, Transport)
Unit Composition: 1 Drop Pod

Wargear: heavy flamer

Special Rules: Drop Pod Assault; Immobile; Inertial Guidance System*
* See Codex:Space Marines for these rules.

Flower of Flame:
Dominica-pattern drop pods often have flamer pipes built into the insides of their doors. When the pod lands and opens, it unfolds like a flower of purifying flame.
If a Dominica-pattern drop pod is armed with a heavy flamer, then, when firing, you may place the narrow end of the template in context with any part of the model.


Transport Capacity: 10 models or 1 Penitent Engine.

A Dominica Pattern Drop Pod is a Dedicated Transport option for a Sororitas Command Squad or a Celestian Squad.

Options
May replace its heavy flamer with a Storm Bolter or Multi-Melta: free

The Eccesiarchy has its own version of the standard Astartes drop pod, one stripped of the suspiciously advanced Machine Spirit and fitted instead with a thoroughly purified heretic as a gun servitor.



Design notes:
A standard Marine drop pod with BS:2 because the Ecclesiarchy don't trust no fancy machine spirits, they got a heretic's skull wired into the drop pod to do that aimin' stuff. Weapons pricing is standard (replacing a 5-pt Storm Bolter w/ a 10-pt Heavy Flamer). The "Flower of Flame" special rule makes up for the weird positioning of a normal Drop Pod's weapon. No discount for BS:2 because the main weapon doesn't care about rolling to hit.
No locator beacons because (a) Sisters aren't as specialized in precision drop as the Marines are -- they shouldn't get all the drop goodness of the Astartes -- and (b) I didn't want to add a yet another new wargear item.

Heavy Flamers should be 10 because it's an 8" template from the gun (which is in the center of the model). Unless you give it torrent it can't hit anything that is standing too far away. If you give it Torrent then 15 would be more on target.