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 Polonius wrote:
I feel that its good to be aware of what GW is doing to the hobby, and I'm no apologist. Far from it, I'm a pretty typical GW burn out.

That said, there's a faint whiff of pointless awareness raising here. Sure, it's good to realize that GW's policies hurt others, and might affect you. so what?

As someone in a similar mental place, why worry? It really doesn't affect me one way or another. I own a lifetime worth of GW product that I can play with.

I think the real question is whether I start to sell off any portion of the pile.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I feel that its good to be aware of what GW is doing to the hobby, and I'm no apologist. Far from it, I'm a pretty typical GW burn out.

That said, there's a faint whiff of pointless awareness raising here. Sure, it's good to realize that GW's policies hurt others, and might affect you. so what?

As someone in a similar mental place, why worry? It really doesn't affect me one way or another. I own a lifetime worth of GW product that I can play with.

I think the real question is whether I start to sell off any portion of the pile.

Oh, I'm not worried. I'm just seeing some exhorations of moral outrage, and terms like "good of the community" tossed around, and I hope nobody feels bad about enjoying their hobby purchases, no matter how ill advised or over costed.

And I cleared out the bulk of my unpainted GW stuff in the last few years, and even a lot of painted stuff. I kept my IG, and whatever unpainted Praetorians I have, if only because they were a PITA to collect and I don't want to play the games necessary to sell them for a good price. With them came some Grey Knights, that were allies back in 3rd, a draigowing in 5th, and are now just a pile of lead. I also have some Preheresy Emp. Children that I'm painting up as an exercise, but I doubt I'll ever play with it.

I still buy HH stuff and some 40k space marine crap. I mostly play Warmachine, X-wing and Bolt Action these days but I'll still collect Space Marine stuff. I don't know, I guess I'm a sucker for the Emperor's finest.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I feel that its good to be aware of what GW is doing to the hobby, and I'm no apologist. Far from it, I'm a pretty typical GW burn out.

That said, there's a faint whiff of pointless awareness raising here. Sure, it's good to realize that GW's policies hurt others, and might affect you. so what?

As someone in a similar mental place, why worry? It really doesn't affect me one way or another. I own a lifetime worth of GW product that I can play with.

I think the real question is whether I start to sell off any portion of the pile.

Do you play? (genuine question)
If so, how?
At the store?
In someone's house with a group of friends? (then it probably won't affect you.)
If you rely on a store community and/or pick up games, it really will affect you, regardless of how many models you have. When you have no one to play with the models won't be worth much.
If you're a hobbyist and just by to paint, convert, whatever? Your supply is finite and if you ever want anything, it'll have to be from E-bay. And there won't be anything new. So, if you love GW minis, this will affect you eventually. If you just move on to other companies' stuff, then it probably won't bother you much.
Worst case scenario, granted, but that's the gist of the argument being presented.

I don't purchase anything that comes in PDF form. This year I bought enough to run formations with my Eldar and Necrons (though I recognize the cash grab element here, I enjoy the difference in army construction). Last year I spent $0 on GW, and picked up some recast stuff. When I buy from GW it feels like a pop on the chin - when I buy from Hawk it feels like a high five.

And of course, I never buy direct (unless required). 20% off is necessary to make this hobby make sense.

 Azreal13 wrote:
It is a well trodden path that comparing GW to non-wargaming products is fallacious. (And I think houses is a first!)

Don't compare prices now to prices then, compare prices now to prices now. There's plenty of people producing HIPs kits that are so much cheaper for an equivalent product it should embarrass GW as the market incumbent.

You are assuming that all plastic models are equivalent to each other in desirability to the customer. That's like saying every movie is equally desirable to the person watching the movie. To give an analogy, if I thought Avengers: Age of Ultron for $20 at an IMAX theatre and $10 for popcorn and drink was too expensive, my alternative would not be to go watch Insidious for $5 less. It would be to do something different altogether. Miniatures and models are not commodities, no matter how much you want them to be. To me, tacticals, ASM, kabalites, and eisenkern are different, not an equivalent commodity where if one is too expensive I'll be just as happy if I buy the other.

Does it make sense that 10 kabalites cost about half the price of 5 assault marines? Who knows, but what do I care? if what I really want is 5 assault marines, what the heck am I going to do with 20 eisenkern or 10 kabalites?

Also, I think that comparing the cost of hobby to the cost of other entertainment is perfectly legitimate. Because instead of building models, I could be doing something else. But if between all my entertainment options, hobby is by far the cheapest, GW or otherwise, then suddenly GW isn't expensive.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Say what you like about where the prices are, they're substantially above where they could, even should, be.

The right price for a product is the price that generates the highest gross profit for the company and brings the highest return to its stakeholders. Depending on a specific company's needs, it could be short, medium, or long term profits. Do you disagree with this fundamental principle of capitalism?

I'm not saying that Games Workshop is doing a good or poor job of this. I am saying that it's not GW's job to make a product affordable for any particular demographic, any more than it is for Apple to make cheap iPhones. A gaming (or other) company's job is not to be a force of good, or to make entertainment accessible to all. They make widgets and sell them for profit, no different than any other company.

I think there are two types of people in the "no" camp. There are those who genuinely don't like GW products, whether because of fatigue, dislike of the company, or whatever. They should find another game/hobby/activity.

Then, there are those who actually like GW products, but can't afford them, or think they're too expensive, or just don't like the company. They think that somehow, if gamers and hobbyists would just unite in solidarity and boycott GW, GW would understand the error of its ways, and write a game and release it at a price and cadence more to their liking. I think this is a total waste of time, and if you're depriving yourself of happiness to try to get a 30+ year company to change tracks on what it's done for 30+ years, the person you're hurting most is yourself.

On occasion, boycotts do work. But they are against companies that do horribly offensive things to a plurality of people, like being cruel to animals, exploit child labour, devastate the environment, or represent bigoted or hateful positions. Boycotts never work against companies that just produce products that are too expensive, and they never work against companies that just make products that a demographic doesn't like -- though the market will work fine to reward or punish the company that caters to too small a niche. For example, an effort to boycott Cartier because their watches are too expensive would be ignored by anyone who could actually afford and wanted a Cartier.

The cold hard truth today is that GW caters to a gamer/hobbyist demographic by its choice. I might sound like an ass for saying it, but if you can't afford GW product or can afford it but don't see the value in it, GW has chosen to exclude you as a customer. I mean, seriously, someone who is pricing the product said, "the customers we want will pay no less than $4 per model, and we don't want them if they won't pay that". GW also seemingly has no interest in appealing to customers who don't want to build large model collections who are very price conscious. I think they believe catering to the gamer who just wants to buy 30 models and play a game as a waste of time. Not that they wouldn't be happy to have that customer, just that they wouldn't do anything in particular to make them happy.

If GW excludes you because you're not in their target niche (what you want to play, how you want to hobby, how much you earn, whatever), you shouldn't give them your hard-earned cash. But trying to convince someone who is in their target audience that buying GW is a bad idea is as pointless as trying to convince GW to lower their prices. The best you can do is to vote with your wallet, and at some point, if GW wants to court you as a customer, you'll know about it. Of course, you might just give them the middle finger at that point!

Ok, I was going to read back and see what every one else has said but after a page of arguing I got bored.

To answer the original question, yes. I do buy GW minis but very rarely direct from GW themselves. I usually only buy from discount websites that offer around 25% off, which make the prices fairly reasonable.

Did anyone else see the GW web store survey?

 MWHistorian wrote:
If you're a hobbyist and just by to paint, convert, whatever? Your supply is finite and if you ever want anything, it'll have to be from E-bay. And there won't be anything new. So, if you love GW minis, this will affect you eventually. If you just move on to other companies' stuff, then it probably won't bother you much.
Worst case scenario, granted, but that's the gist of the argument being presented.

I would have to definitely reconsider 40k as a primary hobby interest if GW stopped making new minis (or went out of business). Somehow, as much as I know some people would like to see this happen, I don't see this on the horizon

On the other hand, if GW ever went out of business, I'd be sorely torn between keeping and selling my unpainted collection on E-Bay at the ridiculous prices BNIB would then demand. Although I love hobby, there ARE other things I love to do too, and as much a value as I place on plastic kits, it's not infinite

One thing is for sure, though. If GW were to go out of business, none of the companies who produce miniatures would interest me enough to make it a primary hobby. Unless someone stepped up to the plate in creating a large model-count game, and rapidly released models I liked, I would probably eventually spend my time on something else (other than hobby/wargaming).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orrus wrote:
I do buy GW minis but very rarely direct from GW themselves. I usually only buy from discount websites that offer around 25% off, which make the prices fairly reasonable.

Did anyone else see the GW web store survey?

Indeed, me too. Yes, the web survey has been there for a long time.

Polonius wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
As someone in a similar mental place, why worry? It really doesn't affect me one way or another. I own a lifetime worth of GW product that I can play with.

I think the real question is whether I start to sell off any portion of the pile.

Oh, I'm not worried. I'm just seeing some exhorations of moral outrage, and terms like "good of the community" tossed around, and I hope nobody feels bad about enjoying their hobby purchases, no matter how ill advised or over costed.

And I cleared out the bulk of my unpainted GW stuff in the last few years, and even a lot of painted stuff. I kept my IG, and whatever unpainted Praetorians I have, if only because they were a PITA to collect and I don't want to play the games necessary to sell them for a good price. With them came some Grey Knights, that were allies back in 3rd, a draigowing in 5th, and are now just a pile of lead. I also have some Preheresy Emp. Children that I'm painting up as an exercise, but I doubt I'll ever play with it.

OK, got it. Yeah, that stuff seems a bit childish and immature to me. But if they feel better after venting a bit, eh.

Congrats, I think that's really healthy. I'm definitely keeping most of the metal, conversions and painted, for the same reasons as you - things that would be very hard to replace, things that have labor investment are things I want to keep. Unbuilt? Yeah, I could see it go and not miss it. I still like the mix of Imperial allies, but you're right that some of them are just things that won't likely hit the table in a long time.
____

MWHistorian wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
As someone in a similar mental place, why worry? It really doesn't affect me one way or another. I own a lifetime worth of GW product that I can play with.

Do you play? (genuine question)
If so, how?
At the store?
In someone's house with a group of friends? (then it probably won't affect you.)
If you rely on a store community and/or pick up games, it really will affect you, regardless of how many models you have. When you have no one to play with the models won't be worth much.
If you're a hobbyist and just by to paint, convert, whatever? Your supply is finite and if you ever want anything, it'll have to be from E-bay. And there won't be anything new. So, if you love GW minis, this will affect you eventually. If you just move on to other companies' stuff, then it probably won't bother you much.
Worst case scenario, granted, but that's the gist of the argument being presented.

I occasionally play 40k with friends at their garages (California doesn't have basements).

The rest of your comment is overblown. People still play older games, and buying cheap from eBay is smart. GW won't collapse - they're too big. Worst case, they get bought out by Hasbro and come back like Warzone.

Haven't bought from GW in well over a year, haven't bought 40k stuff in several.

Probably won't ever buy from GW itself again, but rather eBay and nothing else at this point, plus other companies just do the same kinda stuff for a lower price or with higher quality.

For example if I want an Orc army I can just buy Kings of War stuff for a noticeably lower price, and if I want giant monsters then I can go to Mierce Miniatures for more expensive, but also far higher quality monsters.

Mymearan wrote:
I've always been curious about points inflation complaints (not saying you are complaining, but many are). Why not play games with the same model count as you did in, say, 3rd ed, regardless of how many points they are now? Why keep playing 1850 games instead of going down to 1500, 1250 or whatever? I just can't see why it is a problem unless you play in tournaments a lot.

The problem isn't just the number of models (though more models bogs down the game, and that IS a problem). In current editions of the game, you have far fewer choices for upgrades and equipment for each model. Time was, every sergeant and captain could pick anything they could carry from the armoury, and every squad and vehicle had an assortment of specialized upgrades (grenades, knives, dozer blades, spotlights, etc.). Most of these upgrades now come standard at no cost, or aspects of the game that made them useful have been cut. This removes strategic decision making and reduces the impact of any particular unit. There are far fewer tactical interactions, like when the 3rd Ed IG upgraded infantry units could rearrange themselves in close combat to create layers, slowing the enemy's advance.

Even when you go to a lower point limit, the game is less about properly using equipment choices and more about bringing more models. Especially in the last couple editions, they replaced tactical interactions with more random tables which slow down the game further.

to OP:
I went from buying 400$ a month, to 50-89$ a month. The models are a lot better then they used to be for sure, but I just don not see them at a good value

I still buy GW models.... second hand, on eBay, etc. I don't buy direct from GW, and I buy other stuff from my FLGS.

A product this expensive is still desirable to me, but unless you feel the requirement to support your LGS by accepting to pay full price for it, there's no reason to pay full price unless you absolutely, positively HAVE to have the 'new toy' the second it comes out. Even then, there are plenty of discount shops to choose from - even though GW has taken incredible steps to try to limit those, as well.

I hadn't purchased anything from GW for quite a while, happy to trawl for Ebay stuff

I did buy a couple Eldar flyers when the new Codex hit as I want to try out the formation and ebay prices tend to spike around Codex dates,
didn't buy it from the local GW store as online stores are way cheaper.

Nobody should feel bad for buying or not buying GW products, under the 'geek shall not harm geek' rule, yes some of the prices are a bit steep but if
people want to pay that let them, although there is no harm in pointing out cheaper alternates or even more expensive but better toys to them, it is a hobby,
not the GW hobby (despite what the High Lords of Nottingham may say)

Mymearan wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 rayphoton wrote:

 carlos13th wrote:

 rayphoton wrote:
So based on this forum....

People who still buy are 29

People who did by but now don't are 45


Not as a big difference as I thought there would be...but....still...Gw is not quite the company they once were.

I'll put that no number up to 46 btw

I am a few years younger than either of those but I am in the did buy but don't any more category.

I think I was misunderstood.....I was actually counting the people that said yes I still but vs no I don't buy. Not age.
Looking back..I see the confusion. 29 people in this thread said yes I'll still buy from gw. 46 have said no..I wont anymore.

If this is represetational of the community as a whole..then GW needs to change thier businees practices.

Ah...that makes much more sense.
I wonder how indicative this is of the consumer base as a whole.

Not at all, because that would require a random sample of all GWs consumer base, not a few self-selected individuals who frequent a forum dedicated to gaming.

That random sample of all GW consumers will never happen - way too close to market research.

*EDIT* Any poll on the topic would need to add 'Won't buy new, will buy from eBay' as an option - it would be a popular choice.

The Auld Grump

I speak up because my experience is that buying GW is buying into a deadend. My group of friends got into the hobby at roughly the same time, and there was a variety of events at the local GW. After maybe 2 years, the local GW got downsized due to the infamous 1-employee-1-shop policy they enacted. The employee turn-over was almost monthly, and the local events couldn't be run anymore. As the prices went up, two of my friends with lower income couldn't afford new stuff when 6th edition made flyers supremely dominant. They lost interest, so then it was just two of us and no local scene.

I love 40k, and I love the aesthetic and I love many of GW's sculpts. I even like the older editions. I love the Cities of Death expansion, and I love playing Apocalypse. But save your money where you can because GW's business practices are predatory. They have smashed game balance just to sell models. If your local scene is strong: good, play in it. Emperor knows I'm envious. But be careful when you spend your money.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
GW won't collapse - they're too big. Worst case, they get bought out by Hasbro and come back like Warzone.

Nothing is too big not to collapse, and given their current financial figures they're definitely heading in that direction.

I'd agree that at some point they'll be bought out and the way they are currently going that can only improve things even if it is Hasbro.

Herzlos wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
GW won't collapse - they're too big. Worst case, they get bought out by Hasbro and come back like Warzone.

Nothing is too big not to collapse, and given their current financial figures they're definitely heading in that direction.

I'd agree that at some point they'll be bought out and the way they are currently going that can only improve things even if it is Hasbro.

Yeah Ithe videogames industry for example is littered with companies many though to bit to fail, Atari, Sega for example.

With competition rising all the time and GW's market share shrinking I can definitely see them headed in a similar way.

The video games industry isn't big enough to have companies "to big too fall". Even Nintendo is on a huge decline right now.

Nintendo seem to falter every other generation, but smashes it out 50% of the time.

They just need to make a proper console version of Pokemon and they're laughing forever (how hard is it to make Ocarina meets Pokemon?!).

Either way, Games Workshop.

The prices of fantasy and LOTR/Hobbit seem much more fair than what is charged for 40k. You get a brilliant looking big monster kit for around £30 and units range from £15-£30 (a whole unit of cavalry is less than £20?!).

Unfortunately, I don't play these games, never have as there isn't much of a scene for them here.

But I was an avid 40k player growing up, from second through to fifth edition (mostly 3rd and 4th though - That Necron Codex with limited choices and The Nightbringer was my jam; and IG Traits were great)... But since then, it's not a price creep, it's a price skyrocket.

The same Imperial Guard where you would get 20 in a box is nearly twice the price for just 10 now (without a heavy weapon).

The model quality is very high, and the options included (especially since the GK kits) are fantastic, but the price is just not worth it.

I would love to get some pieces for painting purposes, but cannot justify it at the price GW. I would even consider the game if it was reasonable, but it just isn't.

GW turned me in to a gamer, if it wasn't for them I wouldn't play Warmachine, Malifaux, Bolt Action etc. etc. but they don't value me as a consumer, they don't make financially viable gaming and they don't make quality rules anymore.

Not to mention the fact that so many different TO's interpret the rules in a different way that there is very little consistency, meaning you need to purchase even more products to be competitive.

No wonder people buy from China.

 Sigvatr wrote:
The video games industry isn't big enough to have companies "to big too fall". Even Nintendo is on a huge decline right now.

The video games industry is bigger than Hollywood and worth something like 88 billion dollars a year....

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
The video games industry isn't big enough to have companies "to big too fall". Even Nintendo is on a huge decline right now.

The video games industry is bigger than Hollywood and worth something like 88 billion dollars a year....

True but triple A games are starting to falter for much the same reason the GW has been, not understanding what people want, and becoming ever more risk adverse and as a result just churning out franchises such as 'Brown/Grey Modernish Faceshooter 75' and 'Buggy Jumpy Parkour Stabber Thing 9', combine that which pre-order BS and season passes, charging $X dollars for the game and then trying to flog you the other half of the game as DLC (something GW has embraced with the Codex / Datasheet model) and whilst neither GW or say EA are really a risk some of the seemingly terrible decisions do make you wonder if they like money or not.

Well one difference is that video game companies rely almost completely on market research, to the point of making every AAA game the same stew of identical, safe and in the end very dull least-common-denominator game mechanics (UbiSoft), GW instead does none of that and completely trust their own internal view of how the market works. Neither extreme is really desirable.

Back when I was single, didn't have kids and a mortgage I would just straight up buy an army.... NOW I don't think i Have used cash to buy a model in a long time. Store credit from tournaments seems to be my method of acquiring more models... or trading/buying on here.

The prices are too high for me to justify buying the models vs spending the money to go out with my 2 girls and wife to do family things.

@MWHistorian: if GW goes out of business tomorrow, i would still have enough models to keep me busy painting for the rest of my life...
not that i would like to see that happen, since i am of the opinion that they continue to improve their sculpts year by year...
the thing is, i am not going to worry about the choices that management make, but instead support the good things that i feel the design studio do...
i have no control over the process, so why should i not buy the things that i like???

@tigerstyle (and everyone else): if you are just considering getting some pieces for painting, what is your tipping point???
what is the maximum price you are willing to pay for a mini to paint???
someone brought this up in the price rise thread, i believe, and it is an interesting thought exercise...
for instance, i am more than happy to buy a Studio McVey LE model for painting purposes at £14 (Katya), or a mounted model for £28 (Ruby)...
if the model is appealing, i don't give it a second thought...
the thing is, i am not as excited to paint those models as i am a 40K model, nor am i certain that a painted version is guaranteed to sell like my 40k models do...
so, as Dark Sphere is showing the Ad Mech Tech Priest at £16.50, and i like it much more than any Studio McVey model, the price is well within my comfort zone...
what price is inside your comfort zone, or better yet, what is the max price of your comfort zone for a model just to paint???
the guy asking the question in the other thread said £5, for example...
of course, i love minis so much, that i just buy all three of the models priced out in my example...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
@MWHistorian: if GW goes out of business tomorrow, i would still have enough models to keep me busy painting for the rest of my life...
not that i would like to see that happen, since i am of the opinion that they continue to improve their sculpts year by year...
the thing is, i am not going to worry about the choices that management make, but instead support the good things that i feel the design studio do...
i have no control over the process, so why should i not buy the things that i like???

Not saying that you have to go out and try to change GW.
I'm just saying that you should at least understand why some people are upset by GW's business practices. "It doesn't affect me so there's no problem" is short sighted and blind to the majority of peoples' situations. When some people criticize GW, it's because they want it to get better so it'll be around a long time. As it is, most people don't have an infinite stockpile of models and so GW going out of business would ruin their fun. This is a valid concern and shouldn't be waved away with "not my problem, bro."

At this point, and under the current management, I do not think that GW is likely to recover.

Though I think that the stock dropping is something that Kirby will notice - I am pretty sure that he will be more upset by the reduced value of his stock than he will be at the state of his company that it reflects.

The best that can be hoped for is that Kirby is ousted, and somebody that understands the value of market research and advertising takes his place.

When your management team is singled out by financial news services as examples of how not to do things... it is a sign that there is a problem.

The Auld Grump

 MWHistorian wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
@MWHistorian: if GW goes out of business tomorrow, i would still have enough models to keep me busy painting for the rest of my life...
not that i would like to see that happen, since i am of the opinion that they continue to improve their sculpts year by year...
the thing is, i am not going to worry about the choices that management make, but instead support the good things that i feel the design studio do...
i have no control over the process, so why should i not buy the things that i like???

Not saying that you have to go out and try to change GW.
I'm just saying that you should at least understand why some people are upset by GW's business practices. "It doesn't affect me so there's no problem" is short sighted and blind to the majority of peoples' situations. When some people criticize GW, it's because they want it to get better so it'll be around a long time. As it is, most people don't have an infinite stockpile of models and so GW going out of business would ruin their fun. This is a valid concern and shouldn't be waved away with "not my problem, bro."

i have never once told anybody in this thread, or any other thread, that their stance is wrong...
i understand why others would be upset, and that they see a problem with GW's business practices...
what i don't understand, is why i should share their viewpoint, and have a problem with GW's policies if they don't bother me...
i can only speak as an individual, since i am not reponsible for other people's choices and feelings about GW...
my opinion is neither short-sighted, nor blind to the majority of people's situation...
my opinion is personal to my perspective...
if i don't share the majority's situation, i am not going to get behind them and stop buying the models that i like, just so they can feel vindicated in their decision...
that is not to say that i don't sympathize...

i am not waving anything away, so try and get past that idea...
the question in the title states, "Is anyone still buying GW models?", and i have said yes i am...
if people choose to say no, that is their choice, and they are free to make it...
i have never told anyone that they should support GW, only that i still choose to...

i always try to be reasonable, and understanding to everyone on here, but you seem to think i am just being dismissive...
there must be some disconnect here, because you keep pounding away at this point you want me to acknowledge, when i have already stated a few times in this thread that i get why people are upset, but don't share their viewpoint...
how is that wrong, or short-sighted, or blind???
why should i make their concerns my own, when i don't feel the same way???

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:

@tigerstyle (and everyone else): if you are just considering getting some pieces for painting, what is your tipping point???
what is the maximum price you are willing to pay for a mini to paint???
someone brought this up in the price rise thread, i believe, and it is an interesting thought exercise...
for instance, i am more than happy to buy a Studio McVey LE model for painting purposes at £14 (Katya), or a mounted model for £28 (Ruby)...
if the model is appealing, i don't give it a second thought...
the thing is, i am not as excited to paint those models as i am a 40K model, nor am i certain that a painted version is guaranteed to sell like my 40k models do...
so, as Dark Sphere is showing the Ad Mech Tech Priest at £16.50, and i like it much more than any Studio McVey model, the price is well within my comfort zone...
what price is inside your comfort zone, or better yet, what is the max price of your comfort zone for a model just to paint???
the guy asking the question in the other thread said £5, for example...
of course, i love minis so much, that i just buy all three of the models priced out in my example...

cheers
jah

£14 seems okay for a (limited edition) resin model. The problem with GW's pricing (in my opinion) is that they want even more for infantry size miniatures made from plastic where you can see how the draft angle of the mould makes undercuts impossible and forces them to compromise on form/design language for the sake of cheap mass production. On top of that they make everything in house and have improved their process speed/quality/cost and just demand more money with each new sprue. Other companies manage to improve without saddling the consumer with higher prices as the cost for innovation. How ridiculous would it be if your baker increased their prices just because they had to buy a new oven, that type of cost should be calculated into their budget or they get a loan and pay it off over time but they don't just complain to their customers that the new thing is so expensive and prices need to rise because of that.

I wouldn't even mind the price if it actually went into high end engineering and we would get a product where details are not just lost to the process. Kingdom Death manages plastics that, to some degree, are comparable to resin in their detail. It comes with a cost in that there are less parts on a sprue and who knows what else they have to compromise on to get that stuff done but they manage that without having all the competence and short feedback loop of an in house team. So how come that GW can't do that?

So yes GW has nice designs but they lose quality (in general) during the whole process and when the plastic costs nearly as much as their FW stuff (that I think is actually worth the price because the end products has less of a smooth-ish blobyness from the process in their form language) then I can't tolerate that pricing structure, and especially the excuses of "it's so hard and takes so long to do" when they had decades to improve all of it and everybody else manages to do exactly that and even small companies in the same niche release stuff that is technically (not speaking of the design language) better than GW's. It's as if they live in another world.

The only reason they have high prices is because they can and now as they start to sell less stuff they will need to find some sort of equilibrium. I don't know where that will be or how they could adjust their price structure downwards (if they need or decide to do this) with multiple decades of above average price increases. That could only work if another company bought them and restructured their games completely. I don't know how many people who have left GW behind would actually come back if they were actually to reduce their price because they just don't trust the company, its prices, and rules (even if they love the art direction/games/setting).

@Mario: i get where you are coming from...
i happen to disagree that GW models lack detail...

so you would be cool with buying the Studio McVey Katya LE resin for £14, but would not be ok with buying the GW Tech Priest for £16.50 because you think it lacks detail???
fair enough...
everyone has different taste, and should spend their money how they like...

to look at your Kingdom Death example from my perspective, i have to say that i would much rather paint the Blood Angels Tactical Squad than the Kingdom Death plastic Pin-Up set...
most people that i have seen posting about the BA Tac. Squad have complained that it had too much detail, not a lack of it...
personally, i think they look perfect, and the BA models really make me want to paint them...

from a price standpoint, considering that i think both sets are of equal quality and am only buying the models to paint, the Kingdom Death Pin-Up set is available for $100 and makes 8 models...
the Blood Angels box is available for $34.50 and makes 10 models...
suddenly GW doesn't look like such a bad prospect for a person just buying models to paint...

from a business perspective, where i am selling my painted figures, i know that the GW minis will sell after i paint them, but i am not so sure about the KD minis...
over a decade of experience has shown me that selling non-GW painted models is a much slower process, and brings in less than half as much as a GW model...
personally, i like both sets, and will buy both of them, but can i guarantee you that i will actually paint the Space Marines, while the KD set will just be something in a cool box gathering dust...

cheers
jah