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Alessander wrote:
I'm getting either conflicing pricing or GW is marking up the American prices WAAAAY over the exchange rate.

£95 GBP for the Boxed set, £15 GBP per Index.

but also ticketed as...
$160 USD for the Box Set, $25 USD per Index.

That's a 30% markup!!!!

Can anyone confirm? Is this as bad as Australia's markup?

Not as bad, but still pretty bad. GW has never seemed to understand how exchange rates work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Youn wrote:
Either way, with the ruler in the front and people knowing generally what bases those are in the picture. It wasn't too hard to figure out what they are. The question really is does the base size matter now?



Granted all my old deathguard are on 25mm bases, except my deathguard terminators. Which are on 32s.

I thought I read somewhere that the matched play rules would have official base sizes for each unit. If true, I can't imagine this would matter outside of tournament settings.

Ow that is going to hurt in Cad. Definitely applying the Barak-Mhornar code to this.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
Judging from prior images, the Primaris and Death Guard will be on 32mm, with 40mm characters (and a 50mm Lord and maybe 60mm Drone, whilst the sorcerer sorta looks like a 32mm).

Plagueridden humies probably still 25mm.

Yep. The jump guys seem to be on 40mm as well.

32mm looks a tad small for some of the Primaris. I wonder what the basing rules in this edition will be, as they might look better on 40mm bases.

tneva82 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-death-guard/

Faction Focus: Death Guard

However, the fact that those high-Strength weapons usually do more than 1 Damage now, means you may need to take multiple Disgustingly Resilient rolls.

Umm how that is going to work? Assuming you have W2 troops and l3 ascannons shoots and causes 6, 3 and 2 wounds. You can't roll 11 dices and just count wounds off as that would basically be spilling over. Is it 2 wounds per model=6 wounds total and roll those? So basically you never roll for the overkill? (probably this). Nuttiest would be rolling damage one at a time but as if they went that.

Well as I wrote realized it's probably roll damage, remove overkill wounds and roll then. Can't figure other solution that works fast. Interesting they went opposite of armour save logic there though. Better for defender(more even distribution) but more dice rollling=slower game.

The way I think it works from what we know:
1. Lascannons roll 3 for damage
2. Plague Marine fails its 6+ save
3. Then you roll 3 separate Disgustingly Resilient tests

Either that or that only happens for multiple wound critters.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

The way I think it works from what we know:
1. Lascannons roll 3 for damage
2. Plague Marine fails its 6+ save
3. Then you roll 3 separate Disgustingly Resilient tests

Either that or that only happens for multiple wound critters.

It will be:
1. Lascannon rolls To Wound, successfully
2. Plague Marine fails its 6+ save
3. Lascannon rolls D6 for Damage; rolls a 4
4. Plague Marine must make 4 successful Disgustingly Resilient rolls

tneva82 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-death-guard/

Faction Focus: Death Guard

However, the fact that those high-Strength weapons usually do more than 1 Damage now, means you may need to take multiple Disgustingly Resilient rolls.

Umm how that is going to work? Assuming you have W2 troops and l3 ascannons shoots and causes 6, 3 and 2 wounds. You can't roll 11 dices and just count wounds off as that would basically be spilling over. Is it 2 wounds per model=6 wounds total and roll those? So basically you never roll for the overkill? (probably this). Nuttiest would be rolling damage one at a time but as if they went that.

Well as I wrote realized it's probably roll damage, remove overkill wounds and roll then. Can't figure other solution that works fast. Interesting they went opposite of armour save logic there though. Better for defender(more even distribution) but more dice rollling=slower game.

So my impression would be say a squad shoots 3 lascannons and scores 3 wounds (seems unlikey to me), and causes 6 wounds, 3 wounds and 2 wounds. You would resolve each lascannon separately. So for the 6 wounds choose a model and roll 6 disgustingly resilient rolls. If he fails 2 or more he dies. Then repeat for the 3 wounds and 2 wounds. If they can never score more than 2 wounds against a single model that is a huge nerf to those weapons. You will always have to apply those wounds separately anyway.

I think the interceptors are on the new Kharadron bases.

 Kriswall wrote:


Not as bad, but still pretty bad. GW has never seemed to understand how exchange rates work.

Yes they do. Some people here don't realize that exchange rates fluctuate, apparently.

A two year look back has the rate going from a high of 1.6 to a low of 1.2. That's a 25% variability in the amount of revenue collected in their local currency. Add in the current political uncertainties and there you go.

That's all I say on that, anyway.

The new FNP (disgustingly resilient) is powerful, but weaker than it used to be because now it allows you to ignore Damage instead of Wounds. So a Save is stronger because a Save ignores the whole Wound and all subsequent damage (d3, d6 etc) whereas the FNP allows you an extra save against each damage caused.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).

Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.

Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.

For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.

Sorry to be rude about it but that's honestly your own problem. You need new rules every edition, that's never not been the case. Just think of this as a downpayment. Where in previous editions you might spend 400+ on models that become obselete in 6 months, you now have the rules already (so no further Pay To Pay cost until EVERYBODY has to do so, or maybe free PDF update or something) and can plan to buy only what will be useful and you like. Furthermore, no one wants to spend £75 on rules instead of models but that's been part of the game for years now, its just how it works. Its not extra cost, its expected cost. And new units and armies have always had to do this as well. Literally nothing has changed except they are going to give you the core rules (how the different phases and unit types work) as a PDF for free.

For the second paragraph, I can't follow you. You want the rules for free is what you're saying. That's fair. I want free stuff too, but you gotta pay for stuff bro. The models are one product and the game is another. You aren't getting 2 at once, it just doesn't work that way.

It works that way for more or less every other commercially successful table top game. Rules normally come with the products. GW is an anomaly in that they sell game pieces and the rules to use them separately.

And I agree with his second paragraph. It's the same for me. 7th Edition really encouraged multi-faction armies. GW pushed the allies mechanic and made it super easy to build an army out of a little of this and a little of that. "Forge the Narrative" and take what you want. I built a cross-faction army with a core of Tau Empire, some Necrons I converted to all have Tau antennas sticking out of their heads and some IG/Skitarii to represent Tau Auxillaries. I also have a small force of Iron Warriors. In total, it's about 3000 points worth of painted models. If I want to play with them, I'll need to buy more or less all of the books on day 1. I don't have enough of any one army to play a 'full sized game', so buying the rules for the faction I like best isn't an option.

Yes, we all know we have to spend money to buy new rules from time to time, but it sucks to find out you have to buy ALL of the rules on day 1 to field the kind of army GW has been pushing for several years (multi faction). With AoS, you can literally buy any box off the wall and plunk it down on the table. With 40k 8th, you'll need to be more picky and make sure your particular flavor of Xenos is in the Xenos book you bought. Tau/Orks? One book. Tau/Necrons? Two books. Tau/Necrons/an Inquisitor? Three books.

It would be AWESOME if they could announce pricing so that people would have more than a couple of weeks to prep. I have a good job, so the cost isn't important, but I have friends who won't easily absorb a potentially $100-200 hit just to get the rules to play their existing armies. How much are the Index books going to cost? How much is the hardback rule book by itself? Rumors are all well and good, but I want actual GW USD retail pricing. Rumored GBP pricing isn't useful.

Multi-faction has changed. We know to put multiple factions inside of a single FOC they need to share keywords. We have no word on how multiple detachments work, or if you can mix keywords between detachments (like throwing Guard into a GSC list despite the lack of shared keywords).

So...

you bought multiple factions, with multiple codexes, and are now unhappy that you will still have to buy multiple Codexes? Nothing's changed except the Codexes are cheaper and cover multiple armies.

And again, you painted yourself into a corner. You bought 4 cars and now are mad that you have to pay insurance and MOT on all of them. Of course GW are going to encourage you to buy multiple armies, its more money for them.

As I previously said as well, they are not obligated to give you rules with your models. They are a model company, the game is an extra product. They aren't game pieces, they are models with an optional game available for purchase. Expecting them to sell you two products for the price of one is ludicrous. They only did so for AoS because Fantasy was a black hole of money, they were losing money, and took a major gamble with AoS. They don't need to do so with 40k.

In 7th Ed and precious you needed to buy; Rulebook, Codex for each faction, D6, tape measure and blast templates. In 8th Ed you need to buy Rulebook, Index, D6 and tape measure. The Indexes are also cheaper than Codexes so there's a cut cost if you only play 1 faction. The only thing that's changed between 8th Ed and 3rd-7th Ed is that there are multiple armies in each Index. Maybe for someone with Orks, Eldar, Guard and Space Marines, it blows, but you're not buying any more books than you previously would, and you aren't buying any less. What you are getting is playtested, up to date rules for everything. For cheaper than before.


For example, I currently have Space Marines, Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Tyranids, Orks, Chaos Marines and Assassins (1). Discounting the lone assassin as its not enough to justify rules for 1 model, that's 6 Codexes and 1 rulebook. In 8th, its 3 Indexes and a rulebook, and I'm getting Chaos Daemons, Renegade Knights, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Genestealers and Tau all chucked in for free.



And finally, as I've pointed out MULTIPLE times, you are not required to buy all rules at once. Pick one army you'd like to play with first, and buy the rules and index. In july, pick up another 1 or 2 Indexes as you can afford them. You won'% play all 5 or 6 armies in a month, unless its your sole activity.

Breng77 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Bottle wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).

Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.

Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.

For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.

My impression was that similar to AoS the core rules (how to move, shoot etc) would be free, and that unit data sheets with the Power level rating would also be free, but then like battle tomes, the indices would give you expanded rules for each faction, and all the collected data sheets. The big rule book seems like it will have expanded rules and all the match play points costs. But I'm not certain of all this beyond the core rules being free.

I really hope this is true! It's all I want.

Deadshot wrote:

Spoiler:

 Bottle wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).

Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.

Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.

For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.

Sorry to be rude about it but that's honestly your own problem. You need new rules every edition, that's never not been the case. Just think of this as a downpayment. Where in previous editions you might spend 400+ on models that become obselete in 6 months, you now have the rules already (so no further Pay To Pay cost until EVERYBODY has to do so, or maybe free PDF update or something) and can plan to buy only what will be useful and you like. Furthermore, no one wants to spend £75 on rules instead of models but that's been part of the game for years now, its just how it works. Its not extra cost, its expected cost. And new units and armies have always had to do this as well. Literally nothing has changed except they are going to give you the core rules (how the different phases and unit types work) as a PDF for free.

For the second paragraph, I can't follow you. You want the rules for free is what you're saying. That's fair. I want free stuff too, but you gotta pay for stuff bro. The models are one product and the game is another. You aren't getting 2 at once, it just doesn't work that way.

Yes you do come across as being rude, and needlessly so. I know it's my "own problem". That's precisely how I framed my comments. I am sad because it seems the set up won't cater for *me*. Everything you say is very true, but it was also true for WHFB. That all changed with AoS and it really opened up my hobby in the best way possible. I don't build armies. I build collections (i.e I buy bits and bobs from everywhere). I also like to play the game too, but don't mind if it's not always a tournament style game.

I was hoping to be able to play Open (not matched) 40k with very little rules barrier. How come? Because that would allow me to buy a box of the new death guard and mix them with my Iron Warriors. It would let me play against a friend or sibling who doesn't game by just grabbing out some of the models in my cabinet and putting them on the table. I didn't expect Matched or Narrative play to be free because it isn't in AoS, but I did hope for Open play to be free, just like it is in AoS.

It just means that I will probably only stick to Genestealer Cult for 40k, my odd units of Skitarii, Deathwatch and Sisters of Battle will stay in my cabinet painted but never seeing the table, and when a new unit comes out I particularly like the look of, I probably won't buy it because I would need to go all in and invest in a new army to play with them (because the books are too expensive for me to justify otherwise).

I bought a single unit of the Kharadron Overlords and will be using them in my Order army (without need to buy any books). I had only hoped that I could enjoy 40k in the same way. It seems I cannot. And for that reason I am a little sad.

Those are some good looking models, cant wait to see the expanded range for both lines

Do the starter box Primaris have removable shoulder pads, or are they moulded to the arm? I have a pile of sculpted pads that I'd rather use instead of transfers.

If the army pamphlets only have rules for the models in the box, could we see more options for the included units once there full Codex's drop?

Looks like the Primaris are going to have quite a different organizational structure to existing chapters. I wonder if they will have any other new ranks and how will the existing specialists fit in?

Personally never been happy with my space marine army and only have two out of 12 squads painted. I may sell on some and crack on with Prime marines I do like those longer guns.
As for prices it must be annoying but it's a relatively small British company with a relatively broad market maybe they want to absorbe the cost of selling abroad, who knows regardless it's hardly unusual business and has nothing to do with currency covertion. A bottle coke costs a lot more in the UK than say Dominica. It's not about exchange rates they price products as they wish the same as every other company.

Warhams-77 wrote:
I guess the dice will be like the markers we had in earlier editions, showing wounds and other unit status?

Keeping track of wounds in this edition looks to be a bit of a pain, especially with models that have 10-20+ wounds. Dice (D6-D20) are really not going to cut it because you have to move the dice with the models and dice often get flipped or separated from their model. Will the unit data sheets have boxes for ticking off wounds?

T

timd wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
I guess the dice will be like the markers we had in earlier editions, showing wounds and other unit status?

Keeping track of wounds in this edition looks to be a bit of a pain, especially with models that have 10-20+ wounds. Dice (D6-D20) are really not going to cut it because you have to move the dice with the models and dice often get flipped or separated from their model. Will the unit data sheets have boxes for ticking off wounds?

T

Offical ones - likely no - Fan made ones - almost certainly yes.

 Deadshot wrote:

Spoiler:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).

Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.

Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.

For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.

Sorry to be rude about it but that's honestly your own problem. You need new rules every edition, that's never not been the case. Just think of this as a downpayment. Where in previous editions you might spend 400+ on models that become obselete in 6 months, you now have the rules already (so no further Pay To Pay cost until EVERYBODY has to do so, or maybe free PDF update or something) and can plan to buy only what will be useful and you like. Furthermore, no one wants to spend £75 on rules instead of models but that's been part of the game for years now, its just how it works. Its not extra cost, its expected cost. And new units and armies have always had to do this as well. Literally nothing has changed except they are going to give you the core rules (how the different phases and unit types work) as a PDF for free.

For the second paragraph, I can't follow you. You want the rules for free is what you're saying. That's fair. I want free stuff too, but you gotta pay for stuff bro. The models are one product and the game is another. You aren't getting 2 at once, it just doesn't work that way.

It works that way for more or less every other commercially successful table top game. Rules normally come with the products. GW is an anomaly in that they sell game pieces and the rules to use them separately.

And I agree with his second paragraph. It's the same for me. 7th Edition really encouraged multi-faction armies. GW pushed the allies mechanic and made it super easy to build an army out of a little of this and a little of that. "Forge the Narrative" and take what you want. I built a cross-faction army with a core of Tau Empire, some Necrons I converted to all have Tau antennas sticking out of their heads and some IG/Skitarii to represent Tau Auxillaries. I also have a small force of Iron Warriors. In total, it's about 3000 points worth of painted models. If I want to play with them, I'll need to buy more or less all of the books on day 1. I don't have enough of any one army to play a 'full sized game', so buying the rules for the faction I like best isn't an option.

Yes, we all know we have to spend money to buy new rules from time to time, but it sucks to find out you have to buy ALL of the rules on day 1 to field the kind of army GW has been pushing for several years (multi faction). With AoS, you can literally buy any box off the wall and plunk it down on the table. With 40k 8th, you'll need to be more picky and make sure your particular flavor of Xenos is in the Xenos book you bought. Tau/Orks? One book. Tau/Necrons? Two books. Tau/Necrons/an Inquisitor? Three books.

It would be AWESOME if they could announce pricing so that people would have more than a couple of weeks to prep. I have a good job, so the cost isn't important, but I have friends who won't easily absorb a potentially $100-200 hit just to get the rules to play their existing armies. How much are the Index books going to cost? How much is the hardback rule book by itself? Rumors are all well and good, but I want actual GW USD retail pricing. Rumored GBP pricing isn't useful.

Multi-faction has changed. We know to put multiple factions inside of a single FOC they need to share keywords. We have no word on how multiple detachments work, or if you can mix keywords between detachments (like throwing Guard into a GSC list despite the lack of shared keywords).

So...

you bought multiple factions, with multiple codexes, and are now unhappy that you will still have to buy multiple Codexes? Nothing's changed except the Codexes are cheaper and cover multiple armies.

And again, you painted yourself into a corner. You bought 4 cars and now are mad that you have to pay insurance and MOT on all of them. Of course GW are going to encourage you to buy multiple armies, its more money for them.

As I previously said as well, they are not obligated to give you rules with your models. They are a model company, the game is an extra product. They aren't game pieces, they are models with an optional game available for purchase. Expecting them to sell you two products for the price of one is ludicrous. They only did so for AoS because Fantasy was a black hole of money, they were losing money, and took a major gamble with AoS. They don't need to do so with 40k.

In 7th Ed and precious you needed to buy; Rulebook, Codex for each faction, D6, tape measure and blast templates. In 8th Ed you need to buy Rulebook, Index, D6 and tape measure. The Indexes are also cheaper than Codexes so there's a cut cost if you only play 1 faction. The only thing that's changed between 8th Ed and 3rd-7th Ed is that there are multiple armies in each Index. Maybe for someone with Orks, Eldar, Guard and Space Marines, it blows, but you're not buying any more books than you previously would, and you aren't buying any less. What you are getting is playtested, up to date rules for everything. For cheaper than before.


For example, I currently have Space Marines, Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Tyranids, Orks, Chaos Marines and Assassins (1). Discounting the lone assassin as its not enough to justify rules for 1 model, that's 6 Codexes and 1 rulebook. In 8th, its 3 Indexes and a rulebook, and I'm getting Chaos Daemons, Renegade Knights, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Genestealers and Tau all chucked in for free.



And finally, as I've pointed out MULTIPLE times, you are not required to buy all rules at once. Pick one army you'd like to play with first, and buy the rules and index. In july, pick up another 1 or 2 Indexes as you can afford them. You won'% play all 5 or 6 armies in a month, unless its your sole activity.

I assume you weren't replying to me because this change bothers me not. I was just pointing out that we're missing some information on if the Chex Mix approach to throwing factions into an army really works in the new edition or not.

Will be getting the rulebook here, not bothered about the starter models so giving that a miss, likely to also give the various indexes a miss at least for now - I want to see how quickly they start to be replaced by actual faction books (expecting not all that long).

Also + lots for the idea of making little reference cards for the units that can have wounds ticked off as they occur, possibly even laminated but for any sort of event likely just tick boxes on a printed roster (also serves as a record post game of what survived and what didn't)

 Zognob Gorgoff wrote:
Personally never been happy with my space marine army and only have two out of 12 squads painted. I may sell on some and crack on with Prime marines I do like those longer guns.
As for prices it must be annoying but it's a relatively small British company with a relatively broad market maybe they want to absorbe the cost of selling abroad, who knows regardless it's hardly unusual business and has nothing to do with currency covertion. A bottle coke costs a lot more in the UK than say Dominica. It's not about exchange rates they price products as they wish the same as every other company.

They're not Blood Ravens are they?

While those compilation codices are not terribly expensive, it of course would be nice if the rules would be freely available online as well. AoS style of doing the unit rules is nice because it allows them to release new units without having to do an entire new codex for the rules.

@ Bottle


Apologies for coming across rude, your initial post came across as griping about the system as a whole, rather than an individual problem. In the former case, that's where I have an issue. Saying the system is broken because it doesn't suit the individual is unpalatable to me and I misspoke.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Spoiler:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).

Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.

Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.

For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.

Sorry to be rude about it but that's honestly your own problem. You need new rules every edition, that's never not been the case. Just think of this as a downpayment. Where in previous editions you might spend 400+ on models that become obselete in 6 months, you now have the rules already (so no further Pay To Pay cost until EVERYBODY has to do so, or maybe free PDF update or something) and can plan to buy only what will be useful and you like. Furthermore, no one wants to spend £75 on rules instead of models but that's been part of the game for years now, its just how it works. Its not extra cost, its expected cost. And new units and armies have always had to do this as well. Literally nothing has changed except they are going to give you the core rules (how the different phases and unit types work) as a PDF for free.

For the second paragraph, I can't follow you. You want the rules for free is what you're saying. That's fair. I want free stuff too, but you gotta pay for stuff bro. The models are one product and the game is another. You aren't getting 2 at once, it just doesn't work that way.

It works that way for more or less every other commercially successful table top game. Rules normally come with the products. GW is an anomaly in that they sell game pieces and the rules to use them separately.

And I agree with his second paragraph. It's the same for me. 7th Edition really encouraged multi-faction armies. GW pushed the allies mechanic and made it super easy to build an army out of a little of this and a little of that. "Forge the Narrative" and take what you want. I built a cross-faction army with a core of Tau Empire, some Necrons I converted to all have Tau antennas sticking out of their heads and some IG/Skitarii to represent Tau Auxillaries. I also have a small force of Iron Warriors. In total, it's about 3000 points worth of painted models. If I want to play with them, I'll need to buy more or less all of the books on day 1. I don't have enough of any one army to play a 'full sized game', so buying the rules for the faction I like best isn't an option.

Yes, we all know we have to spend money to buy new rules from time to time, but it sucks to find out you have to buy ALL of the rules on day 1 to field the kind of army GW has been pushing for several years (multi faction). With AoS, you can literally buy any box off the wall and plunk it down on the table. With 40k 8th, you'll need to be more picky and make sure your particular flavor of Xenos is in the Xenos book you bought. Tau/Orks? One book. Tau/Necrons? Two books. Tau/Necrons/an Inquisitor? Three books.

It would be AWESOME if they could announce pricing so that people would have more than a couple of weeks to prep. I have a good job, so the cost isn't important, but I have friends who won't easily absorb a potentially $100-200 hit just to get the rules to play their existing armies. How much are the Index books going to cost? How much is the hardback rule book by itself? Rumors are all well and good, but I want actual GW USD retail pricing. Rumored GBP pricing isn't useful.

Multi-faction has changed. We know to put multiple factions inside of a single FOC they need to share keywords. We have no word on how multiple detachments work, or if you can mix keywords between detachments (like throwing Guard into a GSC list despite the lack of shared keywords).

So...

you bought multiple factions, with multiple codexes, and are now unhappy that you will still have to buy multiple Codexes? Nothing's changed except the Codexes are cheaper and cover multiple armies.

And again, you painted yourself into a corner. You bought 4 cars and now are mad that you have to pay insurance and MOT on all of them. Of course GW are going to encourage you to buy multiple armies, its more money for them.

As I previously said as well, they are not obligated to give you rules with your models. They are a model company, the game is an extra product. They aren't game pieces, they are models with an optional game available for purchase. Expecting them to sell you two products for the price of one is ludicrous. They only did so for AoS because Fantasy was a black hole of money, they were losing money, and took a major gamble with AoS. They don't need to do so with 40k.

In 7th Ed and precious you needed to buy; Rulebook, Codex for each faction, D6, tape measure and blast templates. In 8th Ed you need to buy Rulebook, Index, D6 and tape measure. The Indexes are also cheaper than Codexes so there's a cut cost if you only play 1 faction. The only thing that's changed between 8th Ed and 3rd-7th Ed is that there are multiple armies in each Index. Maybe for someone with Orks, Eldar, Guard and Space Marines, it blows, but you're not buying any more books than you previously would, and you aren't buying any less. What you are getting is playtested, up to date rules for everything. For cheaper than before.


For example, I currently have Space Marines, Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Tyranids, Orks, Chaos Marines and Assassins (1). Discounting the lone assassin as its not enough to justify rules for 1 model, that's 6 Codexes and 1 rulebook. In 8th, its 3 Indexes and a rulebook, and I'm getting Chaos Daemons, Renegade Knights, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Genestealers and Tau all chucked in for free.



And finally, as I've pointed out MULTIPLE times, you are not required to buy all rules at once. Pick one army you'd like to play with first, and buy the rules and index. In july, pick up another 1 or 2 Indexes as you can afford them. You won'% play all 5 or 6 armies in a month, unless its your sole activity.

I assume you weren't replying to me because this change bothers me not. I was just pointing out that we're missing some information on if the Chex Mix approach to throwing factions into an army really works in the new edition or not.

Sorry, I wasn't replying to you specifically, I was just quoting the whole discussion.

Apologies if I came across as rude to anyone on this chat. Seeing some of the comments really grinds my gears. Long days at work and quitting cigarettes at the same time doesn't help either

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Those are some good looking models, cant wait to see the expanded range for both lines

Do the starter box Primaris have removable shoulder pads, or are they moulded to the arm? I have a pile of sculpted pads that I'd rather use instead of transfers.

The FB page confirmed them to be moulded to the arm. These are push-fit models that have very few individual parts.

Here's a sad thought.
with yearly balancing and point updates are we expected to rebuy indexes for every army every year for matched play?

If that's the case and Power level datasheets are free online I see a lot of the community buying 1 index and just using Power level as the main form of play and only buying an index once there is major changes to an army book.

gungo wrote:
Here's a sad thought.
with yearly balancing and point updates are we expected to rebuy indexes for every army every year for matched play?

Nope.

They've kept the points in their own section (likely back page if AoS is a guide), precisely so they can be tweaked and changed without requiring a new book.

gungo wrote:
Here's a sad thought.
with yearly balancing and point updates are we expected to rebuy indexes for every army every year for matched play?

More likely a Generals Handbook updating all factions points for £15 a year I would guess

No, people try to do a straight currency conversion and forget about import taxes and other fees tagged on to the incoming items (& each country is different). It's people that never seemed to understand how e̶x̶c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶e̶ ̶r̶a̶t̶e̶s̶ importing fees & taxes work.

Hmm...

I'm going to have to get a transfer sheet aren't I?

@deadshot it's fine! I will still have fun putting together my Genestealer Cult and can't wait to play a game of the new 40k as the rules sound incredible

 Bottle wrote:
I was hoping to be able to play Open (not matched) 40k with very little rules barrier. How come? Because that would allow me to buy a box of the new death guard and mix them with my Iron Warriors. It would let me play against a friend or sibling who doesn't game by just grabbing out some of the models in my cabinet and putting them on the table. I didn't expect Matched or Narrative play to be free because it isn't in AoS, but I did hope for Open play to be free, just like it is in AoS.

So far 8th seems to me to be sticking quite close to the AoS pattern. As long as the unit stats are available to download along side the core rules there is no need to buy anything other than models. The big book seems to be more like a combo of parts of the AoS GHB and the campaign books.

What are we ballparking the individual Primaris units and characters at? I'm just trying to get a sense of how the price on the starter looks if you're only using half the figs.

In CAD, I'm thinking the Primaris boxes have to be at least $60 for 5 if the 10 man Custodes box is $140. Characters would be $30 each, minimum. So four units and four characters (thinking 2 lieutenants to a box maybe), would be in the $300-$350 range. Straight converting form the $160 USD figure above the starter box would be $215 CAD. Not even accouting fort the rule book there either.

That sounds like a solid deal if you're ok with the mono-pose figs (which I am because they're awesome). I think I'm in, and haven't in my life purchased a starter 40k box (since 2nd Ed)

 Praxus wrote:
The FB page confirmed them to be moulded to the arm. These are push-fit models that have very few individual parts.

That's a shame. Guess I'll have to persevere with transfers until the separate kits are released.