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 Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I don't understand this idea that only if a miniature has options you can convert it. Quite the contrary, when one miniature has just one option then you are absolutely free to do whatever you want with it, because theres no confusion.

"This is my X. He can only use a Power Axe. Oh yeah I gave him a shield and a giant power-lance with a standard because he comes from a medieval world, but it doesn't really matter"
And you aren't punished for picking the option that you like more visually but is worse in rules.

I am too much of a simulationist to be comfortable with that, especially as the game actually has rules for lances and shields. It will be confusing for opponents as well. (I really preferred the time when the game just had power weapons that you could model however you liked without an issue.)

So my converted Death Cult that I’m thinking I could use as “counts as” dark eldar would confuse the hell out of some people. But, surely one of the joys of a game with a very small model count is that you can explain and remember each of your minis?

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I don't understand this idea that only if a miniature has options you can convert it. Quite the contrary, when one miniature has just one option then you are absolutely free to do whatever you want with it, because theres no confusion.

"This is my X. He can only use a Power Axe. Oh yeah I gave him a shield and a giant power-lance with a standard because he comes from a medieval world, but it doesn't really matter"
And you aren't punished for picking the option that you like more visually but is worse in rules.

I am too much of a simulationist to be comfortable with that, especially as the game actually has rules for lances and shields. It will be confusing for opponents as well. (I really preferred the time when the game just had power weapons that you could model however you liked without an issue.)

So my converted Death Cult that I’m thinking I could use as “counts as” dark eldar would confuse the hell out of some people. But, surely one of the joys of a game with a very small model count is that you can explain and remember each of your minis?

I agree you should be fine! And it is really dependent upon your fellow gamers and the local scene, but with so few models, I don't think anyone would have an issue with you saying "these are dark elder", as long as you clearly explain stuff.

 xttz wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/11/kill-team-focus-tyranids/

Hell yeah, Lictors!

Seeing Lictors was a pleasant surprise. Hopefully we’ll see more fluffy options with other armies as well.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
So my converted Death Cult that I’m thinking I could use as “counts as” dark eldar would confuse the hell out of some people. But, surely one of the joys of a game with a very small model count is that you can explain and remember each of your minis?

I don't see the problem with that. You are going to have lots of modelling going on. I used a Reaver biker head on my Van Saar which I think I'd like to use as Stormtroopers...or Tau Human Auxiliary.

The counts as, well there are lots of weapons that can already be confused for each other...especially on the other side of the board.

 Galas wrote:
I don't understand this idea that only if a miniature has options you can convert it. Quite the contrary, when one miniature has just one option then you are absolutely free to do whatever you want with it, because theres no confusion.

"This is my X. He can only use a Power Axe. Oh yeah I gave him a shield and a giant power-lance with a standard because he comes from a medieval world, but it doesn't really matter"
And you aren't punished for picking the option that you like more visually but is worse in rules.

But you nailed down the problem right there in your post - "it doesn't really matter".

Yes, one of the advantages of small skirmish games is it's easier to deal with visual complexity so WYSIWYG is pretty unimportant, but it's also easier to deal with mechanical complexity and so there's no good reason not to let you actually equip your guy with a shield and a giant power lance if that's what you actually want to give them.

The problem is that GW want to give people what amounts to both Shadespire and Mordheim in one single game, and that isn't possible. Sure, you can tighten up the rules for Mordheim a little(most do, with house rules), and you can add a bit more flavour and depth to Shadespire, but you can't take either too far in the direction of the other without losing the things that differentiate them and make them appealing to different types of gamer.

 alextroy wrote:

Jacksmiles wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Jacksmiles wrote:

Terrifying synapse beasts, Warriors are monstrous in Kill Team, boasting deadly bio-morphs, providing Synapse support for lesser creatures and disrupting enemy psykers.

Psykers, eh? Have we seen anything about those yet?

No, but my money would be on Eldar Warlocks, Grey Knights and maybe Thousand Sons.

*smacks head* I never remember the psyker troops. I'd be surprised if Eldar get warlocks though, they're still an HQ this edition right? I know it's a totally different system but they seem to be sticking with troops/elites so far.

Warlocks do come as both units and single models. They are also one of the weediest characters in all of 40K with 2 Wounds.

I was talking about 40k battlefield roles - though because of this being a separate ruleset entirely, it might not matter what things are in 40k. So far though we've only seen that Troops/Elites are coming, at least at launch.

This savage-looking kill team was painted by studio writer Phil Kelly to wreak havoc in the studio campaign. Want to know more about the Tyranids in Kill Team? Head on over to the Warhammer Community website now!

Pfft, those 4 Tyranids might be cool, but will they be able to handle my...

Many, many grots?

 BrookM wrote:

Spoiler:

This savage-looking kill team was painted by studio writer Phil Kelly to wreak havoc in the studio campaign. Want to know more about the Tyranids in Kill Team? Head on over to the Warhammer Community website now!

Comms Specialist? Is he supposed to be more in tune with the hive mind than the others or something, ‘cause he ain’t toting a radio around. Either way, looks like more rules ported over from 7th with a leader and 3 specialists. Wonder if they’ll be using old keyword-type rules for them too like Ignores Cover or Zealot.

have prices been confirmed?

Old, badly painted models, with (half of the time) illegal loadouts and pretentious names.

Yup, it's Phil Kelly all right

One thing of note, though, unless he screwed up list building again, only 4 models suggest Tyranid Warrior costs about the same as Lictor in KT, given the upper limit from WC. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't Warriors much less expensive in 40K?

 Irbis wrote:
Old, badly painted models, with (half of the time) illegal loadouts and pretentious names.

Yup, it's Phil Kelly all right

One thing of note, though, unless he screwed up list building again, only 4 models suggest Tyranid Warrior costs about the same as Lictor in KT, given the upper limit from WC. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't Warriors much less expensive in 40K?

I always liked Phil’s armies.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Comms Specialist? Is he supposed to be more in tune with the hive mind than the others or something, ‘cause he ain’t toting a radio around.

That's probably a good thing. Tyranid radio is pretty boring. There are no differing opinions and they're always talking about food.

 Irbis wrote:
Old, badly painted models, with (half of the time) illegal loadouts and pretentious names.

Yup, it's Phil Kelly all right

One thing of note, though, unless he screwed up list building again, only 4 models suggest Tyranid Warrior costs about the same as Lictor in KT, given the upper limit from WC. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't Warriors much less expensive in 40K?

We don't know what upgrades they have. You shouldn't' assume the points were spent evenly on the same models

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I don't understand this idea that only if a miniature has options you can convert it. Quite the contrary, when one miniature has just one option then you are absolutely free to do whatever you want with it, because theres no confusion.

"This is my X. He can only use a Power Axe. Oh yeah I gave him a shield and a giant power-lance with a standard because he comes from a medieval world, but it doesn't really matter"
And you aren't punished for picking the option that you like more visually but is worse in rules.

But you nailed down the problem right there in your post - "it doesn't really matter".

Yes, one of the advantages of small skirmish games is it's easier to deal with visual complexity so WYSIWYG is pretty unimportant, but it's also easier to deal with mechanical complexity and so there's no good reason not to let you actually equip your guy with a shield and a giant power lance if that's what you actually want to give them.

The problem is that GW want to give people what amounts to both Shadespire and Mordheim in one single game, and that isn't possible. Sure, you can tighten up the rules for Mordheim a little(most do, with house rules), and you can add a bit more flavour and depth to Shadespire, but you can't take either too far in the direction of the other without losing the things that differentiate them and make them appealing to different types of gamer.

I actually agree. I said it before, I was hoping for kill team to be mordheim in 40k (Because Necromunda isn't really it is). I will probably still play and ejoy it, as is own thing.
For me is clear that the intention of GW is for people to use their kill team models in 40k if they decide to make that small collection a full army.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
Old, badly painted models, with (half of the time) illegal loadouts and pretentious names.

Yup, it's Phil Kelly all right

One thing of note, though, unless he screwed up list building again, only 4 models suggest Tyranid Warrior costs about the same as Lictor in KT, given the upper limit from WC. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't Warriors much less expensive in 40K?

We don't know what upgrades they have. You shouldn't' assume the points were spent evenly on the same models

Based on the codex Phil Kelly’s Squad comes out to 141pts without Biomorphs. I wouldn’t be surprised if 150 was the baseline for matched play.

So two Kill Teams for going full Genestealer. Cult Stealers versus Hive Fleet Stealers. Choose your tactics (a lot of them you can't use anyway) wisely in this epitome of balanced play!

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
Old, badly painted models, with (half of the time) illegal loadouts and pretentious names.

Yup, it's Phil Kelly all right

One thing of note, though, unless he screwed up list building again, only 4 models suggest Tyranid Warrior costs about the same as Lictor in KT, given the upper limit from WC. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't Warriors much less expensive in 40K?

We don't know what upgrades they have. You shouldn't' assume the points were spent evenly on the same models

Based on the codex Phil Kelly’s Squad comes out to 141pts without Biomorphs. I wouldn’t be surprised if 150 was the baseline for matched play.

Assuming (wrongly imo) they are using the points cost from 8th edition.
Why is everyone forgetting that this is a separate ruleset? Not harping, but it seems like everyone is trying to use 8th as a baseline, and as far as we know that's not possible.

Neronoxx wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
Old, badly painted models, with (half of the time) illegal loadouts and pretentious names.

Yup, it's Phil Kelly all right

One thing of note, though, unless he screwed up list building again, only 4 models suggest Tyranid Warrior costs about the same as Lictor in KT, given the upper limit from WC. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't Warriors much less expensive in 40K?

We don't know what upgrades they have. You shouldn't' assume the points were spent evenly on the same models

Based on the codex Phil Kelly’s Squad comes out to 141pts without Biomorphs. I wouldn’t be surprised if 150 was the baseline for matched play.

Assuming (wrongly imo) they are using the points cost from 8th edition.
Why is everyone forgetting that this is a separate ruleset? Not harping, but it seems like everyone is trying to use 8th as a baseline, and as far as we know that's not possible.

Because that’s what GW has done for the past few editions they’ve included Kill Team rules. I’d be very surprised if they deviated quite a bit from the Codexes. I’m expecting them to just add a few stats to the models(Nerve maybe?), and call it a day for changes. If they claim 8th is the “most playtested edition ever”, I assume they’d be far more likely to take the safe option by keeping most stats and points costs similar to the main ruleset. Especially since they’ve apparently invested the time to keep it balanced.

Well, how many points did that previewed Primaris Space Wolf list add up to?

 Irbis wrote:
Old, badly painted models, with (half of the time) illegal loadouts and pretentious names.

Yup, it's Phil Kelly all right

One thing of note, though, unless he screwed up list building again, only 4 models suggest Tyranid Warrior costs about the same as Lictor in KT, given the upper limit from WC. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't Warriors much less expensive in 40K?

What? Illegal loadouts? Explain.

Also, Warriors are cheaper in 40K because they come in squads, and are a troop choice, with lots of weapon and biomorph options. Lictors come stock and are cheap as dirt for an Elite Slot.

They've stated that this is a completely new rule set, from the ground up.
We need some actual previews

Neronoxx wrote:
They've stated that this is a completely new rule set, from the ground up.
We need some actual previews

GW has said that KT uses a new ruleset. But the presence of stratagems strongly suggests that is not the case. I think it is more likely that KT is really 8th edition with some tweaks and additions. Some substantive rules previews would be nice regardless.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Comms Specialist? Is he supposed to be more in tune with the hive mind than the others or something, ‘cause he ain’t toting a radio around.

That's probably a good thing. Tyranid radio is pretty boring. There are no differing opinions and they're always talking about food.

That's just what they want you to think. Have you even seen a Bug's Life? Plenty of anxiety issues, identity crises and hive intrigue to go round.

Blastaar wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:
They've stated that this is a completely new rule set, from the ground up.
We need some actual previews

GW has said that KT uses a new ruleset. But the presence of stratagems strongly suggests that is not the case. I think it is more likely that KT is really 8th edition with some tweaks and additions. Some substantive rules previews would be nice regardless.

The way they present the stratagems is actually closer to Sigmar or perhaps a blend of the 2.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Well, how many points did that previewed Primaris Space Wolf list add up to?

100 points, maybe 105 tops in 8th edition.

Kill Team will be a completely different system, but you won't stop people speculating even if they've been told that multiple times in videos, interviews and articles on the Community website.

Long time dakka lurker reporting in, and I have to say I am super stoked for this.

Really liking the sound of the game with the shorter playtime and smaller format.

Perfect for those of us who have been collecting bits of models here and there for years and who find it hard to get the time for a full 40k game.

And good for GWs as I'm sure people will be tempted to pick up kits and boxed sets they would not have done otherwise to make a kill team with them.

Can any1 translate the prices to € ?? Simply converting currencies is quite difficult for gw products.

 _Ness wrote:
Can any1 translate the prices to € ?? Simply converting currencies is quite difficult for gw products.

From earlier in the thread:

Just give us the rules already so we can start list-smashing!!! I need a reason to finish painting models from a myriad of factions!! And yet more excuses to convert.