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Issue with blades is they axe the Chordclaw, and whenever i run ruststalkers its honestly just the chordclaw that even does anything, since a 6 to wound with it tends to kill multiple models.
+1S doesnt help ruststalkers very much. They desperately need a baseline AP. Annoyingly the only way we can fix that causes mortal wounds instead of the damage anyway lol

Honestly I'd rather use Sterylizors to the job Ruststalkers want to do. 100 pts instead of 70 pts, but you have the same amount of attacks on the charge at least, innate -1 AP and S5 on the charge. Plus Fly, 12" move, a good pistol and 4 good flamers that ignore cover and have -1 AP.

And there's also the stratagem to lock an Infantry unit in CC on a 2+ which helps their survivability as long as they're not locked with Aggressors or something of course. For 30 pts I think it's worth it against a unit that REALLY needs 6s to Wound to do damage to anything that's not an Aeldari or Guardsmen profile.

 Aaranis wrote:
Honestly I'd rather use Sterylizors to the job Ruststalkers want to do. 100 pts instead of 70 pts, but you have the same amount of attacks on the charge at least, innate -1 AP and S5 on the charge. Plus Fly, 12" move, a good pistol and 4 good flamers that ignore cover and have -1 AP.

And there's also the stratagem to lock an Infantry unit in CC on a 2+ which helps their survivability as long as they're not locked with Aggressors or something of course. For 30 pts I think it's worth it against a unit that REALLY needs 6s to Wound to do damage to anything that's not an Aeldari or Guardsmen profile.

I like your thinking here, Sterylizors may just have found a way into my list. Love me some flexibility. Though Skystalkers may still win for their options and cheaper cost. Gah! lol.

The biggest thing stopping me use Ruststalkers is not their melee ability, it's not bad, its not great but they're cheap for a fast-moving 2w model. It's that that's their trick. That's all they have. No shooting, no extreme mobility, no shenanigans of any kind and for 2ppm more I can get Raiders. Even now being able to get them in range of their target easier and removing overwatch if that's ALL you were doing with them there are better alternatives. Corpuscarii are the same points cost now...which is kinda silly.

As far as durable melee options go...all our melee options are fragile. Breachers are as close as we get to durable but they're not exactly cheap and excel more at shooting. Even Fulgurites are fragile against normal weapons without you popping acquisition after killing something. I think i'd still rather take Breachers for sitting on Objectives though, they can at least do something while they're there.

Hoplites are on my radar for their synergy with Trans node power cores though. Bunch of breachers and Hoplites all exploding all their hits on 5s and 6s is a helluva incentive.

Octovol wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Honestly I'd rather use Sterylizors to the job Ruststalkers want to do. 100 pts instead of 70 pts, but you have the same amount of attacks on the charge at least, innate -1 AP and S5 on the charge. Plus Fly, 12" move, a good pistol and 4 good flamers that ignore cover and have -1 AP.

And there's also the stratagem to lock an Infantry unit in CC on a 2+ which helps their survivability as long as they're not locked with Aggressors or something of course. For 30 pts I think it's worth it against a unit that REALLY needs 6s to Wound to do damage to anything that's not an Aeldari or Guardsmen profile.

I like your thinking here, Sterylizors may just have found a way into my list. Love me some flexibility. Though Skystalkers may still win for their options and cheaper cost. Gah! lol.

The biggest thing stopping me use Ruststalkers is not their melee ability, it's not bad, its not great but they're cheap for a fast-moving 2w model. It's that that's their trick. That's all they have. No shooting, no extreme mobility, no shenanigans of any kind and for 2ppm more I can get Raiders. Even now being able to get them in range of their target easier and removing overwatch if that's ALL you were doing with them there are better alternatives. Corpuscarii are the same points cost now...which is kinda silly.

As far as durable melee options go...all our melee options are fragile. Breachers are as close as we get to durable but they're not exactly cheap and excel more at shooting. Even Fulgurites are fragile against normal weapons without you popping acquisition after killing something. I think i'd still rather take Breachers for sitting on Objectives though, they can at least do something while they're there.

Hoplites are on my radar for their synergy with Trans node power cores though. Bunch of breachers and Hoplites all exploding all their hits on 5s and 6s is a helluva incentive.

Unfortunately, Hoplites don't get Dogmas, so they dont get exploding 5s and 6s. I am really hoping the new Forge World Index changes that.

Goonhammer has confirmed that the arquebus is 10 points each by the way. Rejoice!

U02dah4 wrote:Rust stalkers arnt good purely because hoplites and corpuscarii do the same role better +1S canticle is too big a penalty for the rest of the army

Aaranis wrote:Honestly I'd rather use Sterylizors to the job Ruststalkers want to do.

The math vs MEQs works out that, without any buffs, Corpuscarii, Sterylizers, and Ruststalkers all score 0.67 average wounds per model, while Hoplites score 0.45. Against Primaris, the Ruststalkers jump to 0.89 expected wounds because the D3 damage gets used. There's also a big caveat for the Styerlizers, because if they aren't charging they deal 0.34 wounds vs MEQ. That becomes a big liability when you're trying to hold an objective.

While most of those units have a shooting profile, you have to be careful when considering it. You won't always shoot, because you risk failing the charge by killing the closest models. Against MEQ, the Corpuscarii and Hoplites score 0.22 more wounds and the Sterylizers score a whopping 0.88.

You can see all the choices are actually fairly competitive. The Hoplites are the cheapest and also the weakest, slowest, and second most fragile. Corpuscarii are the most fragile for their points, but are slightly better offensively with their shooting. Ruststalkers are almost twice as durable as Corpuscarii, and are faster, for the same price. The Sterylizers are faster still and have great shooting, but are 40% more expensive and really suck if they aren't charging.

So there are pros and cons but, for taking an objective and then sitting on it, I think Ruststalkers are the best per point.

dadamowsky wrote:If someone really wants a +1S on Ruststalkers then Blades are an answer. FW Canticles are way too precious to waste them for Rusties having a bit better wounding.

Vineheart01 wrote:Issue with blades is they axe the Chordclaw, and whenever i run ruststalkers its honestly just the chordclaw that even does anything, since a 6 to wound with it tends to kill multiple models.
+1S doesnt help ruststalkers very much. They desperately need a baseline AP. Annoyingly the only way we can fix that causes mortal wounds instead of the damage anyway lol

Yup, the math also bears out that the Chordclaw is like half the Ruststalker's damage, but two thirds of the damage still gets a meaningful boost from +1S. My list doesn't get that much value from Canticles (no FW ones, everybody's in range of the Dominus anyway), so I can easily use it on turn 2 or 3. If you can't, then you're not missing out that much. Most of the damage boost comes from the stratagems.

Octovol wrote:
I like your thinking here, Sterylizors may just have found a way into my list. Love me some flexibility. Though Skystalkers may still win for their options and cheaper cost. Gah! lol.

The biggest thing stopping me use Ruststalkers is not their melee ability, it's not bad, its not great but they're cheap for a fast-moving 2w model. It's that that's their trick. That's all they have. No shooting, no extreme mobility, no shenanigans of any kind and for 2ppm more I can get Raiders.

I'll throw the rest on the math pile. Skystalkers get 0.22 wounds vs MEQ. Raiders get 0.29 wounds. Sulphurhounds get 0.3. Obviously these are shooting units, and they are not meant to be in close combat. Still, I want to make apparent the disparity, they're less than half as good as actual close combat units.

PiñaColada wrote:
Goonhammer has confirmed that the arquebus is 10 points each by the way. Rejoice!

Oh thanks for the info, that's great news ! It helps soften the increase in cost for Rangers a bit. I may keep 2x5 units of 2 arquebuses and Omnispex in the future to hold ground in my backline.

Yeah all our melee is flimsy, save for Kastelan Robots, which are a pain to deal with if it's not locked with a Dreadnought or TH hero or something. I'm eager to try my 4x Fistelans unit in 9th, they may be a nice presence to add midfield to threaten lines or hold objectives. Otherwise, flimsiness can be mitigated with Duneriders, ideally our melee units don't get shot at before they're charged save for the eventual Overwatch. Advance the Duneriders, weather a turn of fire, and disembark-charge the next. Which is why it's important to keep multiple vehicles in our lists (not that it's hard to do) to give the opponent different threats to deal with his limited anti-tank weaponry. Will he focus on the Ironstriders, or the Duneriders ?

To get back to the Ruststalker question, I would never use a pure melee unit to hold an objective, that's asking for trouble. Let's say they're on their own in a corner of the map holding an objective and the opponent brings a shooty squad just close enough so as to shoot the Ruststalkers to whittle them down. Come your turn, do you leave the objective to charge them, or do you stay still and pray you'll tank the next salvo ? It's not a common scenario I admit, but it happens and it happened to me with different units. They're nice as a SUPPORT unit I think, as long the main objective holders (mainly, our Troops) are there they're great to intercept or finish off units threatening our control.

We need tough and/or cheap units that can defend themselves to hold objectives in 9th. Even Ironstriders can be an interesting choice in a pinch, they had a minimal points bump while gaining the abilities to shoot in CC and move without penalty. They'll finally be able to do what they're supposed to do: be a very mobile firing platform. Park 3-4 on an objective and with their sheer footprint they'll be hard to kick out.

Lots of things to think about.

 Aaranis wrote:
Even Ironstriders can be an interesting choice in a pinch, they had a minimal points bump while gaining the abilities to shoot in CC and move without penalty. They'll finally be able to do what they're supposed to do: be a very mobile firing platform. Park 3-4 on an objective and with their sheer footprint they'll be hard to kick out.

With the weirdly large increase in points for Autocannons, are Lascannon Ironstriders worth running?

I'm going to do the maths, but for 10 pts more they're still a cheap option for anti-tank that doesn't need much support. Thing is, Autocannons can be much more flexible, as long as we invest around them, be it in CPs or Warlord Traits. You'd have to see what your local meta is made of. I know I'll prefer Autocannons when facing Primaris armies. With the possibility to have them S8 for a turn, as well as having AP-2 at mid-range you're looking at a lot of dead Primaris quite often.

We can still give +1 to Hit to our Ironstriders, just 2 of them and this strat is 4 shots at 2+ to Hit/3+ to Wound AP-3 Dd6, it's a reliable anti-tank tool.

 DarkHound wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:Rust stalkers arnt good purely because hoplites and corpuscarii do the same role better +1S canticle is too big a penalty for the rest of the army

Aaranis wrote:Honestly I'd rather use Sterylizors to the job Ruststalkers want to do.

The math vs MEQs works out that, without any buffs, Corpuscarii, Styerlizers, and Ruststalkers all score 0.67 average wounds per model, while Hoplites score 0.45. Against Primaris, the Ruststalkers jump to 0.89 expected wounds because the D3 damage gets used. There's also a big caveat for the Styerlizers, because if they aren't charging they deal 0.34 wounds vs MEQ. That becomes a big liability when you're trying to hold an objective.

While most of those units have a shooting profile, you have to be careful when considering it. You won't always shoot, because you risk failing the charge by killing the closest models. Against MEQ, the Corpuscarii and Hoplites score 0.22 more wounds and the Sterylizers score a whopping 0.88.

You can see all the choices are actually fairly competitive. The Hoplites are the cheapest and also the weakest, slowest, and second most fragile. Corpuscarii are the most fragile for their points, but are slightly better offensively with their shooting. Ruststalkers are almost twice as durable as Corpuscarii, and are faster, for the same price. The Sterylizers are faster still and have great shooting, but are 40% more expensive and really suck if they aren't charging.

So there are pros and cons but, for taking an objective and then sitting on it, I think Ruststalkers are the best per point.

dadamowsky wrote:If someone really wants a +1S on Ruststalkers then Blades are an answer. FW Canticles are way too precious to waste them for Rusties having a bit better wounding.

Vineheart01 wrote:Issue with blades is they axe the Chordclaw, and whenever i run ruststalkers its honestly just the chordclaw that even does anything, since a 6 to wound with it tends to kill multiple models.
+1S doesnt help ruststalkers very much. They desperately need a baseline AP. Annoyingly the only way we can fix that causes mortal wounds instead of the damage anyway lol

Yup, the math also bears out that the Chordclaw is like half the Ruststalker's damage, but two thirds of the damage still gets a meaningful boost from +1S. My list doesn't get that much value from Canticles (no FW ones, everybody's in range of the Dominus anyway), so I can easily use it on turn 2 or 3. If you can't, then you're not missing out that much. Most of the damage boost comes from the stratagems.

Octovol wrote:
I like your thinking here, Sterylizors may just have found a way into my list. Love me some flexibility. Though Skystalkers may still win for their options and cheaper cost. Gah! lol.

The biggest thing stopping me use Ruststalkers is not their melee ability, it's not bad, its not great but they're cheap for a fast-moving 2w model. It's that that's their trick. That's all they have. No shooting, no extreme mobility, no shenanigans of any kind and for 2ppm more I can get Raiders.

I'll throw the rest on the math pile. Skystalkers get 0.22 wounds vs MEQ. Raiders get 0.29 wounds. Sulphurhounds get 0.3. Obviously these are shooting units, and they are not meant to be in close combat. Still, I want to make apparent the disparity, they're less than half as good as actual close combat units.

1) hoplites are cheaper in points than ruststalkers a simple model by model comparison is not fair 7 rust stalkers = 10 hoplites you cant just do a mode for modell damage comparison- but lets look at 7Ruststalkers VS 10 hoplites 4.6W vs 2w MEQ to vs 1W from the razor and 1.5 MW 0.5 hits go through at d3 dam and 3/4 MW from the chordclaw
so 4.6W from hoplite vs 4.25 from ruststalker point for point vs 2W MEQ but hoplites S6 and D3 dam vs vehicles makes them more effective vs a wider range of targets.

2) hoplites superior invul especially is huge when it comes to defence hoplites are much more survivable and will dish out 3ish MW in defence sure the rustalkers pt for pt get 4 extra W but come up against high AP and the rustalkers are tissue paper. I've seen Knight gallents take more damage from hoplites than they dealt to it that wouldn't be the case for rustalkers

3) hoplites have guns - that arn't bad after DS your essentially getting 10 extra A pushing that 4.6 up to 6.7 so about 33% more than the rustalkers not factory defensive W vs the units that rustalkers are optimised for

rustalkers are not almost twice as durable as corpuscarii vs a lot of weapons say my knight warden desides to unleash its gattleing cannon 3.95 dead corpuscarii 55pts ish 5.5 dead rustalkers or 77.7pts

Sure if you cherrypick 0AP mono damage weapons rustalkers are pretty resistant but the minute either of those things arnt true the gap closes and if both are true corpuscarii are more survivable

but just for good measure the hoplites lose 4.4 models at approximately 44 Pts from the same measure (we have a survivability winner)

So short your assessment is way off probably due to cherrypicking as a general rule on a point for point basis Hoplites are the most tanky and the best in melee while corpuscarii with the new strat cost the same as rustalkers but get great shooting

Ruststalkers only advantage is speed and that makes no difference when you are DS or objective camping

 Aaranis wrote:
Yeah all our melee is flimsy, save for Kastelan Robots, which are a pain to deal with if it's not locked with a Dreadnought or TH hero or something.

To get back to the Ruststalker question, I would never use a pure melee unit to hold an objective, that's asking for trouble. Let's say they're on their own in a corner of the map holding an objective and the opponent brings a shooty squad just close enough so as to shoot the Ruststalkers to whittle them down. Come your turn, do you leave the objective to charge them, or do you stay still and pray you'll tank the next salvo ? It's not a common scenario I admit, but it happens and it happened to me with different units. They're nice as a SUPPORT unit I think, as long the main objective holders (mainly, our Troops) are there they're great to intercept or finish off units threatening our control.

I should be clear, the point is to take an objective and hold it until it scores at the start of the next turn, then move on and let a shooting unit stay on it. For that reason, I don't think Ruststalkers do well if they're reserved to go backfield hunting (but I also don't think any of our units do that well). I'd even argue that with Acquisition at any Cost and cover (or Shroudpsalm), 20 2+ wounds is hard to remove.

The math bears out that Breachers are the weakest assault unit, but the most durable. I just don't see them performing that well as an objective taker. I also think Fulgerites are still in the running. They didn't get that much of a point increase. If you're running transports, you should probably be using Fulgurites. They have far and away the most damage, and are competitively durable when you get Siphon Vigour.

I think the top 3 assault units are Fulgerites, Ruststalkers, and Sterylizers, in that order.

Wait, why are we comparing Ruststalkers to Hoplites? 10 Hoplites do WAYYY more work than 7 Ruststalkers, especially against vehicles and after taking Acquisition At Any Cost into account. Better durability, higher volume of attacks, lower risk of loss. What more can you want?

If your only concern is Space Marines though, I would do Corpuscarii.

And yeah, Breachers are mediocre at fighting unless we significantly invest in them to fight. Which I do recommend if you are going to be bringing 3-6x5 of them.

 Suzuteo wrote:
Wait, why are we comparing Ruststalkers to Hoplites? 10 Hoplites do WAYYY more work than 7 Ruststalkers, especially against vehicles and after taking Acquisition At Any Cost into account. Better durability, higher volume of attacks, lower risk of loss. What more can you want?

If your only concern is Space Marines though, I would do Corpuscarii.

And yeah, Breachers are mediocre at fighting unless we significantly invest in them to fight. Which I do recommend if you are going to be bringing 3-6x5 of them.

indeed its a one sided contested

i would say cost comparison but...hopilites come in packs of 10 per purchase so even accounting the FW tax they still come out less $$$ than 2 ruststalker boxes lol
Which is an insanely bizarre concept to think of...

i might as well get some, been meaning to and now they sound really tasty, Especially since dragoons suck now.

Plus they look awesome

If Hoplites get the Forgeworld keyword in the FW books that's gonna make my day and fully justifies putting them in either data-hoard/Trans node power cores detachment or a expansionist/rugged explorers detachment. Might even buy a drill for them lol.

Now it's just irking me I can't take rugged explorers and trans node power cores together as my custom FW lol

Octovol wrote:
If Hoplites get the Forgeworld keyword in the FW books that's gonna make my day and fully justifies putting them in either data-hoard/Trans node power cores detachment or a expansionist/rugged explorers detachment. Might even buy a drill for them lol.

Now it's just irking me I can't take rugged explorers and trans node power cores together as my custom FW lol

I have 30 Hoplites and 2 Drills that are going to see play regardless, if only because I spent around $400 on the models and I refuse to let them sit on the shelf. (I've got another 10 hoplites that need to be assembled/painted but with the new blast weapon rules and rule of 3 those I'm in no hurry to finish them). With the massive points hike on Duneriders, I might end up buying a 3rd drill.

Only problem is now ypu can DS hoplites im not sure drills are optimal

PiñaColada wrote:
Goonhammer has confirmed that the arquebus is 10 points each by the way. Rejoice!

Does that mean they remain 19ppm same as in 8th? The best sniper rifle in the game and its NET cost went down lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, random thought: With hit modifiers capped at -1/+1 does that mean we can Advance with Cognis weapons and that -2 can only be reduced to a NET -1? Obviously, if we used protector or something on Ironstriders for +2 to hit we'd still end up a NET +0 after advancing but that adds some additional mobility for Ironstriders if you need something to get to an objective and still shoot.

U02dah4 wrote:
Only problem is now ypu can DS hoplites im not sure drills are optimal

Maybe, but I rarely deep struck the drills anyway. 10- 12 Hoplites and a drill are a pretty decent force to hold an objective, and the Melta Cutter/ drill CC weapon complement the arc spears a lot better than the Heavy Stubbers from the Dunerider ever did.

Coming from the sides of the board can have its limitations though, they're more predictable and will be further from their goal. Drill can at least strike everywhere it has room. Otherwise the Lucius strat still works.

I never was too big on multiple dogmas lists, but reading the custom ones I wonder if they're any we can use for specific tasks. If Hoplites get dogmas anytime Transnodal generators will be really powerful, especially coupled with the Artisan Warlord to give exploding 6s to wound against Vehicles in a pinch. Or I'm thinking about a small detachment with the buffed Irradiation to use Sulphurhounds as fast suicidal debuffers to lower the Toughness of as many units as they can for our firing line. If we want to play a mechanised list and trade firepower for resilience, the Datathesauriser world (dunno how it's written in English sorry) have interesting traits too; 6+ FNP for vehicle, and auto-reparation means we can save up to 9 wounds on a vehicle at once with this + double repair + Necromechanic trait.

nvm brainfart

Uh-oh, looks like Vigilus Detachments will be illegal in Competitive Play. Leaks from the GT Rulepack here from Rumours thread: https://imgur.com/a/uH74BUw

 Aaranis wrote:
Uh-oh, looks like Vigilus Detachments will be illegal in Competitive Play. Leaks from the GT Rulepack here from Rumours thread: https://imgur.com/a/uH74BUw

Uh... where does it say that? These are images, and we can't search through them easily.

Same place it mentions you cant include understrength units.

Which tbh feels more aimed at orks than anyone else, as an ork player w/o Dread Waagh! was really rare.

Seems like deployment is hugely in favor for the one who goes first.
In favor for first:
No prepared positions, 2nd player doesnt decide which deployment, which side and where the markers will be placed. He also doesnt have to deploy fully before the 2nd anymore.
Terrain rules and los blocks will at least keep some shooting at bay AND as we now score at the beginning of our turn we have to move to objectives and hold it, which means the first player will have to move into position first, and will be in range of most of the opponents guns.

Yeah, woah, no specialist detachments at all. That's a hell of a shake-up for everyone else. Good thing we don't really use ours.

Well, RIP Breacher blobs and Graiabots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 0XFallen wrote:
Seems like deployment is hugely in favor for the one who goes first.
In favor for first:
No prepared positions, 2nd player doesnt decide which deployment, which side and where the markers will be placed. He also doesnt have to deploy fully before the 2nd anymore.
Terrain rules and los blocks will at least keep some shooting at bay AND as we now score at the beginning of our turn we have to move to objectives and hold it, which means the first player will have to move into position first, and will be in range of most of the opponents guns.

Well, we still get Shroudpsalm.

But I think 8E at the end favored the player who goes second too much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thoughts about this list?


Been thinking about squeezing a small unit of Robots into a mechanized list. Before this, I ran an extra transport, including Drills. But I did the math, and this firebase shuts out all of my friends' Marine lists if they go first.

 Suzuteo wrote:
Thoughts about this list?

Spoiler:

Mars Battalion Detachment - 2000

HQ - 290
1x Belisarius Cawl - Warlord: Static Psalm-Code
1x Daedalosus
1x Tech-priest Enginseer - Divinations of the Magos (-1 CP)

Troop - 180
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard

Elite - 200
10x Secutarii Hoplites - 10x Mag-Inverter Shield
10x Secutarii Hoplites - 10x Mag-Inverter Shield

Transport - 400
1x Skorpius Dunerider
1x Skorpius Dunerider
1x Skorpius Dunerider
1x Skorpius Dunerider

Fast Attack - 325
5x Ironstrider Ballistarii - Twin Cognis Autocannon

Heavy Support - 605
3x Kastelan Robot - 9x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Broad Spectrum Data-tether

Total: 2000 points
11 CP

Been thinking about squeezing a small unit of Robots into a mechanized list. Before this, I ran an extra transport, including Drills. But I did the math, and this firebase shuts out all of my friends' Marine lists if they go first.

I think this list looks neat. Ballistarii Autocannons are definitely going to be one of our top dogs, the mobility combined with the range and all possible buffs makes them a fantastic unit. And given their costs I wouldn't even feel bad if they died.

5 Autocannon Ballistarii buffed with +1 to Hit, +1 to Wound, +1S and AP-2 will average 18,51 wounds against MEQ and the same thing against a Rhino chassis. Even Repulsors with the +1S. Though trusting my maths if I had to chose a single buff to apply them it would be the AP-2 for when dealing with something under T7.

Though I'm curious if the Icarus Crawlers are not redundant in the context of your list, you already have lots of S6-S7 shooting with the Ballistarii/Robots, and even more anti-infantry with the Duneriders and Hoplites. What do you think about dropping a Robot and switching the Icarus for Neutron Lasers ? It would help you against anything T8 like Mechanised Guard or Repulsors. You'd have some points left for upgrades or more units.

 Aaranis wrote:
I think this list looks neat. Ballistarii Autocannons are definitely going to be one of our top dogs, the mobility combined with the range and all possible buffs makes them a fantastic unit. And given their costs I wouldn't even feel bad if they died.

5 Autocannon Ballistarii buffed with +1 to Hit, +1 to Wound, +1S and AP-2 will average 18,51 wounds against MEQ and the same thing against a Rhino chassis. Even Repulsors with the +1S. Though trusting my maths if I had to chose a single buff to apply them it would be the AP-2 for when dealing with something under T7.

Though I'm curious if the Icarus Crawlers are not redundant in the context of your list, you already have lots of S6-S7 shooting with the Ballistarii/Robots, and even more anti-infantry with the Duneriders and Hoplites. What do you think about dropping a Robot and switching the Icarus for Neutron Lasers ? It would help you against anything T8 like Mechanised Guard or Repulsors. You'd have some points left for upgrades or more units.

It's actually quite hard to kill Ballistarii. They tend to be ignored when there is high threat saturation. Plus, they are mobile and can maintain that 48" distance.

With the +1S bonus and cap on -1 to hit, Icarus Crawlers are the clear winner in the Crawler lineup; remember that they essentially ignore -1 to hit versus ground because they give themselves the debuff. Besides, I use my Autocannon Ballistarii for T8 vehicles, and Knights got nerfed pretty hard (not that Neutron Lasers would be ideal for killing them anyway).

If the Grator weapons were a typo, and they actually cost 130, I might switch back to 3 of them.