Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Nothing is preventing you from doing that. I'm reasonably confident it wasn't the intent of the rule, but I couldn't say for sure.

Mandragola wrote:
Nothing is preventing you from doing that. I'm reasonably confident it wasn't the intent of the rule, but I couldn't say for sure.

If you read the fluff bit in the Strat its very much about the Salamanders protecting others be they other Marines, guardsmen, Inqusitors or a small child or cat.....

 Jidmah wrote:
So what exactly is preventing me from putting a salamanders techmarine gunner or something in the middle of an imperial army and protect everything that is not closest from all shooting?

Common decency?

 Jidmah wrote:
So what exactly is preventing me from putting a salamanders techmarine gunner or something in the middle of an imperial army and protect everything that is not closest from all shooting?

Nothing. That's exactly what stratagem allows.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's amazing the difference a couple of head swaps can make.

Forget the headswap, look at the mould lines on Shrike! That's like 2008 levels of mould likes from when they have lines down the middle of space marine shoulder pads!

 Deadshot wrote:
Forget the headswap, look at the mould lines on Shrike! That's like 2008 levels of mould likes from when they have lines down the middle of space marine shoulder pads!

The sad reality of using the Beakie helmet that's on Shrike's belt rather than, say, the new one from the Raven Guard sprue.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Forget the headswap, look at the mould lines on Shrike! That's like 2008 levels of mould likes from when they have lines down the middle of space marine shoulder pads!

The sad reality of using the Beakie helmet that's on Shrike's belt rather than, say, the new one from the Raven Guard sprue.

The problem is that whilst the belt helmet is presumably awkward to remove cleanly and repair, it has a unique decoration on the forehead.

changemod wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Forget the headswap, look at the mould lines on Shrike! That's like 2008 levels of mould likes from when they have lines down the middle of space marine shoulder pads!

The sad reality of using the Beakie helmet that's on Shrike's belt rather than, say, the new one from the Raven Guard sprue.

The problem is that whilst the belt helmet is presumably awkward to remove cleanly and repair, it has a unique decoration on the forehead.

The helmet is one problem and the moldlines on it are a consequence of being belt mounted, but even still, all the round parts of the model are ruined by lines. Also look at the legs. Smooth rounded shins knees and thigh armour destroyed by lines. Those are pretty extreme but they shojld never have been there to begin with, they should have been on the side like most modern kits.

 Deadshot wrote:
Also look at the legs. Smooth rounded shins knees and thigh armour destroyed by lines. Those are pretty extreme but they shojld never have been there to begin with, they should have been on the side like most modern kits.

Honestly, I'm starting to prefer it when the mold-lines are in the center like that. Given the easiest method to remove them is to scrap them with the back end of a hobby knife (or buying that tool from GW as they want you to do), it's much easier to do that if the line is in the center of a smooth area, rather than crammed in a recessed edge.

And it makes the lines MUCH more obvious and thus needed to be addressed. There are tons of players out there that can barely see those lines when they are on the edges, and thus they leave them on. Nothing ruins a decent paint job that a mold-line sticking out.
You and I may be able to spot the line to remove them, but I know of plenty of players that need them to be more obvious so they have to remove them.

-

And I didn’t even notice the lines until you guys mentioned them… wow that is somewhat frustrating to see on a new model like that.

As for the Salamander strat, you can build some very nasty, and well protected, infantry gunline armies for 2000 points.
This strat is really going to hurt opposition gunline armies, even if they have ignore LoS weaponry to clear the mid-field screening units. T’au and Guard for example are going to really struggle if there is a unit of Raven Guard Incursors or Infiltrators hidden in a magic box/behind a terrain piece over 12” away from their main gunline. It also counters the new Iron Hands unkillable ball as well, as you’ll be able to shoot them for the first couple of turns, whereas they won’t be able to retaliate.

Yeah, it seems like it it way better to have a mold line on a smooth surface, rather than going across any kind of detail. But for many of the easy to build type models, they manage to hide the lines pretty well on edges or where pieces layer over each other. The Blackstone Fortress miniatures did a pretty good job with that.

But those ones on Shrike mostly look very easy to remove, except the ones on his gun's grip.

For Shrike specifically the mold lines need to be in the front and back because of the thrusters. All the undercuts on them and above the heel can only work that way as long as the thrusters are not separate bits. And since there's half a bunker on the sprue there is no room for that.

I don't think the mold lines are exceptional for modern GW kits either. They only seem to stand out because of the lighting. They're a very light grey compared to the rest of the model, but on close inspection they don't seem unduly broad or tall. I found them very noticeable the first time I looked at the picture, but going back I think it's just a trick of light.

 Geifer wrote:
For Shrike specifically the mold lines need to be in the front and back because of the thrusters. All the undercuts on them and above the heel can only work that way as long as the thrusters are not separate bits. And since there's half a bunker on the sprue there is no room for that.

I don't think the mold lines are exceptional for modern GW kits either. They only seem to stand out because of the lighting. They're a very light grey compared to the rest of the model, but on close inspection they don't seem unduly broad or tall. I found them very noticeable the first time I looked at the picture, but going back I think it's just a trick of light.

Yeah, they weren't bad at all. It literally just took a brief once-over with the moldline remover.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Yeah, it seems like it it way better to have a mold line on a smooth surface, rather than going across any kind of detail. But for many of the easy to build type models, they manage to hide the lines pretty well on edges or where pieces layer over each other.

And I feel that is very intentional on GW's part. The Easy-Build kits are supposed to be ...easy to build and thus intended for people who have probably never removed mold-lines in their life and may never start.
But Character models like Shrike? You WANT those lines to be obvious because you assume the owner is going to spend time cleaning it up and making it look nice.

So while at first glance, many might say "Oh those lines are awful, what a shame", but viewed from the perspective above, I'd actually say GW should be commended for making those line easy to see and thus easy to remove

-

I am finding that in general GW's placement of mold lines and sprue gates are improved with their newer models. However, there is the occasional, "I am not sure why the placed it there" moments. I don't know the ins and outs of undercutting or other issues that might have caused those moments, but they do happen enough to have me wonder if they could have been avoided or not.

At least they're not putting the attachment points on prominent, concave surfaces anymore like on the necron warriors heads - those are just evil.

Nowadays sometimes I can't even find the mold lines after I've clipped the pieces off the sprues. The ork planes in aeronautica imperialis are amazing for example - hardly a single mold line to remove.

still waiting for the gsc start collecting box, so weird to have it in the codex and not release it even remotely close

 Oguhmek wrote:


Nowadays sometimes I can't even find the mold lines after I've clipped the pieces off the sprues. The ork planes in aeronautica imperialis are amazing for example - hardly a single mold line to remove.

same here, they are some of my favorite recent models.

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I am finding that in general GW's placement of mold lines and sprue gates are improved with their newer models. However, there is the occasional, "I am not sure why the placed it there" moments. I don't know the ins and outs of undercutting or other issues that might have caused those moments, but they do happen enough to have me wonder if they could have been avoided or not.

Nothing will ever beat some of the Privateer Press troll and circle models in 'plastic.' Mold lines over fur. Seriously
And the early Convergence plastic warjacks with mold lines in recessed areas of gearing, which... the physical setup of the sprues to make that happen doesn't even make sense to me.

Voss wrote:

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I am finding that in general GW's placement of mold lines and sprue gates are improved with their newer models. However, there is the occasional, "I am not sure why the placed it there" moments. I don't know the ins and outs of undercutting or other issues that might have caused those moments, but they do happen enough to have me wonder if they could have been avoided or not.

Nothing will ever beat some of the Privateer Press troll and circle models in 'plastic.' Mold lines over fur. Seriously
And the early Convergence plastic warjacks with mold lines in recessed areas of gearing, which... the physical setup of the sprues to make that happen doesn't even make sense to me.

as someone who just started with warmahordes and interesting enough trolls AND convergence I really know what your talking about

I've found that mould lines are pretty much a non-issue these days, which is what makes this latest really obvious one so perplexing.

Man I want to be excited for this but Primaris black Templar just do not do it for me and it's pretty clear these guys will be Primaris. They just don't have that gothic vibe the old upgrade box had. Maybe I'll be proven wrong and they'll do something neat, but I'm not holding my breath.

Here's hoping the orks are good. They need some new minis that aren't yet another buggy.

Of course at this rate they're not going to be together, so I'm less likely to buy the boxes, but since I know a few Space wolf players maybe I'll be able to get some cheap orks.

It's seems unlikely Wolves v Orks. They just had a Wolves set after all.

I for one look forward to primaris models, just because old marines looked so squaty to me and primaris look like true scale. Primaris lore is dumb to be sure though.

Voss wrote:

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I am finding that in general GW's placement of mold lines and sprue gates are improved with their newer models. However, there is the occasional, "I am not sure why the placed it there" moments. I don't know the ins and outs of undercutting or other issues that might have caused those moments, but they do happen enough to have me wonder if they could have been avoided or not.

Nothing will ever beat some of the Privateer Press troll and circle models in 'plastic.' Mold lines over fur. Seriously
And the early Convergence plastic warjacks with mold lines in recessed areas of gearing, which... the physical setup of the sprues to make that happen doesn't even make sense to me.

Three mold lines converging on the center of a model’s face...

 Dranu wrote:
It's seems unlikely Wolves v Orks. They just had a Wolves set after all.

I for one look forward to primaris models, just because old marines looked so squaty to me and primaris look like true scale. Primaris lore is dumb to be sure though.

Latest rumours indicate Wolves v Orks. The French forum goer that suggested this has a very good track record so far.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Dranu wrote:
It's seems unlikely Wolves v Orks. They just had a Wolves set after all.

I for one look forward to primaris models, just because old marines looked so squaty to me and primaris look like true scale. Primaris lore is dumb to be sure though.

Latest rumours indicate Wolves v Orks. The French forum goer that suggested this has a very good track record so far.

And while I'm sure many have had enough of Marines getting models, fact is that with these last few supplements, all First Founding Chapters have at least one Primaris Special Character (or even two in case of the Ultras), while the "special" chapters (DA, BA, SW) only have "generic" lieutenant models as chapter-dedicated characters. I'd expect a SW vs. Orks box to include a new SW Primaris Special Character - probably Ragnar, as his model is ancient.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Dranu wrote:
It's seems unlikely Wolves v Orks. They just had a Wolves set after all.

I for one look forward to primaris models, just because old marines looked so squaty to me and primaris look like true scale. Primaris lore is dumb to be sure though.

Latest rumours indicate Wolves v Orks. The French forum goer that suggested this has a very good track record so far.

I don't doubt it, just saying the idea in itself seems unlikely as they just released two SW things very recently.

 Dranu wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Dranu wrote:
It's seems unlikely Wolves v Orks. They just had a Wolves set after all.

I for one look forward to primaris models, just because old marines looked so squaty to me and primaris look like true scale. Primaris lore is dumb to be sure though.

Latest rumours indicate Wolves v Orks. The French forum goer that suggested this has a very good track record so far.

I don't doubt it, just saying the idea in itself seems unlikely as they just released two SW things very recently.

Kill Team isn't really considered a "Space Wolf" product. The Kill Team included was given a Space Wolf name, but they're intended to be used by any Marine players.

Prior to that, the most recent Space Wolf release was Tooth and Claw.
The Primaris Space Wolf set is just a repack of Tooth and Claw's contents(Aggressors x3, Intercessors x5, Redemptor, Battle Leader) with the Redemptor dropped in favor of another 5 Intercessors.

No Imperial Fists rules leaks? The Salamanders leaked stratagem was awesome (and controversial in its OP potential).
Speaking of which, I may be a fool for it but I kind of hope IF get a stratagem for deepstriking Gravis infantry. Among the First Founding Chapters, they always had a thing for terminator assaults, and they are fleet-based. It could give a new tool for Primaris only players, make Agressors more flexible and Gravis characters more viable.
Plus, deepstriking Tor Garadon would be a force to be reckoned.

Make it 2 points. I don't mind. But please make them the new Terminators they should have always been

It is pretty annoying that the Imperial Fists leaks haven't come. The individual that leaked the Salamanders stuff has shown a picture of both books. All we have is an incomplete picture of the points values and Garadon. Where are the rest?!