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 NAVARRO wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
[ They've poured effort, time, money, and expertise into their work that GW couldn't possibly match, even with an unlimited budget. Money can't buy time.

Say what? Money can and will buy expertise! Thats the point? An expert has spent his own time becoming an expert thats why they cost serious money.

GW may choose not to spend money on that but they could match and surpass, by a long mile, YouTube videos quality.

They could, sure. But will they?
I was amused by the war com article on 'loremasters' for focusing on how the talking head has been with the studio (in an undisclosed role) for about 12 years, and he talks to the writers sometimes. That's it.

Presumably he has some sort of camera presence (haven't ever seen him speak, myself), but the article definitely took no pains to set him up as an actual warhammer lore expert.

He hosted Voxcast...


He's done a lot of their "on camera" stuff. But he hasn't been involved with their livestreams for a bit since he's had medical issues.

I tried to wait to binge the Angels of Death thing, but I got impatient.

I think my biggest problem with Angels of Death is that there seems to be a good deal of no dialogue in alot of shots where its just a face/helmet. The Helsreach movie, obviously built from ADB’s great novel, had Grimaldus giving his inner thoughts throughout. I think this product would’ve been better served with the same sort of treatment from the main Blood Angel(The Deatwatch guy) and the female ship captain.

I also really like the blood droplets becoming Drop-pods opening sequence.

I think it's weird that the drop pods didn't make any attempt to slow down. They didn't fire their retros and just slammed into the ground.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think it's weird that the drop pods didn't make any attempt to slow down. They didn't fire their retros and just slammed into the ground.

Even the drop pods get +1 to wound the turn they charge.

 phandaal wrote:
GW said they weren't including people's names for that reason, or at least they said that's why they stopped back in the day.

They can say that, but it's almost certainly to prevent their employees from resume-building, getting name recognition, and finding jobs elsewhere.

That works in UK? Weird laws there. Here that wouldn't really work by law regardless of do GW put names visible or not.

 Gert wrote:
Luetin or any other YT Channel didn't have to make a service in the first place, nor are they restricted in what they can do by either employment laws or Covid restrictions.
WH+ might not be brilliant but you can't just say "but GW has loads of money" as justification for your arguments.

GW said it was the best 'warhammer content ever'

Yet there's no AOS animation

"But covid" is no justification

 Ouze wrote:

But if you do an apples-to-apples comparison, Disney Plus almost the same price, and gives you uncountable hours of high-end, expertly produced content. It sounds to me like Warhammer Plus is delivering... 40 minutes a week of new content, is that accurate? And you can gobble up the pre-existing stuff they put on there in an afternoon? Please correct me if I am wrong, I surely could be... and I'd like to be. I'd love a good execution in the premise.

That is not an apples to apples comparison, Disney+ is a mainstream service with millions of subscribers, Warhammer+ is a niche market that is never going to have anything like that number of subscribers. Producing content at a particular level is going to cost the same regardless of whether you have 10 subscribers or 10 million and the costs of hosting etc. for having the extra subscribers is going to be be pretty minimal in comparison, so WH+ is never going to have the same sort of money to spend on content.

Also, the vast majority of the content on Disney+ was (and still is) existing content that Disney already owned, as they've been working in that field for far longer than GW have even existed (and have bought everyone else in that field as well!). How much original content was there on Disney+ when it launched, a few episodes of The Mandalorian? Anything else? Even now the amount of original Disney+ content is dwarfed by the back catalogue stuff.

Tavis75 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

But if you do an apples-to-apples comparison, Disney Plus almost the same price, and gives you uncountable hours of high-end, expertly produced content. It sounds to me like Warhammer Plus is delivering... 40 minutes a week of new content, is that accurate? And you can gobble up the pre-existing stuff they put on there in an afternoon? Please correct me if I am wrong, I surely could be... and I'd like to be. I'd love a good execution in the premise.

That is not an apples to apples comparison, Disney+ is a mainstream service with millions of subscribers, Warhammer+ is a niche market that is never going to have anything like that number of subscribers. Producing content at a particular level is going to cost the same regardless of whether you have 10 subscribers or 10 million and the costs of hosting etc. for having the extra subscribers is going to be be pretty minimal in comparison, so WH+ is never going to have the same sort of money to spend on content.

Also, the vast majority of the content on Disney+ was (and still is) existing content that Disney already owned, as they've been working in that field for far longer than GW have even existed (and have bought everyone else in that field as well!). How much original content was there on Disney+ when it launched, a few episodes of The Mandalorian? Anything else? Even now the amount of original Disney+ content is dwarfed by the back catalogue stuff.

Who cares.

GW said "best warhammer content ever".
It could not even deliver something for AOS

Absolute joke

Tavis75 wrote:

How much original content was there on Disney+ when it launched, a few episodes of The Mandalorian? Anything else?

In addition to the mandalorian (which averaged 40 minutes per episode) they did
a) a mockumentary (about 35 minutes per episode)
b) 6 series of shorts (about 8 minutes per episode, on average, per 6)
c) about 4 docuseries (one with 60 minutes per episode, 3 of 25 minutes per episode, on average)
d) a reality show (60 minutes per episode.)

So, during the first month of disney+, the original content ascended to:

mandalorian: 40x4= 160
mockumentary: 35x4= 140
shorts: 8x4x6= 192
docuseries: 60x4+ 3x4x25= 540
reality show= 60 x 4= 240

Or, in total: 160+140+192+540+240 = 1272 minutes of material or, in other words, 21 hours of newly made material... which must be combined with the gargantuan back catalogue they had.

Warhammer+? By the end of the month we will have 4 hours of content. Period. It doesn't compare. Specially once one realizes disney+ has been ramping up its original material: 6 dramas and 6 comedies, 5 animations and much, much more are coming to disney+. The growth is exponential, something we don't know warhammer+ will do.

But I have to say this is the most disingenous argument I've ever seen. The fact that whether the series/films available are new to the platform are of no relevance. What matters is that they are available for the paying customers. Why is this such a hard to grasp concept? I haven't seen mary poppins in my life. I don't care if it's not original to disney+, i will be able to easily watch it thanks to the platform.

Again, no one was forcing gw to try and play the streaming service game. If they had made an arrangement with either of the big three services, everything would have been fine, and people would have been spared the drama.

EDIT: oh wait, i forgot most disney+ series release most of their chapters in one go, so the comparison is even more dire for gw.

Spared the drama?

There's a service, you can get it or not. You feel it's worth it or not.

Hardly like the world is ending.

Vorian wrote:
Spared the drama?

There's a service, you can get it or not. You feel it's worth it or not.

Hardly like the world is ending.

I am more referring to the debacle with SODAZ and the issue with midwinter. I personally don't care that much about the service, because i find it's pretty bad. But it bothers masively how people are making so many gymnastics to consider it unironically good XD

Lord Kragan wrote:

Tavis75 wrote:

How much original content was there on Disney+ when it launched, a few episodes of The Mandalorian? Anything else?

In addition to the mandalorian (which averaged 40 minutes per episode) they did
a) a mockumentary (about 35 minutes per episode)
b) 6 series of shorts (about 8 minutes per episode, on average, per 6)
c) about 4 docuseries (one with 60 minutes per episode, 3 of 25 minutes per episode, on average)
d) a reality show (60 minutes per episode.)

So, during the first month of disney+, the original content ascended to:

mandalorian: 40x4= 160
mockumentary: 35x4= 140
shorts: 8x4x6= 192
docuseries: 60x4+ 3x4x25= 540
reality show= 60 x 4= 240

Or, in total: 160+140+192+540+240 = 1272 minutes of material or, in other words, 21 hours of newly made material... which must be combined with the gargantuan back catalogue they had.

Warhammer+? By the end of the month we will have 4 hours of content. Period. It doesn't compare. Specially once one realizes disney+ has been ramping up its original material: 6 dramas and 6 comedies, 5 animations and much, much more are coming to disney+. The growth is exponential, something we don't know warhammer+ will do.

But I have to say this is the most disingenous argument I've ever seen. The fact that whether the series/films available are new to the platform are of no relevance. What matters is that they are available for the paying customers. Why is this such a hard to grasp concept? I haven't seen mary poppins in my life. I don't care if it's not original to disney+, i will be able to easily watch it thanks to the platform.

Again, no one was forcing gw to try and play the streaming service game. If they had made an arrangement with either of the big three services, everything would have been fine, and people would have been spared the drama.

EDIT: oh wait, i forgot most disney+ series release most of their chapters in one go, so the comparison is even more dire for gw.

I don't have Disney+ or WH+, just want to add a different viewpoint:
The raw amount of content might not be as big of a factor as it is discussed here. You could give me 1€/month access to every video, book, novel, audio drama and video game ever made that features "fishing" as the main topic and it wouldn't be worth it for me, as I simply have no interest in it.
It doesn't matter if what you offer is objectively a really good offer, when the person you want to sell it doesn't want it.

I think the "competitors" we should compare WH+ to is the free and paid content already available on Youtube and other sources. At the moment the amount of Warhammer content is definitely lacking, quantity wise. At the same time it is not much money per month, either.
People can decide for themselves, wether the cost to content ratio is alright for them. I think if you are only interested in specific parts like only Battle Reports, you won't miss out if you don't subscribe and keep watching Youtube stuff.

Tavis75 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

But if you do an apples-to-apples comparison, Disney Plus almost the same price, and gives you uncountable hours of high-end, expertly produced content. It sounds to me like Warhammer Plus is delivering... 40 minutes a week of new content, is that accurate? And you can gobble up the pre-existing stuff they put on there in an afternoon? Please correct me if I am wrong, I surely could be... and I'd like to be. I'd love a good execution in the premise.

That is not an apples to apples comparison, Disney+ is a mainstream service with millions of subscribers, Warhammer+ is a niche market that is never going to have anything like that number of subscribers.

So what? The price points are fairly similar so it seems reasonable to compare and the comparison doesn't look good for WH+.

Slipspace wrote:

Tavis75 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

But if you do an apples-to-apples comparison, Disney Plus almost the same price, and gives you uncountable hours of high-end, expertly produced content. It sounds to me like Warhammer Plus is delivering... 40 minutes a week of new content, is that accurate? And you can gobble up the pre-existing stuff they put on there in an afternoon? Please correct me if I am wrong, I surely could be... and I'd like to be. I'd love a good execution in the premise.

That is not an apples to apples comparison, Disney+ is a mainstream service with millions of subscribers, Warhammer+ is a niche market that is never going to have anything like that number of subscribers.

So what? The price points are fairly similar so it seems reasonable to compare and the comparison doesn't look good for WH+.

Does disney+ offer miniature? Voucher? App? Vault?

Warhammer+ isn't just streaming service you know. But hey let's be dishonest Nothing beats arqument like dishonest one.

Yes there are D+ Miniatures/Toys, App and Voucher

tneva82 wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

Tavis75 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

But if you do an apples-to-apples comparison, Disney Plus almost the same price, and gives you uncountable hours of high-end, expertly produced content. It sounds to me like Warhammer Plus is delivering... 40 minutes a week of new content, is that accurate? And you can gobble up the pre-existing stuff they put on there in an afternoon? Please correct me if I am wrong, I surely could be... and I'd like to be. I'd love a good execution in the premise.

That is not an apples to apples comparison, Disney+ is a mainstream service with millions of subscribers, Warhammer+ is a niche market that is never going to have anything like that number of subscribers.

So what? The price points are fairly similar so it seems reasonable to compare and the comparison doesn't look good for WH+.

Does disney+ offer miniature? Voucher? App? Vault?

Warhammer+ isn't just streaming service you know. But hey let's be dishonest Nothing beats arqument like dishonest one.

GW themselves marketed WH+ as a streaming service. Maybe you'd prefer to compare to Prime Video, which also comes with Amazon Prime membership, free Twitch subs, exclusive Prime member deals etc? The principle is the same - the price points are similar enough to compare the two services and WH+ seems woefully short of cntent right now for a similar price, especially if you don't get much value out of the extras.

Vorian wrote:
Spared the drama?

There's a service, you can get it or not. You feel it's worth it or not.

Hardly like the world is ending.

People commenting about service, you can read those comments or not

Hardly like the world is ending

Dunno mate, got something to do with GW getting it arse backwards.

You underpromise and overdeliver to wow the crowd, not overpromise and underdeliver.

 GoldenHorde wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Spared the drama?

There's a service, you can get it or not. You feel it's worth it or not.

Hardly like the world is ending.

People commenting about service, you can read those comments or not

Hardly like the world is ending

Dunno mate, got something to do with GW getting it arse backwards.

You underpromise and overdeliver to wow the crowd, not overpromise and underdeliver.

I'm saying people not finding something to their liking is not drama, not saying you can't complain.

I personally find the little over £1 a month fine for what there is. I would like a painting video each week, a battle report each week and I agree with some of the ideas for beefing up Loremasters we've had here - but in general it's cheap and a few weeks old.

I have Disney+ and I have Warhammer+.

Disney+ is £7.99 a month or £79.90 for the year.

Warhammer+ is £4.99 a month or £49.99 or the year.

However, Warhammer+ came with a mini worth £20 and a £10 voucher, so actually £19.99 for the year.

Which works out at £1.67 a month.

Significantly cheaper than Disney+

However, I was previously paying £1.99 for the 40K app per month which means, for me, Warhammer+ is free.

In terms of content, I subscribed to Disney+ for the Mandalorian, MCU and Star.

I watch maybe 2-3 hours per week on Disney+.

I won't lie, the video content on Warhammer+ is less than I expected, but is probably about 1-2 hours per week but I also have access to the vault and the app.

So for me, personally, Warhammer+ is much better value for money than Disney+.

Personally I was only interested in the advertised streaming service, and the rest don't do anything to me. For that, subbing month to month is simply not an interesting proposition.

But it will probably be worth to sub a month a year to binge it.

Jarms48 wrote:
I'm not getting it. I might wait for a year and then by a single month to binge watch everything. That's about it.

Same here -- I suspect it'd take way less than a month to binge the lot anyway!

Slipspace wrote:
GW themselves marketed WH+ as a streaming service.

They didn't though. It was clear since day one that streamed content was just one part of the overall product:

What is Warhammer+?
Warhammer+ is a subscription service for Warhammer fans. It’s a whole new way to explore the worlds of Warhammer, where you’ll find original animations and shows, access to Warhammer apps, a digital vault packed with lore and magazines, subscriber offers, and exclusive miniatures. There’s something in Warhammer+ for every hobbyist.

What’s included in a Warhammer+ subscription?
An ever-growing collection of animated Warhammer series
Weekly Warhammer TV shows featuring Battle Reports, lore investigations, and painting masterclasses
A digital vault of Warhammer lore and magazines
Subscriber access to Warhammer apps, including Warhammer 40,000: The App and Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
Premium access to our official events
Exclusive subscriber offers
A free, exclusive Citadel miniature every year, and the opportunity to buy a second, different exclusive miniature as well
As time goes on, even more features will be added to your subscription

For anyone not using any of the other features, then WH+ is unlikely to be good value solely for streaming.

They emphasized the animations and shows from day one in all promotional materials. They let you watch one free episode of hammer and sickle, not free issue of old WD.

Not got it yet but might do in a few months

The money is insignifcant (to me) but not alot there yet especialyl since no interest in painting etc tutorials.

Was(still) hoping for some animated versions of the AOS cartoons as I enjoy those
Such a shame Josh Reynolds not there to write some stories.
Be nice if they tied in with Cubicle 7 re the rpg stuff - they seem to be working very closely
Get Becca Scott in to play some games - that would be cool (for me at least)

Wow, are we comparing GW and Disney now?

Maybe it's time to move this thread to General Discussion?

I think what makes people frustrated about Warhammer + is that it is simply one more incredibly underwhelming GW product that is purposefully hamstrung by GW in the perceived interests of their business strategy.

Time and time again GW release products where they search for the bare minimum amount of resources to be invested into a product that then scrapes the ceiling of the absolute maximum price point (for example all the terrible video games they release, or the barely edited print rules material such as the KT compendium).

The difference here is that animations are an art form where talent can really shine through even on a low budget. Based upon the animations GW has released thus far, its obvious they're not particularly interested in producing stellar quality animations.

They just want to ram whatever they can out the door as cheaply as possible. That is their own mistake to make and it remains to be seen whether or not they will pay for that in the long run.

All I know is that if their studio cannot scrape together animations that look even half as good as anime from the 1970s, they've really started thing off on the wrong foot.

 Oguhmek wrote:
Wow, are we comparing GW and Disney now?

Maybe it's time to move this thread to General Discussion?

No, we are comparing streaming services that are relatively closely priced and the value they offer for said comparable price.

I understand Disney has a huge back catalog, unspeakable financial resources, and so on. But, the flipside of this is GWS had no pressure to start a streaming service at all, or right now when they didn't have time to develop launch content.

If you can't deliver nearly the same value, you maybe shouldn't charge nearly the same price. If Games Workshop starts selling Warhammer Coffee and it's only an ounce per cup, they can't maybe shouldn't charge $4.50 a cup.

The only real differentiator is the mini, which is a fair argument and one I had forgotten to factor. For me personally it's not worth it but of course that's gonna vary very much by the person.

My real frustration is not in W+ per se, but that Games Workshop consistently has these great opportunities to expand the universe and always cheaps out/halfasses it and ultimately, I think, damages the brand a bit. I think most gamers now associate Warhammer video games with lousy quality because of all the budget shovelware they licensed, despite KNOWING how that works when Nintendo did that with the Wii - for every Total War, there are 20 mobile-quality games it seems.

The talking heads for lore is the exact same kind of half assed penny pinching. They have an incredible library of art assets, and they could have leveraged that. They could have done non-complex but still visually impressive animation by partially animating still images (like this or this, which they already do).

It's just frustrating more than anything. I'll have to revisit it in a year or so when they finally have built up a library, ie, when they should have launched.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think it's weird that the drop pods didn't make any attempt to slow down. They didn't fire their retros and just slammed into the ground.

Because it's more metal this way!

I'm joking, but that might actually be the reason. Compared to the larger variety we got from Hammer and Bolter thus far, Angels of Death seems to go the bolter porn route pretty heavily. The creator might be looking to create something impactful to match. In this case literally.

Isn't that also how Drop Pods were depicted in Dawn of War? No retro boosters, just hitting with full force and scattering whatever stands close?

 Mr Morden wrote:
The money is insignifcant (to me) but not alot there yet especialyl since no interest in painting etc tutorials.

It's funny. I have much the same attitude towards the painting tutorials, but since I'm paying for them I'm going to watch them regardless. You never know, I might actually learn something in the process.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Was(still) hoping for some animated versions of the AOS cartoons as I enjoy those

It's striking how pretty much the entire thing is currently about 40k. That doesn't personally affect me as I'm currently more interested in 40k, but you would think a little more even distribution between 40k and AoS would be desirable to GW. Yeah, 40k is more popular. Yeah, there's the risk that with the very limited updates we get, getting more AoS would result in getting less 40k and that might cause some complaints. And it doesn't even look like GW is tying the released content in with the miniature and book releases of that week, which would at least serve as an adequate explanation for lopsidedness.

So perhaps not a one for one release schedule, but at least something each week to not give the AoS fans the impression that they're considered irrelevant.

It's a weird move by GW.