So we know that they're not using Heresy organisation. There's only 2 lieutenants per company (battle company-so reserves either don't have lieutenants or don't exist any more).
lord_blackfang wrote: That looks like a plus sized Razorback that randomly has a bunch of extra guns on it because everything has a bunch of extra guns on it nowadays and Land Raiders cry themselves to sleep every night.
I'm shaking my head at the kind of wrong information people around here keep spewing and the amount of assumptions that's been preached as truth...
kronk wrote: I have been buying the old 3rd edition rhinos off eBay.
There is no such thing as '3rd edition rhino's', there have been two plastic kits for Rhino's, the one from the Rogue Trader days and the one we have now. The same is true for the Landraider.
macluvin wrote: Jokes on all the space marine players chaos wont get a fully updated range so we get to keep our old space marines in their current scale
Space Marines stay in their current scale. Only Primaris Marines are bigger, just like the Terminator marines weren't bigger Space Marines, they are a different unit.
Now, we might see Primaris Space Marines replacing regular Space Marines completely, but I seriously doubt that. For one, that is a ways off, they need to do so many things for the plastic range and fans only have so many money to spend at one time. GW would milk that for all it's worth, if that ever happens, it's still years off. But I honestly doubt it, I see a lot of potential for conflict between chapters over the Primaris Marines. Possibilities for corruption, etc. Ever wonder why the iconagraphy for the new rulebook is a Primaris helmet that has been corrupted on the left half? I do...
Also, the HH game will still have all the SM in the 'old' size, that's getting more popular. Having crossover units between them guarentees more sales for GW, so phasing them out in 40k is very unlikely.
@Someone who said that Lieutenants are new to Space Marines: They are not, back in the Rogue Trader days we had them. They were there so that not every battle was commanded by a captain.
NivlacSupreme wrote: So we know that they're not using Heresy organisation. There's only 2 lieutenants per company (battle company-so reserves either don't have lieutenants or don't exist any more).
Ugh, if Guiliman thinks he can send my Crimson Fists a bunch of Marines with messed up heraldry, he's got another thing coming. No special helmet colors, no Company markings, just veterans with a red right fist.
NivlacSupreme wrote: So we know that they're not using Heresy organisation. There's only 2 lieutenants per company (battle company-so reserves either don't have lieutenants or don't exist any more).
What I'd like to know how primaris with their smaller squad sizes fit into the company. Will there be twenty squads now?
NivlacSupreme wrote: So we know that they're not using Heresy organisation. There's only 2 lieutenants per company (battle company-so reserves either don't have lieutenants or don't exist any more).
I am the only one who thinks that looks like a football helmet?
I was reading the explanation of the new teleportation on the Nurgle lord and it says that you can teleport at the end of the moving phase anywhere on the battlefield but at least 9" from an enemy model. So no more scattering, how this will work with the Mawloc?
Emicrania wrote: I was reading the explanation of the new teleportation on the Nurgle lord and it says that you can teleport at the end of the moving phase anywhere on the battlefield but at least 9" from an enemy model. So no more scattering, how this will work with the Mawloc?
Personally I'd just design it to deep strike directly into assault, maybe with a mortal wound on charge mechanism.
I mean, not a big fan of mortal wounds as a concept, but causing them on a charge is a pretty standard thing so consistency.
Emicrania wrote: I was reading the explanation of the new teleportation on the Nurgle lord and it says that you can teleport at the end of the moving phase anywhere on the battlefield but at least 9" from an enemy model. So no more scattering, how this will work with the Mawloc?
Personally I'd just design it to deep strike directly into assault, maybe with a mortal wound on charge mechanism.
I mean, not a big fan of mortal wounds as a concept, but causing them on a charge is a pretty standard thing so consistency.
That sound pretty neat to me,especially considering my Mawloc gave me more headaches than joy the last years.
Future War Cultist wrote: So with five men to a squad and the old tactical, assault and devastator load outs seemingly gone, did Roboute rewrite his book?
It's the only issue I have with the new marines. Tiny squad sizes and limited weapons. I can live with it though.
And ATSKNF is a battleshock reroll? Yes, that works for me!
Don't worry, you can still take four plasma cannons and a combi-plas if you like.
Might even be more versatile and cheaper: Shoot at any range and no paying for an extra attack and wound.
It's the only issue I have with the new marines. Tiny squad sizes and limited weapons. I can live with it though.
Tiny squad sizes is an advantage in this edition. Short of Negative Leadership effects 5 man teams of Marines are almost immune to battleshock. If you kill 4 of the 5 there is a 90% chance the 5th guy will not die to Battleshock. The biggest downside to Primaris Marines is the Hellblasters. They are too good, and too expensive not to get focus fired out of existance. If you can eventually make squads with one Plasma Rifle and 4 Bolt Rifles, that will be the way to go. But that may be exactly why GW chose to organize them they way they did.
Minor edit due to not realizing Primaris Marine Sgts had one higher LDR. Figured they wouldn't because they wouldn't have vets yet... silly me.
I can't be crazy in thinking it quite obviously has tank treads, am I? So many people are trying to say it's a grav vehicle online, but absolutely nothing seems to indicate that.
A crazy thought about the tank: look at those square metallic plates in front (and more peculiarly) at the sides of the vehicle.
They remind me of the antigrav plates on many imperial hover vehicles.
Could it be a grav-tank?
I mean probably not, it otherwise doesn't look like it at all, but who knows.
Good spot - i recon the model makers have read the threads arguing why the landraider design wouldn't work in real life "too heavy, no ground clearance!"
changemod wrote: Don't worry, you can still take four plasma cannons and a combi-plas if you like.
Might even be more versatile and cheaper: Shoot at any range and no paying for an extra attack and wound.
These will be a lot better now that overheating is more manageable.
Justyn wrote: Tiny squad sizes is an advantage in this edition. Short of Negative Leadership effects 5 man teams of Marines are almost immune to battleshock. If you kill 4 of the 5 there is a 90% chance the 5th guy will not die to Battleshock. The biggest downside to Primaris Marines is the Hellblasters. They are too good, and too expensive not to get focus fired out of existance. If you can eventually make squads with one Plasma Rifle and 4 Bolt Rifles, that will be the way to go. But that may be exactly why GW chose to organize them they way they did.
Minor edit due to not realizing Primaris Marine Sgts had one higher LDR. Figured they wouldn't because they wouldn't have vets yet... silly me.
You're right. With four marines dead you'd still need to roll 4+ (with a reroll, which becomes 5+ if it's the Sergeant) to have the last one flee.
About the new tank:
Is it me or do those plates on its side resemble the plates on the side of the Landspeeder?
At first glance I thought that was a Battletech Thunderbolt. (Thunder something could have gotten the name wrong been ages since I played. )
Thunderbolt is correct and yes it does down to the missile launcher.
I think it'd be a lot better if the shape and bulge of the chestplate didn't make him look like a walking codpiece.
Still like it, just gonna need to do something with that front armor plate.
Is that a skyhammer rocket in his pocket or is he happy to see me?
I honestly am not a fan. Glad people are enjoying it, for me though, aside from not liking the proportions (seriously, the legs look terrible and his body is bizarre) what I am turned off by the most are the fact that he is not grim dark AT ALL. I mean, all his weapons and plates and what not have that current day real life modern look. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see that canon on the nose of an A-10. The rocket pack also doesn't look like a space marine or 40k weapon, again it looks like it could be on a present modern day vehicle. He is a blatant riup off of the laviaten as well, I mean holy shat, the guy has ALL the same weapon hard links but done much worse.
Also, what the literal feth? That guy is dread knight sized, how are people not discussing that fact. Look at the hellbrute next to it, that thing has shorter limbs but definitely at least the mass of a dreadknight, I would guess he will make my Decemator Engines look small.
Also why on earth does that sarcophagus has a gorget?
warboss wrote: Do Adeptus Restartes have access to chainswords? I was looking at the pics and I noticed there were no primaris models shown with them in the starter.
Why bring chainswords, power weapons or heretic for the Primaris.
warboss wrote: Do Adeptus Restartes have access to chainswords? I was looking at the pics and I noticed there were no primaris models shown with them in the starter.
I am sure that will come later. The Inceptors will get a box with a chainsword variant I am sure. I would bet every box is 5 man dual kits for $60ish.
What happened to our daily 40k articles? We didn't get one yesterday (just a faction focus which are usually in addition to the article) and there still isn't one up for today.
warboss wrote: Do Adeptus Restartes have access to chainswords? I was looking at the pics and I noticed there were no primaris models shown with them in the starter.
Why bring chainswords, power weapons or heretic for the Primaris.
Why bring a bolter? I bet they just get a chain sabre or some such crap and it will add more attacks and have an ap -1 just like every other weapon they have.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
docdoom77 wrote: What happened to our daily 40k articles? We didn't get one yesterday (just a faction focus which are usually in addition to the article) and there still isn't one up for today.
I am guessing we are just going to get coverage of the event in place of the normal info.
warboss wrote: Do Adeptus Restartes have access to chainswords? I was looking at the pics and I noticed there were no primaris models shown with them in the starter.
Sadly, they currently don't. I hope that once we get multipart kits they'll get some. It is an iconic marine weapon.
warboss wrote: Do Adeptus Restartes have access to chainswords? I was looking at the pics and I noticed there were no primaris models shown with them in the starter.
Sadly, they currently don't. I hope that once we get multipart kits they'll get some. It is an iconic marine weapon.
Just use the evicerator off the current assault marine kit. I bet ebay is full of them.
warboss wrote: Do Adeptus Restartes have access to chainswords? I was looking at the pics and I noticed there were no primaris models shown with them in the starter.
Sadly, they currently don't. I hope that once we get multipart kits they'll get some. It is an iconic marine weapon.
I hope so as well. Despite my dislike of the hamfisted way they're cramming them into the setting, I do like the models and would like to make a small skirmish level force consisting of a combat squad with tradition weapons including a chainsword for the sergeant.
Tyel wrote: Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.
Has there ever been fair starter sets? 3rd was worst with invincible unit in there but all have been unbalanced.
there should be another objectives sprue with the mini-drop pod and the medical chair. you can see the drop pod window and the chair's light on the clear part of the first sprue (Those objectives are begging for LEDs!)
Escape Pod comes with the option to have it crashed and embedded, or intact.
And apparently, the chair fits the Reaver Titan Princeps!
And here's two bonus photos of the Redemptor chassis, showing off some previously unshared (I think) weapons. Missile or a rockets in the sarcophagus, and some rotary weapon on the Power Fist
The new dread looks like a decent re-imagining of the old-school dread, I like everything about him except the overly massive codpiece armor and the weedy legs. With some modifications, I think it would look 100x better.
Alpharius wrote: If the one on the right is about the same size, I'll be using that as a good 'counts as' option as to me it just looks so much better...
It even has all the same hard points! Arm with one big gun or a fist with a small gun, two nipple guns, top mount.
What do you all think of the new deployment? Is alternating deploying units better than the old style? I would always try and deploy second with my guard army to counter deploy. Now each player can counter deploy. (or has this been talked about already?)
Was there a time when Forge World wasn't superior to standard GW models? I mean since there has been a Forge World.
What do you all think of the new deployment? Is alternating deploying units better than the old style? I would always try and deploy second with my guard army to counter deploy. Now each player can counter deploy. (or has this been talked about already?)
This is a huge step forward. Now if they would only go to an alternating activation game.
portugus wrote: What do you all think of the new deployment? Is alternating deploying units better than the old style? I would always try and deploy second with my guard army to counter deploy. Now each player can counter deploy. (or has this been talked about already?)
At least the legs on the new ones seem longer, although they do have that 'legs spread' look that most GW models seem to adopt.
Despite all the upscaling going on, I'm still looking forward to this edition. I just can't understand the abuse Mantic take over 'stumpy legs' from gw fans.
Anyone know if the new dread will have all the weapon options possible with it?
Why do Primaris even have Dreadnoughts? They're intended to preserve culture and tactical experience, right? Any Marine inside a Primaris Dreadnought right now was pretty much born yesterday and killed in his first mission. Truly worth saving!
lord_blackfang wrote: Why do Primaris even have Dreadnoughts? They're intended to preserve culture and tactical experience, right? Any Marine inside a Primaris Dreadnought right now was pretty much born yesterday and killed in his first mission. Truly worth saving!
You can't be applying lore-logic when there's new miniatures to sell!
At this point I'm just dropping any interest in fluff, it makes things easier.
lord_blackfang wrote: Why do Primaris even have Dreadnoughts? They're intended to preserve culture and tactical experience, right? Any Marine inside a Primaris Dreadnought right now was pretty much born yesterday and killed in his first mission. Truly worth saving!
Devil's advocate since I'm on record disliking all this stuff but see a justification here regardless:
Nobody said that you need to be primaris to be interred in a Redemptor, just that Cawl made a new dreadnought design to go with the rest of his project.
In fact I can't imagine it matters in the slightest what kind of marine you are to be interred in whatever dreadnought chassis, so long as you have a black carapace to interface with it.
lord_blackfang wrote: Why do Primaris even have Dreadnoughts? They're intended to preserve culture and tactical experience, right? Any Marine inside a Primaris Dreadnought right now was pretty much born yesterday and killed in his first mission. Truly worth saving!
Devil's advocate since I'm on record disliking all this stuff but see a justification here regardless:
Nobody said that you need to be primaris to be interred in a Redemptor, just that Cawl made a new dreadnought design to go with the rest of his project.
In fact I can't imagine it matters in the slightest what kind of marine you are to be interred in whatever dreadnought chassis, so long as you have a black carapace to interface with it.
This.
But this idea that the primaris are all newbies keeps constantly coming up. It is not true! They said that existing marines can be upgraded into primaris. Some of the officercs/NCOs shown have service studs. They're not newbies.
lord_blackfang wrote: Why do Primaris even have Dreadnoughts? They're intended to preserve culture and tactical experience, right? Any Marine inside a Primaris Dreadnought right now was pretty much born yesterday and killed in his first mission. Truly worth saving!
You can't be applying lore-logic when there's new miniatures to sell!
At this point I'm just dropping any interest in fluff, it makes things easier.
Actually you can apply lore logic!
Regular marines can be upgraded to primars, ergo a dreadnought of this type contains an upgraded primaris!
Aw, isn't that cute? Dreadnought looks like he's wearing metal diapers.
I'm just happy that GW is finally putting out models that I have no interest in buying. Not slamming anyone else's taste, but I have zero interest in any of the new marine aesthetic so far. Such a huge relief to my wallet.
lord_blackfang wrote: Why do Primaris even have Dreadnoughts? They're intended to preserve culture and tactical experience, right? Any Marine inside a Primaris Dreadnought right now was pretty much born yesterday and killed in his first mission. Truly worth saving!
firstly, the project has been under development for 10k years. Second, Cawl could have done live combat tests quarantined from the rest of the imperium, especially if assaulting ork held territory.
portugus wrote: What do you all think of the new deployment? Is alternating deploying units better than the old style? I would always try and deploy second with my guard army to counter deploy. Now each player can counter deploy. (or has this been talked about already?)
It's actually another throwback to older editions (3rd I believe). The only difference being that previously you were required to set up units in a specific order. Something along the lines of Heavy Support>Elites>Troops>Fast Attack. I kind of like it honestly. Still plenty of room for cat and mouse shenanigans, but less all or nothing.
lord_blackfang wrote: Why do Primaris even have Dreadnoughts? They're intended to preserve culture and tactical experience, right? Any Marine inside a Primaris Dreadnought right now was pretty much born yesterday and killed in his first mission. Truly worth saving!
You can't be applying lore-logic when there's new miniatures to sell!
At this point I'm just dropping any interest in fluff, it makes things easier.
Actually you can apply lore logic!
Regular marines can be upgraded to primars, ergo a dreadnought of this type contains an upgraded primaris!
Wow, who would have thought!
we also don't know what the start date for 8th edition will be. for all we know 8th edition is decades if not centuries after the events of GS3
Ungainly, dumpy and ugly in a bad way. Not ungainly and ugly in a good way like the boxnaught. The Boxnaught has a brutish simplicity to it's design that makes it effective.
That new thing isn't awe inspiring at all. And it's laughable compared to the Leviathan.
It looks like something out of the Star Wars prequels.
lord_blackfang wrote: Why do Primaris even have Dreadnoughts? They're intended to preserve culture and tactical experience, right? Any Marine inside a Primaris Dreadnought right now was pretty much born yesterday and killed in his first mission. Truly worth saving!
Devil's advocate since I'm on record disliking all this stuff but see a justification here regardless:
Nobody said that you need to be primaris to be interred in a Redemptor, just that Cawl made a new dreadnought design to go with the rest of his project.
In fact I can't imagine it matters in the slightest what kind of marine you are to be interred in whatever dreadnought chassis, so long as you have a black carapace to interface with it.
This.
But this idea that the primaris are all newbies keeps constantly coming up. It is not true! They said that existing marines can be upgraded into primaris. Some of the officercs/NCOs shown have service studs. They're not newbies.
I think they're likely to have fluff that at least some of the Redemptors are older dreadnoughts that have been upgraded. Look at the top part of the sarcophagus. To me, it appears that this is the exact same as the the current dreadnought. It's just layered over with a bunch of additional armor plating. In some of the shots, you can even see that it appears there's a crux terminatus symbol on the front of the upper sarcophagus that's partially obscured by that armored collar. I think it's supposed to look like a standard dreadnought core integrated into a new design. My guess is that the old dreadnought sarcophagus and all the associated life-support systems of the old design is supposed to be plug-and-play with this new dread.
lord_blackfang wrote: Why do Primaris even have Dreadnoughts? They're intended to preserve culture and tactical experience, right? Any Marine inside a Primaris Dreadnought right now was pretty much born yesterday and killed in his first mission. Truly worth saving!
While its being released along side them its not a Primaris exclusive dread? The sarcophagus is the same style as the one on the current box dread so its probably a "regular" Marine(or what's left of one) inside. Really I think that while the full Primaris dex will allow you to make a viable army solo, its essentially going to be vol2 of Codex Space marines.
lord_blackfang wrote: Why do Primaris even have Dreadnoughts? They're intended to preserve culture and tactical experience, right? Any Marine inside a Primaris Dreadnought right now was pretty much born yesterday and killed in his first mission. Truly worth saving!
While its being released along side them its not a Primaris exclusive dread? The sarcophagus is the same style as the one on the current box dread so its probably a "regular" Marine(or what's left of one) inside. Really I think that while the full Primaris dex will allow you to make a viable army solo, its essentially going to be vol2 of Codex Space marines.
again, its possible the primaris have veterans from closed and secret battlefield tests.
lord_blackfang wrote: Why do Primaris even have Dreadnoughts? They're intended to preserve culture and tactical experience, right? Any Marine inside a Primaris Dreadnought right now was pretty much born yesterday and killed in his first mission. Truly worth saving!
While its being released along side them its not a Primaris exclusive dread? The sarcophagus is the same style as the one on the current box dread so its probably a "regular" Marine(or what's left of one) inside. Really I think that while the full Primaris dex will allow you to make a viable army solo, its essentially going to be vol2 of Codex Space marines.
again, its possible the primaris have veterans from closed and secret battlefield tests.
Or the Vets are upgraded normal Marines that already had Vet status.
The Redemptor Dread is quite similarly to a Jes Goodwin sketch from 20 years ago (from the book The Gothic and the Eldritch Collected Sketches of Jes Goodwin)
Rippy wrote: I imagine we will see old dreads having their sarcophagus transferred to these new dreads as well.
Makes way for characters like Bjorn to not get "invalidated".
If Bjorn wanted to be in a contemptor or a leviathan he'd be in a contemptor or a leviathan. He's the Imperium's most decorated ancient and could have whatever chassis he likes.
And that sketch looks infinitely better than what we ended up with. Much better balance of proportions.
Rippy wrote: I imagine we will see old dreads having their sarcophagus transferred to these new dreads as well.
Makes way for characters like Bjorn to not get "invalidated".
If Bjorn wanted to be in a contemptor or a leviathan he'd be in a contemptor or a leviathan. He's the Imperium's most decorated ancient and could have whatever chassis he likes.
And that sketch looks infinitely better than what we ended up with. Much better balance of proportions.
The new dread was sculpted by Tom Walton from a design by Jes as was the imperial knight.
Jes doesn't do any physical sculpting any more but he does pretty much all the design work.
I am sure we will his sketch of this soon as we did for Cawl and roboute.
Rippy wrote: So my point stands changemod, I really wouldn't be surprised if Bjorn gets a new dread model.
I'd be utterly shocked, his new model is about a year and a half, maybe two years old and part of a multi-build kit unlikely to replaced any time soon.
If he doesn't want to be a leviathan, he almost certainly doesn't want to be Cawl's approximation of one.
adamsouza wrote: Some new tech on GWs part with clear and grey polystyrene on the same sprue. Nifty
New for GW but not new in the slightest. Bandai have been doing that for years. Every powertool with a soft overmould grip (which is almost all of them now) uses the same process as well.
The new dread was sculpted by Tom Walton from a design by Jes as was the imperial knight.
Jes doesn't do any physical sculpting any more but he does pretty much all the design work.
I am sure we will his sketch of this soon as we did for Cawl and roboute.
The new dread was sculpted by Tom Walton from a design by Jes as was the imperial knight.
Jes doesn't do any physical sculpting any more but he does pretty much all the design work.
I am sure we will his sketch of this soon as we did for Cawl and roboute.
Last model I remember Jes getting credit for was the Eldar flyer. It was commented in the WD that when they scanned the master into the computer they were shocked at how nearly perfectly symetrical it was despite being made by hand.
On the whole, I'm not terribly impressed with much of the new Primaris stuff. I do like the Bolt Rifles the Intercessors carry, and the Plasma Incinerators of the Hellblasters, but the rest of the stuff I can do without. But, as I don't play SM, it's really a moot point.
The DG stuff, apart from the overabundance of bells on the Plague Caster, is solid. Would like to have seen better rules for them, but we know they can't outshine the new Poster Boys. I can't say that I see T5 w/ FnP - sorry, 'Disgustingly Resilient' - being all that in the edition where 'everything dies - quickly'. I could be wrong, however, but that's my initial impression. I look forward to seeing their multi-pose plastic kits that are sure to be hitting soon after 8th drops.
I'm definitely happy with the rules I'm seeing for the game. Looks like things are going to play much more smooth now, and with less wonky interactions.
DR as a major advantage over the old FnP: it can negate ANY wound. FnP couldn't negate ID wounds.
That means that even mortal wounds have a chance of being shrugged off, giving Nurgley units a chance to live when faced with things that would kill others (wounds caused by Smite for example).
Jes said himself in his interview on warhammer that he could not learn how to use CAD, which is what the designers use exclusively now (though trainees still need to be able to sculpt physically.) His design sketches are copied very closely by the other designers, however, so the balance of the model is almost certainly down to him
Mymearan wrote: The Redemptor Dread is quite similarly to a Jes Goodwin sketch from 20 years ago (from the book The Gothic and the Eldritch Collected Sketches of Jes Goodwin)
lol pretty sure Brey'arth was already a Dreadnought, wrought by Vulkan himself, before even the great betrayal and the drop site massacre.
Then you might be wrong. Although the Dreadnought was wrought by Vulkan himself, Brey'arth was only interred in it in 755.M41. He is quite young when compared with the likes of Bjorn. Hence my original comment.
Rippy wrote: So my point stands changemod, I really wouldn't be surprised if Bjorn gets a new dread model.
I'd be utterly shocked, his new model is about a year and a half, maybe two years old and part of a multi-build kit unlikely to replaced any time soon.
If he doesn't want to be a leviathan, he almost certainly doesn't want to be Cawl's approximation of one.
Yeah, I guess I wouldn't expect Bjorn to be swapped out in the next year or so, but maybe just after that.
Also you are confusing "Bjorn doesn't want a Leviathan chassis" with "Games Workshop want him to be one of their models, not a Forge World one"
Warhams-77 wrote: This should answer some questions we had regarding the dice and gauche last week
Via Miniwars
wow that raises more questions than answers. Pinned and Gone to Ground are not in the core rules we've seen, and Deep Strike isn't a condition anymore.
Love those dice counters and distance gage, look really handy. I'll definitely be picking those up and I don't even expect to be playing 8th Ed. in the next year.
This should answer some questions we had regarding the dice and gauche last week
Via Miniwars
wow that raises more questions than answers. Pinned and Gone to Ground are not in the core rules we've seen, and Deep Strike isn't a condition anymore.
We did see in the Cities of Death article where a unit's cover bonus from being in a ruin is increased from a +1 to their Armour Save to +2 if they don't move. This could potentially be 'Gone to Ground' and the marker is a reminder that the unit didn't move.
CaptainSomas wrote: According to the Warhammer fest videos, DG seem to have faired well against the Primadonna marines at the demo tables.
So they say. Maybe I am wrong - not everything is revealed - but I am struggling to see it.
Its possible however people are playing on very small tables (which limit movement options) and not prioritising fire because its all new and people just want to have fun.
As I see it though you just target the Chaos Lord as a high priority and pick up the drone with someone (I'd go with one of your characters) to ensure he doesn't jump on your Hellblasters. Once the lord is dead (one rapid fire hellblaster volley plus inceptors is enough) there isn't much else in the army with any punch (unless the psychic abilities are considerably better than Smite, or the other Nurgle character is an equally effective beat stick).
Okay so this is very, very gamey and I was kinda shocked when they revealed that doing this in age of Sigmar is an intentional gameplay feature rather than a RAW manipulation discovered by pedants, but...
Basically if you're touching an enemy, you can't pile in anymore. But if you're slightly further away you can pile right around the other side of that model if you like as long as it's only three inches.
So, it's optimal to stop charging or piling in half an inch away so you can maximise the number of models touching the enemy, because you can still attack at that range but it leaves you the option of repositioning later.
Of course this would be a lot less micromanagey if they had just made it so you can use your pile in move regardless of base contact so long as more of your models touched the enemy unit than before. Think of this as the replacement to the now defunct obsessively spacing people perfectly in exactly 2 inch formation so that you minimise the impact of blast templates.
Rippy wrote: What a time to be a Death Guard player!
Rules look solid, models look solid, fluff book about DG invading Ultramar, all but confirmed full new plastic kits for everything DG.
I am feeling more disgustingly resilient than when I went to bed last night!!!
Any idea on army construction yet in the 8th edition? So, if you take a Death Guard Battalion detachment, and you get a bunch of stuff and +3 free command points for 6 total. Can you now add another detachment from main Chaos Space Marines rules, or Chaos Daemons, or a Renegade Knight as a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, or whatever, to the army and keep it battle forged/legal? What are the limitations? Are there any? What does battle forged even mean in the 8th edition?
Rippy wrote: What a time to be a Death Guard player!
Rules look solid, models look solid, fluff book about DG invading Ultramar, all but confirmed full new plastic kits for everything DG.
I am feeling more disgustingly resilient than when I went to bed last night!!!
Any idea on army construction yet in the 8th edition? So, if you take a Death Guard Battalion detachment, and you get a bunch of stuff and +3 free command points for 6 total. Can you now add another detachment from main Chaos Space Marines rules, or Chaos Daemons, or a Renegade Knight as a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, or whatever, to the army and keep it battle forged/legal? What are the limitations? Are there any? What does battle forged even mean in the 8th edition?
Thanks.
You just keep picking/filling detachments up to the points limit or power level.
Rippy wrote: What a time to be a Death Guard player!
Rules look solid, models look solid, fluff book about DG invading Ultramar, all but confirmed full new plastic kits for everything DG.
I am feeling more disgustingly resilient than when I went to bed last night!!!
Any idea on army construction yet in the 8th edition? So, if you take a Death Guard Battalion detachment, and you get a bunch of stuff and +3 free command points for 6 total. Can you now add another detachment from main Chaos Space Marines rules, or Chaos Daemons, or a Renegade Knight as a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, or whatever, to the army and keep it battle forged/legal? What are the limitations? Are there any? What does battle forged even mean in the 8th edition?
Thanks.
The short version is you can make nearly anything bound and grab a few command points so long as you're prepared to take an HQ tax. There are detachments for mandatory elites, fast attack and heavy support. There are superheavy only detachments. There are flyer only detachments.
If you really want to have no HQ in your army (and aren't taking a pure Lord of War list) then you can just give up all your command points to achieve it.
Wow it kinda looks like a Dreadnought and a Sentinel had a baby..
Seriously though, the lines of the new dreadnought remind me of the original dreads..
Really.. a lot of the things we've seen have reminded me of 2nd ed or the little I know of RT.. Really like where all of this is headed.
As I see it though you just target the Chaos Lord as a high priority and pick up the drone with someone (I'd go with one of your characters) to ensure he doesn't jump on your Hellblasters. Once the lord is dead (one rapid fire hellblaster volley plus inceptors is enough) there isn't much else in the army with any punch (unless the psychic abilities are considerably better than Smite, or the other Nurgle character is an equally effective beat stick).
You can't target the lord unless he's the closest target, so with some chumps moving in front of him and the table being so small, it is probably not terribly difficult to get him into melee.
CaptainSomas wrote: According to the Warhammer fest videos, DG seem to have faired well against the Primadonna marines at the demo tables.
So they say. Maybe I am wrong - not everything is revealed - but I am struggling to see it.
Its possible however people are playing on very small tables (which limit movement options) and not prioritising fire because its all new and people just want to have fun.
As I see it though you just target the Chaos Lord as a high priority and pick up the drone with someone (I'd go with one of your characters) to ensure he doesn't jump on your Hellblasters. Once the lord is dead (one rapid fire hellblaster volley plus inceptors is enough) there isn't much else in the army with any punch (unless the psychic abilities are considerably better than Smite, or the other Nurgle character is an equally effective beat stick).
You have to go through 20 poxwalkers and 10 plague marines to do that though.
Okay so this is very, very gamey and I was kinda shocked when they revealed that doing this in age of Sigmar is an intentional gameplay feature rather than a RAW manipulation discovered by pedants, but...
Basically if you're touching an enemy, you can't pile in anymore. But if you're slightly further away you can pile right around the other side of that model if you like as long as it's only three inches.
So, it's optimal to stop charging or piling in half an inch away so you can maximise the number of models touching the enemy, because you can still attack at that range but it leaves you the option of repositioning later.
Of course this would be a lot less micromanagey if they had just made it so you can use your pile in move regardless of base contact so long as more of your models touched the enemy unit than before. Think of this as the replacement to the now defunct obsessively spacing people perfectly in exactly 2 inch formation so that you minimise the impact of blast templates.
This is one of the best mechanics in Sigmar because it's a decision. You don't just ALWAYS end not in base contact because of alternating activations. You have to make the choice unit by unit to give yourself the opportunity to maximize the benefit of your pile-in while simultaneously denying your opponent a similar advantage in retaliation(as they can't pile in if you trap them in base contact. It is a brilliant, nuanced mechanic that is the heart and soul of competitive sigmar. The tricks you can do with that half inch are mind-bogglingly awesome.
That said...chargers always strike first negate a lot of the interesting parts of it so...meh?
Okay so this is very, very gamey and I was kinda shocked when they revealed that doing this in age of Sigmar is an intentional gameplay feature rather than a RAW manipulation discovered by pedants, but...
Basically if you're touching an enemy, you can't pile in anymore. But if you're slightly further away you can pile right around the other side of that model if you like as long as it's only three inches.
So, it's optimal to stop charging or piling in half an inch away so you can maximise the number of models touching the enemy, because you can still attack at that range but it leaves you the option of repositioning later.
Of course this would be a lot less micromanagey if they had just made it so you can use your pile in move regardless of base contact so long as more of your models touched the enemy unit than before. Think of this as the replacement to the now defunct obsessively spacing people perfectly in exactly 2 inch formation so that you minimise the impact of blast templates.
This is one of the best mechanics in Sigmar because it's a decision. You don't just ALWAYS end not in base contact because of alternating activations. You have to make the choice unit by unit to give yourself the opportunity to maximize the benefit of your pile-in while simultaneously denying your opponent a similar advantage in retaliation(as they can't pile in if you trap them in base contact. It is a brilliant, nuanced mechanic that is the heart and soul of competitive sigmar. The tricks you can do with that half inch are mind-bogglingly awesome.
That said...chargers always strike first negate a lot of the interesting parts of it so...meh?
You can upsell it however you like, but you can't make it not gamey and micromanagement based. Indeed, you just made it sound even more painfully micromanagement based than I'd previously imagined- Spacing for blast avoidance wasn't anywhere near that bad.
I didn't see this said yet, but did anyone notice that the starter set datasheet for the Hellblaster squad has it at power 12 whereas the leak from the rulebook has them at power 10?
And the Plasma Incinerators in the rule book don't have Supercharge?
I'm cool with the dread. On the other hand, I'm not a fan of any aspect of the game relating to 1/2" differences in position being important. That sounds like a nightmare, particularly if you have a cool board and not just a realm of battle with some ruin walls sticking up out of them.
Okay so this is very, very gamey and I was kinda shocked when they revealed that doing this in age of Sigmar is an intentional gameplay feature rather than a RAW manipulation discovered by pedants, but...
Basically if you're touching an enemy, you can't pile in anymore. But if you're slightly further away you can pile right around the other side of that model if you like as long as it's only three inches.
So, it's optimal to stop charging or piling in half an inch away so you can maximise the number of models touching the enemy, because you can still attack at that range but it leaves you the option of repositioning later.
Of course this would be a lot less micromanagey if they had just made it so you can use your pile in move regardless of base contact so long as more of your models touched the enemy unit than before. Think of this as the replacement to the now defunct obsessively spacing people perfectly in exactly 2 inch formation so that you minimise the impact of blast templates.
This is one of the best mechanics in Sigmar because it's a decision. You don't just ALWAYS end not in base contact because of alternating activations. You have to make the choice unit by unit to give yourself the opportunity to maximize the benefit of your pile-in while simultaneously denying your opponent a similar advantage in retaliation(as they can't pile in if you trap them in base contact. It is a brilliant, nuanced mechanic that is the heart and soul of competitive sigmar. The tricks you can do with that half inch are mind-bogglingly awesome.
That said...chargers always strike first negate a lot of the interesting parts of it so...meh?
You can upsell it however you like, but you can't make it not gamey and micromanagement based. Indeed, you just made it sound even more painfully micromanagement based than I'd previously imagined- Spacing for blast avoidance wasn't anywhere near that bad.
You've already made up your mind on it so whatever. I'll just have to take solace in having a more enjoyable experience than you in both game systems. Tactical play is fun, the charge mechanic offers tactical play, so I have fun with it. Sorry you don't.
I think the power levels in the leak were directly linked to the costs of the units since they were mostly pre determined. For the other sheets they are varied and so will have different power levels.
Fenris-77 wrote: Hmm. Lot of hate for the new Dread. I like it though. I'm not ordering 4 of them or anything, but I like it.
It,s new, therefore gak.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fallenbourne wrote: I didn't see this said yet, but did anyone notice that the starter set datasheet for the Hellblaster squad has it at power 12 whereas the leak from the rulebook has them at power 10?
And the Plasma Incinerators in the rule book don't have Supercharge?
Old pic perhaps?
I can't speak for power levels since I don,t have both images in front of me, but I do recall that he first image included the Overcharge option not as a seperate stat line but in the weapon rules in the italic text.
Fenris-77 wrote: Hmm. Lot of hate for the new Dread. I like it though. I'm not ordering 4 of them or anything, but I like it.
It,s new, therefore gak.
Listen, I'm not so blind as to not see my own bias, so let me correct you for accuracy:
It's tied to the new, Primarch power hour mark 2, upend everything we know about the setting then loudly declare it's amazing lore.
Therefore it's gak.
I'm not going to be able to get behind things tied to that new lore for a long, long time. It's not the setting we all grew up with, and honestly it seems every time a Primarch is brought in to things it cheapens everything nearby via a black hole of superficial hype.
Now I have some criticisms I'd absolutely be voicing anyhow: Primaris marines -are- awkward because of their non-matching scale, no matter how nice their armour looks or if you ignore the lore behind them. The new dread -does- have limbs that don't fit well to the design of it's torso when compared to other dreadnought designs.
But yup, I'm gonna be critical first and foremost here. Even if I do have the option of not buying any of this, marketing and players I go against who like this stuff will put it where I can't ignore it anyhow. No point denying he unavoidable.
Fenris-77 wrote: Hmm. Lot of hate for the new Dread. I like it though. I'm not ordering 4 of them or anything, but I like it.
It,s new, therefore gak.
Listen, I'm not so blind as to not see my own bias, so let me correct you for accuracy:
It's tied to the new, Primarch power hour mark 2, upend everything we know about the setting then loudly declare it's amazing lore.
Therefore it's gak.
I'm not going to be able to get behind things tied to that new lore for a long, long time. It's not the setting we all grew up with, and honestly it seems every time a Primarch is brought in to things it cheapens everything nearby via a black hole of superficial hype.
Now I have some criticisms I'd absolutely be voicing anyhow: Primaris marines -are- awkward because of their non-matching scale, no matter how nice their armour looks or if you ignore the lore behind them. The new dread -does- have limbs that don't fit well to the design of it's torso when compared to other dreadnought designs.
But yup, I'm gonna be critical first and foremost here. Even if I do have the option of not buying any of this, marketing and players I go against who like this stuff will put it where I can't ignore it anyhow. No point denying he unavoidable.
I was making a joke aout how the internet basically hates everything new for a while then simmers down later.
That said, it's not a new design as Jes made the sketch this was based off of years ago, but it is being rolled out with the Primaris
That siad, I doubt you actually have to be a Primaris to have one. Some lucky chapter vets who were bound for Dreadnout duty likely got them so that they could lead the new Primaris Chapters through their centuries of experiance.
Hell as far as I,m concerned he Imperium just decided that the regular Dreadnought needed better armour and the ability to walkup stairs and hills without falling down.
I was making a joke aout how the internet basically hates everything new for a while then simmers down later.
I know, but there's a deeper underlying issue to it this time around. There's a "It's X so it's automatically bad" bias around all primaris related stuff that's not newness oriented.
And really, better to be open about these kinds of things to understand the opinions of both others and ourselves.
I was making a joke aout how the internet basically hates everything new for a while then simmers down later.
I know, but there's a deeper underlying issue to it this time around. There's a "It's X so it's automatically bad" bias around all primaris related stuff that's not newness oriented.
And really, better to be open about these kinds of things to understand the opinions of both others and ourselves.
I'll stick with be full of weapons grade snark.
That said, there is a lot of knee jerking going around. Like the thread in the General about comparing Rubrics and Inceptors, two completely different kinds of units, based solely on their PLs.
Mind you if 1PL=20 points, then a Inceptor with weapons is almost two Rubrics with Inferno Bolters in cost. And PL adds in wargear options you may not take via the avg causing the cost of the unit to be higher when calculated via power than in points.
Also general calling everything old "worthless" in comparison to the new stuff.
Considering the domination of Death Guard at Warhammer Fest over the Primaris Ultramarines, it's safe to say that just because it,s new it,s not automatically the best.
I can totally see with people don't like this new dreadnought type, even If I personally like it, not so much the chicken legs.
What I can't understand is how people in general loves the Contemptor model dreadnought. Is like a pear, is so... generic sci-fi . It don't match Space Marines or Imperium aesthetics. The Leviathan one is a good upgrade, I like my dreadnoughts to be boxy.
Maybe I'm biased because I really really dislike the small head dreadnoughts. To me they all look stupid. I always use the tomb plate. It is suppose to be a mechanized-tomb of destruction, not a tiny marine inside a giant suit, and thats what it looks to me with the tiny marine head. But I'll drop the dreadnought aesthetic discussion here.
So whilemmulling over the points costs on the new Primaris I actually thought of something: 13 point Tacticals may be the cost of the model without any wargear. We know the points lists for the Primaris guys show both models and their weapons pointed seperately, meaning that an Inceptor is 53 points with his guns rather than the 39 the costs without anything.
So Tacticals may be 13 points base but then you have to add points based on their load outs (example of a possible load out: +0 for a Bolt Pistol and Grenades, +2 for the Bolter, ect, ect).
Also correction to an earlier post, an Inceptor is actually well over the cost of 2 Rubirics with Inferno Bolters as they should be around 24ppm when equipped with guns.
Mymearan wrote: The Redemptor Dread is quite similarly to a Jes Goodwin sketch from 20 years ago (from the book The Gothic and the Eldritch Collected Sketches of Jes Goodwin)
From those who played the demo games at Warhammer Fest, are there any reviews posted about the game mechanics and such? General impressions about the game being fun / streamlined / worse / better / etc?
I wonder if Cawl found a bunch of random walker STC concept sketches, picked out the most functional parts of each, and just kind of mashed them together the best he could.
Almost like he decided.... "Well, those Contemptor legs are pretty maneuverable, and the Leviathan dreadnought has plenty of weapons, but the armor on the current space marine dreadnought is much easier to construct."
cuda1179 wrote: I wonder if Cawl found a bunch of random walker STC concept sketches, picked out the most functional parts of each, and just kind of mashed them together the best he could.
Almost like he decided.... "Well, those Contemptor legs are pretty maneuverable, and the Leviathan dreadnought has plenty of weapons, but the armor on the current space marine dreadnought is much easier to construct."
To be fair the Razorback is the lovechild of a Tarantula sentry gun and a Rhino.
And power armour is a combination of dozens of STCs....
So basically all the Imperium does is the equivilant of kitbashing..l
Galas wrote: I can totally see with people don't like this new dreadnought type, even If I personally like it, not so much the chicken legs.
What I can't understand is how people in general loves the Contemptor model dreadnought. Is like a pear, is so... generic sci-fi . It don't match Space Marines or Imperium aesthetics. The Leviathan one is a good upgrade, I like my dreadnoughts to be boxy.
Maybe I'm biased because I really really dislike the small head dreadnoughts. To me they all look stupid. I always use the tomb plate. It is suppose to be a mechanized-tomb of destruction, not a tiny marine inside a giant suit, and thats what it looks to me with the tiny marine head. But I'll drop the dreadnought aesthetic discussion here.
Well you could say contemptor is the original dreadnought look so definining the imperium aesthetic.
The contemptor looks like the old plastic marine dreadnoughts from epic, so technically speaking it's the original design i think. Having said that, i do like the look of the angry washing machines because they don't look like a conventional walker/robot. The more i see the new dreads, the more i like them. The arms and legs just look more well designed than the old ones.
edit: well technically eddie and the like from rogue trader were the original designs, but the epic ones were the next iteration i saw, so older than the awms at least.
Galas wrote: I can totally see with people don't like this new dreadnought type, even If I personally like it, not so much the chicken legs.
What I can't understand is how people in general loves the Contemptor model dreadnought. Is like a pear, is so... generic sci-fi . It don't match Space Marines or Imperium aesthetics. The Leviathan one is a good upgrade, I like my dreadnoughts to be boxy.
Maybe I'm biased because I really really dislike the small head dreadnoughts. To me they all look stupid. I always use the tomb plate. It is suppose to be a mechanized-tomb of destruction, not a tiny marine inside a giant suit, and thats what it looks to me with the tiny marine head. But I'll drop the dreadnought aesthetic discussion here.
Well you could say contemptor is the original dreadnought look so definining the imperium aesthetic.
Yeah, and Centurion armour has always been part of the Imperial Armoury The Whasing Machine Dreadnought is a angry tomb with legs. Is Grimdark made robot. The Contemptor is a generic robot.
To me the contemptor looks like a cross between the Michelin Man and Gigantor, but I happen to love the classic "washing machine" look.
The new dread looks...kinda cool, but...yeah, not quite right. The shoulders seem too low or small, the belly sticks out like it's pregnant and it looks about to squat down and take a number two. Could be a fun challenge to make it better, much like the stormraven was for me. Luckily, we each have our own aesthetic tastes so who is to judge?
EDIT: By the way, have there been any confirmed rules on the effects of terrain besides adding armor value, such as hindering movement or blocking LOS abstractly? I've noticed a few references but I'm not sure which link verifies anything.
ClockworkZion wrote: ... it's not a new design as Jes made the sketch this was based off of years ago...
Hardly.
That sketch has more in common with the 2nd Ed Epic Marine Dreads, which in turn informed the current look of the Contemptors. The other sketches just look like the current Washing Machine Dread.
This is just a bigger version of that, longer arms, much longer legs, bigger shoulders and a heavier armoured prow for the sarcophagus. And more guns, obviously.
The plasma gun looks great, but the minigun is a bit generic. I would have much rather seen a gigantic bolter or something more 40k style...and less bland.
I see some similarities between it and the kastelan robots, especially the back of the legs and the powerfist. But the kastelans are supposedly ancient pre imperium technology.
I posted this in the wrong thread a moment ago lol.
I managed to get a quick flip through the indices over the weekend... I can't divulge the specifics until the 3rd, but here is what I can say:
-Our plasma statline is as expected, but imperium plasma has improved.
-Rail weapons statlines are as expected, but with a chance to cause additional mortal wounds.
-Support systems got a bit of a revamp, some now do different things compared to the way it was in 7th ed.
-Sept rules not in the index. Looks like will need to wait for codex.
-Firesight marksmen are seperate characters now.
-Markerlights are cumulative per phase and do not get 'expended'. There is a table showing what different numbers of ML hits do.
From cmndrcash on ATT. I think the dark city forums also had some DE leaks. So rules leaks are starting to appear now and not just GW official "leaks". Yes rail guns are going to be fun again.
Fenris-77 wrote: Hmm. Lot of hate for the new Dread. I like it though. I'm not ordering 4 of them or anything, but I like it.
It,s new, therefore gak.
Listen, I'm not so blind as to not see my own bias, so let me correct you for accuracy:
It's tied to the new, Primarch power hour mark 2, upend everything we know about the setting then loudly declare it's amazing lore.
Therefore it's gak.
I'm not going to be able to get behind things tied to that new lore for a long, long time. It's not the setting we all grew up with, and honestly it seems every time a Primarch is brought in to things it cheapens everything nearby via a black hole of superficial hype.
Now I have some criticisms I'd absolutely be voicing anyhow: Primaris marines -are- awkward because of their non-matching scale, no matter how nice their armour looks or if you ignore the lore behind them. The new dread -does- have limbs that don't fit well to the design of it's torso when compared to other dreadnought designs.
But yup, I'm gonna be critical first and foremost here. Even if I do have the option of not buying any of this, marketing and players I go against who like this stuff will put it where I can't ignore it anyhow. No point denying he unavoidable.
That said, it's not a new design as Jes made the sketch this was based off of years ago, but it is being rolled out with the Primaris
That's a leap, and to compare that hill of to anything Jes sketched in the past is pure heresy I see almost zero traits in common with that sketch page other then the sarcophagus which they managed to butcher with a gorget
PostSubject: Re: 8e - Drukhari Sat May 27 2017, 16:48
So I got to actually look at the xenos index today. Very briefly.
Didn't get to really look through a lot as everyone in the store was wanting to look and my wife had the book.. She just wanted to look at the pictures!
But, I can say this. PfP is still a cumulative list that goes by game turn. It starts with the 6+ fnp save and goes up to ld shenanigans... (it was all enemy units within a certain distance count as ld - 2??? I think...)
Drugs are in. Random from the looks of it. All looked good, from extra at, ws, att, T, move, and ld
I forgot to look at any movement stats... Please forgive me!
Wyches looked like they were good again! Their weapons have a bit of punch. Didn't get to look at the shard net. Didn't get to look at our vehicles at all...
Banshees will always attack first. Even if they are charged. Battle focus let's you shoot normal even if you moved or advanced
Acrobat added 3" to their advance roll (I think)
Points are all in the back of each index.
That is most all I remember! Hopefully others will start to get a look and share what they see
Wyches are, if memory serves, hitting on a 3+ in cc if I recall, I know they have 2 attacks base.
Oh! I forgot!!
Poison is in. Wounds all non vehicles on a 4+. Vehicles on a 6.
I think.... Don't quote me.... But pretty sure their knives are poison.
I know they had multiple weapons with str and damage boosts. Some. With multiple wounds.
Torrent launches subtract one from ld if the opposing unit takes a wound from. It. Or may just hit...don't remember
I really wish I could have spent more time with the book lol
One other tidbit. Psychic powers are now a pick which you want or roll a d3. Yup, only three powers on a chart. Means lvl 3 psycher s are gonna be pretty powerful. Don't recall seeing priamis powers, nor warlord traits... But could have just missed it
Seems like I might be in the minority here, but I really like the look of the new dreadnought. A lot. I think it works really well as an evolution of the existing model. This whole new Primaris range is just stunning! I don't think I've ever been so excited for a release in all the years I've been in the hobby! <3
21stPrimarch wrote: GUYS
Blood of Kittens posted a pic from the Death guard seminar that has what seems to be a Nurgle Lord of Skulls thing, and CRYPT GHOULS. Its a grainy pic but as an aos Flesh eater courts player, I know those models anywhere
Nope, that's a picture showcasing one of the designers personally converted armies. Pretty sure he has a blog with all those in it from at least 2 years back.
21stPrimarch wrote: GUYS
Blood of Kittens posted a pic from the Death guard seminar that has what seems to be a Nurgle Lord of Skulls thing, and CRYPT GHOULS. Its a grainy pic but as an aos Flesh eater courts player, I know those models anywhere
Nope, that's a picture showcasing one of the designers personally converted armies. Pretty sure he has a blog with all those in it from at least 2 years back.
Rippy wrote: What a time to be a Death Guard player!
Rules look solid, models look solid, fluff book about DG invading Ultramar, all but confirmed full new plastic kits for everything DG.
I am feeling more disgustingly resilient than when I went to bed last night!!!
Any idea on army construction yet in the 8th edition? So, if you take a Death Guard Battalion detachment, and you get a bunch of stuff and +3 free command points for 6 total. Can you now add another detachment from main Chaos Space Marines rules, or Chaos Daemons, or a Renegade Knight as a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, or whatever, to the army and keep it battle forged/legal? What are the limitations? Are there any? What does battle forged even mean in the 8th edition?
Thanks.
The short version is you can make nearly anything bound and grab a few command points so long as you're prepared to take an HQ tax. There are detachments for mandatory elites, fast attack and heavy support. There are superheavy only detachments. There are flyer only detachments.
If you really want to have no HQ in your army (and aren't taking a pure Lord of War list) then you can just give up all your command points to achieve it.
Thanks guys, but I saw the screenshots about the few basic detachments. What I was most curious about is if you can mix and match between factions, and what the allegiances are like. I mean, the datasheets have that 'keywords' thing going on. So back to the original example of one detachment of Death Guard, can another be from another faction so to speak, for example Chaos Daemons, or super-heavies? Is this still called allying, and who can do that with who? If all things Chaos go together, and all things Imperium go together, what the heck do the Xenos go together with? And so on.
My understanding is that what will be allowed in a single detatchment is pretty wide open, you just need one keyword. So for your example, Death Guard could fit in the same detatchment as daemons because they would share the keyword (Chaos). They would get whatever strategiums the Chaos detatchment gives (if any). If you had an all Death Guard army, they would get the chaos strategiums plus the Death Guard ones because they would all have both keywords. My guess is, the more specific the keyword, the more/better the strategums.
Galas wrote: I can totally see with people don't like this new dreadnought type, even If I personally like it, not so much the chicken legs.
What I can't understand is how people in general loves the Contemptor model dreadnought. Is like a pear, is so... generic sci-fi . It don't match Space Marines or Imperium aesthetics. The Leviathan one is a good upgrade, I like my dreadnoughts to be boxy.
Maybe I'm biased because I really really dislike the small head dreadnoughts. To me they all look stupid. I always use the tomb plate. It is suppose to be a mechanized-tomb of destruction, not a tiny marine inside a giant suit, and thats what it looks to me with the tiny marine head. But I'll drop the dreadnought aesthetic discussion here.
Well you could say contemptor is the original dreadnought look so definining the imperium aesthetic.
Yeah, and Centurion armour has always been part of the Imperial Armoury The Whasing Machine Dreadnought is a angry tomb with legs. Is Grimdark made robot. The Contemptor is a generic robot.
Check which one came first. Contemptors existed in 40k model years before current one.
And I take this one:
Spoiler:
Any day over the new dread.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Therion wrote: Thanks guys, but I saw the screenshots about the few basic detachments. What I was most curious about is if you can mix and match between factions, and what the allegiances are like. I mean, the datasheets have that 'keywords' thing going on. So back to the original example of one detachment of Death Guard, can another be from another faction so to speak, for example Chaos Daemons, or super-heavies? Is this still called allying, and who can do that with who? If all things Chaos go together, and all things Imperium go together, what the heck do the Xenos go together with? And so on.
Thanks again.
Well nobody knows officially yet I think but we know that a) allies are in b) GW has said they aren't invalidating existing armies. For both to be true you kinda need to be able to take multiple detachments with different factions.
crumby_cataphract wrote: Seems like I might be in the minority here, but I really like the look of the new dreadnought. A lot. I think it works really well as an evolution of the existing model. This whole new Primaris range is just stunning! I don't think I've ever been so excited for a release in all the years I've been in the hobby! <3
Thanks to everyone. This new edition is sure looking good. Still can't quite believe it to be true, but I guess I have to. Most of it seems like a dream come true of gamers picking and choosing the coolest thing of each past edition.
I'm sure it'll have flaws, but it seems almost safe to say it's shaping up to be the best large scale game GW has ever made. The whole approach of having the ITC crew involved, and a living rule book that can be rebalanced as we go on is an entirely new era for GW games.
I'm sure it'll have flaws, but it seems almost safe to say it's shaping up to be the best large scale game GW has ever made. The whole approach of having the ITC crew involved, and a living rule book that can be rebalanced as we go on is an entirely new era for GW games.
Gaps, loop-holes, OP and underwhelming units and models.
Inevitable trace-appearances.
Galas wrote: I can totally see with people don't like this new dreadnought type, even If I personally like it, not so much the chicken legs.
What I can't understand is how people in general loves the Contemptor model dreadnought. Is like a pear, is so... generic sci-fi . It don't match Space Marines or Imperium aesthetics. The Leviathan one is a good upgrade, I like my dreadnoughts to be boxy.
Maybe I'm biased because I really really dislike the small head dreadnoughts. To me they all look stupid. I always use the tomb plate. It is suppose to be a mechanized-tomb of destruction, not a tiny marine inside a giant suit, and thats what it looks to me with the tiny marine head. But I'll drop the dreadnought aesthetic discussion here.
Well you could say contemptor is the original dreadnought look so definining the imperium aesthetic.
Yeah, and Centurion armour has always been part of the Imperial Armoury The Whasing Machine Dreadnought is a angry tomb with legs. Is Grimdark made robot. The Contemptor is a generic robot.
Yeah basically with list building you need to decide whether that one non-death guard unit is worth missing out on the Death Guard Strategems.
Alternatively, if you are taking a really mixed army, and your super expensive HQ has an ability that only affects DEATH GUARD then is it worth taking that HQ etc.
rvd1ofakind wrote: I wish there was a way to filter out Primaris/dreadnought posts :x
I want rules discussions and leaks, darn it :p
The best way to filter that is to just check the OP
Automatically Appended Next Post: Apparently it has been confirmed that the front armour can be removed from the new dread to reveal the sarcophagus.
I think that will make it look even better!
rvd1ofakind wrote: I wish there was a way to filter out Primaris/dreadnought posts :x
I want rules discussions and leaks, darn it :p
The best way to filter that is to just check the OP
Automatically Appended Next Post: Apparently it has been confirmed that the front armour can be removed from the new dread to reveal the sarcophagus.
I think that will make it look even better!
As a Sisters of Battle player Primaris Marines and new Dreadnought annoy the doodoo out of me.
Black Reach starter box Dreadnought
SM Dreadnought
BA Furioso Dreadnought
SM Venerable Dreadnought
SW Venerable Dreadnought
Ironclad Dreadnought
Contemptor Dreadnought
Rippy wrote: Yeah basically with list building you need to decide whether that one non-death guard unit is worth missing out on the Death Guard Strategems.
Alternatively, if you are taking a really mixed army, and your super expensive HQ has an ability that only affects DEATH GUARD then is it worth taking that HQ etc.
Or take some other detachment. You could sacrifice 1 CP to get aux detachment.
MadCowCrazy wrote: As a Sisters of Battle player Primaris Marines and new Dreadnought annoy the doodoo out of me.
Black Reach starter box Dreadnought
SM Dreadnought
BA Furioso Dreadnought
SM Venerable Dreadnought
SW Venerable Dreadnought
Ironclad Dreadnought
Contemptor Dreadnought
and now Redemptor Dreadnought....
Where are my plastic Penitent Engines darn it!!!
Is there any topic and any thread that doesn't have a sisters player moaning in it?
Love these old pics...still have a Chaos version tucked away, armed with crab-claw and plasma gun... :-)
It's fairly amusing to watch all the different tastest regarding dreadnoughts (as well as other stuff of course). Personally I like both the oldschool and newer Contemptors, the standard Angry Washing Machine, and newfangled Primaris version. The ones I have a problem with are the various Venerable versions, especially the Space Wolf one, bleargh!
Go figure I guess...
rvd1ofakind wrote: I wish there was a way to filter out Primaris/dreadnought posts :x
I want rules discussions and leaks, darn it :p
The best way to filter that is to just check the OP
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah, but sadly not every tid bit makes it there. I want to know all
I don't want to float my own boat too much, but I haven't anywhere that has more information about 8th edition in one place on the rest of the internet
Why is everyone automatically assuming the Redemptor is a new design? Maybe it's just what happens to a Castraferrum dread that undergoes the Primorphization Process?
Or maybe...
The Dreadnought
Brother Epathus felt stronger than ever before. He could run faster and jump higher than any normal Astartes. The transformation was a success! Or so he thought...
Within a few days of his emergence from the Primorphization Chamber he began to notice strange growths on his body. And his chiseled jawline began to look even more chiseled. Boxy even. Had something gone wrong?
Looking over the diagnostics, could it be? Dread swept over him. He hadn't been alone in the Primorphization Chamber that day! Something had snuck in with him! Something square. And angry...
"I'm a washing machine who dreamt he was a man and loved it. But now the dream is over... and the washing machine is awake."
GW is removing variety in T/save's and mostly using W counter as differentiate. Much like most rolls in 8th ed being 3+ to 5+ with 2+ and 6+ being rather rare.
Heavy tanks are now T8 pretty much uniformedly.
Bit odd. With S and T now being able to go over 10 one would have expected them to widen the range. Have we seen anybody with T11+ yet?
Wait...wait a minute. Obliterators fleshmetal guns have a max range of 24" with 2 random S/AP/D.....and their only movement 4". So, they obviously want you to play to the fluff and teleport them like eveytime, because who would take them in a Land-raider. Well at least they can advance and still shoot.
T4/W3/2+/5++, with S5 and 3 attack in melee for 65 pts. Eh....Havocs it is then.
Damnit I thought we were done with the random for the sake of random abilities for chaos. Now I'm really worried about what the did with Possesses, Helbrutes, Mutilators, and Spawn.
I wonder if it will be possible to kit out your loyalist Knight just like the Draikana? Chaos appears to already be able to do so with the current traitor knight rules.
Surprised that the Starter set Death guard are in the book. I hope this is not an indication of a long wait for there full codex and model range.
BrookM wrote: I wonder if it will be possible to kit out your loyalist Knight just like the Draikana? Chaos appears to already be able to do so with the current traitor knight rules.
Fingers crossed. I've been waiting for an excuse to get some of the FW heads
Sersi wrote: Wait...wait a minute. Obliterators fleshmetal guns have a max range of 24" with 2 random S/AP/D.....and their only movement 4". So, they obviously want you to play to the fluff and teleport them like eveytime, because who would take them in a Land-raider. Well at least they can advance and still shoot.
T4/W3/2+/5++, with S5 and 3 attack in melee for 65 pts. Eh....Havocs it is then.
Well since there's VERY little drawback in teleporting them in...Yeah they are teleporting in like always.
Obliberators have assault weapon. They can Advance and shot each turm making this effective (4+d6)" so they can be pretty fast.
(first post on DakkaDakka. Hi!)
so wait, if you roll up the oblit weapons "when a unit of Obliterators is chosen to shoot", does that happen before target selection?
So where you'd normally say "This unit of obliterators will shoot at that predator", does the roll happen between "This unit of obliterators will shoot" and "at that Predator"?
If so, that would mitigate some of the pain of not being able to choose weapons, and if not then you can always split-fire to other targets (the roll is done for the whole unit, not per-target)
kiciek wrote: Obliberators have assault weapon. They can Advance and shot each turm making this effective (4+d6)" so they can be pretty fast.
(first post on DakkaDakka. Hi!)
You don't want to do that except on emergency since it takes -1 to hit. Just like havocs and other heavy weapons don't want to move if they can stay put.
Since times when you don't want to teleport are pretty scarce most likely just teleport them in.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Charax wrote: so wait, if you roll up the oblit weapons "when a unit of Obliterators is chosen to shoot", does that happen before target selection?
So where you'd normally say "This unit of obliterators will shoot at that predator", does the roll happen between "This unit of obliterators will shoot" and "at that Predator"?
If so, that would mitigate some of the pain of not being able to choose weapons, and if not then you can always split-fire to other targets (the roll is done for the whole unit, not per-target)
Pretty sure it's before selecting target. Choosing unit to shoot(when you roll weapons) is before picking up target after all.
Sersi wrote: Wait...wait a minute. Obliterators fleshmetal guns have a max range of 24" with 2 random S/AP/D.....and their only movement 4". So, they obviously want you to play to the fluff and teleport them like eveytime, because who would take them in a Land-raider. Well at least they can advance and still shoot.
T4/W3/2+/5++, with S5 and 3 attack in melee for 65 pts. Eh....Havocs it is then.
Well since there's VERY little drawback in teleporting them in...Yeah they are teleporting in like always.
True...but I was hoping to at least get to use the new weapons profiles, especially the lascannons. It is what is what it is though.
Charax wrote: so wait, if you roll up the oblit weapons "when a unit of Obliterators is chosen to shoot", does that happen before target selection?
So where you'd normally say "This unit of obliterators will shoot at that predator", does the roll happen between "This unit of obliterators will shoot" and "at that Predator"?
If so, that would mitigate some of the pain of not being able to choose weapons, and if not then you can always split-fire to other targets (the roll is done for the whole unit, not per-target)
According to the leak core rules shooting sequence; you choose you target before choosing the ranged weapon. So, no.
Sersi wrote: Wait...wait a minute. Obliterators fleshmetal guns have a max range of 24" with 2 random S/AP/D.....and their only movement 4". So, they obviously want you to play to the fluff and teleport them like eveytime, because who would take them in a Land-raider. Well at least they can advance and still shoot.
T4/W3/2+/5++, with S5 and 3 attack in melee for 65 pts. Eh....Havocs it is then.
Well since there's VERY little drawback in teleporting them in...Yeah they are teleporting in like always.
True...but I was hoping to at least get to use the new weapons profiles, especially the lascannons. It is what is what it is though.
a friend of mine noted the randomness isn't that abd, as he said "24 inch, Str 7+ weapons with guaranteed -1 AP, up to 3 wounds per shot, and they're Assault 2? 2+ 5++ with more wounds then a terminator, a +3 to hit and 3 attacks if you have to melee with them, what more do you want from them?"
and he's right, the loss of the power fist is moderatly dissappointing, until you realize that had to be paid for, proably better to just drop it,
Charax wrote: so wait, if you roll up the oblit weapons "when a unit of Obliterators is chosen to shoot", does that happen before target selection?
So where you'd normally say "This unit of obliterators will shoot at that predator", does the roll happen between "This unit of obliterators will shoot" and "at that Predator"?
If so, that would mitigate some of the pain of not being able to choose weapons, and if not then you can always split-fire to other targets (the roll is done for the whole unit, not per-target)
According to the leak core rules shooting sequence; you choose you target before choosing the ranged weapon. So, no.
You don't roll the stats when choosing ranged weapon though. You roll them _when you select obliterators are chosen to shoot_.
Basically if oblis had another gun you could choose between them and flesh guns. As it is now order is: Choose oblits to shoot. Roll for guns. Choose target. Choose weapon to shoot(oh we have only 1. Easy choice). Proceed.
You don't roll the stats when choosing ranged weapon though. You roll them _when you select obliterators are chosen to shoot_.
Basically if oblis had another gun you could choose between them and flesh guns. As it is now order is: Choose oblits to shoot. Roll for guns. Choose target. Choose weapon to shoot(oh we have only 1. Easy choice). Proceed.
Exactly what I was going to say,
Which isn't SO bad because as long as you have multiple possible targets you can roll up the weapon THEN decide what unit it'll be best served attacking
So just going by models, the chaos side of thing's got 688points. Vs the 940pts of the Primaris fully decked out. It's not bad to be honest, some 252pts. It's the difference you got from DV with FULL kit on both sides. Once we know their gear the difference will shrink notably.
hmmm my knee jerk on the obilts is they'v been nerfed.
I expect they might just play different now, 3 wounds and move 4 and 24" range... they prob gonna be a deep strike in and distraction unit now. They're now to random to be a primary part of ye battle placn
land raiders thou! oh lawd i'm happy.
kiciek wrote: Obliberators have assault weapon. They can Advance and shot each turm making this effective (4+d6)" so they can be pretty fast.
(first post on DakkaDakka. Hi!)
Really disappointed with the Abaddon rules there, after 10000 years and many black crusades he still can't control his own sword. Every time he fights he has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding himself, how is he still alive.
Latro_ wrote: Yea but its more more less the same pts cost
can move 10" and now fire 4 lascannon shots, 6 heavy bolter shots at different targets and full bs.
Didn't make comment regarding efficiency. Just noted that we finally got answer to if assault transports still exists. People were wondering if it might be disembark after move or something. Seems no. Only exception left might be open topped but frankly doubt it now.
Lord Kragan wrote: So just going by models, the chaos side of thing's got 688points. Vs the 940pts of the Primaris fully decked out. It's not bad to be honest, some 252pts. It's the difference you got from DV with FULL kit on both sides. Once we know their gear the difference will shrink notably.
252 difference before wargear?
Well, lets see.
Poxwalkers-no warger there.
Bloat drone-go figure.
Plague marines-I can spot a power fist, plauge knife and a plasma rifle. there is probably a plague blaster I'm missing.
Lord-axe of contagion, seems like a really badass weapon that will cost a hell lot on its own. (+2S, -3AP 3 damage. that's crazy.)
Blightbringer-plasma pistol
Plague caster-who knows.
So, 2 wildcard models, another with a REALLY expensive weapons, some random weapons and possibly a few things I missed.
Yea, around 250 points in gear is plausible.
deathstalker013 wrote: Really disappointed with the Abaddon rules there, after 10000 years and many black crusades he still can't control his own sword. Every time he fights he has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding himself, how is he still alive.
Seeing as you choose one weapon to fight with...why would you ever pick the Sword when the Claw is just better?
deathstalker013 wrote: Really disappointed with the Abaddon rules there, after 10000 years and many black crusades he still can't control his own sword. Every time he fights he has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding himself, how is he still alive.
Seeing as you choose one weapon to fight with...why would you ever pick the Sword when the Claw is just better?
'cause sword is IN ADDITION.
You attack with claw and with 2-6 sword attacks unless you roll 1.
deathstalker013 wrote: Really disappointed with the Abaddon rules there, after 10000 years and many black crusades he still can't control his own sword. Every time he fights he has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding himself, how is he still alive.
Seeing as you choose one weapon to fight with...why would you ever pick the Sword when the Claw is just better?
well its a trade off as the sword might give you 12 attacks and you can pick
so you do 5 with the fist
take a punt on one with the sword and you might get 2-6 more attacks with the sword for a total of 7 with it
so two viable options use the sword once or jsut do all 6 with the first is the 1 in 6 chance is too risky or you need the s8
Nice. Way to nerf one of the better chaos units. Now instead of massively versatile unit you get a bunch of random rolls. You know, because having even more random is that one thing everybody have been asking for.
No melee weapons too. Something that is able to lterally create shooting weaponry out of it's own body on the fly and is unable to make some sort of an axe or a maul or anything at all? Yeah, that makes sense.
deathstalker013 wrote: Really disappointed with the Abaddon rules there, after 10000 years and many black crusades he still can't control his own sword. Every time he fights he has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding himself, how is he still alive.
Seeing as you choose one weapon to fight with...why would you ever pick the Sword when the Claw is just better?
well its a trade off as the sword might give you 12 attacks
I get all that, fluff wise I have just never liked the idea of a warrior who has been at war for over 10000 years and become the warmaster of chaos can't control his own sword. He has the favour of all the chaos gods, has he never said can you give me a better sword or tell this one to behave. Personally I would have got rid of it by now.
I would not expect Drachn'yen to remain so weedy for long. I expect that once the Black Legion book is out it will become an "Artefact of Vengeance" or something like that, with proper "mess you up hardcore" rules in a separate section.
deathstalker013 wrote: Really disappointed with the Abaddon rules there, after 10000 years and many black crusades he still can't control his own sword. Every time he fights he has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding himself, how is he still alive.
Seeing as you choose one weapon to fight with...why would you ever pick the Sword when the Claw is just better?
well its a trade off as the sword might give you 12 attacks
I get all that, fluff wise I have just never liked the idea of a warrior who has been at war for over 10000 years and become the warmaster of chaos can't control his own sword. He has the favour of all the chaos gods, has he never said can you give me a better sword or tell this one to behave. Personally I would have got rid of it by now.
well you also have cmd points, i'll re-roll that one... kinda thing you are gonna use as your goto for cmd points.
deathstalker013 wrote: Really disappointed with the Abaddon rules there, after 10000 years and many black crusades he still can't control his own sword. Every time he fights he has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding himself, how is he still alive.
Seeing as you choose one weapon to fight with...why would you ever pick the Sword when the Claw is just better?
More attacks?
Also Abby isn't bad at all, he is exactly like how he was, CSM units in 12" ignores Morale, BL units in 6 reroll ALL failed to hit rolls( shooting AND CC), He reduce damages he takes by 50%, his darn Tanky if you ask me, even the most killy weapon that makes 6 dmg or D6 damage can only inflict him 3 at best.
ANd compared to before Termi armor units are marginaly better since they can DS AND ASSAULT in the same turn!
Yeah the fact that he still has the Weapon trying to rebel when for a time he din't have to( but that lasted only for an edition) is kinda meh, but you can use your reroll stratagem if you like at this moment!
The Lord of Contagion is as good if not better, with higher survivability, for 114 pts less (possibly without weapons though)
For the head honcho, Abby should be significantly better than some Joe-schmo warband leader. I get he's faster with (maybe) a better weapon, but still...
Yes, I get he has command buffs, maybe I'm being too picky wanting a 10,000 year veteran leader of the entire Chaos Astartes to be a bit more OTT.
Hmmm... Abaddon move 6". Makes me wonder if Mark of Slaanesh is +1" movement. Since he's got the +1T from Nurgle, +1 invulnerable from Tzeentch, and presumable +1 Attack from Khorne.
Abbadon gets 6 s8 attacks, then another 2-6 S5 attacks 85% of the time. He rerolls all misses (because he's in range of himself),
Gains an extra attack every time he rolls a 6 to hit, takes half damage from attacks (effectively meaning he has 14 wounds), and has the keywords of all the chaos gods (which will undoubtedly allow for further buffs).
The Lord of Contagion is as good if not better, with higher survivability, for 114 pts less (possibly without weapons though)
For the head honcho, Abby should be significantly better than some Joe-schmo warband leader. I get he's faster with (maybe) a better weapon, but still...
Yes, I get he has command buffs, maybe I'm being too picky wanting a 10,000 year veteran leader of the entire Chaos Astartes to be a bit more OTT.
The axe is not included in LoC cost. and given that a MC power sword (no S bonus, AP-3 and 2 damage) costs 17-wonna guess how much the axe gonna cost? I'd wager over 25.
Also, LoC does not take half damage, has one less wound, is MUCH slower in both movement and advancement (the slowest thing we saw so far, in fact cripplingly so.), got less attacks, etc...
Had they cost even remotely the same, I'd take abbadon without eventhinking.
4" move rate with re-roll-take-lower advancement means you are not getting anywhere. you DS, charge and hope for a 9 or more, and if you didn't get the charge off, you are never getting it.
I like the Heldrake being a real dragon now and getting to tear things up in melee.
Bodes less well for the more plane-like flyers I guess... From a simulationist perspective. If a night scythe starts on the table and has a high move value I'll be thrilled: Annihilation barge that doubles as a high capacity transport.
Gordy2000 wrote: Do you think he does get the BL re-roll? I hadn't considered that.
About the Marks buffs, I assumed they were already in his profile.
Perhaps I've just rolled too many 1s with his sword in the past to be too excited as that damn rule is still in there
He's a Black Legion model in range of himself. I can't see why not.
I was referring to any bubble effect buffs from other characters. He will be affected by any god-specific buff. No idea yet what these might be like, or even if they will be common, but it's useful just in case.
Don't forget, you can use a command point to reroll the daemon weapon now
Sersi wrote: Hmmm... Abaddon move 6". Makes me wonder if Mark of Slaanesh is +1" movement. Since he's got the +1T from Nurgle, +1 invulnerable from Tzeentch, and presumable +1 Attack from Khorne.
Nice spot there.
I just wish we could see the effects of Marks - and do they apply to vehicles as well? Especially since vehicles now have attacks of their own in assault etc. That'd be nice. Real nice. It'd make God-specific vehicles a bit more thematic as well. Tougher Nurgle Land Raiders, faster moving Slaaneshi Rhinos, more Murderous Khornate Daemon engines....mmmmh.
1. Obliterators aren't nerfed. On average it is a S8 D2 AP-2 gun. That's good for killing elite units and we don't even know what the Legion bonuses are yet, which is kinda important? And the only way you ever deployed them got safer? And now you don't have like 8 different weapons you only get 3 shots each max?
Yeah, SUPER nerfed. If you're dumb.
2. Abigail is kinda okay. Rounding damage down is super good because a Lascannon gets 3 wounds max against him, and now the Talon isn't just a show piece. Do you go for more attacks or less attacks with more strength?
Definitely want to see more though. Any idea if our relics made it?
Robin5t wrote: I feel like Abaddon isn't beating the Swarmlord, based on the information we have on the latter so far.
To be honest, that feels strangely appropriate.
The Swarmlord is an Apex Hive Tyrant. I feel that something that is effectively a Monster in itself shouldn't be beaten down by even a guy waddling around in Terminator armour. I feel like you should be beating down Monsters with your own Monsters or assaulting with a number of units.
Let's not forget the Swarmlord CAN be singled out (more than 10 wounds) while Abaddon is somewhat safer with nearby units (that he is in turn buffing as well).
True, but there could be an exemption in the Mark rules that stops the bonus from applying to Vehicles - though they still count in terms of Faction for army selection.
Robin5t wrote: I feel like Abaddon isn't beating the Swarmlord, based on the information we have on the latter so far.
To be honest, that feels strangely appropriate.
The Swarmlord is an Apex Hive Tyrant. I feel that something that is effectively a Monster in itself shouldn't be beaten down by even a guy waddling around in Terminator armour. I feel like you should be beating down Monsters with your own Monsters or assaulting with a number of units.
Let's not forget the Swarmlord CAN be singled out (more than 10 wounds) while Abaddon is somewhat safer with nearby units (that he is in turn buffing as well).
True, but there could be an exemption in the Mark rules that stops the bonus from applying to Vehicles - though they still count in terms of Faction for army selection.
Oh, I definitely agree. It just stuck out to me as they struck me as being more evenly matched in previous editions.
M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline
Tervigon
M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+
Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)
Really would like to see Swarmlord's full datasheet. I suspect he'd come out on top eventually but Swarmlord vs Abaddon, barring some interactions we're not aware, is not something that would be over in a single round of combat...on average.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: 1. Obliterators aren't nerfed. On average it is a S8 D2 AP-2 gun. That's good for killing elite units and we don't even know what the Legion bonuses are yet, which is kinda important? And the only way you ever deployed them got safer? And now you don't have like 8 different weapons you only get 3 shots each max?
Yeah, SUPER nerfed. If you're dumb.
2. Abigail is kinda okay. Rounding damage down is super good because a Lascannon gets 3 wounds max against him, and now the Talon isn't just a show piece. Do you go for more attacks or less attacks with more strength?
Definitely want to see more though. Any idea if our relics made it?
Actually because you can split attacks between weapons you could roll your extra attacks with the sword then make the regular attacks with the talon.
In fact it specifically says you need to roll Drachnyen every time he fights, not every time he uses the sword.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: 1. Obliterators aren't nerfed. On average it is a S8 D2 AP-2 gun. That's good for killing elite units and we don't even know what the Legion bonuses are yet, which is kinda important? And the only way you ever deployed them got safer? And now you don't have like 8 different weapons you only get 3 shots each max?
Yeah, SUPER nerfed. If you're dumb.
2. Abigail is kinda okay. Rounding damage down is super good because a Lascannon gets 3 wounds max against him, and now the Talon isn't just a show piece. Do you go for more attacks or less attacks with more strength?
Definitely want to see more though. Any idea if our relics made it?
They were always kinda bad but you can't seriously claim a random profile is better than being restricted from firing whatever you want twice in a row? Deep strike safer? Hardly a buff when the only reason we have to deep strike them now is that their deffgun onlt gets half range for some reason. It's not like they get meltas.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: 1. Obliterators aren't nerfed. On average it is a S8 D2 AP-2 gun. That's good for killing elite units and we don't even know what the Legion bonuses are yet, which is kinda important? And the only way you ever deployed them got safer? And now you don't have like 8 different weapons you only get 3 shots each max?
Yeah, SUPER nerfed. If you're dumb.
I agree to some extent. I can see why you wouldn't like the random effect but at worst you are probably carrying an autocannon. At best you are carrying a two shot lascannon that does 3 damage instead of D6. On average its probably a two shot krak missile. All with lower range but 28"+d6 (if you need it) is hardly tiny.
It will depend on how cheap you can tool up Havocs. If heavy weapons are 10 points each then they are probably better. If they are 15-20 then its going to be quite marginal. Higher and Oblits are obviously better.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: 1. Obliterators aren't nerfed. On average it is a S8 D2 AP-2 gun. That's good for killing elite units and we don't even know what the Legion bonuses are yet, which is kinda important? And the only way you ever deployed them got safer? And now you don't have like 8 different weapons you only get 3 shots each max?
Yeah, SUPER nerfed. If you're dumb.
2. Abigail is kinda okay. Rounding damage down is super good because a Lascannon gets 3 wounds max against him, and now the Talon isn't just a show piece. Do you go for more attacks or less attacks with more strength?
Definitely want to see more though. Any idea if our relics made it?
They were always kinda bad but you can't seriously claim a random profile is better than being restricted from firing whatever you want twice in a row? Deep strike safer? Hardly a buff when the only reason we have to deep strike them now is that their deffgun onlt gets half range for some reason. It's not like they get meltas.
The profile is reliable enough. A D3 range is just enough to know what the unit should be targeting. Besides, which profiles were you using when it came to them?
You had the Assault Cannon, Lascannon, Multi-Melta, and TL Plasma Gun. Everything else was too short range to actually be useful (The Flamers and TL Melta) or unreliable (Plasma Cannon). So basically you got 3 shots of any of those weapons max.
M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline
Tervigon
M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+
Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)
Thanks - nay thing Sisters or Inquisiton related - very much appreciated
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: 1. Obliterators aren't nerfed. On average it is a S8 D2 AP-2 gun. That's good for killing elite units and we don't even know what the Legion bonuses are yet, which is kinda important? And the only way you ever deployed them got safer? And now you don't have like 8 different weapons you only get 3 shots each max?
Yeah, SUPER nerfed. If you're dumb.
2. Abigail is kinda okay. Rounding damage down is super good because a Lascannon gets 3 wounds max against him, and now the Talon isn't just a show piece. Do you go for more attacks or less attacks with more strength?
Definitely want to see more though. Any idea if our relics made it?
They were always kinda bad but you can't seriously claim a random profile is better than being restricted from firing whatever you want twice in a row? Deep strike safer? Hardly a buff when the only reason we have to deep strike them now is that their deffgun onlt gets half range for some reason. It's not like they get meltas.
Well... GW wanted to give both and Obliterators and Havocs a role where they overlapped before. Since Obliterators no longer have any decent anti-infantry weapons you have to support them now with CSM. Every unit will have a role to play as they keep telling us.
M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline
Tervigon
M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+
Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)
So Nid MCs finally get proper toughness. That alone will make some of their heavy-hitters way better than they are now...
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The profile is reliable enough. A D3 range is just enough to know what the unit should be targeting.
Well since you get to pick target after rolling you know exactly what to shoot for if you want to maximize effect. Issue comes more when you need specific target dead but don't know how good your guns will be before that.
M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline
Tervigon
M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+
Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)
So Mephiston isn't getting a Primaris model? Darn. His statline already goes well enough with them but I'd like a bigger model.
M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline
Tervigon
M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+
Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)
I'd love to Know what Magnus does if you can find it, especially considering he's 2/3rd his price now, at 415pts.
A mix of leaks from ATT (Tau part) and the Italian forum mentioned:
Eldars: Scatter lasers are 36" Heavy 4 Ap0
Inquisition and Grey Knights: Inquisitors can enter any Imperial vehicle and give bubble buffs to Imperium keyword units, depending on the Ordo chosen
Grey Knights know a nerfed verison of Smite, 12" 1 mortal wound (3 if Daemon keyword)
Necrons: Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
Living metal allows for automatically regaining lost wounds
Basic Gauss is 24" Rapid Fire **Ap-2**, Gauss Cannon is Ap-3 DmgD3
Discipline 10
Warriors cost unchanged form 7th.
Monolith M6" W20 S8 T8 Save3+, Gauss Flux Arc Heavy 3 S5 Ap-2, Whip Heavy 6 S8 Ap-2 DmgD6. When it gets charged, roll on a D6 and if 4+ (or worse, depending on wounds lost) charging unit gets D6 mortal wounds.
Space Marines: Grav is S5 Ap-3 and does DmgD3 if Save is 3+ or better
Nartecium no longer provides FnP but heals a model for D3 wounds
Tau: Markerlights are cumulative per phase and provide different bonuses, depending on how many hit the unit. Basic is reroll 1s, then you have remove cover bonus, increase BS, use Seeker/Destroyer Missiles (normally snapshooting)
Railguns have a chance to do Mortal Wounds
Activating Nova Reactor may result in Mortal Wound
Firesight Marksmen are Independent Characters
Pulse rifles are AP0. Pulse Blasters AP-1 at 10" and AP-2 at 5", Assault 2.
Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits give a -1 malus to BS if shot at from more than 12", can deploy outside of deployment zone at 12".
Broadside Railgun is Heavy 2 S8 Ap-4 DmgD6, HYMP is Heavy 4 S7 Ap-1 DmgD3
Pathfinders and Kroots are faster than Fire Warriors
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The profile is reliable enough. A D3 range is just enough to know what the unit should be targeting.
Well since you get to pick target after rolling you know exactly what to shoot for if you want to maximize effect. Issue comes more when you need specific target dead but don't know how good your guns will be before that.
Which was a problem for the previous iteration anyway? You want a target dead but don't have the appropriate one to use?
Seriously this is a good change.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aenar wrote: A mix of leaks from ATT (Tau part) and the Italian forum mentioned:
Eldars: Scatter lasers are 36" Heavy 4 Ap0
Inquisition and Grey Knights: Inquisitors can enter any Imperial vehicle and give bubble buffs to Imperium keyword units, depending on the Ordo chosen
Grey Knights know a nerfed verison of Smite, 12" 1 mortal wound (3 if Daemon keyword)
Necrons: Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
Living metal allows for automatically regaining lost wounds
Basic Gauss is 24" Rapid Fire **Ap-2**, Gauss Cannon is Ap-3 Dmg Discipline 10
Warriors cost unchanged form 7th.
Monolith M6" W20 S8 T8 Save3+, Gauss Flux Arc Heavy 3 S5 Ap-2, Whip Heavy 6 S8 Ap-2 DmgD6. When it gets charged, roll on a D6 and if 4+ (or worse, depending on wounds lost) charging unit gets D6 mortal wounds.
Space Marines: Grav is S5 Ap-3 and does DmgD3 if Save is 3+ or better
Nartecium no longer provides FnP but heals a model for D3 wounds
Tau: Markerlights are cumulative per phase and provide different bonuses, depending on how many hit the unit. Basic is reroll 1s, then you have remove cover bonus, increase BS, use Seeker/Destroyer Missiles (normally snapshooting)
Railguns have a chance to do Mortal Wounds
Activating Nova Reactor may result in Mortal Wound
Firesight Marksmen are Independent Characters
Pulse rifles are AP0. Pulse Blasters AP-1 at 10" and AP-2 at 5", Assault 2.
Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits give a -1 malus to BS if shot at from more than 12", can deploy outside of deployment zone at 12".
Broadside Railgun is Heavy 2 S8 Ap-4 DmgD6, HYMP is Heavy 4 S7 Ap-1 DmgD3
Pathfinders and Kroots are faster than Fire Warriors
We definitely need more on Necrons, and if this is even correct. A rend of -2 on the basic weapon seems pretty powerful.
However I can live with that change to RP. They can still keep coming back until wiped out.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: [
We definitely need more on Necrons, and if this is even correct. A rend of -2 on the basic weapon seems pretty powerful.
However I can live with that change to RP. They can still keep coming back until wiped out.
There's a bit more on Orks, Tyranids (i.e. Termagaunts cost a bit less than a melta bomb did), Eldars, Mechanicus. I'll try to translate them here asap.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: [
We definitely need more on Necrons, and if this is even correct. A rend of -2 on the basic weapon seems pretty powerful.
However I can live with that change to RP. They can still keep coming back until wiped out.
There's a bit more on Orks, Tyranids (i.e. Termagaunts cost a bit less than a melta bomb did), Eldars, Mechanicus. I'll try to translate them here asap.
Tyranids first please Thank you very much for doing this
BTW has this source posted any kind of photo evidence they have the books?
Aenar wrote: A mix of leaks from ATT (Tau part) and the Italian forum mentioned:
Eldars: Scatter lasers are 36" Heavy 4 Ap0
Inquisition and Grey Knights: Inquisitors can enter any Imperial vehicle and give bubble buffs to Imperium keyword units, depending on the Ordo chosen
Grey Knights know a nerfed verison of Smite, 12" 1 mortal wound (3 if Daemon keyword)
Necrons: Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
Living metal allows for automatically regaining lost wounds
Basic Gauss is 24" Rapid Fire **Ap-2**, Gauss Cannon is Ap-3 DmgD3
Discipline 10
Warriors cost unchanged form 7th.
Monolith M6" W20 S8 T8 Save3+, Gauss Flux Arc Heavy 3 S5 Ap-2, Whip Heavy 6 S8 Ap-2 DmgD6. When it gets charged, roll on a D6 and if 4+ (or worse, depending on wounds lost) charging unit gets D6 mortal wounds.
Space Marines: Grav is S5 Ap-3 and does DmgD3 if Save is 3+ or better
Nartecium no longer provides FnP but heals a model for D3 wounds
Tau: Markerlights are cumulative per phase and provide different bonuses, depending on how many hit the unit. Basic is reroll 1s, then you have remove cover bonus, increase BS, use Seeker/Destroyer Missiles (normally snapshooting)
Railguns have a chance to do Mortal Wounds
Activating Nova Reactor may result in Mortal Wound
Firesight Marksmen are Independent Characters
Pulse rifles are AP0. Pulse Blasters AP-1 at 10" and AP-2 at 5", Assault 2.
Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits give a -1 malus to BS if shot at from more than 12", can deploy outside of deployment zone at 12".
Broadside Railgun is Heavy 2 S8 Ap-4 DmgD6, HYMP is Heavy 4 S7 Ap-1 DmgD3
Pathfinders and Kroots are faster than Fire Warriors
By the emperor thank you! Need more necron leaks as this sounds great!
Tyranids first please Thank you very much for doing this
BTW has this source posted any kind of photo evidence they have the books?
Nope, we are kinda trusting him. Take these rumours with a bit of salt, I guess that in the following hours someone will provide some pics.
Anyway:
Tervigon M8" W14 S7 T8 Save3+, can either create a 10 barebone Termagaunt unit (you need to keep the points for them) OR re-add 10 barebone Termagaunt models to an existing unit.
Ork Battlewagon M12" W16 T7 Save 4+, can get T8 but loses Open-topped. Deff Rolla hits on a 2+, 6 attacks S8 Ap-2.
Excellent reference ! 
)
to anything Jes sketched in the past is pure heresy 
