Also, if anyone finds information on Tzeentch screamers... I'll kiss you right in the mouth for it. I just got done building 30 and have been worried about them.
Adeptus Mechanicus: Forge Worlds keywords, Cawl has Mars keyword and buffs Mars FW units.
Adeptus Mechanicus keyword is shared, Cult Mechanicus kw and Skitarii kw are present to differentiate. Bonuses target AM keyword
Canticles are chosen at the start of each Battle Round and last that much, cannot be chosen twice. Among the effects they allow for rerolling 1s to same FW kw units within 6".
Adeptus Mechanicus: Forge Worlds keywords, Cawl has Mars keyword and buffs Mars FW units.
Adeptus Mechanicus keyword is shared, Cult Mechanicus kw and Skitarii kw are present to differentiate. Bonuses target AM keyword
Canticles are chosen at the start of each Battle Round and last that much, cannot be chosen twice. Among the effects they allow for rerolling 1s to same FW kw units within 6".
Adeptus Mechanicus: Forge Worlds keywords, Cawl has Mars keyword and buffs Mars FW units.
Adeptus Mechanicus keyword is shared, Cult Mechanicus kw and Skitarii kw are present to differentiate. Bonuses target AM keyword
Canticles are chosen at the start of each Battle Round and last that much, cannot be chosen twice. Among the effects they allow for rerolling 1s to same FW kw units within 6".
So we officially got one faction now. Praise the Omnissiah! and thank you
Very keen to see more about the orks. Seems like the battlewagon is less survivable than before, from the front at least, but the deffrolla is even better than the 4th edition one!
Only thing that I read is that they are amongst the Imperial Agents, the Saint gives them some buffs and they have shared rules with the adeptus ministrorum (Act of Faith, Shield of Faith and Zealot)
IG/Astra Militarum has regiment keyword and Orders are given automatically to same regiment kw unit within 6".
EDIT: it looks like flyers give a "small" (no idea how much) malus to hit, not snapshooting anymore.
Only thing that I read is that they are amongst the Imperial Agents, the Saint gives them some buffs and they have shared rules with the adeptus ministrorum (Act of Faith, Shield of Faith and Zealot)
.
Thanks - sounds good - welle xcept the stuck in Agents bit - hopefully they will have Keyword "Order"
Only thing that I read is that they are amongst the Imperial Agents, the Saint gives them some buffs and they have shared rules with the adeptus ministrorum (Act of Faith, Shield of Faith and Zealot)
IG/Astra Militarum has regiment keyword and Orders are given automatically to same regiment kw unit within 6".
EDIT: it looks like flyers give a "small" (no idea how much) malus to hit, not snapshooting anymore.
deathstalker013 wrote: Really disappointed with the Abaddon rules there, after 10000 years and many black crusades he still can't control his own sword. Every time he fights he has a 1 in 6 chance of wounding himself, how is he still alive.
Damage the dude takes is halved (rounding up likely)!
davou wrote: cant find the forum using the 'google search' that was suggested, is there a reason someone can't just link us?
Think I found the forum (forumgwtilea < google it) but I can't get into the various sections as it's waiting to validate the account. Which is a little annoying.
The Heldrake doesn't seem to have any rules which distinguish it from a ground vehicle apart from FLY. Which is the same rule that jump infantry seem to get. Does this mean that jump infantry are going to be largely immune to close combat or that anyone can punch planes now?
Also curious if they still have any penalty to hit them, for much the same reason. Would make jump packs very desirable and possibly make up for jet packs and eldar jetbikes losing their JSJ abilities?
Only thing that I read is that they are amongst the Imperial Agents, the Saint gives them some buffs and they have shared rules with the adeptus ministrorum (Act of Faith, Shield of Faith and Zealot)
IG/Astra Militarum has regiment keyword and Orders are given automatically to same regiment kw unit within 6".
EDIT: it looks like flyers give a "small" (no idea how much) malus to hit, not snapshooting anymore.
EDIT 2: more leaks to follow, stay tuned!
Hi, the English word for "bonus but bad instead of good" is penalty.
Only thing that I read is that they are amongst the Imperial Agents, the Saint gives them some buffs and they have shared rules with the adeptus ministrorum (Act of Faith, Shield of Faith and Zealot)
IG/Astra Militarum has regiment keyword and Orders are given automatically to same regiment kw unit within 6".
EDIT: it looks like flyers give a "small" (no idea how much) malus to hit, not snapshooting anymore.
davou wrote: cant find the forum using the 'google search' that was suggested, is there a reason someone can't just link us?
Think I found the forum (forumgwtilea < google it) but I can't get into the various sections as it's waiting to validate the account. Which is a little annoying.
It is it, but it sadly requires an account to read the discussions. I hope yours get activated soon.
Anyway, it looks like that the guy who is leaking some info (no points yet, apart the Monolith who should be a bit more than 380 points) is going to answer soon some of the tens of questions asked.
Aenar wrote: the Monolith who should be a bit more than 380 points
I was almost worried it might be good for a second there.
(In all seriousness it may still be good, but that makes it sound very prohibitive to field multiples, and the Obelisk must be really pricey if that's the case. I own two and an obelisk so it being over 1000 just to field the three would be a little disappointing even if the rules fully justify the price)
Only thing that I read is that they are amongst the Imperial Agents, the Saint gives them some buffs and they have shared rules with the adeptus ministrorum (Act of Faith, Shield of Faith and Zealot)
IG/Astra Militarum has regiment keyword and Orders are given automatically to same regiment kw unit within 6".
EDIT: it looks like flyers give a "small" (no idea how much) malus to hit, not snapshooting anymore.
EDIT 2: more leaks to follow, stay tuned!
Meh ! The automatic pass of orders is not that great if one compares it to the good probabilities with 7th ed' vox-caster upgraded squads.
Especially if you factor in the range reduction from 12" to 6". That's a real inconvenience in term of playability.
Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote: Could someone confirm if Legion and chapter Tactics are still around? And if so, what does the Death Guard one give your units?
I would just like to know how space marine characters are now handled when the primaris are involved. Is there specific primaris versions of characters and can they be equipped freely? (And what do the lieutenants do?)
This is what doesn't worry me so much now. A monolith should be more expensive than a Land Raider due to it's sheer survivablity (at least in the lore). Likewise Knights (of the Imperial, Heretic and Eldar varieties) being significantly more expensive to factor in them being difficult units to deal with whilst also putting down a serious amount of damage is, in all honesty, a good move.
I guess Oblits aren't getting a plastic kit any time soon. Wow did they do a number on them. This really is "Roll Lots of Dice" edition. Yikes...
But the real tragedy here is that they made the Land Raider T8. Toughness 8. In a game where they've said characteristics aren't limited to 10, what they really meant was Wounds, right?
Toughness 8. Best tank in the universe (fluff-wise), and the whole reason I started playing 40K, the original model of which is one of my most cherished models... and it's T8.
The Dread should be T8. The Land Raider should be T10. God-damn it GW...
H.B.M.C. wrote: I guess Oblits aren't getting a plastic kit any time soon. Wow did they do a number on them. This really is "Roll Lots of Dice" edition. Yikes...
But the real tragedy here is that they made the Land Raider T8. Toughness 8. In a game where they've said characteristics aren't limited to 10, what they really meant was Wounds, right?
Toughness 8. Best tank in the universe (fluff-wise), and the whole reason I started playing 40K, the original model of which is one of my most cherished models... and it's T8.
The Dread should be T8. The Land Raider should be T10. God-damn it GW...
I think the benchmark is they want Melta and Lascannons to always be relevant, and use extra wounds to mark extra durability past that point.
Extra toughness is probably going to be reserved for true titans. T9 for Warhounds and T'aunar. T10 for Reavers. That kinda thing.
Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote: Could someone confirm if Legion and chapter Tactics are still around? And if so, what does the Death Guard one give your units?
I wouldn't count on such detailed info yet.
What's incredibly annoying is that the Contagion discipline picture TEASES us. You can see snippets of Death Guard trait info to the left.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
casvalremdeikun wrote: Wow, Grav being Str 5, AP -3 sucks pretty bad, even if it does d3 wounds against 3+ or better saves. It is barely going to wound anything.
Good. Grav needed to be nerfed. It literally became the go-to for everything over the past two editions and it was bloody ridiculous.
Is it possible to ask for clarification on how the following units work now?
Gretchin & Runtherd
Any kind of Artillery
Terminators with storm shields
Basically, what's the deal with mixed toughness / save units? Do they still exist? Do you have to buy two units to make what used to be one? What battlefield role do they take and do they use a 'slot'?
casvalremdeikun wrote: Wow, Grav being Str 5, AP -3 sucks pretty bad, even if it does d3 wounds against 3+ or better saves. It is barely going to wound anything.
And here I was thinking "wow grav sounds strong I hope they dropped the rate of fire".
It's stil an anti-everything weapon, possibly even more so.
Aenar wrote: the Monolith who should be a bit more than 380 points
I was almost worried it might be good for a second there.
(In all seriousness it may still be good, but that makes it sound very prohibitive to field multiples, and the Obelisk must be really pricey if that's the case. I own two and an obelisk so it being over 1000 just to field the three would be a little disappointing even if the rules fully justify the price)
IF it can still deepstrike (now with no scatter) AND still has some sort of teleportation mechanism with it's portal, I'd say that 380 points is just fine. It's a beast with that particle whip and the ability to gain back wounds with pretty strong defensive stats. It sucks that it makes it difficult to be redundant with it, but if it all pans out I'll take that for the trade off of it at least being worth it's points for the first time since like 3rd edition.
Fun fact. The Heldrake Claws profile, RAW, does not allow hitting Flying targets on +1, because it states "When attacking models than can fly, you may add 1 to this weapon's hit roll."
casvalremdeikun wrote: Wow, Grav being Str 5, AP -3 sucks pretty bad, even if it does d3 wounds against 3+ or better saves. It is barely going to wound anything.
Major exageration - its just less likely to broken now - which is the whole point of the new game I thought - not to have have the same issue of broken wepaons, units, formations etc?
Something for Eldars: - Warp Spiders M7" Save 3+, can choose to move 4d6 and get Fly but cannot Advance nor Charge. Flickerjump gives -1BS to enemy but you roll 2D6 and on a 2 you lose a Warp Spider. Death Spinner is 18" Rapid Fire S6 Ap-4. With Exarch you reroll failed Morale tests.
- Wraithknight W24 S8 T8 Save 3+. Wraithcannon is Assault 2 S10 Ap-4 DmgD6, Ghostglaive is Sx2 Ap-4 Dmg6 straigth (no D6 roll). Hits on a 3+ and gets worse losing wounds.
- D-Scythes are 8" AssaultD3 S10 Ap-4
Verviedi wrote: Fun fact. The Heldrake Claws profile, RAW, does not allow hitting Flying targets on +1, because it states "When attacking models than can fly, you may add 1 to this weapon's hit roll."
It'd need to say "that can fly" to have an effect
Yes but that's the kind of "exact raw" thing that's not even worth bringing up.
Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote: Could someone confirm if Legion and chapter Tactics are still around? And if so, what does the Death Guard one give your units?
GW confirmed that they will still exist yonks ago.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Wow, Grav being Str 5, AP -3 sucks pretty bad, even if it does d3 wounds against 3+ or better saves. It is barely going to wound anything.
Major exageration - its just less likely to broken now - which is the whole point of the new game I thought - not to have have the same issue of broken wepaons, units, formations etc?
If a Grav weapon is still 6 shots and reroll to wound, that profile is -devastating-, and is even good against low save hordes, the one thing Grav couldn't really scratch before.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I guess Oblits aren't getting a plastic kit any time soon. Wow did they do a number on them. This really is "Roll Lots of Dice" edition. Yikes...
But the real tragedy here is that they made the Land Raider T8. Toughness 8. In a game where they've said characteristics aren't limited to 10, what they really meant was Wounds, right?
Toughness 8. Best tank in the universe (fluff-wise), and the whole reason I started playing 40K, the original model of which is one of my most cherished models... and it's T8.
The Dread should be T8. The Land Raider should be T10. God-damn it GW...
The new grav looks ok to me. Wounds most things on 3+ to 5+, reduces the save of most things to zero and inflicts multiple wounds on high save units. I assume it still has a high rate of fire?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I guess Oblits aren't getting a plastic kit any time soon. Wow did they do a number on them. This really is "Roll Lots of Dice" edition. Yikes...
But the real tragedy here is that they made the Land Raider T8. Toughness 8. In a game where they've said characteristics aren't limited to 10, what they really meant was Wounds, right?
Toughness 8. Best tank in the universe (fluff-wise), and the whole reason I started playing 40K, the original model of which is one of my most cherished models... and it's T8.
The Dread should be T8. The Land Raider should be T10. God-damn it GW...
This is utter nonsense. It's one point lower toughness than a damn Bio-titan had in 7E, along with more wounds and a 2+ save it didn't get before. What's more, there are now hard limits preventing it being insta-killed by all but the very biggest weapons in the game; Land Raiders won't exactly be getting popped by a railgun on turn 1. This is not going to be trivial to kill by any stretch.
Aenar wrote: Something for Eldars: - Warp Spiders M7" Save 3+, can choose to move 4d6 and get Fly but cannot Advance nor Charge. Flickerjump gives -1BS to enemy but you roll 2D6 and on a 2 you lose a Warp Spider. Death Spinner is 18" Rapid Fire S6 Ap-4. With Exarch you reroll failed Morale tests.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Wow, Grav being Str 5, AP -3 sucks pretty bad, even if it does d3 wounds against 3+ or better saves. It is barely going to wound anything.
Major exageration - its just less likely to broken now - which is the whole point of the new game I thought - not to have have the same issue of broken wepaons, units, formations etc?
If a Grav weapon is still 6 shots and reroll to wound, that profile is -devastating-, and is even good against low save hordes, the one thing Grav couldn't really scratch before.
Only one Grav weapon in the game was six shots, and that was the Heavy Grav Cannon. The Grav Gun was 3 max, Grav Cannon was 5 max. It is wounding a Wraithknight on a 5, it used to wound them on a 3. If Grav Amps still allow rerolls to wound, that will help the Grav Cannon, but a regular Grav Gun is not very good.
Perfect Organism wrote: Is it possible to ask for clarification on how the following units work now?
Gretchin & Runtherd
Pfff, better ask about stompa and dreds with kans. Or about boys. Grots generally the last thing to worry about.
It's not that I'm excited about grots, it's that I'm curious how units which mix models with very different statlines work. The Tau sniper drones seem to no longer have their spotter in the unit, which raises all kinds of questions.
XT-1984 wrote: Lord of Skulls only 465 points now... Do we know what the standard sized game is for 8th?
1500, 2000?
It's mad eh. Just for fun I dig out my old 3rd Edition Blood Angels list and recost it with every edition, and if the leaks are any indication over the years GW will have turned a 2000pt Marine army into somewhere in the region of 1000pts. I can't even imagine how hilarious the difference would be for a 2nd Ed army.
I can only hope that 8th isn't hideously unbalanced at lower point values, because personally I still prefer playing Epic in 6-8mm not 28mm.
Aenar wrote: Something for Eldars: - Warp Spiders M7" Save 3+, can choose to move 4d6 and get Fly but cannot Advance nor Charge. Flickerjump gives -1BS to enemy but you roll 2D6 and on a 2 you lose a Warp Spider. Death Spinner is 18" Rapid Fire S6 Ap-4. With Exarch you reroll failed Morale tests.
- Wraithknight W24 S8 R8 Save 3+. Wraithcannon is Assault 2 S10 Ap-4 DmgD6, Ghostglaive is Sx2 Ap-4 Dmg6 straigth (no D6 roll). Hits on a 3+ and gets worse losing wounds.
- D-Scythes are 8" AssaultD3 S10 Ap-4
Any info for the avatar of khaine, the solitaire, and the c'tan?
Important disclaimer: I don't have the indices and I am translating from Italian. I am not sure to translate everything correctly but I'm trying to reference current rules to be accurate. The profiles given may not include additional rules (i.e. tau railguns, according to ATT have a chance to do mortal wounds, while the italian guy does not give any indication of that).
casvalremdeikun wrote: Wow, Grav being Str 5, AP -3 sucks pretty bad, even if it does d3 wounds against 3+ or better saves. It is barely going to wound anything.
Major exageration - its just less likely to broken now - which is the whole point of the new game I thought - not to have have the same issue of broken wepaons, units, formations etc?
If a Grav weapon is still 6 shots and reroll to wound, that profile is -devastating-, and is even good against low save hordes, the one thing Grav couldn't really scratch before.
Only one Grav weapon in the game was six shots, and that was the Heavy Grav Cannon. The Grav Gun was 3 max, Grav Cannon was 5 max. It is wounding a Wraithknight on a 5, it used to wound them on a 3. If Grav Amps still allow rerolls to wound, that will help the Grav Cannon, but a regular Grav Gun is not very good.
I wasn't aware that the marine one had one less shot, I play admech when it comes up.
Still, it's the Grav cannon, either variant, that everyone was complaining about for the most part. It was the game breaker and still what'll be the source of most complaint.
And even on Grav bikes, no you are wrong, that is stil a highly dangerous profile that's good at killing any target.
M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline
Tervigon
M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+
Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)
Mephiston sure seems like a huge downgrade from the pocket hive tyrant he's been for the past few editions.
It's not that I'm excited about grots, it's that I'm curious how units which mix models with very different statlines work. The Tau sniper drones seem to no longer have their spotter in the unit, which raises all kinds of questions.
I imagine they'll work the way AoS handles it, you used to have Salamanders and Skink handlers in the same unit. Now you buy both separately, they are in separate units but the Salamander gets buffed if the Skink handlers are within a certain distance.
So you'll probably see Grotherders giving the Grots a bonus to morale, or extra attacks, or re-rolls or anything really. Same for the Tau spotter, he'll probably give the sniper drones a buff to hit I imagine.
Blood Angels: Black Rage gives +1A on the charge and ignores a wound on a roll of a 6.
Death Company: 2A each, models can take different loadouts
Lemartes allows rerolling charge distance and to hit rolls in melee to DC units within 6"
Sanguinary Guard rerolls to hit rolls if there is a BA general within 6"
Death Mask gives -1 Discipline to enemies within 3"
Encarmine Sword Ap-3 DmgD3, Axe S+1 Ap-2 DmgD3
Sanguinor has WS2+ W4 S4 T4 A5, can charge even if he used Fall Back, gives +1A to every BA within 6"
Dante has WS2+ W6 S4 T4 A5 Save 2+, allows BA units within 6" to reroll to hits. Axe is S+2 Ap-3 DmgD3, rerolls to wound if it is a Character
Aenar wrote: Important disclaimer: I don't have the indices and I am translating from Italian. I am not sure to translate everything correctly but I'm trying to reference current rules to be accurate. The profiles given may not include additional rules (i.e. tau railguns, according to ATT have a chance to do mortal wounds, while the italian guy does not give any indication of that).
Please be patient and understanding
Can you tell a fellow Italian player some rules for the Space Wolves?
Can the Grey Hunters still take chainswords or terminator sergeants?
What are the rules for the Wulfens or the TWC?
What's the WS and BS of the Claws units?
Do the Scouts and the Long Fangs have stats or rules that show that they are veteran soldiers instead of recruits like the other ones?
Verviedi wrote: Fun fact. The Heldrake Claws profile, RAW, does not allow hitting Flying targets on +1, because it states "When attacking models than can fly, you may add 1 to this weapon's hit roll."
It'd need to say "that can fly" to have an effect
Fun fact, if you tried to argue that in an actual game you don't have to worry about the wording of rules anymore.
Aenar wrote: Important disclaimer: I don't have the indices and I am translating from Italian. I am not sure to translate everything correctly but I'm trying to reference current rules to be accurate. The profiles given may not include additional rules (i.e. tau railguns, according to ATT have a chance to do mortal wounds, while the italian guy does not give any indication of that).
Please be patient and understanding
Can you tell a fellow Italian player some rules for the Space Wolves?
Can the Grey Hunters still take chainswords or terminator sergeants?
What are the rules for the Wulfens or the TWC?
What's the WS and BS of the Claws units?
Do the Scouts and the Long Fangs have stats or rules that show that they are veteran soldiers instead of recruits like the other ones?
Grazie
Nothing yet on SW sadly, I will post everything I can until I can.
By the way, the Italian server is now overloaded
Aenar wrote: Important disclaimer: I don't have the indices and I am translating from Italian. I am not sure to translate everything correctly but I'm trying to reference current rules to be accurate. The profiles given may not include additional rules (i.e. tau railguns, according to ATT have a chance to do mortal wounds, while the italian guy does not give any indication of that).
Please be patient and understanding
Can you tell a fellow Italian player some rules for the Space Wolves?
Can the Grey Hunters still take chainswords or terminator sergeants?
What are the rules for the Wulfens or the TWC?
What's the WS and BS of the Claws units?
Do the Scouts and the Long Fangs have stats or rules that show that they are veteran soldiers instead of recruits like the other ones?
Grazie
Nothing yet on SW sadly, I will post everything I can until I can.
By the way, the Italian server is now overloaded
It was inevitable when you started posting about this
Aenar wrote: Blood Angels: Black Rage gives +1A on the charge and ignores a wound on a roll of a 6.
Death Company: 2A each, models can take different loadouts
Lemartes allows rerolling charge distance and to hit rolls in melee to DC units within 6"
Sanguinary Guard rerolls to hit rolls if there is a BA general within 6"
Death Mask gives -1 Discipline to enemies within 3"
Encarmine Sword Ap-3 DmgD3, Axe S+1 Ap-2 DmgD3
Sanguinor has WS2+ W4 S4 T4 A5, can charge even if he used Fall Back, gives +1A to every BA within 6"
Dante has WS2+ W6 S4 T4 A5 Save 2+, allows BA units within 6" to reroll to hits. Axe is S+2 Ap-3 DmgD3, rerolls to wound if it is a Character
Hmmm, Death Company with Chainswords will have four attacks on the charge. Their FNP was nerfed, but it no longer can be ignored. Lemartes will make Death Company crazy good. Dante and Sanguinary Guard have duplicate bonuses, so that kind of sucks. The Encarmine weapons look mean as hell though. Sanguinor looks like the better option for running with SG, since he gives a bonus attack and they reroll attacks when near him.
Mephiston looks pretty mean as well, hitting at Str 10, Ap-3, d3 wounds is pretty potent. If he still has 4 attacks, he will wreck face.
M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline
Tervigon
M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+
Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)
Mephiston sure seems like a huge downgrade from the pocket hive tyrant he's been for the past few editions.
There might be extra info we're not seeing right now, but also I assume they want to leave plenty of headroom on the "big name" characters in case they decide to Restartes them when their faction book rolls around.
Only thing that I read is that they are amongst the Imperial Agents, the Saint gives them some buffs and they have shared rules with the adeptus ministrorum (Act of Faith, Shield of Faith and Zealot)
IG/Astra Militarum has regiment keyword and Orders are given automatically to same regiment kw unit within 6".
EDIT: it looks like flyers give a "small" (no idea how much) malus to hit, not snapshooting anymore.
EDIT 2: more leaks to follow, stay tuned!
Can you find out for me if Sergeants/Veteran Sergeants/Tempestor Scions for Imperial Guard can take Lasguns?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I guess Oblits aren't getting a plastic kit any time soon. Wow did they do a number on them. This really is "Roll Lots of Dice" edition. Yikes...
But the real tragedy here is that they made the Land Raider T8. Toughness 8. In a game where they've said characteristics aren't limited to 10, what they really meant was Wounds, right?
Toughness 8. Best tank in the universe (fluff-wise), and the whole reason I started playing 40K, the original model of which is one of my most cherished models... and it's T8.
The Dread should be T8. The Land Raider should be T10. God-damn it GW...
And if it had been T10 you would have said it should be T12. And if the oblit would of not had any random you'd of complained it was boring. Be real dude, complaining is like 80% of your enjoyment at this point.
Space Wolves: Thunderwolves Cavalry M10" W3 S4 T5 Save 3+, same equip as before and they cost nine melta bombs without equipments
Lord on Wolf has W7
Frost weapons add a mortal wound on a 6 (not clear on what dice roll)
Runic Armours give 5+ Invuln Save (4+ if Terminator)
Eldars: Banshees M8" A2 Save 4+. Always attack first with the mask, add 3" to Advance and Charge rolls, Exarch gives a -1 penalty to hit in melee to enemy models. Executioner Blade is WS-1 S+2 Ap-3 DmgD3
casvalremdeikun wrote: Wow, Grav being Str 5, AP -3 sucks pretty bad, even if it does d3 wounds against 3+ or better saves. It is barely going to wound anything.
You'll wreck the gak out of primi marines and termis and other heavy infantry with it though .
So a Defiler point Increase. Literally everyone I know loves the model but doesn't take it because of the huge points investment . Wish the datasheet for it would have been leaked. I love my Defiler. I bring him out on big games even though all he does is draw fire and die turn 1 but damn if I wasn't hoping for a points decrease. I hope he got a huge buff to make up for it.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Wow, Grav being Str 5, AP -3 sucks pretty bad, even if it does d3 wounds against 3+ or better saves. It is barely going to wound anything.
You'll wreck the gak out of primi marines and termis and other heavy infantry with it though .
I really like the fact they threw in a PDF for making custom chapters. I can't wait to pass some of the boring hours at work coming up with some new Chapters.
One thing I noticed from the Chaos leak is Rhinos are frickin' 70 points now. I hate to think of what Drop Pods and Razorbacks run. Land Raiders are 239 pts BEFORE wargear. They will likely run close to 300 pts after wargear. Never would I have thought either of these units would get a points INCREASE.
The 'S' in MSU now means "slightly bigger" for the Tau. Har-har. I'm not super surprised though, I think we might see a lot less single infantry types as units. That seems to fit the new tone of the game.
No I don't remember, did the Oblit leak mention squad size?
XT-1984 wrote: Lord of Skulls only 465 points now... Do we know what the standard sized game is for 8th?
1500, 2000?
It's mad eh. Just for fun I dig out my old 3rd Edition Blood Angels list and recost it with every edition, and if the leaks are any indication over the years GW will have turned a 2000pt Marine army into somewhere in the region of 1000pts. I can't even imagine how hilarious the difference would be for a 2nd Ed army.
I can only hope that 8th isn't hideously unbalanced at lower point values, because personally I still prefer playing Epic in 6-8mm not 28mm.
It is 485 without gear. People need to keep that in mind.
casvalremdeikun wrote: One thing I noticed from the Chaos leak is Rhinos are frickin' 70 points now. I hate to think of what Drop Pods and Razorbacks run. Land Raiders are 239 pts BEFORE wargear. They will likely run close to 300 pts after wargear. Never would I have thought either of these units would get a points INCREASE.
Considering the statline change it's actually fair. I mean, would it really be balanced if it was still 35 points?
Aenar wrote: Some new leaks: Storm Shields still provide 3+ Invuln save
ATSKNF rerolls failed Morale tests
From ATT:
Crisis suits minimum squad size is 3
On a 6 to wound, Railguns do mortal wounds
Oh lame, monats are a part of the fun of tau army building.
Not a problem. Since you'll still be able to take suits as an HQ choice, take a Supreme Command detachment for 3-5 suits or the Auxiliary Support detachment if you really need that one suit. They may be more expensive, but assuming they're still characters they won't be able to shot at unless they're the closest unit.
casvalremdeikun wrote: One thing I noticed from the Chaos leak is Rhinos are frickin' 70 points now. I hate to think of what Drop Pods and Razorbacks run. Land Raiders are 239 pts BEFORE wargear. They will likely run close to 300 pts after wargear. Never would I have thought either of these units would get a points INCREASE.
Considering the statline change it's actually fair. I mean, would it really be balanced if it was still 35 points?
They've got tougher, and you can Assault after disembarking. Definitely means Transports need some kind of points increase.
Double? Well, if it's not isolated to the Rhino and the other transports also go up
casvalremdeikun wrote: One thing I noticed from the Chaos leak is Rhinos are frickin' 70 points now. I hate to think of what Drop Pods and Razorbacks run. Land Raiders are 239 pts BEFORE wargear. They will likely run close to 300 pts after wargear. Never would I have thought either of these units would get a points INCREASE.
Considering the statline change it's actually fair. I mean, would it really be balanced if it was still 35 points?
They've got tougher, and you can Assault after disembarking. Definitely means Transports need some kind of points increase.
Double? Well, if it's not isolated to the Rhino and the other transports also go up
70 points likely without any wargear.
To be fair it has MC stats so it needs to be costed appropiately.
It might even be a sign of some MC (like the Fex) getting cheaper on a core basis.
casvalremdeikun wrote: One thing I noticed from the Chaos leak is Rhinos are frickin' 70 points now. I hate to think of what Drop Pods and Razorbacks run. Land Raiders are 239 pts BEFORE wargear. They will likely run close to 300 pts after wargear. Never would I have thought either of these units would get a points INCREASE.
Considering the statline change it's actually fair. I mean, would it really be balanced if it was still 35 points?
They've got tougher, and you can Assault after disembarking. Definitely means Transports need some kind of points increase.
Double? Well, if it's not isolated to the Rhino and the other transports also go up
70 points likely without any wargear.
To be fair it has MC stats so it needs to be costed appropiately.
It might even be a sign of some MC (like the Fex) getting cheaper on a core basis.
MadCowCrazy wrote: As a Sisters of Battle player Primaris Marines and new Dreadnought annoy the doodoo out of me.
Black Reach starter box Dreadnought SM Dreadnought BA Furioso Dreadnought SM Venerable Dreadnought SW Venerable Dreadnought Ironclad Dreadnought Contemptor Dreadnought
and now Redemptor Dreadnought....
Where are my plastic Penitent Engines darn it!!!
We can do the same but instead of listing all the dreadnought we list all the plastic space marines infantry kits made instead of making plastics Sisters of Battle. But then it would break Dakka's limit of line per messages .
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Is there any topic and any thread that doesn't have a sisters player moaning in it?
Well, all the threads about Sisters of Battle actual releases.
Spoiler:
This is another way to answer “No thread”.
GW wrote: Many Chapter Planets are now actively under siege, some Chapters are confirmed as destroyed*[…]
*Don’t worry – none of the big ones, though Magnus gave it a pretty good go at Fenris…
Aenar wrote: From ATT:
Crisis suits minimum squad size is 3
And there goes the thing about all previous armies being legal still.
The army is still legal, unless you're the kind of person that only built less than 3 crisis suits. Or is it that you can't field them as 3 separate units that's your problem?
Aenar wrote: From ATT:
Crisis suits minimum squad size is 3
And there goes the thing about all previous armies being legal still.
The army is still legal, unless you're the kind of person that only built less than 3 crisis suits. Or is it that you can't field them as 3 separate units that's your problem?
Even if your whole army only had 1 or 2 crisis, it's still valid, there's the Understrength Units rule.
It's a huge waste of points and you'll probably want to buy the minimum 3 as soon as possible, but it's still a valid army
Aenar wrote: From ATT:
Crisis suits minimum squad size is 3
And there goes the thing about all previous armies being legal still.
The army is still legal, unless you're the kind of person that only built less than 3 crisis suits. Or is it that you can't field them as 3 separate units that's your problem?
Even if your whole army only had 1 or 2 crisis, it's still valid, there's the Understrength Units rule.
It's a huge waste of points and you'll probably want to buy the minimum 3 as soon as possible, but it's still a valid army
I forgot about that. That means that I'm open play you could have a vet sergeant leading the army. Probably a terrible idea but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Nothing new for now, I will post here a collection of all the recent leaks I translated:
Spoiler:
Adeptus Mechanicus: Forge Worlds keywords, Cawl has Mars keyword and buffs Mars FW units
Adeptus Mechanicus keyword is shared, Cult Mechanicus kw and Skitarii kw are present to differentiate. Bonuses target AM keyword
Canticles are chosen at the start of each Battle Round and last that much, cannot be chosen twice. Among the effects they allow for rerolling 1s to same FW kw units within 6"
Astra Militarum: Regiment keywords
Orders are given automatically to same Regiment keyword unit within 6"
Blood Angels: Black Rage gives +1A on the charge and ignores a wound on a roll of a 6.
Death Company: 2A each, models can take different loadouts
Lemartes allows rerolling charge distance and to hit rolls in melee to DC units within 6"
Sanguinary Guard rerolls to hit rolls if there is a BA general within 6"
Death Mask gives -1 Discipline to enemies within 3"
Encarmine Sword Ap-3 DmgD3, Axe S+1 Ap-2 DmgD3
Sanguinor has WS2+ W4 S4 T4 A5, can charge even if he used Fall Back, gives +1A to every BA within 6"
Dante has WS2+ W6 S4 T4 A5 Save 2+, allows BA units within 6" to reroll to hits. Axe is S+2 Ap-3 DmgD3, rerolls to wound if it is a Character
Eldars: Scatter lasers are 36" Heavy 4 Ap0
Warp Spiders M7" Save 3+, can move 4d6 and get Fly but cannot Advance nor Charge. Flickerjump goves -1BS to enemy but you roll 2D6 and on a 2 you lose a Warp Spider. Death Spinner is 18" Rapid Fire S6 Ap-4. With Exarch you reroll failed Morale tests.
Wraithknight W24 S8 R8 Save 3+. Wraithcannon is Assault 2 S10 Ap-4 DmgD6, Ghostglaive is Sx2 Ap-4 Dmg6 straigth (no D6 roll). Hits on a 3+ and gets worse losing wounds
D-Scythes are 8" AssaultD3 S10 Ap-4
Banshees M8" A2 Save 4+. Always attack first with the mask, add 3" to Advance and Charge rolls, Exarch gives a -1 penalty to hit in melee to enemy models. Executioner Blade is WS-1 S+2 Ap-3 DmgD3
Inquisition, Grey Knights and Sisters: Inquisitors can enter any Imperial vehicle and give bubble buffs to Imperium keyword units, depending on the Ordo chosen
Grey Knights know a nerfed verison of Smite, 12" 1 mortal wound (3 if Daemon keyword)
Sisters are amongst the Imperial Agents, the Saint gives them some buffs and they have shared rules with the adeptus ministrorum (Act of Faith, Shield of Faith and Zealot)
Necrons: Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
Living metal allows for automatically regaining lost wounds
Basic Gauss is 24" Rapid Fire **Ap-2**, Gauss Cannon is Ap-3 DmgD3
Discipline 10
Warriors cost unchanged form 7th
Monolith M6" W20 S8 T8 Save3+, Gauss Flux Arc Heavy 3 S5 Ap-2, Whip Heavy 6 S8 Ap-2 DmgD6. When it gets charged, roll on a D6 and if 4+ (or worse, depending on wounds lost) charging unit gets D6 mortal wounds.
Orks: Ork Battlewagon M12" W16 T7 Save 4+, can get T8 but loses Open-topped. Deff Rolla hits on a 2+, 6 attacks S8 Ap-2
Space Marines: Grav is S5 Ap-3 and does DmgD3 if Save is 3+ or better
Nartecium no longer provides FnP but heals a model for D3 wounds
Storm Shields still provide 3+ Invuln save
ATSKNF rerolls failed Morale tests
Space Wolves: Thunderwolves Cavalry M10" W3 S4 T5 Save 3+, same equip as before and they cost nine melta bombs without equipments
Lord on Wolf has W7
Frost weapons add a mortal wound on a 6 (not clear on what dice roll)
Runic Armours give 5+ Invuln Save (4+ if Terminator).
Tau: (from ATT also)
Markerlights are cumulative per phase and provide different bonuses, depending on how many hit the unit. Basic is reroll 1s, then you have remove cover bonus, increase BS, use Seeker/Destroyer Missiles (normally snapshooting)
Railguns have a chance to do Mortal Wounds on a to-wound roll of 6
Activating Nova Reactor may result in Mortal Wound
Firesight Marksmen are Independent Characters
Pulse rifles are AP0. Pulse Blasters AP-1 at 10" and AP-2 at 5", Assault 2.
Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits give a -1 penalty to BS if shot at from more than 12", can deploy outside of deployment zone at 12"
Broadside Railgun is Heavy 2 S8 Ap-4 DmgD6, HYMP is Heavy 4 S7 Ap-1 DmgD3
Pathfinders and Kroots are faster than Fire Warriors
Crisis Suits minimum squad size is 3
Tyranids: Termagaunts cost a bit less than a melta bomb
Tervigon M8" W14 S7 T8 Save3+, can either create a 10 fleshborer Termagaunt unit (you need to keep the points for them) OR re-add fleshborer Termagaunt models to an existing unit
I'll try to add anything new in a few hours. I'll write here again that I am not the one with the Indices but I am translating the leaks as best as I can. I may do some mistakes and the leaks may not be accurate at 100%, but until we get some pictures it is all we have.
Bless you all!
That change actually goes against the fluff because it eliminates the "monat" units, the guys who lost their squad mates and started operating alone.
What I'm interested in more is the max squad size, which in the 7th edition book was upped to a whopping 9 suits from the previous 3. Is 3 a hard limit now or are you able to spam 9 of them per "slot" still?
Also, I want to know what the pulse carbine does. With the old rules there was never a reason to take it over a rifle, and with the addition of breachers and their pulse blasters being strictly better than the carbines there was literally no point in them at all. I want to know if there's a reason to arm fire warriors with carbines now or not.
Sidstyler wrote: That change actually goes against the fluff because it eliminates the "monat" units, the guys who lost their squad mates and started operating alone.
What I'm interested in more is the max squad size, which in the 7th edition book was upped to a whopping 9 suits from the previous 3. Is 3 a hard limit now or are you able to spam 9 of them per "slot" still?
Also, I want to know what the pulse carbine does. With the old rules there was never a reason to take it over a rifle, and with the addition of breachers and their pulse blasters being strictly better than the carbines there was literally no point in them at all. I want to know if there's a reason to arm fire warriors with carbines now or not.
Understrength unit rules means you can still do it...you're just paying for his dead friends to come along too.
Sidstyler wrote: That change actually goes against the fluff because it eliminates the "monat" units, the guys who lost their squad mates and started operating alone.
What I'm interested in more is the max squad size, which in the 7th edition book was upped to a whopping 9 suits from the previous 3. Is 3 a hard limit now or are you able to spam 9 of them per "slot" still?
I'm actually a bit more interested as to how this affects the Bodyguard Squads.
Also, I want to know what the pulse carbine does. With the old rules there was never a reason to take it over a rifle, and with the addition of breachers and their pulse blasters being strictly better than the carbines there was literally no point in them at all. I want to know if there's a reason to arm fire warriors with carbines now or not.
If I had to guess, Pulse Carbines are going to have Assault and some kind of modifier for Battleshock tests or the ability to reduce a unit's Movement stat.
Oh for pity's sake, Space Marines faction focus? If they hadn't put the name of the cover of the Xeno Index, I'd be wondering if they'd squatted Necrons entirely. I mean, great, Grav has been shown to basically be a better heavy bolter, but we already knew more about SM than any other faction. I'm 99% sure they've delayed the Necron focus because of those guys on FB.
Eyjio wrote: Oh for pity's sake, Space Marines faction focus? If they hadn't put the name of the cover of the Xeno Index, I'd be wondering if they'd squatted Necrons entirely. I mean, great, Grav has been shown to basically be a better heavy bolter, but we already knew more about SM than any other faction. I'm 99% sure they've delayed the Necron focus because of those guys on FB.
Yeah, I don't think I learned anything from that other than how to spell dreadnought (apparently you roll for it: 4+ use an O, otherwise use an A!)
Yup, Grav Cannon is now not that much better than a Heavy Bolter, and a Centurion has TWO heavy Bolters. If Crimson Fists get a bonus with Bolt weapons, my Grav Cannons are coming off and getting replaced by TL Heavy Bolters.
Eyjio wrote: Oh for pity's sake, Space Marines faction focus? If they hadn't put the name of the cover of the Xeno Index, I'd be wondering if they'd squatted Necrons entirely. I mean, great, Grav has been shown to basically be a better heavy bolter, but we already knew more about SM than any other faction. I'm 99% sure they've delayed the Necron focus because of those guys on FB.
Look on the bright side; That statline for Grav confirmed the other text-only leaks are real by matching up to it.
Also they nerfed the rate of fire slightly, and Grav amps either do nothing or have an effect already included in the profile.
If I were one of the GW community folks and had any say over the order of release of these things I'd be holding back on the Necron and Sister's ones on purpose. Pop some popcorn and watch the fireworks. Marvelous.
Fenris-77 wrote: If I were one of the GW community folks and had any say over the order of release of these things I'd be holding back on the Necron and Sister's ones on purpose. Pop some popcorn and watch the fireworks. Marvelous.
I hope the Sisters one comes absolutely last and is written like the awful first article.
Eyjio wrote: Oh for pity's sake, Space Marines faction focus? If they hadn't put the name of the cover of the Xeno Index, I'd be wondering if they'd squatted Necrons entirely. I mean, great, Grav has been shown to basically be a better heavy bolter, but we already knew more about SM than any other faction. I'm 99% sure they've delayed the Necron focus because of those guys on FB.
Admech/Skiitari, Inq, SoB, BA, DA, SW, Talons, Ynnari, DW.
Fenris-77 wrote: If I were one of the GW community folks and had any say over the order of release of these things I'd be holding back on the Necron and Sister's ones on purpose. Pop some popcorn and watch the fireworks. Marvelous.
I hope the Sisters one comes absolutely last and is written like the awful first article.
I exoect that, but hope they just "here's the rules, figure it out" and don,t even bother with an article.
Fenris-77 wrote: If I were one of the GW community folks and had any say over the order of release of these things I'd be holding back on the Necron and Sister's ones on purpose. Pop some popcorn and watch the fireworks. Marvelous.
I hope the Sisters one comes absolutely last and is written like the awful first article.
By the point all the rules would have been leaked anyway.
Eyjio wrote: Oh for pity's sake, Space Marines faction focus? If they hadn't put the name of the cover of the Xeno Index, I'd be wondering if they'd squatted Necrons entirely. I mean, great, Grav has been shown to basically be a better heavy bolter, but we already knew more about SM than any other faction. I'm 99% sure they've delayed the Necron focus because of those guys on FB.
Admech/Skiitari, Inq, SoB, BA, DA, SW, Talons, Ynnari, DW.
You're not the only one waiting.
It would be kind of ridiculous to do articles on talons which have two units and ynnari which are some characters and a bit of an alliance bonus.
Fenris-77 wrote: If I were one of the GW community folks and had any say over the order of release of these things I'd be holding back on the Necron and Sister's ones on purpose. Pop some popcorn and watch the fireworks. Marvelous.
I hope the Sisters one comes absolutely last and is written like the awful first article.
From the FB:
But we will bring you an Adepta Sororitas article in the next few days too.
Eyjio wrote: Oh for pity's sake, Space Marines faction focus? If they hadn't put the name of the cover of the Xeno Index, I'd be wondering if they'd squatted Necrons entirely. I mean, great, Grav has been shown to basically be a better heavy bolter, but we already knew more about SM than any other faction. I'm 99% sure they've delayed the Necron focus because of those guys on FB.
Admech/Skiitari, Inq, SoB, BA, DA, SW, Talons, Ynnari, DW.
You're not the only one waiting.
It would be kind of ridiculous to do articles on talons which have two units and ynnari which are some characters and a bit of an alliance bonus.
Unless there's a miscellany article I guess.
There's nothing stopping them from doing more than one focus a day of they want, nor of just skipping factions that don't really warrant their own article (sorry Ynnari, I'm looking at you). I wouldn't be surprised if Agents of the Imperium FF isn't all of their shizz in a single article too - Talons, Assassins, Inquisitors, Sisters, the whole shooting match.
Fenris-77 wrote: If I were one of the GW community folks and had any say over the order of release of these things I'd be holding back on the Necron and Sister's ones on purpose. Pop some popcorn and watch the fireworks. Marvelous.
I hope the Sisters one comes absolutely last and is written like the awful first article.
From the FB:
But we will bring you an Adepta Sororitas article in the next few days too.
Too bad for you .
Great, so we will have to deal with Sisters players bitching about LITERALLY EVERYTHING even sooner. Fantastic.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Great, so we will have to deal with Sisters players bitching about LITERALLY EVERYTHING even sooner. Fantastic.
Well at least we won't post in every faction focus FB thread anymore if we get ours .
And no I don't care in the slightest if that annoys you, why would I? You are not exactly giving me reasons to…
I'm just wondering how things like Ork Clans, Eldar Craftworlds, Various IG Regiments (Catachan Steel Legion Etc) are going to be handled. Getting shotgun blast appendix lists that roll a bunch of armies together doesn't seem to leave much room for that sort of thing. Then again, they are making room for seemingly every chapter imaginable of Spesh Muhreens and Chaos.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Great, so we will have to deal with Sisters players bitching about LITERALLY EVERYTHING even sooner. Fantastic.
I swear, every time I come to this thread to read about the latest faction focus or rule snippet, vocal sisters players are grumbling and drowning the discussion. The most popular faction gets its focus and the next few responses are pretty much "but where's the sisters one?"
Fenris-77 wrote: If I were one of the GW community folks and had any say over the order of release of these things I'd be holding back on the Necron and Sister's ones on purpose. Pop some popcorn and watch the fireworks. Marvelous.
I hope the Sisters one comes absolutely last and is written like the awful first article.
From the FB:
But we will bring you an Adepta Sororitas article in the next few days too.
docdoom77 wrote: I really hope the "predator autocannon" matches the badboy in HH. Heavy 4 would make it a valid configuration.
I had the same thought as well. Was glad that they called it out as the "predator autocannon" rather then just “autocannon”.
Although with everything getting split fire, I’ll have to revisit my pred preferences.
My predator is a Rogue Trader model (for my RT Crimson Fists), so I'm stuck with my loadout and the autocannon, HB loadout was not good in 7th.... but it was very cheap, that will change either way.
From Facebook, about Black Templars and Chapters Tactics:
Hi Tim,
Crusader Squads are certainly still a thing.
We'll see if we can cover specific Chapters after we've done at least an overview of all the main armies first.
changemod wrote:Look on the bright side; That statline for Grav confirmed the other text-only leaks are real by matching up to it.
Also they nerfed the rate of fire slightly, and Grav amps either do nothing or have an effect already included in the profile.
I'll be honest, if the Necron stuff is even close to correct (AP-2 for guns which used to be bolters at no points increase, monolith is a 380 points with a super battle cannon, etc) then I'll be extremely surprised. It would also be pretty frustrating if it does turn out to be true, as it would imply that the Necron play style has been substantially changed and they've sat on it.
ERJAK wrote:Admech/Skiitari, Inq, SoB, BA, DA, SW, Talons, Ynnari, DW.
You're not the only one waiting.
Making it all the more annoying that SM came today. Particularly for mechanicus stuff, it's infuriating that there's been no explanation of how they're going to work without their formations/HQ for skiitari. Ad Mech and Necrons know the least; they don't know anything about their weapons, how their vehicles work, how their forces organise, what any of their special rules referencing old mechanics will do, etc - they're by far the factions which would be the most interesting to discuss. Sisters would then be the most interesting after that, as they've got a whole bunch of unique things. SW/DA/BA are major factions, but beyond "space wolves wolfblaster wolves attack with S8 AP-2 D6 damage instead of removing things from play", they already know way more than most factions as they share the statlines with marine ones we've already seen.
As for other people complaining about people excited to see something on their faction because they've got theirs - feel free to browse one of the many other threads on DakkaDakka. Please.
docdoom77 wrote: I really hope the "predator autocannon" matches the badboy in HH. Heavy 4 would make it a valid configuration.
I dunno, AM have the twin-linked autocannon battletank which would now be H4 due to the new twin-linked rule. In 7th Predators where actually a better choice for an AM commander due to their lower cost, hopefully it won't be the same in 8th
docdoom77 wrote: I really hope the "predator autocannon" matches the badboy in HH. Heavy 4 would make it a valid configuration.
I had the same thought as well. Was glad that they called it out as the "predator autocannon" rather then just “autocannon”.
Although with everything getting split fire, I’ll have to revisit my pred preferences.
Ooo, I didn't notice that. Might dig out the Annihilator I've got knocking about somewhere. Although I do wish it had las sponsons for proper old-school cred.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Great, so we will have to deal with Sisters players bitching about LITERALLY EVERYTHING even sooner. Fantastic.
I swear, every time I come to this thread to read about the latest faction focus or rule snippet, vocal sisters players are grumbling and drowning the discussion. The most popular faction gets its focus and the next few responses are pretty much "but where's the sisters one?"
Try sifting through the Facebook posts. Sisters area actually the least vocal of the groups begging to be next.
So many posts about "me next!"
The stuff we have here, and even the stuff I've posted here has been tame in comparison to that level of drek to wade through.
Thing people forget that for Sisters players, we're just as in character in our fanatical devotion as some Ork players are when they bellow their Waaaaaaaghs.
That said, my Sisters are taking a break for now because I await plastics but I still am interested in the rules and if there are any hints on which direction the army will go design-wise in the future. But I hold that interest for all the armies.
Look on the bright side; That statline for Grav confirmed the other text-only leaks are real by matching up to it.
Also they nerfed the rate of fire slightly, and Grav amps either do nothing or have an effect already included in the profile.
I'll be honest, if the Necron stuff is even close to correct (AP-2 for guns which used to be bolters at no points increase, monolith is a 380 points with a super battle cannon, etc) then I'll be extremely surprised. It would also be pretty frustrating if it does turn out to be true, as it would imply that the Necron play style has been substantially changed and they've sat on it.
ERJAK wrote:Admech/Skiitari, Inq, SoB, BA, DA, SW, Talons, Ynnari, DW.
You're not the only one waiting.
Making it all the more annoying that SM came today. Particularly for mechanicus stuff, it's infuriating that there's been no explanation of how they're going to work without their formations/HQ for skiitari. Ad Mech and Necrons know the least; they don't know anything about their weapons, how their vehicles work, how their forces organise, what any of their special rules referencing old mechanics will do, etc - they're by far the factions which would be the most interesting to discuss. Sisters would then be the most interesting after that, as they've got a whole bunch of unique things. SW/DA/BA are major factions, but beyond "space wolves wolfblaster wolves attack with S8 AP-2 D6 damage instead of removing things from play", they already know way more than most factions as they share the statlines with marine ones we've already seen.
As for other people complaining about people excited to see something on their faction because they've got theirs - feel free to browse one of the many other threads on DakkaDakka. Please.
It did have those asterisks around it. I'm guessing that it only gets that profile on 'to wound' roll of '6' or something similar. I LOVE those RP rules, I hope that's legit.
The change to grav is interesting. Make it a reasonable choice against light vehicles and weaker MCs while not being unreasonable against horde units. It really shines against low save models like Terminators and Inceptors with the extra damage potential, weakening of their saves and HB strength.
I can see it being relegated to an elite unit hunter with light duty against other stuff going forward.
So the Smoke Launcher on the Chaos Land Raider states "Once per game, instead of shooting any weapons in the Shooting phase, a Chaos Land Raider can use its Smoke Launchers..."
The Advancing section of the leaked rulebook pages state "A unit that Advances can't shoot or charge later that turn."
Does that mean if you Advance, you can't use a Smoke Launcher?
flakpanzer wrote: So the Smoke Launcher on the Chaos Land Raider states "Once per game, instead of shooting any weapons in the Shooting phase, a Chaos Land Raider can use its Smoke Launchers..."
The Advancing section of the leaked rulebook pages state "A unit that Advances can't shoot or charge later that turn."
Does that mean if you Advance, you can't use a Smoke Launcher?
It's not a weapon or shooting attack, so why can't you?
ClockworkZion wrote: The change to grav is interesting. Make it a reasonable choice against light vehicles and weaker MCs while not being unreasonable against horde units. It really shines against low save models like Terminators and Inceptors with the extra damage potential, weakening of their saves and HB strength.
I can see it being relegated to an elite unit hunter with light duty against other stuff going forward.
I’m interested to see how it compares to plasma. Right now we’ve seen the heavy grav and the regular plasma. In 7th plasma is a similar role, but 2nd fiddle to grav in almost all cases. I think now grav might be better vs tough, but still normal-ish things, while plasma is better vs big tough monsters.
flakpanzer wrote: So the Smoke Launcher on the Chaos Land Raider states "Once per game, instead of shooting any weapons in the Shooting phase, a Chaos Land Raider can use its Smoke Launchers..."
The Advancing section of the leaked rulebook pages state "A unit that Advances can't shoot or charge later that turn."
Does that mean if you Advance, you can't use a Smoke Launcher?
It's not a weapon or shooting attack, so why can't you?
I thought the same thing when I read it. Advancing, then popping smoke seem like a great tactic to get in position. Another guy in my gaming group vehemently disagrees, though.
Crimson Devil wrote: I'm disappointed Grav Cannons are heavy 4. I always felt that it was it's RoF that was the main problem with it.
Well, it looks like they ditched salvo as a weapon type, so heavy 4 seems a decent replacement.
I wonder what other previously salvo weapons will end up at? Looks like they opened up the Rapid Fire type to allow more shots. But should grav guns be rapid fire 2? Seems a bit much. Probably the closest match though.
Grav was always going to be changed to Rapid Fire or Heavy with the loss of Salvo. Centurians will likely have a rule to negate moving and shooting heavy weapons at -1.
Remember, we have no idea how much grav costs now compared to other things. Until we see some points or how it looks on cents. I am glad we might get actual comparable kit out options.
Aenar wrote: Some new leaks: Storm Shields still provide 3+ Invuln save
ATSKNF rerolls failed Morale tests
From ATT:
Crisis suits minimum squad size is 3
On a 6 to wound, Railguns do mortal wounds
Hmm if wounds are allocated presave and damage after storm shield cam bd used to save while casualties come elsewhere?
No. If you allocate a wound to a model with a stormshield to use it's save, then if you fail the save the damage is applied to the model with the stormshield.
thanks for the link - have copied here as well but not the pts etc
Spoiler:
Sisters of Battle are one of those factions that many people care a lot about. So are you concerned about what will happen to them in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000? I am, so lets see what in store for Sisters fans everywhere.
While this is not out yet, it comes from a good source who has been obviously waiting for Sisters of Battle to come back and be good. There is a review of what he read afterwards, and is of course his own opinion (since I have not yet seen any of this personally) at this point of the game.
via sent in from someone who apparently has seen the new Index.
Hey, as Sisters of Battle are the only force worth mentioning here are some
changes made to the army:
The Sisters have been "half split" into 2 parts: Adeptus Ministorum and
Adepta Sororitas
Units have a "Order" key word, this keyword represents the name
of your Order (Chapter for you Spheezee Mehreene players) and can be
changed to whatever you like. Example would be "Order of Expensive Metal
Models We WANT PLASTIC!". This would change the Canoness Lead the
Righteous ability to say "You can re-roll all hit rolls of 1 for
friendly Order of Expensive Metal Models We WANT PLASTIC! units within
6" of this model.
Acts of Faith
Roll a D6 at the start of each of your turns. On a roll of 2+, one unit
from your army with the Acts of Faith ability can perform an Act of
Faith chosen from the following list. Som abilities may allow you to use
more than on Act of Faith in the same turn; when this is the case, a
different unit must be chosen to perform each Act of Faith.
First glance impressons: We are back to the White Dwarf of uselessness
with an Act of Faith system that does not scale with larger armies.
1D6 per 500pts (whatever that is in power points) would be better or
with the new acts of faith allowing a unit to use any of them once per game.
An army ability should be powerful and represent the army, one unit per
turn out of 5 is decent, one out of 10 is meh and beyond is bad.
You can do more than one AoF per turn though, more on this later.
Hand of the Emperor: The unit can immediately move as if it were the
Movement phase.
Divine Guidance: The unit can immediately shoot as if it were the
Shooting phase.
The Passion: The unit can, if it is within 1" of an enemy unit,
immediately pile in and attack as if it were the Fight phase.
Spirit of the Martyr: One model in the unit recovers D3 lost wounds, or
you can return a single slain model to the unit with 1 wound remaining.
First glance impressions: Interesting but very lacking, Divine Guidance
is the new Twin-Linked and The Passion seems pretty meh/useless to be
honest (haven't played a game though nor read the full rulebook yet. Got
that next to me and will flip through it tonight.)
I would have liked to see one that gives +1 To Hit with all attacks
until your next turn, or all attacks auto hit for this turn.
Divine Intervention could have been all models get an Invulnerable save
equal to their armor save like they had in 3E Witch Hunter codex or even
make it so no attack could lower the armor save of models in the unit
for a game turn.
The Passion could have been a unit can move D6 and if within 1" of enemy
models charge them.
Hand of the Emperor could have been good for assault if transports had
the Acts of Faith ability, then you could move the vehicle and then
during your movement phase disembark and later assault.
Shield of Faith: 6+ Inv save and can deny one psychic power in each
enemy psychic phase in the same manner as a psyker but on D6 instead of 2D6.
Zealot: re-roll failed to hit rolls in a turn which the unit charged,
made a heroic intervention or was charged by an enemy unit.
Uriah Jacobus: 5power
4++
Banner of Sanctity: +1Ld to ministorum and AM units within 6"
All Priests
4++
M6"
War Hymns: You can add 1 to the Attack characteristics of all friendly
Ministorum and astra militarum infantry within 6" of any friendly
ministorum priest.
Crusaders: 1power for 2 models, 5power for 10
M6" WS3 S3 A2
Zealot
Acts of Faith: This is new
Death Cult Assassins: 1power for 2, 5 for 10
M7" WS3 S4 A4
5+ 5++
Zealot
Death Cult Power blades are AP -2, power swords are -3 which they do NOT
have anymore
Arco-Flagellants
M7" WS3 S4 A2
7+5++
Zealot
Arco flails: +1S and D3 attacks instead of 1. So this means 2D3 for each
Arco at S5 - They could have just made the model S5 unless this is
future proofing for plastic Arco-Flagellants with other weapon options.
Penitent Engine: 6power for 1, 18 for 3
M7" WS3 S5 T6 W7 A4 Ld8 4+
Zealot
Desperate for Redemption: Roll a D6 after completing the first set of
attacks for units of Penitent Engines in each Fight phase. On a roll of
4+, the unit can immediately pile in and attack for a second time.
Penitent Buzz-Blades S2x Ap-3 Damage 3
First glance impressions: Pretty good from the look of things. Got to
love Desperate for Redemption. Does this prove GW reads dexes sent to
them? I read a wishlisting dex by MadCowCrazy and it had an ability with
the exact same name for the Penitent Engine and Sisters Repentia though
it basically forced them to deploy and scout move as close to the
opponent as possible during setup.
Adepta Sororitas section
Fluff notice: "So it was that the Sisters of Battle were recruited by
the millions, their orders rising from the flames of cataclysm (age of
apostasy) that saw the Imperium all but devour itself.
For those that don't know GW killed of 99.999999% of all sisters in an
earlier Sisters codex, stating that there were just the primary orders
and they contained some 10 000 sisters each and nothing else. So sisters
have gone from millions to less than 100,000 and now back to millions.
Technically it should be billions but GW and numbers....
Celestine: 8power +3 per geminae of 2 max
12" 2+2+3+3+7 6 9 2+ 4++
Bacon of Faith: +1 Shield of Faith Inv 6" bubble, Astra militarum and
ministorum gain 6+ inv save. Yeah yeah, it's Beacon of Faith but she is
just so delicious.
The Armour of Saint Katherine: 4++ for her and Geminae
Saintly Blessings: Unit within 6+ can perform an Act of Faith.
Healing Tears: Resurrect 1 geminae at start of each movement phase
Miraculous Intervention: Resurrection of Celestine once per game with
full wounds.
Canoness:4 points
6" 2+ 2+ 3 3 5 4 9 3+4++
Now has Rosarius as standard
Lead the Righteous mentioned above
Can't take jump pack
Imagifier: 2pts
6" 3+ 3+ 3 3 4 3 8 3+
AoF, SoF (Shield of Faith)
Simulacrum Imperialis: D6 start of turn on 4+ unit within 6" can perform
Act of Faith
First glance impressions: This is GWs "fix" to the problem of Acts of
Faith not scaling with larger armies. You basically need to spam these
models around and pray you roll a 4+. Doesn't this turn Sisters into a
gunline army instead of a mid/close shooty army?
Hospitaller: 2pts
6" 4+ 3+ 3 3 4 2 8 3+
Chirurgeons tools S user -1AP
Aof, SoF
Healer: End of movement. Adepta Sororitas Infantry unit within 3", roll
D6. On 4+ one model recovers D3 lost wounds (IG medipack recovers 1
wound), if no wounded 1 slain model can be returned to the unit with 1
wound. A unit can only be targeted once per turn.
Battle Sisters: 4pts per 5 up to 15
6" 4+ 3+ 3 3 1 1 7 3+
Same as before, so no benefit in taking more than 5 models because you
can only take 2 special or 1 special 1 heavy per unit instead of per 5
models.
Seraphim: 4pts per 5 up to 10
12" 3+ 3+ 3 3 1 1 7 3+
Same as before
Celestian: 5pts per 5 up to 10
6" 3+ 3+ 3 3 1 2 8 3+
2 special or 1 special 1 heavy per UNIT
Bodyguard: Character within 3" transfers a wound to unit on 2+, this
wound becomes a Mortal Wound
Mistress of Repentance: 2pts
6" 3+ 3+ 3 3 4 3 8 3+
Neural Whips S User, -2AP Damage1 Add 1 to the wound rolls for attacks
made with this weapon if the target unit's highest LD is less than 8
excluding vehicles. Does this mean the attack does +1Damage, +1 damage
dice or do you get +1 on to wound rolls?
Driven Onwards: re-roll advance, charge and hit rolls for friendly
Repentia within 6" of this model.
Repentia Squad:3 per 3 up to 9
6" 3+ 3+ 3 3 1 2 8 7+
Penitent Eviscerator SX2 -2AP Damage 2 -1 To Hit
So their Eviscerator is worse than a normal one with -4AP
Aof, SoF
Retributor Squad: 6pts +4 for 5more models
6" 4+ 3+ 3 3 1 1 7 3+
Same as before, max 4 heavy weapons per unit so no point taking more models.
Aof, SoF
Dominion: 5 + 4 for 5 more models
Same as above but 4 special weapons
AoF, SoF
Vanguard: After deployment, before first turn, move as in movement
phase. If all models inside transport has this rule then transport may
move instead.
Rhino and Immolator
T7 W10
Exorcist T8 W12
AOF is still somewhat frustrating - but it is synergy based fitting for this edition
Some good and bad - Hospitliar bringing models back is pretty awesome Crusaders with AOF
Celestins act as bodyguards with wound transference
Repentia get a crap Eviscerator :(
Penitent Egines are interesting
Icons:
Khorne - Reroll charge
Nurgle - -1 Ld enemies within 3"
Tzeentch - Mortal wound on a 6 against an enemy units within 12".
Berzerkers
M6" S5 A2 and can attack twice each combat.
Khorne axe S+1 Ap-1
Magnus
S8 T7 W18 4++
Sx2 Ap -4 3 damage in melee
3 powers
His smite does d6 or 2d6 mortal wounds
Reroll hit and invulnerable of 1 for Thousand sons within 9"
Typhus
S4 T5 W6 A4 2+ 4++ (halves advancing)
on a 5+ ignore wounds
Manreaper is S+3 Ap-3 3 damage,
Pistol is Pistol 2d6 S4 Ap-3.
+1 S and T for poxwalkers within 7"
has the same ability for death guard unit of the starter nurgle lord.
So. The Centurions' teeny tiny chest missiles hit as hard as the Obliterator Sawn-off Deffgun on its best roll. And they carry two more primary weapons on top of that, and match the Oblits' 3 wounds. Lovely. Totally unbiased and stuff.
lord_blackfang wrote: So. The Centurions' teeny tiny chest missiles hit as hard as the Obliterator Sawn-off Deffgun on its best roll. And they carry two more primary weapons on top of that, and match the Oblits' 3 wounds. Lovely. Totally unbiased and stuff.
Icons:
Khorne - Reroll charge
Nurgle - -1 Ld enemies within 3"
Tzeentch - Mortal wound on a 6 against an enemy units within 12".
Magnus
S8 T7 W18 4++
Sx2 Ap -4 3 damage in melee
3 powers
His smite does d6 or 2d6 mortal wounds
Reroll hit and invulnerable of 1 for Thousand sons within 9"
So, does that mean with <Tzeentch> Magnus has a 3++, or is he just a 4++?
Icons:
Khorne - Reroll charge
Nurgle - -1 Ld enemies within 3"
Tzeentch - Mortal wound on a 6 against an enemy units within 12".
Berzerkers
M6" S5 A2 and can attack twice each combat.
Khorne axe S+1 Ap-1
Magnus
S8 T7 W18 4++
Sx2 Ap -4 3 damage in melee
3 powers
His smite does d6 or 2d6 mortal wounds
Reroll hit and invulnerable of 1 for Thousand sons within 9"
Typhus
S4 T5 W6 A4 2+ 4++ (halves advancing)
on a 5+ ignore wounds
Manreaper is S+3 Ap-3 3 damage,
Pistol is Pistol 2d6 S4 Ap-3.
+1 S and T for poxwalkers within 7"
has the same ability for death guard unit of the starter nurgle lord.
All very nice. But seriously, no Slaanesh icon info?
>Carnifex
>67 points
>M7" WS4+ S6 T7 W8 A4 3+
>It doesn't degrade
>if charge does mortal wound on a 4+
>Crushing claws are Sx2 AP-3 damage 3
>Monstrous Scything Talons S: User AP-3 damage 3
>Bonemace S8 Ap-1 d3 damage.
>If with 2 weapons +1 attacks
>2 Scything talons reroll 1 to hit.
Haruspex
S7 (degrades) T8 W13
If it kills a model it can do an extra attack and heal 1 wound.
Every wound he takes does a mortal wound on the enemy on a 6 (I suppose it's acid blood)
If killed roll a dice, on a 6 it does 3 mortal wound on an enemy unit within 3"
Digging claws Sx2 AP-3 damage d6
Venomthrope
-1 to be hit for infantry.
Lictor
WS2+ S6 W4 A3 5+
+2 armour save in cover,
-1 to be hit
can infiltrate at 9" and can reroll charge the turn it shows up
Seen some more leaked Tau rules and I don't know about the Tau. I still have a bad feeling they're going to end up way too weak. To put this in perspective Primaris Marines have nearly as good shooting as us now. Especially if you take a leviathan which is downright better than anything we got AND they have the melee skills to back it up. I'm just not seeing how Tau are expected to win with no ranged firepower, no accuracy, terrible character buffs/ML "buffs", no tankiness, and no melee capabilities compared to other editions. Even the Riptide allegedly damages itself with a mortal wound now when activating it's nova charged reactor.
Need to see points costs for sure, but it's looking dire.
Edit
Found the source on the leak as if it was that hard. Apparently the person who told me missed something. It "may" cause a mortal wound when activating its nova reactor. Okay that's fair. He made it seem like it was guaranteed every use.
Canoness is Move 6" WS2+ BS2+ S3 T3 W5 A4 LD9 Save 3+4++
My fav so far - I like the idea she is rushing around - healing at the end of each move phase
Hospitaller: 2pts
Move 6" WS 4+ BS 3+ S3 T3 W4 A2 LD8 3+
Chirurgeons tools S user -1AP
Aof, SoF
Healer: End of movement. Adepta Sororitas Infantry unit within 3", roll D6. On 4+ one model recovers D3 lost wounds (IG medipack recovers 1 wound), if no wounded 1 slain model can be returned to the unit with 1
wound. A unit can only be targeted once per turn.
So the Tactical special weapon of choice will probably be the Meltagun, followed by the Plasma Gun, then the Grav Gun, then finally the Flamer. I am curious how their points will be laid out. I hope Grav Guns don't cost anywhere near what Melta or Plasma do.
The Grav Nerf at least helped me decide what Combi-Weapons my second Sternguard Squad will have. Plasma it is.
Well that makes more sense. With her two extra wound caddies still a thing she looks fairly solid. I mean she's effectively 11 wounds with them (and can res one of them every turn to gain 2 wounds back every turn as well) Nd yet can benefit from the character protect rule. With how T3 works vs S5 she should take less wounds too.
Hopefully her sword is awesome as well.
Still mulling over the rest of the army. I was one of those nutters who ran a little of everything in Rhinos so my old list would need some fixing to really be effective again.
Gamgee wrote: Seen some more leaked Tau rules and I don't know about the Tau. I still have a bad feeling they're going to end up way too weak. To put this in perspective Primaris Marines have nearly as good shooting as us now. Especially if you take a leviathan which is downright better than anything we got AND they have the melee skills to back it up. I'm just not seeing how Tau are expected to win with no ranged firepower, no accuracy, terrible character buffs/ML "buffs", no tankiness, and no melee capabilities compared to other editions. Even the Riptide allegedly damages itself with a mortal wound now when activating it's nova charged reactor.
Need to see points costs for sure, but it's looking dire.
Edit
Found the source on the leak as if it was that hard. Apparently the person who told me missed something. It "may" cause a mortal wound when activating its nova reactor. Okay that's fair. He made it seem like it was guaranteed every use.
I can't really take you seriously when you say "no ranged firepower".
Gamgee wrote: Seen some more leaked Tau rules and I don't know about the Tau. I still have a bad feeling they're going to end up way too weak. To put this in perspective Primaris Marines have nearly as good shooting as us now. Especially if you take a leviathan which is downright better than anything we got AND they have the melee skills to back it up. I'm just not seeing how Tau are expected to win with no ranged firepower, no accuracy, terrible character buffs/ML "buffs", no tankiness, and no melee capabilities compared to other editions. Even the Riptide allegedly damages itself with a mortal wound now when activating it's nova charged reactor.
Need to see points costs for sure, but it's looking dire.
Edit
Found the source on the leak as if it was that hard. Apparently the person who told me missed something. It "may" cause a mortal wound when activating its nova reactor. Okay that's fair. He made it seem like it was guaranteed every use.
I can't really take you seriously when you say "no ranged firepower".
Indeed we know the Stormsurge alone has what 12 weapons it can fire at multiple targets.
Gamgee wrote: Seen some more leaked Tau rules and I don't know about the Tau. I still have a bad feeling they're going to end up way too weak. To put this in perspective Primaris Marines have nearly as good shooting as us now. Especially if you take a leviathan which is downright better than anything we got AND they have the melee skills to back it up. I'm just not seeing how Tau are expected to win with no ranged firepower, no accuracy, terrible character buffs/ML "buffs", no tankiness, and no melee capabilities compared to other editions. Even the Riptide allegedly damages itself with a mortal wound now when activating it's nova charged reactor.
Need to see points costs for sure, but it's looking dire.
Edit
Found the source on the leak as if it was that hard. Apparently the person who told me missed something. It "may" cause a mortal wound when activating its nova reactor. Okay that's fair. He made it seem like it was guaranteed every use.
I can't really take you seriously when you say "no ranged firepower".
Put him on ignore, you'll be much better off when you do. Almost everything he posts here is nothing less than utter gak and baseless garbage pulled from thin air or meaningless speculation fabricated around the flimsiest of excuses.
Gamgee wrote: Seen some more leaked Tau rules and I don't know about the Tau. I still have a bad feeling they're going to end up way too weak. To put this in perspective Primaris Marines have nearly as good shooting as us now. Especially if you take a leviathan which is downright better than anything we got AND they have the melee skills to back it up. I'm just not seeing how Tau are expected to win with no ranged firepower, no accuracy, terrible character buffs/ML "buffs", no tankiness, and no melee capabilities compared to other editions. Even the Riptide allegedly damages itself with a mortal wound now when activating it's nova charged reactor.
Need to see points costs for sure, but it's looking dire.
Edit
Found the source on the leak as if it was that hard. Apparently the person who told me missed something. It "may" cause a mortal wound when activating its nova reactor. Okay that's fair. He made it seem like it was guaranteed every use.
Oh noes, a Riptide can't save if it makes a Nova fumble! So sad!
Anyways, you haven't seen a large quantity of this stuff actually described beyond you (as usual) misinterpreting things to declare the sky is falling.
Good to see that a rhino is now tougher than a dreadnought. These new leaks show that there is no unified formula for armor value to toughness conversion.
Kirasu wrote: Good to see that a rhino is now tougher than a dreadnought. These new leaks show that there is no unified formula for armor value to toughness conversion.
Where did rhino\s stats get leaked out?
edit:_ Volkite chargers got their character completely changed. Changes for sake of changes.
Good catch - lots of interesting stuff - free extra attack with combat knifeand chmapions blade - smae as Chainsword,
Sniper rifle can do extra Mortal wound....
Whirlwind (and likely other artillery) allows you to target non visible units.
Gamgee wrote: Seen some more leaked Tau rules and I don't know about the Tau. I still have a bad feeling they're going to end up way too weak. To put this in perspective Primaris Marines have nearly as good shooting as us now. Especially if you take a leviathan which is downright better than anything we got AND they have the melee skills to back it up. I'm just not seeing how Tau are expected to win with no ranged firepower, no accuracy, terrible character buffs/ML "buffs", no tankiness, and no melee capabilities compared to other editions. Even the Riptide allegedly damages itself with a mortal wound now when activating it's nova charged reactor.
Need to see points costs for sure, but it's looking dire.
Edit
Found the source on the leak as if it was that hard. Apparently the person who told me missed something. It "may" cause a mortal wound when activating its nova reactor. Okay that's fair. He made it seem like it was guaranteed every use.
Oh noes, a Riptide can't save if it makes a Nova fumble! So sad!
Anyways, you haven't seen a large quantity of this stuff actually described beyond you (as usual) misinterpreting things to declare the sky is falling.
I have no problems with it not saving a mortal wound. My issue is if it auto wounds itself when activating its nova reactor which would be insane since it's not that tanky compared to everything else anymore from what leaked rules I've seen. In the current edition it has to make a roll to see if it wounds itself, so auto wounding itself would be a huge nerf. So every wound is valuable and other units will be putting out more firepower and melee damage than it as well and then if you add in an auto wound to it it will die super fast and accomplish little for it's probably obscenely increased price (relative to everything in 8th).
However I'm a little skeptical about all these rules leaks. Shouldn't big things like the Riptide have it's wound chart leaked by now? Everything being posted online isn't having it's wound chart and effects listed which I find unusual. Makes it seem like some rando is just making crap up in general.
What a terrible rule. Especially without the advantage of seeing your opponent's set up.
Despite never losing in 7th in my 21 game career. I have had my nids friend seize initiative every single time except once. I know. Insane. I'll just assume I go second from now on.
Surprised to see Gamgee jumping the gun in order to claim the sky is falling.... yet again. Another threatened flounce on the cards? Perhaps we can get it up to 10 threatened flounces before 8th actually hits.
It's nice to see some point increases which to me says that balance is very much a driving force, (a cynic may say that a policy of point drops- to push sales has been [particularly prevalent in the past.)
Kirasu wrote: Good to see that a rhino is now tougher than a dreadnought. These new leaks show that there is no unified formula for armor value to toughness conversion.
Where did rhino\s stats get leaked out?
edit:_ Volkite chargers got their character completely changed. Changes for sake of changes.
What, outside of the Horus Heresy, actually has Volkite weapons for Marines at the moment?
Hollow wrote: Surprised to see Gamgee jumping the gun in order to claim the sky is falling.... yet again. Another threatened flounce on the cards? Perhaps we can get it up to 10 threatened flounces before 8th actually hits.
It's nice to see some point increases which to me says that balance is very much a driving force, (a cynic may say that a policy of point drops- to push sales has been [particularly prevalent in the past.)
To be fair, now that we know what Centurions do, we can deduce that Tau must be terrible in 8th.
Ugh. Noticed also that the volkite charger went to heavy...
What happened? How did short range mobile(assault over heavy of the longer range version) premium horde killing weapon turn into...short range tough to move and shoot low armour multiwound model killer?
Weird especially as there was nothing there that wouldn't have converted without problem into 8th ed so there was no real point changing style of weapon. That's like making lascannon into assault 6 S5 AP-0 dmg 1 weapon while assault cannon would be heavy 1 S10 AP-4 dmg2d6 pick highest. Sure they can be totally balanced but doesn't really suit weapons character.
Kirasu wrote: Good to see that a rhino is now tougher than a dreadnought. These new leaks show that there is no unified formula for armor value to toughness conversion.
Where did rhino\s stats get leaked out?
edit:_ Volkite chargers got their character completely changed. Changes for sake of changes.
What, outside of the Horus Heresy, actually has Volkite weapons for Marines at the moment?
Kirasu wrote: Good to see that a rhino is now tougher than a dreadnought. These new leaks show that there is no unified formula for armor value to toughness conversion.
Where did rhino\s stats get leaked out?
edit:_ Volkite chargers got their character completely changed. Changes for sake of changes.
What, outside of the Horus Heresy, actually has Volkite weapons for Marines at the moment?
Maybe the cataphractii or tartarus termies that also have 40k rules. But point is the weapon went into pretty much opposite of what it used to be without good reason.
Makes me even more happy HH took the smart route and went to modified 7th.
I don't know who they're kidding with costs not being rounded to the nearest 5. Lying to themselves that they playtested it well enough to know Sicarius is worth exactly 132 pts, when in reality they probably missed by 50?
I was looking at the picture of the new Dreadnought. I believe the strange.. almost Sentinel looking piece of armor in the front might actually be an extra armor upgrade panel. It looks to me like it's designed to fit "over" the torso of the dread and not actually like it's integrated. That and the way the sarcophagus continues beneath the plate really makes me think that what we're being shown isn't the baseline kit but a "full option" sort of thing.
Sorry if this has been already covered. Does anyone have any info on how they are handling Renegades and heretics list?
All it says on the forge world index is rules for heretic astartes and no mention of renegades.
Nothing in the GW chaos list either (apart from cultist obv)
Maybe they will just allow IG(sorry AM) stuff to be taken alongside chaos stuff with certain keyword.
Hope they keep them as a separate thing though. IA heretics were my favourite army (so much so that my entire IG/AM turned traitor and painted all their tanks red and bought some blasphemous icons
Generic CCWs are getting the +1 aatack option it seems to balance out the loss of the pistol+ccw bonus attack. So now you can take cheap quantity, or more expensive quality on your attacks.
Kinetochore wrote: Sorry if this has been already covered. Does anyone have any info on how they are handling Renegades and heretics list?
All it says on the forge world index is rules for heretic astartes and no mention of renegades.
Nothing in the GW chaos list either (apart from cultist obv)
Maybe they will just allow IG(sorry AM) stuff to be taken alongside chaos stuff with certain keyword.
Hope they keep them as a separate thing though. IA heretics were my favourite army (so much so that my entire IG/AM turned traitor and painted all their tanks red and bought some blasphemous icons
Datasheets for all of Forge World’s Warhammer 40,000 Astra Militarum range, including Death Korps of Krieg and Elysian models, and Renegade Imperial Guard forces as well as the immense war machines of the Titan Legions and Knight Houses.
Not happy with what it looks like they did to special issue ammo for sternguard. Rather then all the options it looks like they summed it up into a little extra range and -2 ap. Not that that’s shabby, but 3/4th of the time I was pumping the poisoned wound on a 2+ rounds into things.
On the flip side, stormbolters look to have gotten a nice boost.
Us Blood Angels are being crapped on again. Successors can no longer take characters as "counts as" because they have to change "Blood Angels" to "Order of Blood" (my custom chapter that I may or may not play in 8th) or something. And from what I've read people plan on enforcing this.
NivlacSupreme wrote: Us Blood Angels are being crapped on again. Successors can no longer take characters as "counts as" because they have to change "Blood Angels" to "Order of Blood" (my custom chapter that I may or may not play in 8th) or something. And from what I've read people plan on enforcing this.
??
If it follows the rules of a Blood Angel, quacks like a Blood Angel, and flys into a black rage like a Blood Angel, I don’t think most people will have an issue if you file the serial numbers off and call it what you like.
The only time I’ve actually seen an issue with counts-as for custom chapters is when people want to mix and match from various sources. Like having Calgar and Dante in the same army like there is nothing wrong. But if you follow all the rules from one source, you should be fine.
Your FLGS might be different, but this smacks of something that you hear about hypothetically on the internet, but in practice never shows up.
In further thought, it might be an issue for successor chapters that previously were compatible. For example, both Lysander and Kantor were Imp. Fists. and could be fielded in the same detachment without issues, as the CT was what mattered. It might be that now one will have the “Imperial Fist” chapter trait, and the other “Crimson Fist”. I’d not worry too much until we see the whole picture though.
NivlacSupreme wrote: Us Blood Angels are being crapped on again. Successors can no longer take characters as "counts as" because they have to change "Blood Angels" to "Order of Blood" (my custom chapter that I may or may not play in 8th) or something. And from what I've read people plan on enforcing this.
Just like every other space marine successors with named HQ from the 1st founding.
A chainsword is identical to a combat knife? That's disappointing. Anyone care to wager whether a primaris version will be better because reasons?
Wow yeah that sucks, they made it seem like a chainsword was now cool as it gave an extra attack. Now EVERY basic close combat weapon does that.
Yeah, you'd think the increased granularity would give plenty of wiggle room for chainswords between generic knives and power swords like d2 damage without stepping on either. I still expect a potential primaris chainsword to get the unique niche that the normal one is missing (similar to the bolter differences).
2D3 shots on the Predator AC? Nice. Not great for busting armour at -1, but the 3 Dmg standard is nice. Mind you, it's also pricey (= to twin-LC, yikes)
Well done GWiki-Leakers! You are not fake news. Well, some of you might be, but I'm strangely comfortable with the idea.
A chainsword is identical to a combat knife? That's disappointing. Anyone care to wager whether a primaris version will be better because reasons?
Wow yeah that sucks, they made it seem like a chainsword was now cool as it gave an extra attack. Now EVERY basic close combat weapon does that.
Yeah, you'd think the increased granularity would give plenty of wiggle room for chainswords between generic knives and power swords like d2 damage without stepping on either. I still expect a potential primaris chainsword to get the unique niche that the normal one is missing (similar to the bolter differences).
Primaris weapons are already on that list. Unless you mean in their codex.
A chainsword is identical to a combat knife? That's disappointing. Anyone care to wager whether a primaris version will be better because reasons?
It makes sense from a modelling standpoint, as they were identical ruleswise before so a lot of people used both equally
True but the increased weapon ability variety makes it feel like a missed opportunity. If the Adeptus Restartes don't suffer the same then it's just a crass sales gimmick instead.
The death company have Black Rage, but the terminator ancient doesn't. In fact, he doesn't have anything pointing to an kind of bespoke chapter tactic. So I guess chapter tactics and legion rules still being around was just a blatant lie on GW'S part then?
lord_blackfang wrote: I don't know who they're kidding with costs not being rounded to the nearest 5. Lying to themselves that they playtested it well enough to know Sicarius is worth exactly 132 pts, when in reality they probably missed by 50?
I think what you'll find is that, with the addition of equipment, they end up being round figures more often than not. So everything was costed with its standard load out to the nearest 5, then when they priced up everything for characters, they subtracted that from the units' points. It looks more exact than it actually is.
NivlacSupreme wrote: Us Blood Angels are being crapped on again. Successors can no longer take characters as "counts as" because they have to change "Blood Angels" to "Order of Blood" (my custom chapter that I may or may not play in 8th) or something. And from what I've read people plan on enforcing this.
Just like every other space marine successors with named HQ from the 1st founding.
As of now. But this really screws with the "all armies thing. You could legally use Pedro Kantor in an IF army. Same with Lysander and CF. They better include the option for generic chapter masters and chief librarians for us.
And it's fluffy for Astaroth! He roams between successors, going wherever the Black Rage goes.
A chainsword is identical to a combat knife? That's disappointing. Anyone care to wager whether a primaris version will be better because reasons?
It makes sense from a modelling standpoint, as they were identical ruleswise before so a lot of people used both equally
True but the increased weapon ability variety makes it feel like a missed opportunity. If the Adeptus Restartes don't suffer the same then it's just a crass sales gimmick instead.
Not just a sale gimmick they are soft killing old Marines by doing so. Not many people will play them in the long run if the Prmaris can do everything and better on both the tabletop and the fluff. Primaris will probably have -1 ap chainsword with extra attack.
I'm surprised we have no T'au / Eldar datasheet yet.
NivlacSupreme wrote: Us Blood Angels are being crapped on again. Successors can no longer take characters as "counts as" because they have to change "Blood Angels" to "Order of Blood" (my custom chapter that I may or may not play in 8th) or something. And from what I've read people plan on enforcing this.
Just like every other space marine successors with named HQ from the 1st founding.
As of now. But this really screws with the "all armies thing. You could legally use Pedro Kantor in an IF army. Same with Lysander and CF. They better include the option for generic chapter masters and chief librarians for us.
And it's fluffy for Astaroth! He roams between successors, going wherever the Black Rage goes.
AFAIK, Sucessors won't have special keywords; they'll have the same keywords of the parent chapter. Pedro Kantor will probably be like this: Imperium, Astartes, Imperial Fists, just like he has Chapter Tactics (Imperial Fists) today
ClockworkZion wrote: Generic CCWs are getting the +1 aatack option it seems to balance out the loss of the pistol+ccw bonus attack. So now you can take cheap quantity, or more expensive quality on your attacks.
No. Regular CCW do not get the +1 Attack. The combat blades listed here are the combat blades that Bolt Pistol/CCW Scouts get. Per the full rules leak, regular CCW don't add an attack.
Looking at the mountain of Tau leaks, am I wrong in thinking they seem even more one-dimensional than before? Special-rules-wise, I see very few odd, or disruptive tricks, and they seem very much to have been even more pigeon-holed into standing back in castles, and shooting... period.
As someone who has never played 40k and was hoping to get into it this edition, its looking really complicated for someone reason. So many tables.. Do i really need at least 2 books to play?
Chopxsticks wrote: As someone who has never played 40k and was hoping to get into it this edition, its looking really complicated for someone reason. So many tables.. Do i really need at least 2 books to play?
2 books is nothing compared to what it's like now.
Chopxsticks wrote: As someone who has never played 40k and was hoping to get into it this edition, its looking really complicated for someone reason. So many tables.. Do i really need at least 2 books to play?
The standard rules will be with no costs.
You only need a index book with the army.
You can neglect the Points in the tables totally and play with the powerpoints on the models charts.
NivlacSupreme wrote: Us Blood Angels are being crapped on again. Successors can no longer take characters as "counts as" because they have to change "Blood Angels" to "Order of Blood" (my custom chapter that I may or may not play in 8th) or something. And from what I've read people plan on enforcing this.
Just like every other space marine successors with named HQ from the 1st founding.
As of now. But this really screws with the "all armies thing. You could legally use Pedro Kantor in an IF army. Same with Lysander and CF. They better include the option for generic chapter masters and chief librarians for us.
And it's fluffy for Astaroth! He roams between successors, going wherever the Black Rage goes.
AFAIK, Sucessors won't have special keywords; they'll have the same keywords of the parent chapter. Pedro Kantor will probably be like this: Imperium, Astartes, Imperial Fists, just like he has Chapter Tactics (Imperial Fists) today
I guess that only the BA have to change their keyword.
A chainsword is identical to a combat knife? That's disappointing. Anyone care to wager whether a primaris version will be better because reasons?
Wow yeah that sucks, they made it seem like a chainsword was now cool as it gave an extra attack. Now EVERY basic close combat weapon does that.
Yeah, you'd think the increased granularity would give plenty of wiggle room for chainswords between generic knives and power swords like d2 damage without stepping on either. I still expect a potential primaris chainsword to get the unique niche that the normal one is missing (similar to the bolter differences).
Problem would be all the remodelling players would have to do. Maybe GW thought it's not worth it for the huge backlash. If they want weapon with d2 rather than use old one introduce new one. Avoids people getting pissed off when they have to rip of weapons of old models.
Does make me wonder if there's SOMETHING to mark them out. All deep strikes are now even more reliable than 7th ed drop pod so those bonuses got lost. But 103 pts is kinda lot to give deep strike to one squad. Though albeit objective contesting still works but even for that expensive.
Hmm. 10 Man Las/PlasTac Squad in a Rhino is about 250 pts
That actually seems pricey. Granted that squad isn't the ideal squad for a transport, but that's not really the point. Assault-y squads will be that much or more. Interesting.
AC/HB Predator has gone up a ton too, but that's the new Pred AC stats I guess. The LC/LC variant is over 200 pts. Oh my.
ClockworkZion wrote: Generic CCWs are getting the +1 aatack option it seems to balance out the loss of the pistol+ccw bonus attack. So now you can take cheap quantity, or more expensive quality on your attacks.
That's a bit of a leap you took there. My guess is the combat blade was treated the same as a chainsword otherwise it would shaft combat scouts royally.
Robin5t wrote: Almost everyone's getting leaks but us :(
Ninja clowns need love too!
Anyway, what's people's opinion on the Kroot? Are they any different compared to before in terms of viability?
As someone that cares a lot about the 'Nids it's a little surprising they've not leaked the whole Eldar lot, considering Tau and the base Marine/BA pages have gone out already
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: So termites are 2 wounds, 26 points and get 4 shots now!? Geez, gw heard my prayers and then some.
Considering it says with wargear and storm bolter+powerfist are priced at 22 points just by themselves, assume the price per model is just for the stat line. Which would put the terminators at 48 points each.
This has to be the first 40k edition with so big point increases in so many things. I like it. 40k was reaching a point where Space Marines were a horde army.
Plus: Ebay is gonna be flooded with Drop pods, rinos and razorbacks
So, if I am reading those charts correctly a Stormraven with Twin Linked Multi-melta, Twin Linked Assault cannon and Missiles and Hurricane Bolters is 172+54+35+4+4+24 = 293 pts?
That seems quite a jump up in points from 200.
And wow, can someone make sure the guys at battlescribe get a copy of the book. This method of figuring out points is going to be terrible.
Nevelon wrote: As long as everything is relative point-wise, I’d not worry. We might just be fielding the armies we do now, but playing 2,500 point games.
Or putting less on the table and keeping at 1,850 or 2k. Both are OK by me.
I can see the standard of play raising. People don't like to put less things that they want in their lists, so they'll play higger points games.
This is from a page or 2 back I just copy and paste.
Necrons:
Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
Living metal allows for automatically regaining lost wounds
Basic Gauss is 24" Rapid Fire **Ap-2**,
GaussCannon is Ap-3 Dmg Discipline 10
Warriors cost unchanged form 7th.
Monolith M6" W20 S8 T8 Save3+,
Gauss Flux Arc Heavy 3 S5 Ap-2,
Whip Heavy 6 S8 Ap-2
DmgD6. When it gets charged, roll on a D6 and if
4+ (or worse, depending on wounds lost)
charging unit gets D6 mortal wounds.
Nevelon wrote: As long as everything is relative point-wise, I’d not worry. We might just be fielding the armies we do now, but playing 2,500 point games.
Or putting less on the table and keeping at 1,850 or 2k. Both are OK by me.
I can see the standard of play raising. People don't like to put less things that they want in their lists, so they'll play higger points games.
I am guessing that 2K will be the bog standard (why 1750 or 1850 were ever the norm is beyond me). If 1500 can be played in 90 minutes, 2000 should take about two hours, which is fine by me.
Complete re-balance of the game means old worries and perspectives are irrelevant until we see them play out. Plus it looks like 2K is the new 1500pts of 7th so the price increases will be commiserate with increased game size.
Nevelon wrote: As long as everything is relative point-wise, I’d not worry. We might just be fielding the armies we do now, but playing 2,500 point games.
Or putting less on the table and keeping at 1,850 or 2k. Both are OK by me.
I can see the standard of play raising. People don't like to put less things that they want in their lists, so they'll play higger points games.
I am guessing that 2K will be the bog standard (why 1750 or 1850 were ever the norm is beyond me). If 1500 can be played in 90 minutes, 2000 should take about two hours, which is fine by me.
Yeah i know about this. Byt just wonder IF anyone have pix like in the marine book.
Nevelon wrote: As long as everything is relative point-wise, I’d not worry. We might just be fielding the armies we do now, but playing 2,500 point games.
Or putting less on the table and keeping at 1,850 or 2k. Both are OK by me.
Actually this would be good move on my books. Frankly what I would have done is like double the price of everything(including standard size) and tweak balance from there.
Why? More room to manouver. Especially at the lower end. When GW has years pushed point cosrs down it gets REAL crowded there. It's hard to make weak unit and tad weaker unit and have them balanced fairly when difference between 4 and 5 pts is lot bigger than 12 and 13.
So question for anyone who has figured the point system out yet. Is the wargear cost included in the basic profile and the point sheet for additions or changes or does everyone have to pay for everything listed or added? Seems like a lot of book keeping for the latter.
buddha wrote: Complete re-balance of the game means old worries and perspectives are irrelevant until we see them play out. Plus it looks like 2K is the new 1500pts of 7th so the price increases will be commiserate with increased game size.
Despite the price jump, terminators are actually looking to be in a good place. At 26 points, they are twice the cost of a basic grunt marine for the body but more than twice as durable. The main expense now is that power fist, but the power fist got a massive boon with the dumping of the initiative system. But even at 48 points for a basic one, that extra wound and a lot of structural rules changes have improved the terminator. And we can't forget that a lot of things that messed it up in the last edition have lost a lot of bite against it now. Grav lost a lot of bite by no longer wounding on 2+, plasma is riskier to get the multi-damage needed to kill them. In general that second wound and lack of insta-death alongside T4 no longer being at a bad breakpoint are a big improvement to them.
So they're pricey now (about as expensive as they were at the beginning of 3rd edition, when they had no invuln. in an AP2 world) but may have finally hit the point where they can actually dish out some damage as well as taking a lot more than they did before.
At the very least, a tactical terminator squad with an assault cannon is throwing out 22 shots at 12" off the teleport. That is a big improvement from their old 12-shot wet slap in the past editions. They can now drop in, tear a nearby unit up and still potentially charge off the drop (low chance, but may be worth tossing a CP at if you are close), and it doesn't even need to be the same unit anymore. That's a big performance boost and may be worth the 247-ish points for a squad of five with an assault cannon (that sword sergeant is a real point saver!)
buddha wrote: Complete re-balance of the game means old worries and perspectives are irrelevant until we see them play out. Plus it looks like 2K is the new 1500pts of 7th so the price increases will be commiserate with increased game size.
100% ^ This!
yea looks to me tournaments are gonna be 2000min more like 2500
esp the streamlined rules likely faster games...
that or an adjustment to more games in a day.
certainly thinking typical PUAP club game at our place will be at least 2k prob more
casvalremdeikun wrote: Man, if Dorn's Arrow is something like Rapid Fire 4, I will go nuts! Probably just a Storm Bolter that is MC and -1 AP.
The more of these leaks appear, the more I fear that the Relics and equivalent aren't making an appearance until the full Codex releases. We've seen the entire Tau Index section and zero Signature Systems in sight.
Wow did they do a number on them. This really is "Roll Lots of Dice" edition. Yikes...
Oh for pity's sake, Space Marines faction focus? If they hadn't put the name of the cover of the Xeno Index, I'd be wondering if they'd squatted Necrons entirely. I mean, great, Grav has been shown to basically be a better heavy bolter, but we already knew more about 
.
posts about "me next!"
