The Iron Empire concept art just continues to impress. Looks like we'll get a mix of active/passive poses for all these models, since the three renders above look more rooted in their poses than two of the running models shown in the latest update.
If I read the 6th update, it seems to boil down to this: we're being intentionally conservative with this KS, so as to be able to deliver what we promised to you in a timely manner.
I know I'm okay with that. I'm still owed items from Secret Weapon, Mantic, and Dreamforge. If I get less, but get it all in a timely manner, then I'd be pleased with that as well.
Valhallan42nd wrote: If I read the 6th update, it seems to boil down to this: we're being intentionally conservative with this KS, so as to be able to deliver what we promised to you in a timely manner.
I know I'm okay with that. I'm still owed items from Secret Weapon, Mantic, and Dreamforge. If I get less, but get it all in a timely manner, then I'd be pleased with that as well.
I agree. (So long as One Shot Blondie and some Jailbird snipers are part of the minis I get! )
Not a fan of those helmets for the Kurganova, too guardsy which admittedly is probably what they're going for. Still prefer the other helmet style on their heavy troopers like so.
Valhallan42nd wrote: If I read the 6th update, it seems to boil down to this: we're being intentionally conservative with this KS, so as to be able to deliver what we promised to you in a timely [and cost effective] manner.
Corrected. And there's nothing wrong with that approach either so long as it stays focused on covering costs and doesn't turn into maximizing profits.
The best part of the update is that they've got artists to work on new concepts. That can only mean that they will make sure that all already done concept will "unlock" before this is over. I just hope we will get more stuff revealed soon, so I can, once again, re-calculate exactly what stuff I want to get.
Aye, the concept artists at work was the best thing I've heard today, makes me hopeful that they might be considering additional stuff over the shadow bits.
Of course it might be all the question mark pics, but a man can dream.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Aye, the concept artists at work was the best thing I've heard today, makes me hopeful that they might be considering additional stuff over the shadow bits.
Of course it might be all the question mark pics, but a man can dream.
It makes me hopeful that they've got plans to unlock things at a slightly faster rate. I really, really want some of the stuff that's still locked up, and I'm starting to get a little concerned that I'll never see any of it.
I read it more as them having something else to show if there's still time after all of the already mentioned things are unlocked. Where as the question mark pics should already have full concept art as they would have planned to unlock them at some point.
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Jimsolo wrote: It makes me hopeful that they've got plans to unlock things at a slightly faster rate. I really, really want some of the stuff that's still locked up, and I'm starting to get a little concerned that I'll never see any of it.
I'm sure we'll see everything one way or another, as long as it's not in a 'Here's what you could have had' reveal of anything still unlocked at the end of the campaign.
grefven wrote: The best part of the update is that they've got artists to work on new concepts. That can only mean that they will make sure that all already done concept will "unlock" before this is over.
Actually that's what they hinted at from the start and that's why I couldn't follow the panic.
You don't really think that they invest all the time and money in creating 150 awesome miniatures and then won't release the last 2 of them.
Raging Heroes wrote:Ultimately, 80% of the sculpts will be done by the end of the Kickstarter, and the rest (mainly hero characters) will be done the following month.
I guess I will say it again, the kickstarter is still young, it has time to change and adapt and while only time will tell, I think they are more than willing to adapt, I am waiting for the next update with high hopes.
I think kickstarter has evolved at least in the miniatures genre to be a show, that's why mantic's kickstarters can be described as enjoyable, they provide a nice show with good orchestration, participation, hipe and communication, they have understood the value of streachgoal and update, swapping things to change the backers mood and still do what they want.
I also see that most successful kickstarters are focused, provide a box of stuff and build on that, this helps add a perceived value on pledging instead of waiting for the retail to go, this one is more can't say unfocused, spread maybe? I wonder how the tried and tested kickstarter recipy can be applied here.
The following is what I think are problems and how I think they could be fixed
First and foremost is participation and communication.
3 people team or not HR must find a way to be active on the kickstarter, beyond having an update ready in less than half an hour after a streachgoal has been locked in they need to find a time preferably overlapping Europe and US to actively participate in the conversation, heralds are nice, but, a backer will click Loudn' raging>full profile> comments or look for the blue posts, easier to find who is a herald and what they say, I am not downplaying the heralds job here, but many may miss they even exist, and brian blessed (raging lunatic) tag adds confusion, moreover as many times Ronnie has shown creator participation boosts confidence in the project and just increases pledges by been there and saying things.
Frontpage could be linked to the first but needs special mention, its too widespread and somebody needs to dig to find something.
Pledge levels should be up front easy to find a "sweet spot" advertised on top and a visual representation on what you are getting, this is were the flexibility of the project is a hindrance, the silhouetted figures are not appealing a collection of artwork might work better, but may be a bit misleading, not sure how to handle this, current streachgoal needs to be prominent past streachgoals need to go ASAP what has been unlocked needs a nice redesign to incorporate freebies, while I am at this the pledges need to include the freebies applied to the pledge too, Ash is been unlocked she must be on the pledges!
Streachgoals
Streachgoals need to make sense and look coherent, if a streachgoal raises more than one eyebrow one way or the other it is mispriced, likewise the fact that 3 different factions are represented, creates disinterest to some when their chosen faction(s) is not represented and while we have seen mantic do that with deadzone, most streachgoals were for all factions either adding to them or been mercenaries, I think RH could make streachgoals that give something to all factions, either unlocking 3 models one for each faction, or unlocking a model for a faction and unlocking something for the other two, for example "Irina Vega for Kurganova, alternative weapon for jailbirds and Iron empire support 1".
Perceived Price
Finally we reach to a bugbear for the majority of backers in a kickstarter the appeal is to get a sweat deal, a better deal than getting from retail, there are the idealists who will back a project because they want it to succeed, but that's the minority, the majority will be attracted because they want a good deal, how to do this in such a freeform project is a bit odd, adding stuff is the way of course, but how and were, adding an extra trooper to each squad works, but is not of any interest to backers only wanting heroes, adding an extra hero needs consideration, maybe for each 2 an extra? don't know, additional parts for heroes may work but will only attract people interested on these heroes. this needs a bit of brainstorming.
Finally comes the part on how to persuade people to pledge more, models alone may do it, but how do you persuade the backer to pledge extra from what they originally expected, I am thinking bundled deals but need some though.
Project Update #7: Major update: You can now SWAP between Troops, Support, and even Heroines Posted by Loud'n Raging
The Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter just got better!
As we mentioned in our previous update, we are working very hard at upgrading the campaign to match the outstanding yet (for us) unexpected level of popularity it has already enjoyed.
As some of you may remember, initially, we had come up with a very flexible pledge system based on a credit system, but Kickstarter asked us to modify it as they felt it was not compatible with their guidelines. So we had to scramble to create an alternative system, that, for various reasons, had to become more rigid.
But we are now in a position where we can introduce total flexibility!
From this moment and going forward, you can now swap between Troops and Supports as you wish within your pledge l evel.
For example, say you have 10 x $15 Troops (or $150 worth of Troops) + 8 x $15 Supports (or $120 worth of Supports), you now have $270 worth of a combination of Troops and Supports.
This means, for example, that
(10 x $15 Troops) + (8 x $15 Supports) =
18 x $15 Troops =
18 x $15 Supports =
10 x $15 Troops + 3 x $20 Troops + 2 x $15 Support + 1 x $30 Support.
Basically, any combination of Troops and/or Supports worth $270 will work.
But wait, that's not all.
We have also done something for the Heroines too.
Going forward, you will now be able to swap 3 Heroines for 2 Troops or or 2 Supports, or 1Troops+1Support, or vice-versa.
All in all, this means that you can now swap Heroines, Troops and Supports provided the same overall dollar value is maintained.
For example,
6 x $10 Heroines =
3 x $20 Troops =
3 x $20 Support =
3 x $10 Heroines + 1 x $15 Troops + 1 x $15 Sup port =
1 x $15 Heroines + 1 x $15 Troops + 1 x $30 Support...
Well, you get the drift.
As long as the maths work, you're good to mix and match as your convenience!
And here are more full-size images of the unlocked minis:
That's a pretty big deal! I think I might wind up with a few extra heroines I won't want, so it will be nice to switch 'em out for something else. Awesome!
Project Update #7: Major update: You can now SWAP between Troops, Support, and even Heroines Posted by Loud'n Raging
The Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter just got better!
As we mentioned in our previous update, we are working very hard at upgrading the campaign to match the outstanding yet (for us) unexpected level of popularity it has already enjoyed.
As some of you may remember, initially, we had come up with a very flexible pledge system based on a credit system, but Kickstarter asked us to modify it as they felt it was not compatible with their guidelines. So we had to scramble to create an alternative system, that, for various reasons, had to become more rigid.
But we are now in a position where we can introduce total flexibility!
From this moment and going forward, you can now swap between Troops and Supports as you wish within your pledge l evel.
<snip>
Hmmmmmm..... interesting.
So, the pledge level end up breaking down into pure cash equivalents plus X (where X is freebies, extra heroines, etc.)
Cadet Box= $80 in minis + TGG Digital Art book + Exclusive Miniature,
Lieutenant Box= $150 in minis + TGG Digital Art book + Exclusive Miniature + freebies,
Commander Box= $240 in minis + TGG Digital Art book + Exclusive Miniature +freebies +1 additional hero,
Nice update, but why is it so complicated? from what i read essentially you can convert anything to anything so why not simply say credit is converted as you like?
So, the pledge level end up breaking down into pure cash equivalents plus X (where X is freebies, extra heroines, etc.)
Cadet Box= $80 in minis + TGG Digital Art book + Exclusive Miniature,
Lieutenant Box= $150 in minis + TGG Digital Art book + Exclusive Miniature + freebies,
Commander Box= $240 in minis + TGG Digital Art book + Exclusive Miniature +freebies +1 additional hero,
And so on.
I actually just had an idea after reading that....
They should add something new and not seen by any KS I've watched.
Every 75k a Stretch adds a 1% discount that accumulates over time.
So if they are around 15% now, it would take another 1.5m to get up to 35% off retail, which technically shouldn't be unheard of when direct from the manufacturer and still nets them a massive amount of money.
TalonZahn wrote: They should add something new and not seen by any KS I've watched.
Every 75k a Stretch adds a 1% discount that accumulates over time.
So if they are around 15% now, it would take another 1.5m to get up to 35% off retail, which technically shouldn't be unheard of when direct from the manufacturer and still nets them a massive amount of money.
I am not sure if that is visible enough. The current discount is already overlooked by some. More freebies might be a better way.
PsychoticStorm wrote: warzone did it it was complex did maths look odd and did not attract so many people, it can also potentially lower the pledges.
Looking at their KS page, which I've never seen before, the confusion was probably not because of that, lol. That front page is a wreck and all their prices are all over.
@ Minx - I agree on the visibility part. However, their current freebies aren't that visible or good, considering most of them rely on people picking the mini that is actually affected by the freebie.
If it was something like, Next Unlock = Free Box at pledge levels A through D or 2 Free Boxes from levels E through H.... that would encourage people to raise pledges while increasing the overall discount.
TalonZahn wrote: @ Minx - I agree on the visibility part. However, their current freebies aren't that visible or good, considering most of them rely on people picking the mini that is actually affected by the freebie.
If it was something like, Next Unlock = Free Box at pledge levels A through D or 2 Free Boxes from levels E through H.... that would encourage people to raise pledges while increasing the overall discount.
I agree on the idea not necessarily the amount (free box).
PsychoticStorm wrote: warzone did it it was complex did maths look odd and did not attract so many people, it can also potentially lower the pledges.
Looking at their KS page, which I've never seen before, the confusion was probably not because of that, lol. That front page is a wreck and all their prices are all over.
@ Minx - I agree on the visibility part. However, their current freebies aren't that visible or good, considering most of them rely on people picking the mini that is actually affected by the freebie.
If it was something like, Next Unlock = Free Box at pledge levels A through D or 2 Free Boxes from levels E through H.... that would encourage people to raise pledges while increasing the overall discount.
If free boxes were the stretch goals, I might be persuaded to up my pledge, but that seems very predatory. If the goal was to reward people, that's fine, but if their goal with the free boxes was to get those already onboard to up their donation, that would seem a little on the shady side, and a little out of character for Raging Heroes.
I'm more enthused about supporting a Kickstarter that wants to attract new customers through quality merchandise and a good product than one that wants to hook people with shiny offers and then wring them out for every penny they're worth. The former is how good businesses are supposed to work. The latter is how crack dealers operate. I'm not saying I won't buy the crack, you understand, but I appreciate an ethical business model.
Jimsolo wrote: If free boxes were the stretch goals, I might be persuaded to up my pledge, but that seems very predatory. I'm more enthused about supporting a Kickstarter that wants to attract new customers through quality merchandise and a good product than one that wants to hook people with shiny offers and then wring them out for every penny they're worth. The former is how good businesses are supposed to work. The latter is how crack dealers operate. I'm not saying I won't buy the crack, you understand, but I appreciate an ethical business model.
Well, generally the idea is to give you some crack for free, only you don't know it's crack or that you're addicted.
Then sell you your next fix.
Good businesses and crack dealers are not mutually exclusive.
well they could do that, they could do a get a 3rd free, they could add on the already existing product as add ons, like weapon options like they do on heroes.
From left to right: DFG Eisenkern trooper, RH, DFG Ada, RH, Space Marine, RH, Cadian. The two sisters on the right are about 1mm-2mm taller than they should be, due to the metal tab extending a bit above the base. Keep in mind that the DFG bases are slightly shorter, and the ladies are wearing high heels, which should make them a bit taller.
Raging Heroes wrote:First of all, we needed to make sure we could make the necessary adjustments with our suppliers to be able to fulfill the pledges in the time frame we committed to if the KS continues on skyrocketing. We are currently finalizing work on this, and we are now reassured that this will not be a problem.
Second, it is obvious that if the TGG Kickstarter ends up going very high, we'll end up with no Stretch Goals to unlock and not enough to offer you. So we are now working very hard to take care of that, and our concept artist is currently drawing day and night non-stop in case of greater things happening.
Surely it would be better to get everything unlocked and have a big "Thanks for all your help!" post for the wait to the finish, than to risk not unlocking things for the sake of the game?
Kroothawk wrote: This chart just shows, that every kickstarter campaign gets most funds and new backers on the first and then the last few days ... and that this kickstarter is no exception. That's how kickstarter campaigns do in real life. Same with ebay auctions. Half the backers will see kickstarters on the "Soon ending" page, before they take action.
All Kickstarters have a drop-off, but some drop off faster than others. People perform the same sort of analysis of movie releases, and just as here a faster drop-off is indicative of problems, but the difference here is that it's not too late to fix the problems that are leading to lower pledges.
Jimsolo wrote: Within the bounds of the Kickstarter, though, do the people who want plastic so badly expect that this will result in backers getting more minis, or the minis for less money? I've asked before, and I still don't know: What is the perceived advantage, within the Kickstarter, of having the models made in plastic, as opposed to resin/metal?
Plastic is reliable, cheap and scales well for mass production. I will not pledge for a single Raging Heroes miniature if they don't, because I will not have an army in which to use them. I am not paying Goldsword prices for rank and file.
Mate, regardless of what you're buying in this genre, $3 per model is dirt cheap. The only exceptions are Historicals (different market), Mantic (uneven quality - and even then, often more expensive) and Reaper Bones. I guess you can also count plastics from GW starter boxes broken up on eBay, but that's not new retail product.
Instead of repeating the Goldsword mantra, please show me what else fits the bill of under $3 for R&F for 40k. I'm happy to be proved wrong here - I'm genuinely interested in seeing what else might be out there.
Curious question, is the conversation taking place here about typical for Kickstarter campaigns? I've never participated in one (either the campaign or any thread about one) and I'm honestly really puzzled by the intensity of the negativity. I expected a lot of speculation about the unrevealed minis, a lot of discussion about what people were going to do with their minis, and a lot of comparisons between peoples' orders. There seems to be quite a few people who are posting comments along the lines of 'the Kickstarter isn't going to do as well as you think, and X is the reason why,' or 'if such-and-such situation doesn't change, I'm going to withdraw my pledge,' or 'they are running the Kickstarter wrong, they should be doing it this way.' I'm not saying that these people aren't entitled to their opinions. (Hell, I even agree with some of them!) I just wasn't expecting the conversation to take this direction. Is it normal? Was I just overly optimistic? Or is this an uncharacteristically negative conversation for its type?
It seems to vary, often at random. You'll also notice a lot of the negative comments are coming from the same handful of people, and restate the same handful of points over and over again, never missing a chance to remind everyone how this latest development proves their pet theory about the nature of Kickstarter / RH's perceived arrogance / whatever right. Again, not that they're not entitled to be negative, but after a certain point, I do wonder why anyone wouldn't just simply abandon a KS they find so unsatisfactory, and move onto something they like more. Opinions have been expressed unambiguously, anyone you feel needs to be "warned" has been, your work here has been done.
Want my opinion? I'm sure you do.
If you're interested in discussing a new campaign, there's not much else to do regarding a campaign in the first few days besides speculate back and forth on it. In order for discussion to be interesting and meaningful, you need some points to be argued back and forth. Some people will naturally be critical, some will hate it, some will be angry, some will be happy, some elated. Some people will think the campaign managers can do nothing right, others will think they can do no wrong. Most will be somewhere in the middle. The resulting discussion is what we have here and in other open forums like this one.
I mean, it'd be a pretty boring discussion if everyone was disappearing up their own arses talking about how great in every way the (or any) campaign is, right?
And look at Buzzsaw's post - there's (as always) some great analysis in there.
@Ouze. I'm glad you started to see what I meant as you typed. My concern is that the gaming may well have backfired. I didn't follow this thread at all yesterday, and today I see that wait, we still haven't unlocked Bernadette, or even Katrina. While I'm sure that those ones will be unlocked, with the hefty stretches they changed to (even $10k per model is probably a bit high) they run the risk of people pulling out in the later stages. As I've said before and Buzzsaw also noted, a lot of people are already at their "pledge max", and there's not really a lot of reasons to add on more $15 heroes when you're only saving $3 per when it means going above your existing $250 or whatever pledge..
In fact, the "savings" on the $15 heroines ($3) when compared to the $10 heroines ($6.50) makes no sense at all. I'll get the KS-exclusive with my pledge, and I'm sure there'll be more than enough $10 heroines to fill my pledge. I can get the $15 ones later, at retail.
Azazelx wrote: Instead of repeating the Goldsword mantra, please show me what else fits the bill of under $3 for R&F for 40k. I'm happy to be proved wrong here - I'm genuinely interested in seeing what else might be out there.
I'm not suggesting that they should all be plastic. Even one sprue per faction would provide the option for bulk at an affordable price for the likes of the Imperial Guard, where you don't want to pay $3 after discounts for a 5 point model.
You're making the assumption that RH would be dropping the price if they got to injection-moulded plastics. We know that doesn't always happen, unfortunately. And when it does, it's sometimes not really significant.
Dreamforge's box of 20 injection-moulded multipart Eisenkarn troopers, bought at a discount from Wayland (plus postage) or if you can find them for 10% off at another UK retailer with free shipping (and if you do, please tell me) come to about $2.57 each for R&F ($2.86 without discount). Comparing it to $3/model doesn't make a huge difference to me if I like or even prefer the aesthetic of the $3 models. And if you've got a line on great prices for Eisenkarn, again, let me know!
Azazelx wrote: Instead of repeating the Goldsword mantra, please show me what else fits the bill of under $3 for R&F for 40k. I'm happy to be proved wrong here - I'm genuinely interested in seeing what else might be out there.
Interesting, but we can't buy from the UK anymore, let alone from UK free shipping discount vendors. Best I can find is from a bitz vendor in the US via ebay doing deboxed, etc at $15/5 ...or $3/model (plus postage).
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Inquisitor Wappellious wrote: Here is an example of the "five mini box", which is the sample principle behind the KS troop units.
This is how they will get the 5 unique poses per box, and the weapon options. All of the options I needed for my wyches were there, which was helpful. Some of the extra weapons went to converting other figures as well. I don't know what the formulation is, but I never have to wash the resin parts. In fact, you can even paint right onto them without primer!
James is clearly just dropping a advertising post in here every few days without reading the comments, or indeed, even all of the information in RH's Kickstarter. The Models in this KS are not RH's usual resin. Their resin models retail for slightly more than their Metals.
Could one of the Heralds please ask RH to make explicitly clear what the materials in this KS are? By all accounts, the materials on the table are metal and a form of restic, as seen used by Mantic, PP, Sedition Wars, etc. Metals for heroes and restic for the troops/support. Could you please get this confirmed or clarified, and then let James Wappell know the actual materials being used so he stops talking about RH's resin?
*All the resin talk would be fine if this was the regular RH thread, and it was advertising for their normal models from their website - though the resins are usually more limited than the metals.
Azazelx wrote: Instead of repeating the Goldsword mantra, please show me what else fits the bill of under $3 for R&F for 40k. I'm happy to be proved wrong here - I'm genuinely interested in seeing what else might be out there.
Eh, at this point, even I have to admit that these models are showing their age. And I have over 100+ of them. The sprues are poorly laid out and starting to slip (more mold lines to clean), the designs are closing in on 10+ years old (really, nothing fancy at all about the basic Cadian models, they really thrive off conversions), and honestly, the design aspect and inspiration of the models themselves are really.....lame (when compared to DKoK from Forge World, Valhallans or Steel Legion in their trench coats, or any other IG regiment that's not meant to be the poster child, blank canvas, ready for Joe Wargamer's take on their own version of any number of Imperial Guard regiments). I love the idea of the Imperial Guard, and GW's first plastic IG Catachan stuff was really cool for the time (what was it, early 2000's, maybe even late 1990's?), but I feel really disappointed when I can compare the quality of the new Dark Eldar sprues (which are amazing, really) to the (by comparison) ancient Cadian sprues, and then realize that GW's asking near the same price for models that are more than 10 years old without even a single sprue re-cut. In that vein, I'm more than happy to pay for some new vision for the grunt, front-line soldier (albeit female, but I'm not complaining) of the far future.
I'm still convinced that the idea of 40k as a game is being approached in the wrong scale (seriously, imagine a huge Apocalypse scale battle in 15mm, with 100+ infantry and a dozen or more tanks and war machines per side, while still maintaining some tactical flexibility in the rules besides "first turn wins". Really, I think GW missed their calling card with Epic and Warmaster, as both rules systems are head and shoulders above their parent systems).
I'm holding out for more Iron Empire and Jailbirds render previews, and look forward to seeing this campaign evolve. RH seems to be adapting quickly, and hopefully this project will be a success one month from now.
Azazelx wrote: Instead of repeating the Goldsword mantra, please show me what else fits the bill of under $3 for R&F for 40k. I'm happy to be proved wrong here - I'm genuinely interested in seeing what else might be out there.
Update 6 and they finally show a 3d sculpt of the basic troop types for one faction.
If the goal of this Kickstarter is to sell armies and not just heroines, shouldn't the basic troop types have been a day 1 priority?
Frontpage could be linked to the first but needs special mention, its too widespread and somebody needs to dig to find something.
Pledge levels should be up front easy to find a "sweet spot" advertised on top and a visual representation on what you are getting, this is were the flexibility of the project is a hindrance, the silhouetted figures are not appealing a collection of artwork might work better, but may be a bit misleading, not sure how to handle this, current streachgoal needs to be prominent past streachgoals need to go ASAP what has been unlocked needs a nice redesign to incorporate freebies, while I am at this the pledges need to include the freebies applied to the pledge too, Ash is been unlocked she must be on the pledges!
Streachgoals
Streachgoals need to make sense and look coherent, if a streachgoal raises more than one eyebrow one way or the other it is mispriced, likewise the fact that 3 different factions are represented, creates disinterest to some when their chosen faction(s) is not represented and while we have seen mantic do that with deadzone, most streachgoals were for all factions either adding to them or been mercenaries, I think RH could make streachgoals that give something to all factions, either unlocking 3 models one for each faction, or unlocking a model for a faction and unlocking something for the other two, for example "Irina Vega for Kurganova, alternative weapon for jailbirds and Iron empire support 1".
Perceived Price
Finally we reach to a bugbear for the majority of backers in a kickstarter the appeal is to get a sweat deal, a better deal than getting from retail, there are the idealists who will back a project because they want it to succeed, but that's the minority, the majority will be attracted because they want a good deal, how to do this in such a freeform project is a bit odd, adding stuff is the way of course, but how and were, adding an extra trooper to each squad works, but is not of any interest to backers only wanting heroes, adding an extra hero needs consideration, maybe for each 2 an extra? don't know, additional parts for heroes may work but will only attract people interested on these heroes. this needs a bit of brainstorming.
Finally comes the part on how to persuade people to pledge more, models alone may do it, but how do you persuade the backer to pledge extra from what they originally expected, I am thinking bundled deals but need some though.
Anyway these are my thoughts.
Excellent post with excellent points.
Something that might be done (if the renders are, as they say, done) would be to show the concept artwork for upcoming stretch goals, and then when the goals are achieved, also show the renders overlaid on the concept art. The point on multi-faction stretch goals is also an extremely solid one.
For perceived price/value, I guess they could go with something like "When we hit $400k, for every full $100 you've pledged, you get an additional $5 worth of models!" That could also have the knock-on effect of making people add onto their pledge totals so as to get to the next "level". Not sure if they can afford to do something like this or not, and the other question would be as to whether an extra 5% is enough to motivate people to increase their pledges. It would certainly make people close to it think about bumping their pledges to the next hundred though...
Azazelx wrote: Instead of repeating the Goldsword mantra, please show me what else fits the bill of under $3 for R&F for 40k. I'm happy to be proved wrong here - I'm genuinely interested in seeing what else might be out there.
Azazel asked about the price of rank and file for 40k, not the aesthetic direction. But if you want to move the goalposts, fine: the Dark Eldar infantry are the same price.
Azazelx wrote: Instead of repeating the Goldsword mantra, please show me what else fits the bill of under $3 for R&F for 40k. I'm happy to be proved wrong here - I'm genuinely interested in seeing what else might be out there.
I agree. And would take issue with the somewhat false point of Cadians @ 2$ per. The msrp on the 10 man box is what...33$? That's over 3 per model. For extremely dated sprues.
Its unfair to compare a discounted price verses a full retail price.
HisDivineShadow wrote: Its unfair to compare a discounted price verses a full retail price.
You are the one comparing discounts to full retail price, not me. The recommended retail price for the Cadian Shock Troops (or Dark Eldar Warriors) is 18 pounds for 10, or a bit under $28. The recommended retail price for the lowest Raging Heroes price band is $20 for 5.
Azazelx wrote: Instead of repeating the Goldsword mantra, please show me what else fits the bill of under $3 for R&F for 40k. I'm happy to be proved wrong here - I'm genuinely interested in seeing what else might be out there.
Azazel asked about the price of rank and file for 40k, not the aesthetic direction. But if you want to move the goalposts, fine: the Dark Eldar infantry are the same price.
That I did - it's what Alex was answering with that post. Though outside the UK at discount those are basically $3 each anyway..
HisDivineShadow wrote: Its unfair to compare a discounted price verses a full retail price.
You are the one comparing discounts to full retail price, not me. The recommended retail price for the Cadian Shock Troops (or Dark Eldar Warriors) is 18 pounds for 10, or a bit under $28. The recommended retail price for the lowest Raging Heroes price band is $20 for 5.
Actually, technically speaking I made no comparisons at all.
AlexHolker wrote: All Kickstarters have a drop-off, but some drop off faster than others.
Hardcore Raging Heroes fans knew well ahead what was coming. RH even made a massive "Like us on Facebook" campaign with rewards to make sure, every fan knows about this kickstarter within hours of the start. So more "early pledgers" were reached than usual, explaining the high start and then sharp drop-off quite logically. Still doesn't change the fact, that in almost all kickstarter campaigns, the bulk of pledges is made in the last few days, when normal people see this on the "soon ending" page or cautious people wait for the whole package before pledging.
Is it too late to suggest they relaunch as a three faction skirmish game, like Deadzone without the terrain? Then have pledge levels above for those who want armies.
I think comparing discounts is nitpicking on data, either go for MSRP or go for the same discounts.
In any case 3.6$ per model for a highly detailed resin cast is a nice price, compared to 2,9$ for GW cadians is not a huge difference and in my opinion compares different things, would I love to loose detail, poses, have undercuts for a mere 0.50$ savings, no I would not to be frank.
Again. Not resin (as we usually consider it). Restic. How well it holds the detail compared to metal etc is yet to be determined, as some are better at casting restic than others. Even so, at $3/figure in this KS, I think they're excellent value for the money.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Joyboozer wrote: Is it too late to suggest they relaunch as a three faction skirmish game, like Deadzone without the terrain? Then have pledge levels above for those who want armies.
There's at least 325,000 reasons not to relaunch the campaign. Not to mention the fact that they know where their figures are being used, and the writing, development, playtest and translation of a ruleset is a considerable and lengthy task, both in terms of time and of effort. Even if they hire proven people like Priestly and Calvatore to write the rules (which isn't a bad idea by any means) it's still a ton of time and money.
I am not sure if 5% is enough, a major obstacle I have encountered in kickstarters is manage to beat peoples waiting for the thing to go on retailers to get it discounted, yes kickstarter is about making the project happen, but many people think the project will happen regardless.
Joyboozer wrote: Is it too late to suggest they relaunch as a three faction skirmish game, like Deadzone without the terrain? Then have pledge levels above for those who want armies.
There's at least 325,000 reasons not to relaunch the campaign. Not to mention the fact that they know where their figures are being used, and the writing, development, playtest and translation of a ruleset is a considerable and lengthy task, both in terms of time and of effort. Even if they hire proven people like Priestly and Calvatore to write the rules (which isn't a bad idea by any means) it's still a ton of time and money.
Agreed!
No reason to do that now, but plenty of reasons to do some reconfiguring:
We've got an update that seems to indicate that they're aware of some of the fundamental issues here though, so there's every reason to believe that they'll do something to get this one moving along again.
Well, for the moment, things look to have stabilised at the $8k a day mark, which could be seen as both positive and negative.
On the positive side, $8k a day is nothing to be sniffed at and given the remaining time for the project and the expected upswing in the last 48 hours should give us something to keep talking about. Provided the SG distance stays at $10k after the mecha is unlocked then we should see roughly four unlocks every five days, though the exact periods between these will depend on how the pledging lands and the update schedule from RH.
However, the low daily gain means that the next few unlocks are going to take some time (about three full days funding) to reach before we hit the next freebie at $350k. I'm mentioning the freebie as we're likely not going to see what it is until we reach this point and it's going to add value to pledge levels, where as the $330k and $350k paid add-on unlocks don't directly add extra value they just make more options available to backers. Whilst three days doesn't seem like that long, when you're measuring the life of a project in days to begin with anything over 36 hours starts feeling like a long time and drags things out. This could lead to people loosing interest and reducing their pledge or deciding that they're not as willing to put down money at this time and dropping it entirely. Whilst I don't think we are likely to see any negative pledge days there is always that risk as we get closer to the middle of the KS life with so much still to unlock.
At present there are 41 options still locked but detailed in the original images, 12 Jailbirds, 14 Kurganova and 15 Iron Empire. Whist this includes the three SGs that we currently have on the table
two of those are Jailbirds and the closer one is Kurganova, there's no Iron Empire updates for at least $34k, assuming that they have an unlock after the Jailbird mecha at $360k. The individual unlocks don't seem to be taking into account the fact that there are three factions and people may want to focus on a single faction.
If we work on the basis that after $360k the SG interval will remain $10k then there is a significant risk that not everything will be unlocked by the time the KS ends, let along anything new that RH has their guys working on as a precaution against blowing through everything and having nothing left to push in the last few days.
$8k a day gives us roughly $216k extra as we head into the final 24 hours. Based on current funding of $326,294 that gives us a total of $542,294, enough to have unlocked up to the mecha at $360k and then a further 18 SGs (assuming the $10k interval remains). So that's 3 unlocks, including the mecha, and a further 18 out of the 41. This leaves us with 20 unlocks to handle in the last 24 hours. Whilst $200k is doable, it depends how much interest there is in last minute pledge adjustments and how many new people appear after tracking the project to that point, it could worry people who're still waiting for a particular heroine or support option that they were after as part of their pledge reward.
Taking the above numbers further though, if we also assume that the freebie interval remains at $50k then we'll have had three more (on top of the $350k one) and be very close to the $550k freebie. Assuming that the remaining freebies will be heroines (preferably full ones rather than tank stoppers) that's an extra $40 of figures added onto pledge rewards and would start pushing people up from the pledge levels that don't get the freebies to those that do. This is all wild speculation at the moment, based off what limited numbers we've seen and the hope that the first freebie hasn't set a trend and we're going to see tank stoppers for the other two factions at $350k and $400k before moving onto something else at $450k.
I'm sure the people at RH are looking at the situation as well, with a view to making further tweaks and improvements as we move towards the end of the first week. The increased flexibility they've provided may give us a bit of an upswing from those who were initially put off by the more rigid system that was initially provided for pledge rewards. Though part of me can't help feeling that there's still something missing or not quite right with the current situation, I'm just not sure what that is at the moment.
Even if this one ended at 'only' $500K, it would still be quite successful.
But you certainly point out what many have been saying all along - at this pace, everything will not be 'unlocked' until the end, if then.
As well as the problem that exists if you're only wanting to collect a single faction, and having the other stretch goals 'get in the way', so to speak.
Given the trend for the last day to equal or exceed the first day, I'd be very surprised if this one didn't finish in the $800K to $1M range, especially as we near the end and the perceived 'value' of a pledge will certainly be higher than it is now.
The point of course is, all of us in this thread strive to see the project go better than this.
What is probably missing is that the individual purchases have yet to achieve a "sweet deal" status, making them more attractive than simply waiting for discounted retail.
The question is how to achieve it in such a free-form format, the majority of wargaming projects have a box and add to that, this is too freeform and while on units you can add an extra trooper or two, or a weapon option, on heroes or support needs a more elegant solution, maybe adding weapon options? maybe something else, the crucial point is increasing the value without decreasing the cost, because that would have the reverse effect.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As an afterthought bundled deals could help in increasing the perceived value.
It's all an issue of expectations: is this a niche project, or a blockbuster?
Consider it like the box office of Star Trek: Into Darkness, where opening weekend it made $70 million, and this was considered disappointing. A disappointment because it failed to be as big a hit as the first Star Trek (reboot).
In my discursions in the previous days one will note my repeated mentions of the need for mega funding: but that need remains based in the $20-35k stretch goal unlocks and ~40 figures/units yet to reveal.
While we don't have no idea, we don't have the exact figure for what is the real minimum: the original SGs were $3-5k, which jibes with other campaigns that are doing metal figures puts them at.
Simply put, at $20k+ per SG, they need to make money by the barrel load every day to be a "success". At $3-5k they are already there.
It's fascinating really, the degree to which this project is either on easy street or in terrible trouble is entirely dependent on factors the creators control. Fascinating.
I think we'll see the last 24h exceed 200K. By a long shot. Since most EB "deals" were quickly snapped up, there was little reason for doubters to commit early, but I think there is still a lot of people out there that still want those minis. Game or not.
Who knows, snippets of rules might turn this around. It certainly got Deadzone people talking about it, at any rate.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I think we'll see the last 24h exceed 200K. By a long shot. Since most EB "deals" were quickly snapped up, there was little reason for doubters to commit early, but I think there is still a lot of people out there that still want those minis. Game or not.
Who knows, snippets of rules might turn this around. It certainly got Deadzone people talking about it, at any rate.
I actually don't think any amount of rules would help this at all.
It's been said before, but I'll say it again, and echo this opinion...Backers of this KS are after the minis, not really anything else. They can be used in a dozen different systems and they are extremely nice.
I don't want a game system. I want these hot minis to give me new toys and options in; 40k, Infinity, Deadzone, Warzone, Necromunda, Warmachine, and every other 28mm-32mm system out there.
Buzz, again, strikes a true chord. There's no reason for the massive increase in stretches. That's where they should look to draw in more pledges.
The only real benefit I can see from them putting out bits of their planned game system in this KS would be to maybe persuade some people to increase their pledge if they're wanting a force that's X size or adding bits to have to Y sized forces.
Personally, I would rather this stay as a figures only KS (with some changes to the SGs and general handling) than have them try and shoehorn the rules into it as well. They'd probably benefit more from their own KS, after the other two that are currently planned by RH. Then they can tie everything together and also use the funds to fill in any gaps in the figure lines to balance them all out.
Did I miss (did I mention it was busy at our store?) discussion on the Kurganova Schok Troops WIP renders?
I'm... somewhat unimpressed. They seem very chunky. Maybe it is the material and I should be glad they are being made at all, or maybe restic shrinks them a bit once it's cast, so they need bigger masters... again if it has been discussed, can someone just point me to the page number?
The kurganova troop sculpts don't look too chunky to me. They actually look the way chicks in body armor should look to me. but that's all subjective. For a troop set of 5 models estimated at $20 retail, I think these will be great.
PsychoticStorm wrote:What is probably missing is that the individual purchases have yet to achieve a "sweet deal" status, making them more attractive than simply waiting for discounted retail.
Sweeter than up to 40% discount plus free miniatures?
Keep in mind this kickstarter is for us to finance RH's project, not for them to finance us.
Buzzsaw wrote:In my discursions in the previous days one will note my repeated mentions of the need for mega funding: but that need remains based in the $20-35k stretch goal unlocks and ~40 figures/units yet to reveal.
1.) Your theory, that unlock level steps are always the same, is obviously false even for the first 5 days.
2.) We are currently at a 10k $ step, at least for the third time.
Yeah, I have to say, if you want the $10 heroines, they are a pretty good deal. Looking around the internet, finding retailers that even CARRY Raging Heroes is proving tough. The Warstore has them, but only a 10% markdown.
Getting those $10 heroines is actually a pretty darn good deal. The $15 heroines aren't well knocked down, nor the troops/support. So if you are looking strictly for bang-for-buck, stick to the $10 heroines for the bulk of the pledge.
The 40% discount is compared to RPP and it's on the $10 heroines. They are listed as having a future RRP of $16.50. On the KS, at $10, that is a 40% discount, so grabbing these as the bulk of a pledge, you'll end up with more for your money compared to waiting for retail
recruittons wrote: The 40% discount is compared to RPP and it's on the $10 heroines. They are listed as having a future RRP of $16.50. On the KS, at $10, that is a 40% discount, so grabbing these as the bulk of a pledge, you'll end up with more for your money compared to waiting for retail
Ahhh, I see. That particular deal is a good deal and no wonder people were clamoring for Heroine Only pledges.
As someone who wants dozens and dozens of troops and only a few Heroes, then the deal isn't that sweet.
recruittons wrote:Yeah, I have to say, if you want the $10 heroines, they are a pretty good deal. Looking around the internet, finding retailers that even CARRY Raging Heroes is proving tough. The Warstore has them, but only a 10% markdown.
Getting those $10 heroines is actually a pretty darn good deal. The $15 heroines aren't well knocked down, nor the troops/support. So if you are looking strictly for bang-for-buck, stick to the $10 heroines for the bulk of the pledge.
This is an excellent point, the discount numbers are so all over the place it's astounding. The $10 heroes are a great buy, most everything else...
Which glosses over something else: the MSRP for these is really high. And in many cases seems to have no internal logic: similar appearing figures fit into different price categories, different levels of discounts, yadda yadda.
This creates the problem that whatever the discount, the absolute price is quite high. Tre Manor is putting up $10 characters ($12 retail), but RH will have nothing at retail below $15? Uh, okay...
The discount must also be considered in light of the very long lead time. At up to a year, the simple fact is that from an actuarial standpoint, paying this far ahead is paying a premium. As they teach "Money today is worth more then money tomorrow"; when payment is so far ahead of delivery, a discount at a certain level only serves to normalize the price to retail. Presuming that these figures will be available at the usual suspects for a reasonable discount, all but the heavily discounted $10 heroes are, it can be considered, more expensive then they would be if bought in the usual course of business.
Given the extreme paucity of added value, it seems rather unclear why anyone would buy anything but the best deals.
Keep in mind this kickstarter is for us to finance RH's project, not for them to finance us.
Also keep in mind that this is essentially an interest-free loan. For a company that likely could not have secured anywhere near this kind of numbers in a traditional loan. Which is a very big deal.
Kroothawk, I am impressed with your stance on this.
10$ hero models are 40%
15$ hero models are 17%
20$ hero models are 20%
15$ troops are 25% for jailbirds 17% for the others
20$ troops are 20% for the Lulus 16% for the others
15$ artillery are 30%
15$ bikes are 25%
30$ mecha are 17%
40% off is only if you select heavily on a single category other discounts are less, but my point is:
On the majority of the cases the retailer discount will be better or the same and heroes can be purchased by a backer so many times before they are left with nothing to buy, there needs to be an incentive for many backers to feel they need to pledge and pledge heavily in order to get a better deal than just wait, no don't say me if the project fails we will not have them ectr, I know it the bulk of backers for a project either does not realize it or do not care, they do care on getting a great deal.
For me the price does not need lowering it would be bad in my opinion, what you get for the price needs fixing.
@Buzzsaw: that is why I'm piggy-backing on someone else's pledge and just sticking to getting the 4-5 $10 heroines that I really want. It feels like it's the best possible way to get exactly what I want and not feel like I could regret what paid into the KS later (this is not a criticism of those who go big, but a statement of how much of a cheapskate I am ).
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Did I miss (did I mention it was busy at our store?) discussion on the Kurganova Schok Troops WIP renders?
I'm... somewhat unimpressed. They seem very chunky. Maybe it is the material and I should be glad they are being made at all, or maybe restic shrinks them a bit once it's cast, so they need bigger masters... again if it has been discussed, can someone just point me to the page number?
You missed the part where experts pointed to all the mind-blowing details on the not-Cadians that make them worth every penny and simply impossible to replicate in plastic.
Honestly, I was not impressed either, especially after all the comments about how this wasn't about rank and file, but the most amazing Show miniatures to hit the earth since God sculpted Adam. It kind of reminds me of the Studio McVey/Sedition Wars hype. Those were also released in restic; how did that turn out, again?
I think people really need to consider the medium here. If I were going heavy in this kickstarter, I'd probably only go for metal models since I know the quality those can achieve.
PsychoticStorm wrote:What is probably missing is that the individual purchases have yet to achieve a "sweet deal" status, making them more attractive than simply waiting for discounted retail.
Sweeter than up to 40% discount plus free miniatures?
Keep in mind this kickstarter is for us to finance RH's project, not for them to finance us.
Buzzsaw wrote:In my discursions in the previous days one will note my repeated mentions of the need for mega funding: but that need remains based in the $20-35k stretch goal unlocks and ~40 figures/units yet to reveal.
1.) Your theory, that unlock level steps are always the same, is obviously false even for the first 5 days.
2.) We are currently at a 10k $ step, at least for the third time.
It's not all 40%. It's disingenuous to suggest it is. Let's look at it assuming everything gets unlocked.
25 Heros at 39.4%
2 Heroes at 20%
11 Heroes at 16.7%
9 Support at 25%
3 Support at 14.3%
12 Support at 30.3%
4 Troops at 14.9%
4 Troops at 16.7%
2 Troops at 25%
1 Troop at 20%
By choice that's a 27.5% discount. With the vast majority of the heavy discount being on the hero choices and not the bulk units needed to build an army. Meaning the discount actually gets lower than 27.5% if your building an army since the average troop choice discount is 17.9%.
It's been said before but the purpose for many backers is to get something in return. I'm not going to apologize for wanting to get value for pre-ordering over a year in advance in a format that is so limited on ways to protect the money I put in. Currently the only value I see is in characters, and only the $10 ones at that.
1. He never said they are the same. Hell, the quote you quote shows a range. Take a breath.
Long story short they need to increase the value to bring more people in because unless they go to all 10k SG's everything isn't going to unlock.
People relatively frugal with their money will just wait for retail. What are the odds of the Warstore or something similar not carrying the product on launch? So by waiting I not only don't put my money at risk for a troop heavy army but also actually get a larger discount and much cheaper shipping.
10$ hero models are 40%
15$ hero models are 17%
20$ hero models are 20%
15$ troops are 25% for jailbirds 17% for the others
20$ troops are 20% for the Lulus 16% for the others
15$ artillery are 30%
15$ bikes are 25%
30$ mecha are 17%
40% off is only if you select heavily on a single category other discounts are less, but my point is:
On the majority of the cases the retailer discount will be better or the same and heroes can be purchased by a backer so many times before they are left with nothing to buy, there needs to be an incentive for many backers to feel they need to pledge and pledge heavily in order to get a better deal than just wait, no don't say me if the project fails we will not have them ectr, I know it the bulk of backers for a project either does not realize it or do not care, they do care on getting a great deal.
For me the price does not need lowering it would be bad in my opinion, what you get for the price needs fixing.
And on top of all that, as already noted, the ship date for these miniatures currently is March 2014.
PsychoticStorm wrote:Kroothawk, I am impressed with your stance on this.
10$ hero models are 40%
15$ hero models are 17%
20$ hero models are 20%
15$ troops are 25% for jailbirds 17% for the others
20$ troops are 20% for the Lulus 16% for the others
15$ artillery are 30%
15$ bikes are 25%
30$ mecha are 17%
40% off is only if you select heavily on a single category other discounts are less, but my point is:
On the majority of the cases the retailer discount will be better or the same and heroes can be purchased by a backer so many times before they are left with nothing to buy, there needs to be an incentive for many backers to feel they need to pledge and pledge heavily in order to get a better deal than just wait, no don't say me if the project fails we will not have them ectr, I know it the bulk of backers for a project either does not realize it or do not care, they do care on getting a great deal.
For me the price does not need lowering it would be bad in my opinion, what you get for the price needs fixing.
An excellent evaluation, thank you for this.
recruittons wrote:@Buzzsaw: that is why I'm piggy-backing on someone else's pledge and just sticking to getting the 4-5 $10 heroines that I really want. It feels like it's the best possible way to get exactly what I want and not feel like I could regret what paid into the KS later (this is not a criticism of those who go big, but a statement of how much of a cheapskate I am ).
Hah! After Deadzone, with Red Box, Warriors of Darkmyre and Cthulu Wars all ending soon, I too feel the need for a bit of sugar to part with my filthy lucre.
@Buzzsaw: Oh don't get me started on Cthulhu Wars! I've been tracking CW and RH to mentally compare how a big board game project with a similar start (however with little lead-up marketing) compares to a big minis only project. It's actually really interesting.
Personally, I'd love it if your post-mortum of RH (I believe you mentioned doing this, correct?) would compare it to CW because they will end simultaneously. You could compare creator comments, daily growth, update quantity, pre-project preparedness, etc.
Hulksmash wrote:Well Psycotic Storm beat me to it but I'm not taking mine down!
Heh, they both add some extra to the conversation.
recruittons wrote:@Buzzsaw: Oh don't get me started on Cthulhu Wars! I've been tracking CW and RH to mentally compare how a big board game project with a similar start (however with little lead-up marketing) compares to a big minis only project. It's actually really interesting.
Personally, I'd love it if your post-mortum of RH (I believe you mentioned doing this, correct?) would compare it to CW because they will end simultaneously. You could compare creator comments, daily growth, update quantity, pre-project preparedness, etc.
Oh, to be sure. It's intriguing how both of them launched so close with such explosive growth. It will be fascinating to watch them both progress and ultimately end within a day of each other!
Which glosses over something else: the MSRP for these is really high. And in many cases seems to have no internal logic: similar appearing figures fit into different price categories, different levels of discounts, yadda yadda.
Actually, that's quite a good point that hadn't stuck out at me earlier. Though it's not out of keeping with the prices on their webstore, either. (The KS MSRP prices are slightly higher.) Firestorm games in the UK also carries RH, though it seems not with any discount.
Keep in mind this kickstarter is for us to finance RH's project, not for them to finance us.
Also keep in mind that this is essentially an interest-free loan. For a company that likely could not have secured anywhere near this kind of numbers in a traditional loan. Which is a very big deal.
~Eric
Unfortunately, Kroot seems to have lost the sense of perspective that he usually has and is going Full-steam Raging (Heroes) Fan for some reason here. While I usually respect his posts, his bias is showing much too clearly here, and it's best to take most of what he says with a tablespoon of salt and ignore the posts where he goes off the deep end completely. Just the same as a few people tend to do in the Mantic threads.
On the majority of the cases the retailer discount will be better or the same and heroes can be purchased by a backer so many times before they are left with nothing to buy, there needs to be an incentive for many backers to feel they need to pledge and pledge heavily in order to get a better deal than just wait, no don't say me if the project fails we will not have them ectr, I know it the bulk of backers for a project either does not realize it or do not care, they do care on getting a great deal.
Do you know of any online UK retailers that actually stock RH with a discount?
I think that the almost 1 year wait time is quite an important factor here. If I put those money into a stock market for this year and buy the items when they hit retail, one might actually make a better deal than "pre-ordering" them in this KS with a (potential) risk of not actually getting any items at all. Mmm...
grefven wrote: I think that the almost 1 year wait time is quite an important factor here. If I put those money into a stock market for this year and buy the items when they hit retail, one might actually make a better deal than "pre-ordering" them in this KS with a (potential) risk of not actually getting any items at all. Mmm...
This is exactly what I mean "money today is worth more then money tomorrow"; consider that the S&P closed on June 5, 2013 at 1,631.38. A year ago it was 1,278.18 (+353: ~28% ). Dow Jones went from 12,101.46 to 15,177.54 (+3076: ~25%) in the same time span. An investment in index shares in either of them would have had a return of roughly 25%.*
Rather close, it would seem, to the overall discount as calculated by Hulksmash above (27.5%).
In a very real sense, once the opportunity cost of paying so far in advance is taken into account, if one were to buy an even distribution of items there is practically no discount at all.
*Of course, past performance is no guarantee of future returns. An argument that would seem to cut both ways with regards to a kickstarter campaign, heh.
As of right now, since the pledges have been 'freed up', it makes sense to concentrate on the 'best deals', if they happen to also fit in your chosen faction.
Given the somewhat chunky nature of the initial Kurganovas (WIPs only, of course!), I'm now not sure on which faction I really want.
I could pick and choose with Kurgas and Jailbirds, but the Iron Empire isn't really appealing to me.
Still, a long way to go and I'm really looking forward to more Mech reveals, and the bikes... and the snipers... and...!
I am interested in parts of all factions, so many interest me.
The Kurganova troops seem off because on the render the torso is only 2 heads but I feel its perspective issue, I do not think they would release a 1/2/3 proportioned model.
Seriously, guys, let's all take a deep breath and calm down for a second. There's no reason for any of us to be attacking anyone else. Everyone's in this thread for the same reason; we all want the Kickstarter to go well. I'm sure that no one on Dakka would be so crass as to troll a thread like this deliberately trying to get backers to abandon the campaign. While we may dislike some of the business practices (I don't, but what do I know?) or some of the Kickstarter related decisions, or even some of the minis, (heck, I'm pretty much ignoring one entire faction!) we're all here because we want this company to do well.
There's no reason for us to turn on one another. (There'll be plenty of time to resort to cannibalism later.) It's obvious that some people are very critical, in the name of providing assistance by pointing out weak points in the business plan here. Others feel that this criticism in so public a forum is actually detrimental to the cause rather than helpful, and should thus be fact-checked, argued against, and otherwise scrutinized. Both sides are working towards the same goal, though.
I don't think this is a situation where either side is going to prevail over the other, so we should all keep in mind that arguments only serve a purpose when they are capable of exerting influence. If you aren't willing to let your opponent change your mind, then there's no point in even reading what they have to say, much less responding to it. If you've already made your point, then anyone who would have listened to you will have already done so, and arguing about it only serves to diminish your own credibility.
TL;DR - Let's all try to be a little more civil to one another. We're all friends here.
Well pending on some shifts at work I had to pull my pledge, ended up buying a new rifle to kit build over the summer to get psyched up for gunsmithing school, but a couple extra shifts and I can probably get back in.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Well pending on some shifts at work I had to pull my pledge, ended up buying a new rifle to kit build over the summer to get psyched up for gunsmithing school, but a couple extra shifts and I can probably get back in.
10$ hero models are 40%
15$ hero models are 17%
20$ hero models are 20%
15$ troops are 25% for jailbirds 17% for the others
20$ troops are 20% for the Lulus 16% for the others
15$ artillery are 30%
15$ bikes are 25%
30$ mecha are 17%
40% off is only if you select heavily on a single category other discounts are less, but my point is:
On the majority of the cases the retailer discount will be better or the same (snip)
Is that a fact? If I recall, they make other stuff that's on the market right now, right? Those disco pose commisars, the 2 naked elf princesses, the DE lady, that demon baby, the topless dark elves... right?
Are there retailers right now selling those things for a minimum of 17% off, an average of (and yes I added those all together up there) 22.7% off, and in some cases in excess of 30 to 40% off? LIke, can you put in an order right now on some site? Honest question, I don't know the answer, but I think this hypothesis can be answered today, instead of waiting a year.
Alpharius wrote: Still, a long way to go and I'm really looking forward to more Mech reveals, and the bikes... and the snipers... and...!
I'm a real sucker for both so I know what you mean, and I've always liked the penitent engine so anything that has echoes of it is intriguing to me.
The same with snipers despite the fact the only game I could fit these into is 40k, and I already have wayyy more snipers then I can use. Of course, these seem to be a lot nicer looking.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Well pending on some shifts at work I had to pull my pledge, ended up buying a new rifle to kit build over the summer to get psyched up for gunsmithing school, but a couple extra shifts and I can probably get back in.
Ouze wrote: Is that a fact? If I recall, they make other stuff that's on the market right now, right? Those disco pose commisars, the 2 naked elf princesses, the DE lady, that demon baby, the topless dark elves... right?
Are there retailers right now selling those things for a minimum of 17% off, an average of (and yes I added those all together up there) 22.7% off, and in some cases in excess of 30 to 40% off? LIke, can you put in an order right now on some site? Honest question, I don't know the answer, but I think this hypothesis can be answered today, instead of waiting a year.
As a matter of fact, and in response to Kroot also, you can search Raging Heroes own website for a list of retailers.
A simple Google search on those shops showed I can get pretty much anything that Raging Heroes makes, right now, for 20% off.
10$ hero models are 40%
15$ hero models are 17%
20$ hero models are 20%
15$ troops are 25% for jailbirds 17% for the others
20$ troops are 20% for the Lulus 16% for the others
15$ artillery are 30%
15$ bikes are 25%
30$ mecha are 17%
40% off is only if you select heavily on a single category other discounts are less, but my point is:
On the majority of the cases the retailer discount will be better or the same (snip)
Is that a fact? If I recall, they make other stuff that's on the market right now, right? Those disco pose commisars, the 2 naked elf princesses, the DE lady, that demon baby, the topless dark elves... right?
Are there retailers right now selling those things for a minimum of 17% off, and in some cases in excess of 30 to 40% off? LIke, can you put in an order right now on some site? Honest question, I don't know the answer, but I think this hypothesis can be answered today, instead of waiting a year.
This seems an odd question to ask. Right now RH is barely a presence on the scene, one can only presume that they will be much more after this... it is in fact one of the consistent goals put forward by the heralds.
Assuming that these lines are eventually stocked by retailers such as the Warstore, do you have a reason to believe they will not be subject to the regular discount?
This is not to say we ought not take a gamble on the deeper discounts, but, again, as I pointed out above, anything less then a 25% discount at this great length of time is, in a sense, not discounted at all. Heh, in fact, the items that have the least discount, the 17% discounts, would be more profitably bought when they come to market (assuming they keep to their deadlines) at full retail.
Something to consider: the longer the date of delivery from the payment, the less the discount. Until, at a certain point for each discount, you actually are paying more then retail.
Not everything and not from everywhere though, both battlefield Berlin and firestorm for example sell at the RH RRP and CMON sells at more than RRP, but there are other stores, that been said and that is important, the average "I don't know them, looks cool" backer will take for granted the usual 20% off RRP that is so common nowadays.
10$ hero models are 40%
15$ hero models are 17%
20$ hero models are 20%
15$ troops are 25% for jailbirds 17% for the others
20$ troops are 20% for the Lulus 16% for the others
15$ artillery are 30%
15$ bikes are 25%
30$ mecha are 17%
40% off is only if you select heavily on a single category other discounts are less, but my point is:
On the majority of the cases the retailer discount will be better or the same (snip)
Is that a fact? If I recall, they make other stuff that's on the market right now, right? Those disco pose commisars, the 2 naked elf princesses, the DE lady, that demon baby, the topless dark elves... right?
Are there retailers right now selling those things for a minimum of 17% off, an average of (and yes I added those all together up there) 22.7% off, and in some cases in excess of 30 to 40% off? LIke, can you put in an order right now on some site? Honest question, I don't know the answer, but I think this hypothesis can be answered today, instead of waiting a year.
Fantization Miniatures carries Raging Heroes and offer discounts up to 20% if you hit a certain purchase level ($250+) and periodically run sales with flat discounts (Memorial Day was the most recent).
They have carried the product line for months, yet their site still says everything is on pre-order. I have contacted them to get clarification on whether or not they have anything in stock and will update this post when I receive an answer.
The point is, people can find them at discount, so something must be done to make them look better, I am against lowering the price, it could have a negative effect, so something else could be used, extra models, extra parts, BOGOF, something else?
The freebies could work, but they need to be showing more of it.. also as I noted in the comments, more kickstarter exclusives, even if they go down the 'movie/book' inspired characters route, so not ones they need to worry over the fact they won't be doing any more of after it is all produced/shipped.
Can't wait to put them in with my Cadians... that's the only downside with this project. I've downed all my tools regarding Imperial Guard for the rest of the year, because I don't want to half paint, move around troopers into other squads when they turn up.
Good job I've got plenty of other things to keep me busy.
my normal discount retailer is The War Store, who don't carry RH...
i just ordered Skaarlys (or Snarls, as she's called in my house since my girlfriend read the name wrong) from CMON...
she was $19.99, metal, and totally worth it...
the detail is incredible, and painted up as a Lady Malys stand-in she should sell...
makes the Kickstarter prices seem pretty good, though...
Saxon wrote: Total Wargamer is the only shop (I can find) in the UK who offer 20% discount.
Given past comments on (and personal experience with) Total Wargamer the 20% discount may be tempting but something ordered now might not turn up until the KS stuff ships direct anyway. They've had serious issues filling even basic orders this year, so not really an option unless they improve stock levels / set customer expectations appropriately.
Back to the actual topic at hand though, maybe now that we've had the $330k SG unlocked we can see what's coming after the mecha and whether or not we're set for a range of $10k spread SGs or if the mecha was a one off.
Couldn't find how to navigate there on the website, but I googled raging heroes warstore and they have a section for them! More than half the stuff is sold out though
Couldn't find how to navigate there on the website, but I googled raging heroes warstore and they have a section for them! More than half the stuff is sold out though
RH is only listed under "Fantasy Miniatures" despite having all the Sci-Fi ones there as well. Not sure why that is, but that's why it looks like the WarStore doesn't carry them.
I look forward to Neal getting some in stock after the KS and snagging some characters.
Here are some images of that Skyraa figure painted. She comes with many different arm options, all of which are very good. The left over pieces were actually used to convert some of my Dark Eldar Kabal warriors!
I definitely want to put around $40 into this kickstarter (Must. Resist. Urge. To. Go. Higher.), but I'd like to see some 3D renders of everything first.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Remember when talking about discounts you also have to factor in the free stuff you get with some pledge levels (KS exclusives & extra heroines
if somebody wants to factor these numbers into the discounts above
Factor in what? Where's the "extra $105" coming from at General? The little box shows you exactly what you get.
So let's go to the $995 deal, you get; $200 + $390 +$390 +3 Free Troops ($25 each is the most expensive) + 3 Free Support ($35 is the most expensive) + Free Rocketeer ($18) = $1178 Retail. So 995/1178 = 84.4 which translates into a whole 15.6% off retail. Keep in mind, it only gets worse from there. If I don't pick 3 sets of Lulu's (whatever they turn out to be) or 3 Mechs for Support, my discount goes down.
As for "Freebies"... so far we have a few bits for minis you might not even buy/take/pick/purchase, the top half of a mini (which again might not even be of use unless you pick that faction), and a Digital Book (woo hoo).
Hell, I'll throw in the $105 just for giggles and that finally takes the discount up to 22.5%..... now we're getting a little closer. Of course that $105 gives me 5 more average troop boxes.
[Edit] Oh Snap, I went back and looked at the text of the Levels, because I thought I missed something. Turn out I did, the +3 Units of Troops and Support is capped at $45 each.... W T F
So it's actually... 200+390+390+45+45+18=1088 995/1088=.914 Which means at General you get an AMAZING 8.6% off Retail.
Which leads me to question how they can post the discounts are from 17% to 40%
More Freebies, more Stretch Goals, and load of other good news!
Update #8 · Jun 9, 2013 · comment
Hi guys!
We have many super good news for you today!!!
First, please know how excitedly happy we are for your support, and for the enthusiasm you have for the Toughest Girls of the Galaxy. We have lovingly designed each one, thinking long and hard about their character, drawing from hundreds of references both in real life and from the masters, agonizing over the position of an arm, the angle of a head, the shape of clothes, ...
To see this had work pay off here is overwhelming.
Unlocking the minis faster
We've read and listened to you carefully these past 3 days.
And we got that many of you are worried that the miniatures that you want might not be unlocked by the end of the Kickstarter...
Well, we can't have that!
So, going forward, you can expect that there will be a new miniature unlocked as a Stretch Goal pretty much every $10,000.
And so, to follow this new pattern, we have added a new Stretch Goal at $340,000: the Iron Empire Heavy Troopers Box.
But of course, that's not all. We also spent the last 3 days crunching numbers, talking to our partners, suppliers and freelancers, so that we could upgrade the campaign to what it has now become.
The result of this?
Well, you will be seeing Freebies, as well as Free Upgrades for already unlocked miniatures, much more frequently!
For the $335,000 mark, we will unlock one Tank Crew for the Kurganova Shock Troops.
And we moved back the already-announced $350,000 Freebie to $345,000, where we will unlock the Tank Crew for the Iron Empire.
But wait, there's more :-)
By popular demand, these 2 characters, as well as Ash, the Jailbird tank gunner already released as a Freebie, will be complete miniatures, with legs.
This way, you will be able to use them either as Tank Crew characters, or as regular Heroines.
Ok, if you're a bit lost, here's a quick summary of what's coming for unlock at the moment:
$330,000: Tank Stopper Katrina Zerga – Now Unlocked!
$335,000: FREEBIE: Tank Crew for the Kurganova Shock Troops (complete)
$340,000: Iron Empire Heavy Troopers Box
$345,000: FREEBIE: Tank Crew for the Iron Empire (complete)
$350,000: Mad Nurse Bernadette
$355,000: UPGRADE PACK (details to be announced)
$360,000: Jailbirds' Mecha
$365,000: FREEBIE (details to be announced)
$370,000: A new miniature (details to be announced)
...
WE'RE on BOINGBOING!
GUESS WHO MADE ITTO THE FRONT PAGE OF BOINGBOING.NET, posted by none other than CORY DOCTOROW??? WE DID!!!
From his post: “Raging Heroes is a spectacularly successful new Kickstarter to produce 150 female warrior miniatures divided into three armies. They were looking for $12,000 and hit that in 30 seconds. Now they're over $300K and still rising, with over 1,400 backers. The minis are very beautiful, and the studio, based in France, has a textbook-example, perfectly structured KS. But 30 seconds. Wow.'
Cory Doctorow is the co-editor of the boinboing blog, which is one of the most popular blog in the world!
So please don't hesitate to REPOST (here's the link: http://bit.ly/13q6tUI ) and to ADD YOUR COMMENT to his post!!! It could make a real difference...
The announced changes to SG frequency and increased frequency of freebies is a good thing. Though the former, distance between regular SGs dropping, most people had pretty much taken to be the case after the announcement of the mecha SG. It is nice that they're sliding another one in at $340k though.
As for the freebies, extra models are always cool. Even more so now that the tank commanders are going to have legs as standard rather than having to use a pair from a box of troopers. More important now that you could end up without any troopers in your LT+ box if you just wanted heroines and mecha.
Time to sit back and see what this update does to pledging once more people read it.
This new update looks like they've really been listening/reading the concerns on unlocks and added value.
I'm torn. I plan on using what I get as a small veteran style force. But eventually I do plan on owning every single damn mini they make. They are just to gorgeous.
Loud'n Raging wrote:We are indeed planning to make the freebies also available for purchase within the Kickstarter, for those who want extras. We'll be taking care of that soon.
Could be good, depending on what other freebies are unlocked moving forwards, personally don't have a use for multiple tank commanders, but I'm sure there are those who do.
PsychoticStorm wrote: TalonZahn from update 7 onward just add up all the $ your pledge has and spend them as you like.
That's what my first numbers were in the non-green unedited area. So 15.6% off retail.
I did the calculation on discount on each product using the RRP and the price on the kickstarter graphics, so the discount is per item, if for example you used all your pledges money to buy just 10$ heroes the discount would add up to 40%, on the other hand an all heavy troops pledge would be 16% and a mix would vary.
Loud'n Raging wrote:We are indeed planning to make the freebies also available for purchase within the Kickstarter, for those who want extras. We'll be taking care of that soon.
Could be good, depending on what other freebies are unlocked moving forwards, personally don't have a use for multiple tank commanders, but I'm sure there are those who do.
Yeh, I don't really have any need for a tank commander for each faction since it's only one faction that ill be collecting. It would be nice if that freebie was "your choice of tank commander". Oh well, they're still free. I'll find something to do with them.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Remember when talking about discounts you also have to factor in the free stuff you get with some pledge levels (KS exclusives & extra heroines
if somebody wants to factor these numbers into the discounts above
Factor in what? Where's the "extra $105" coming from at General? The little box shows you exactly what you get.
So let's go to the $995 deal, you get; $200 + $390 +$390 +3 Free Troops ($25 each is the most expensive) + 3 Free Support ($35 is the most expensive) + Free Rocketeer ($18) = $1178 Retail. So 995/1178 = 84.4 which translates into a whole 15.6% off retail. Keep in mind, it only gets worse from there. If I don't pick 3 sets of Lulu's (whatever they turn out to be) or 3 Mechs for Support, my discount goes down.
As for "Freebies"... so far we have a few bits for minis you might not even buy/take/pick/purchase, the top half of a mini (which again might not even be of use unless you pick that faction), and a Digital Book (woo hoo).
Hell, I'll throw in the $105 just for giggles and that finally takes the discount up to 22.5%..... now we're getting a little closer. Of course that $105 gives me 5 more average troop boxes.
[Edit] Oh Snap, I went back and looked at the text of the Levels, because I thought I missed something. Turn out I did, the +3 Units of Troops and Support is capped at $45 each.... W T F
So it's actually... 200+390+390+45+45+18=1088 995/1088=.914 Which means at General you get an AMAZING 8.6% off Retail.
Which leads me to question how they can post the discounts are from 17% to 40%
You're missing the point, general gets you 8.6% off the KS prices,
which are somewhere between 17 (the $10 heroines) to 40% (the $15 heroines) off the proposed eventual retail prices
The tank commanders are FULL MODELS:
"Loud'n Raging less than a minute ago
For those who missed it: FREEBIES are now FULL MODELS! :-)"
"But wait, there's more :-)
By popular demand, these 2 characters, as well as Ash, the Jailbird tank gunner already released as a Freebie, will be complete miniatures, with legs.
This way, you will be able to use them either as Tank Crew characters, or as regular Heroines."
Why, I feel as if I have caught a biscuit... (well, had someone catch a biscuit for me, it's catchier the other way).
With the SGs at a defined 10k, more freebies and more upgrades adding value, the threshold for complete unlock is only another $400k or so, meaning well before a million they will have essentially 3 full lines ready.
Really quite wonderful. This has the look of a roadmap to loverly iron soldiers...
$330,000: Tank Stopper Katrina Zerga – Now Unlocked!
$335,000: FREEBIE: Tank Crew for the Kurganova Shock Troops (complete)
$340,000: Iron Empire Heavy Troopers Box
$345,000: FREEBIE: Tank Crew for the Iron Empire (complete)
$350,000: Mad Nurse Bernadette
$355,000: UPGRADE PACK (details to be announced)
$360,000: Jailbirds' Mecha
$365,000: FREEBIE (details to be announced)
$370,000: A new miniature (details to be announced)
Ouze wrote: It also looks like it's picking up a little more momentum - it's at 58 pledgers already today, when it was at 47 and 45 each for the last 2 days.
The timing of this update (whether intentional or fortuitous) with the publicity from the BoingBoing article will be fine multiplier. Get new eyes on the project, and encourage old backers to stay or upgrade to levels that get freebies.
Ouze wrote: It also looks like it's picking up a little more momentum - it's at 58 pledgers already today, when it was at 47 and 45 each for the last 2 days.
The backers boost was significant and game changing, it was hovering at 10 most of the day, I feel this is finally on the right track.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: I think it still might take a while to get to $730K though.
Most people probably won't be adding to their initial pledges until a lot more stuff gets unlocked - especially the Mechs and bikes.
Still, glad to see they listened to constructive criticism - this is a great update, and will be an excellent shot in the arm.
Its now a dual game bring in new people and make current backers wanting to spend more.
PsychoticStorm wrote: The backers boost was significant and game changing, it was hovering at 10 most of the day, I feel this is finally on the right track.
It was 25 new backers and 7,000$ 4 hours ago, before the update.
And the rest might have been caused by the prominent blog reference, not by a new stretch goal.
But if you all have the feeling, that everything is right now, I don't complain.
Everything is not "right" the frontpage needs a redesign and the upcoming freebies streachgoals will be crucial, but I would be a liar if I said at this moment I am not extremely pleased with the updates and direction.
which are somewhere between 17 (the $10 heroines) to 40% (the $15 heroines) off the proposed eventual retail prices
I had a long maths reply, then thought... I wonder if this cold and meds is messing with me for the last few days.
You are right, and I am not.
A $20 Retail Troop is $15, so already 25% off.
Heroines are easiest to figure, so I will adjust math there. $200 of KS price Heroines is 20 Heroines, $200 of Retail Heroines is 12.2 Heroines.
Troops would be something like what they posted, 26 boxes @ KS Price at $390 and 19.5 @ Retail price at $390.
How many have I led astray!??!
I will submit myself to the Pain Glove now.
Nooooooooo ,
It's certainly not the easiest KS setup to understand
I wonder how much of that is Raging Heroes, and how much is the late rewrite KS demanded of them (and I wonder if the positively horrible wording on the 'swapping' update has been used to they can pretend it's not gone back to the way they originally planned)
whatever their latest announcement (more free stuff) kind of makes the debate less relevant anyway
Well I'm happy, the last few updates have pretty much knocked all my worries out of the park. I've had a bad experience with KS so far starting with wyrd's rpg as my first I was immensely disappointed with how they ran it, with a mass of effort to make it not so terrible in the last few days, by which point it was already too late and I'd withdrawn long ago. Then Gates of Antares was a massive flop, I've always regretted not getting on board with projects like reapers bones, at least now I might be in for a good one fingers crossed.
On a side note the tank commanders I won't use could be excellent presents for one of my groups at least, extra freebies is never a bad thing surely.
If I'm not wrong, they increased the price of the heavy units. Does that mean that we'll possibly need to top up our pledges when swapping between heavy troops, troops and heroines?
I think it's all just dollar values now. Which is great, quite frankly. I'll probably be using my existing pledge to get almost entirely heroines in metal as stuff to paint, and picking up every other model, and probably some larger units post-KS.
Long story short, great amount of money at launch, horribly handled communication. Second day, pretty much the same, horribly handled communication. Third day, improvements, more communication, more stretch goals, more definitions. Fourth day, great improvements, drastic shift to the pledge styles, greatly improved communication. Today? Greatest of improvements (improved the stretch goals to keep making pledging more appealing than waiting for launch,) set the stage for consistent stretch goal numbers, and the possibility of increased value at Captain or Above pledge level.
Effectively, they are learning at a very quick rate, and improving where they had misteps earlier. Still early in the campaign, but looks to be an amazing growth in both the KS itself, and the creators.
Editted: To Add a SG highlight, and update highlight.
For Stretch Highlights, we have two freebie minis (Jailbird Armored Division officer, and the Kurganova version.) The third will be at 345k.
Add on Stretch Goals will be at the 10k mark, consistently.
Pledges are now, pretty much, a "cash value" system, so you can mix match a bit more.
Freebies seem to be placed now between the add on unlocks.
somewheresomehow wrote: Long story short, great amount of money at launch, horribly handled communication. Second day, pretty much the same, horribly handled communication. Third day, improvements, more communication, more stretch goals, more definitions. Fourth day, great improvements, drastic shift to the pledge styles, greatly improved communication. Today? Greatest of improvements (improved the stretch goals to keep making pledging more appealing than waiting for launch,) set the stage for consistent stretch goal numbers, and the possibility of increased value at Captain or Above pledge level.
Effectively, they are learning at a very quick rate, and improving where they had misteps earlier. Still early in the campaign, but looks to be an amazing growth in both the KS itself, and the creators.
Editted: To Add a SG highlight, and update highlight.
For Stretch Highlights, we have two freebie minis (Jailbird Armored Division officer, and the Kurganova version.) The third will be at 345k.
Add on Stretch Goals will be at the 10k mark, consistently.
Pledges are now, pretty much, a "cash value" system, so you can mix match a bit more.
Freebies seem to be placed now between the add on unlocks.
Hope this helps!
That's... a really good summary, actually.
The only thing I would really add for Tides is that the "Freebie" miniatures that have been added were originally going to be torso-and-up designed to be used in an armored vehicle portal. They will still be that, but will be full models that come complete with legs in addition to the... tank plug.
Don't forget complaints about plastic too ; p
I'll add a complaint about metal too - I much prefer to not work with it! Still debating if RH awesome models are worth the annoyance of the metal.
somewheresomehow wrote: Snarky only because I was being blunt, as he asked for a summary, and then I added a small couple of sentences for personal reflection.
I didn't want to try and summarized here, because well.. MADNESS!
I wasn't calling YOU snarky, I was calling ME snarky! Sorry brother!
Edit: Strike that, I was kinda regretting jumping ship any way, and since I'm getting work.... the new math and flexibility options are great though.
My new math LT Level $188 shipped (inc: $150 in models) (get freebies here, +minis, some bits) Full Break Down: Commander Elektra $10 Irina Vega $10 Karmina Noxx $10 2x grunt CS - $30 4x grunt squads $60 1x HCS - $20 $10 left from $150
Add ons: Heroines: Not Tech Priestess - $20 Katrina Zerga - $10 Arushka - $10 Volga Potemkine - $15 Troops: 2x H Grunts $30 - $10 $273 Minis: 52 base, 56 total (freebies, I'm assuming we're AT LEAST clearing the tank commanders, Ash is destined for a Vanquisher turret as Knight Commander Ashley Pask (Yeah it's sacrilege, eat it) , the Kruganova tanker will probably end up on foot or I might find another tank turret for her, the Iron Empire model will be painted in the name of being awesome in the most dramatic pose I can manage. Skulls will be involved.
Not bad actually, the only thing that could really get me to up my pledge cash wise is unlocking the Kruganova sniper team, and them being ridiculously awesome. We'll see if I keep my pledge, gonna depend on how much work gets thrown my way the next couple weeks, I did just make a just shy of one thousand dollar investment so the wallet's hurting this month already. Not too sad about the loss of the Early Bird either, cost difference is negligible.
Iron Empire heavy troopers unlocked! Woot, I guess.
Can I be honest? I'm starting to get a little discouraged with the unlocks. So far we haven't seen a single unlocked mini I'm really excited about. And it isn't like I'm super picky, I've got lots of minis I want to see in the queue. Any of the snipers, any of the bikes, a half a dozen or so of the characters...it just seems like all the characters that have been unlocked are, thus far, kinda 'meh.' (I love the sculpts, don't get me wrong, I just don't see most of them fitting in with what I want my army to look like.) I'm just not a fan of mecha, I guess, and the heavy troopers haven't really done it for me.
I don't know, I assume that everything will be revealed eventually, I just wish that I could get some of the stuff I've really been waiting for into the batting lineup.
I can understand that sentiment Jim. But I have a feeling you aren't the only one, and for the varying armies. There are so many minis we have yet to see. Some are even not caring about anything but the heroes, while others aren't caring about anything but the troopers, or support. I think with patience, we will see what will get our steam engines revving to build the armies of our desires from these minis.
Oh, let's just say, I have pledged additional money for heroines not yet unlocked, even ones I am just hoping the render is awesome.
Yeah I think we'll all walk away with roughly what we want from this you know? I'm with... one earlier poster who's name I am having trouble remembering. I'm positioning my ladies as an elite infantry force, two squads of lights, a bunch of heavies bringing the heat, snipers with a sniper hero taking the ranged pain and a core of hard core curb stomping elite troops.
Hah! In other news I briefly moved up in the world, happened to be on the page playing with the math when the earliest of the EB Commander slots opened up, yoink!
prankster wrote: For future reference we're at $332,355 pledged.
So, a jump to $341,506 following the update yesterday evening and there's probably more people who've not seen it. Though given the blog post some of this is going to be new backers who've come on board but some of it will be people upping their pledge to the LT level if they weren't already at or above it. This was on top of the $7k or so that had already been pledged before the update, putting the total at $17.5k for the day.
The question is, was this just a blip due to the blog post / update combination or are we going to see this as the new average pledge per day moving forwards? How this is answered depends squarely on how RH communicate through this week. If the average pledge per day is to stay at this level (or increase further) they need to be on top of updates as and when SGs are reached. I'm not saying we need a massive post each time, just a quick paragraph or so and then details of the next SGs that are being added to the pile. We've had an add-on SG and a freebie SG unlocked since their update and we're sitting fairly close to the third tank commander SG. If they can get out an update this morning with details of the $365k and $370k SGs they should be able to keep this momentum going. Hopefully the next update will also give us some details of the $355k upgrade pack unlock as we're relatively close to that as well.
Whilst any SG reveal would be nice to see, I think it'd be especially nice to see either one of the bikes or a set of snipers for the next add-on SG reveal, and then the other after that at $380k. That way we'll have seen at least one example from each and people can get an idea of what the same unit from the other factions would look like.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Hah! In other news I briefly moved up in the world, happened to be on the page playing with the math when the earliest of the EB Commander slots opened up, yoink!
So very, very envious!
Also I did say RH was listening to communities, glad people are happy with the latest updates
Also I did say RH was listening to communities, glad people are happy with the latest updates
Indeed, the last couple updates were pretty good, but I think Update 8 spells it out in 30 foot neon that the comm lines are open. Looks like the first of the hotly anticipated minis (the Mad Nurse) is upcoming though, I wonder if unlocking her will mean a spike?
Brief poll question for you lot, since I have three tank commanders to pick from for my normal IG Army. Who makes the better stand in for Knight Commander Pask? Ash (Jail Birds), Jaheda Kano (Kruganova) or Kristina Karlstein? (IE)
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Brief poll question for you lot, since I have three tank commanders to pick from for my normal IG Army. Who makes the better stand in for Knight Commander Pask? Ash (Jail Birds), Jaheda Kano (Kruganova) or Kristina Karlstein? (IE)
I would vote for Jaheda Kano followed by Kristina "Drive-Me-Closer" Karlstein.
Brief poll question for you lot, since I have three tank commanders to pick from for my normal IG Army. Who makes the better stand in for Knight Commander Pask? Ash (Jail Birds), Jaheda Kano (Kruganova) or Kristina Karlstein? (IE)
I'll probably be using Ash to sub in for Pask. Kano is going to by my Master of Ordnance now that she has legs, and Karlstein will probably also end up serving as a Regimental Advisor.
Yonan wrote: Don't forget complaints about plastic too ; p
I'll add a complaint about metal too - I much prefer to not work with it! Still debating if RH awesome models are worth the annoyance of the metal.
Out of interest, how do you find metal annoying? For non-multipart figures at least.
It's harder to do conversions with? Any cutting/trimming is more difficult? Glued pieces more likely to come apart if the model falls over? These are the "downsides" I've heard people mention about metal. (Although I prefer it to all other mini media myself.)
Jimsolo wrote: It's harder to do conversions with? Any cutting/trimming is more difficult? Glued pieces more likely to come apart if the model falls over? These are the "downsides" I've heard people mention about metal. (Although I prefer it to all other mini media myself.)
Those. I love to convert, but converting metal is a pain. Also, the paint chips off much more easily.
Glad to see that we can swap between categories now. I'm not terribly interested in any of the support that's been unlocked yet (and I'm not keen on the Jailbird mech,) but being able to use that for $60 of troopers or characters will be nice.
Still, despite all the kvetching that's been going on, this thing is trucking along quite nicely. I really was expecting to see this drop down to a much slower lull but it seems to be adding 40-50 people and a good $8k each day, which is pretty darn good for a week in.
Yonan wrote: Don't forget complaints about plastic too ; p
I'll add a complaint about metal too - I much prefer to not work with it! Still debating if RH awesome models are worth the annoyance of the metal.
Out of interest, how do you find metal annoying? For non-multipart figures at least.
Jimsolo wrote: It's harder to do conversions with? Any cutting/trimming is more difficult? Glued pieces more likely to come apart if the model falls over? These are the "downsides" I've heard people mention about metal. (Although I prefer it to all other mini media myself.)
Those. I love to convert, but converting metal is a pain. Also, the paint chips off much more easily.
Yep, all of the above. I do like the feel though, but that's seriously outweighed.
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Krinsath wrote: I like the look of those Iron Empire heavies; they'd make a very nice Stormtrooper squad indeed.
Jimsolo wrote: It's harder to do conversions with? Any cutting/trimming is more difficult? Glued pieces more likely to come apart if the model falls over? These are the "downsides" I've heard people mention about metal. (Although I prefer it to all other mini media myself.)
Cutting these works of art is a sin, so the material is not ideal for sinners And you don't want all the details to break off.
Actually I prefer metal to Finecast even for GW, as many do. Characters usually are very individually sculpted, unlike troops where diversity is more important.
Actually I prefer metal to Finecast even for GW, as many do. Characters usually are very individually sculpted, unlike troops where diversity is more important.
I just chopped my new Spiritseer from four places and repositioned his body and arm. It would have been an utter nightmare with a metal model. But I'm an obsessive converter. Unless I have converted the model somehow, it really doesn't feel like it's mine.
Brief poll question for you lot, since I have three tank commanders to pick from for my normal IG Army. Who makes the better stand in for Knight Commander Pask? Ash (Jail Birds), Jaheda Kano (Kruganova) or Kristina Karlstein? (IE)
I'll probably be using Ash to sub in for Pask. Kano is going to by my Master of Ordnance now that she has legs, and Karlstein will probably also end up serving as a Regimental Advisor.
That's more or less what I was thinking.
Side note, inspiration for Ash?
Second side note is it just me or is Volga Potemkine the most stereotypically dense Russian name in the history of the universe?
As to Jezebel... is there a single chain mail bikini in this entire KS? Pretty much everyone's in body armor except the Jailbirds who are rocking the "Sucker Punch"/"Tank Girl"/"Rambo" vibe. Still that's pretty good for Jezebel.
And no, I think Olga Romanova would be the most stereotypically dense russian name in the history of the universe.^^
And as said, no there is not a single chain mail bikini, there is only 1 of 150 girls wearing one (bikini, not armor). A one-armed zombie with diver helmet. Yay super sexy or something like that XD
I dunno though, Volga Potemkine makes a strong effort for itself, what with the Volga river, which draws reference to the Battle of Stalingrad (as the film Enemy at the Gates so poetically put it "the city on the banks of the Volga where the fate of the world would be decided...") and then Potemkine which is a not even subtle reference to the film Battleship Potemkin, an Eisenstein classic of Russian, and in particular communist film about a crew of bolshevik sailors rebelling against the tsarist officers of their ship in 1905.
KalashnikovMarine
Yes, the names are pretty obvious but nice references, especially Eisenstein, even though it should be general education I don't think everyone knows immediatly from where this name came.
Regarding Ash
Ah, now I see. Sure, possible.
Great that Karlstein is nor unlocked too. So we have every tank girl and Bernadette isn't so far away either. Looking good on the front.
LnR wrote:We'll be unavailable for the next 3 hours, but we'll be back with details of the 355,000$ Free Upgrade. Just know it will be about the Troopers
I have to admit, they really have turned the feeling of this thing around. I hope they keep responding to their backers' input and become successful because of it.
Still, I do hope we get something in plastic at some point.
They are doing far better. Now if they can manage to get the cost down somehow on the troop units (14-18% isn't nearly enough over a year out) I'd probably actually go in higher. Right now the cost is still to prohibitive to do a decent sized army a year in advance.
prankster wrote: I'm going to guess at some sort of alternate weapons for the basic troopers, going on conversations in the updates over the past couple of days.
I'm hoping they will add a second box of five more different troopers to each army so that there are 10 unique figs to build from. Five figs is not really enough to build an army no matter how posable they are...
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I hope they keep responding to their backers' input and become successful because of it.
That's what they've always done in the past. Just look at the previous Raging Heroes thread and the changes they've incorporated into their miniatures.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I have to admit, they really have turned the feeling of this thing around. I hope they keep responding to their backers' input and become successful because of it.
Still, I do hope we get something in plastic at some point.
I have to admit this whole "they aren't successful" still leaves me puzzled... They already hit their funding goal and then some. Since when is the only criteria for "success" a runway, and possibly unsustainable, binge on Kickstarter?
While the big "blockbuster" Kickstarters tend to give lots of rewards to backers (which of course is good for them assuming they actually get delivered!), I'm not at all convinced it's a good thing for the companies that get them. Factor in Kickstarter's "cut", expectation for free (or discounted) shipping, and the heavy demand for deep discounts/deals/specials/you name it, and the pot of money that's needed to support a delivery schedule that stretches for months (or even close to years!) is pretty darned thin if there's no sustained sales to under pin it. Some of the recent successes are now promising product many, many months in advance which puts them in a potentially precarious position when much of their prospective revenue stream (i.e. buyers!) will have already been sopped up by the KS and they're left with an extended commitment to meet.
On top of that, most of the "blockbuster" kickstarters seem to have had problems keeping to promised timelines (and usually delays = greater costs).
It'll be interesting to see how mega KS "success stories" play out over the coming years. Will they become viable businesses, with a sustainable business model, or will the KS crack just lead to crashes?
I don't know, but I certainly don't think the jury is yet in on using KS, especially in this market, to build a sustained business. As an aside, I also have to wonder what the impact of the whole Kickstarter bubble will be on the gaming world as a whole. There're either a heck of a lot more liquid assets in the hands of gamers than I suspected, or there's going to be some tight times as gamers find their wallets squeezed by KS pledges down the road...
LnR wrote:We'll be unavailable for the next 3 hours, but we'll be back with details of the 355,000$ Free Upgrade. Just know it will be about the Troopers
They are really cautious now with panicky customers:
"I am going to the lavatory for 5 minutes, please don't pull your pledge in the meantime."
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I have to admit, they really have turned the feeling of this thing around. I hope they keep responding to their backers' input and become successful because of it.
Still, I do hope we get something in plastic at some point.
I have to admit this whole "they aren't successful" still leaves me puzzled... They already hit their funding goal and then some. Since when is the only criteria for "success" a runway, and possibly unsustainable, binge on Kickstarter?
While the big "blockbuster" Kickstarters tend to give lots of rewards to backers (which of course is good for them assuming they actually get delivered!), I'm not at all convinced it's a good thing for the companies that get them. Factor in Kickstarter's "cut", expectation for free (or discounted) shipping, and the heavy demand for deep discounts/deals/specials/you name it, and the pot of money that's needed to support a delivery schedule that stretches for months (or even close to years!) is pretty darned thin if there's no sustained sales to under pin it. Some of the recent successes are now promising product many, many months in advance which puts them in a potentially precarious position when much of their prospective revenue stream (i.e. buyers!) will have already been sopped up by the KS and they're left with an extended commitment to meet.
On top of that, most of the "blockbuster" kickstarters seem to have had problems keeping to promised timelines (and usually delays = greater costs).
It'll be interesting to see how mega KS "success stories" play out over the coming years. Will they become viable businesses, with a sustainable business model, or will the KS crack just lead to crashes?
I don't know, but I certainly don't think the jury is yet in on using KS, especially in this market, to build a sustained business. As an aside, I also have to wonder what the impact of the whole Kickstarter bubble will be on the gaming world as a whole. There're either a heck of a lot more liquid assets in the hands of gamers than I suspected, or there's going to be some tight times as gamers find their wallets squeezed by KS pledges down the road...
Valete,
JohnS
By successful, I mean that they would unlock all of the designs they have shown so far, resulting in complete and useful armies. If they failed to unlock many of, say, the Kurganovas, it might put people off the entire line.
There's also the question of how much untapped potential a kickstarter has, as well as how it affects the company's relationship with their customers. Through the Breach was technically successful, but it left me with a sense of incompletion since they didn't hit all the book stretch goals that would provide necessary chapters for the rpg, and a bad feeling towards Wyrd behind. Mantic's KoWKS was successful, but their subsequent actions have hurt the company's reputation and half their sculpts will be duds. Thon looked great and was "successful", but ended up cancelling because they couldn't tap their potential at the time.
So unless they produce every idea they've ever had in this kick starter the whole campaign is a failure? Maybe if this were a board game, or self contained set, but they are launching a line.
Applying your logic the Apollo program was a failure because it didn't put men on Pluto.
HisDivineShadow wrote: So unless they produce every idea they've ever had in this kick starter the whole campaign is a failure? Maybe if this were a board game, or self contained set, but they are launching a line.
Applying your logic the Apollo program was a failure because it didn't put men on Pluto.
That isn't what he was saying - that's a bit of a straw man there, and not something that will help foster useful debate and discussion.
HisDivineShadow wrote: So unless they produce every idea they've ever had in this kick starter the whole campaign is a failure? Maybe if this were a board game, or self contained set, but they are launching a line.
Applying your logic the Apollo program was a failure because it didn't put men on Pluto.
It'd be more along the line of Apollo circling the moon but never landing. Sure, you got TO the moon, and past it technically, but it wasn't quite the same as what your goal was understood to be from the "We choose to go to the moon" speech. You can easily redefine the goal to cover that shortfall, but everyone will know you didn't really meet it no matter how much spin you put on it.
They specifically said they have 150 models for the line, and their real goal is to get all of them into production. If you for a second believe that $12,000 was the actual target I have some beachfront property in Montana to sell you. They are playing the KS game and playing it fairly well IMO. I think there was a bit of "SKY IS FALLING" going on early, but I'd honestly be surprised if this one failed to crack the 1M mark and be "completely" successful. It's possible they might fall short, of course, but we're still too far out to tell for sure.
Speaking of GW bits, does any one have a lead on Adeptus Mechanicus style bits? That Necropriestess is becoming a Mechanicus Techpriestess show piece and I want a bad ass base.
I have to say; my interest in the now-3 different tank driver half-models was a pretty firm "meh", figuring one would get used and 2 would get chucked into a bits box forever.
That they are going to add the bottom halves is pretty exciting; I'm sure I can find room for these extra models somewhere.
Ouze wrote: I have to say; my interest in the now-3 different tank driver half-models was a pretty firm "meh", figuring one would get used and 2 would get chucked into a bits box forever.
That they are going to add the bottom halves is pretty exciting; I'm sure I can find room for these extra models somewhere.
I know. I can think of *tons* of uses for these ladies now that they have bottom halves.
Ouze wrote: I have to say; my interest in the now-3 different tank driver half-models was a pretty firm "meh", figuring one would get used and 2 would get chucked into a bits box forever.
That they are going to add the bottom halves is pretty exciting; I'm sure I can find room for these extra models somewhere.
I know. I can think of *tons* of uses for these ladies now that they have bottom halves.
I really hope you were insinuating what I think you are insinuating....
HisDivineShadow wrote: Then, depending on your asking price, I may very well be interested in that beach front Montana property.
As long as I get some freebies.
I'm also interested in more info on troop box contents. Converting gw bits onto these seems like...heresy
$78 million dollars. Although you could definitely say there are some freebies.
But, back on topic: I agree. I would love if there were some bits that looked GW enough to justify what they count as, but not so close as to invite a lawsuit. That would be awesome! If the troops don't get weapons options, I may have to lurk in the alley outside my local game store and mug Guard players.
(the parts pertaining trooper boxes and their free upgrade)
And you are now cruising along quite nicely towards the next Free Upgrade, which will be included in ALL Regular Troopers boxes for Jailbirds, Kurganovas, and Iron Empire, regardless of your pledge level.
The Troopers Boxes
As you may be aware, all the troopers and command group boxes of the Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter are made of 5 multi-part miniatures with, and this is crucial, ball-joint assembly. This means maximum possible flexibility in repositioning your soldiers and customizing your units.
Furthermore, please note that each Command Group box doubles up as a second Trooper Box since, inside a Command Group box, you get everything you need to make 5 troopers. And you get additional accessories to transform two of them into Weapon Specialists and one of them into a Sergeant.
And of course, the 5 Command Group soldiers are different for the 5 soldiers in the Troopers Box.
In the end, you can build large units that will have much diversity.
What's in a Box?
Each Trooper Box is made of 5 multi-parts troopers. They will be split as follows: head, torso, left arm, right arm, pair of legs.
We are still debating with the foundries to see exactly how we handle the rifles.
We know that the rifles will be supplied as a separate part. But we are still studying the possibility of having the two hands attached to the rifle (and therefore, separated from the arm at the wrist), or just having the right hand attached to the rifle, with the left hand remaining attached to the left arm.
We think that this second option is probably the best for several reasons, but we still have to do a few tests before making a final decision (which will be before the end of the Kickstarter).
The upcoming $355,000 Update (nearly there!)
When we reach $355,000, a new Free Upgrade Pack will be unlocked.
This one is for the Regular Troopers Box for each army (Jailbirds, KST, IE).
With this Free Upgrade, each box of 5 miniatures will now contain 3 additional alternate heads and 3 additional pair of arms which will allow you to add even more variety on the tabletop, as well as several additional accessories like grenades, satchels, contact weapons and sidearms.
Also, many of you have been asking for un-helmeted versions of the Iron Empire Troopers.
Well, we heard you and you're getting your wish: all the heads from the Troopers Upgrade Pack will be un-helmeted.
I'm hoping they will add a second box of five more different troopers to each army so that there are 10 unique figs to build from. Five figs is not really enough to build an army no matter how posable they are...
T
Well that got answered pretty quickly...
"Furthermore, please note that each Command Group box doubles up as a second Trooper Box since, inside a Command Group box, you get everything you need to make 5 troopers. And you get additional accessories to transform two of them into Weapon Specialists and one of them into a Sergeant.
And of course, the 5 Command Group soldiers are different for the 5 soldiers in the Troopers Box."
I'm hoping they will add a second box of five more different troopers to each army so that there are 10 unique figs to build from. Five figs is not really enough to build an army no matter how posable they are...
T
Well that got answered pretty quickly...
"Furthermore, please note that each Command Group box doubles up as a second Trooper Box since, inside a Command Group box, you get everything you need to make 5 troopers. And you get additional accessories to transform two of them into Weapon Specialists and one of them into a Sergeant.
And of course, the 5 Command Group soldiers are different for the 5 soldiers in the Troopers Box."
I'm planning on going mainly Jailbird, but mixing in a few Iron Empire and Kurganova pieces to add some variety. Considering that Jailbirds are already relatively haphazardly equipped, I think this could work out nicely.
So it seems like the reveal order is kind of formulaic, but Raging Heroes also seems pretty good about listening to feedback.
So on that note, which models do you want to see revealed next? Pick, say, five. I'm just curious if I'm justified in drooling over my choices, of if I should just shut up and let everyone else have what they want first.
If it were my choice, I'd go:
5- Yoko the Psycho Pyromaniac.
4- Bikes. Specifically, the Jailbird bikes, but any of them that aren't Iron Empire would be sweet.
3- Alternate cut of Invanka Kurganova. That threatens to be an amazing mini!
2- Snipers. Any of the support box snipers. ANY of them!
1- One Shot Blondie!
Hey, interesting question now that I think of it. Does anyone know if there are any concrete plans for the game rules to be released later? For instance, will the heroine models have unique rules, or will they just be particularly pretty models to represent generic hero profiles?
1.) Any bike.
2.) LuLus (Just so I can get this choice over and done with.)
3.) Yoko or Mortaria (either is fine with me.)
4.) Snipers (specifically either Jailbird or Kurganova. The IE one looks like a horrible sniper dance team.)
5.) The rest of the Mechs.
Jim, to answer your question, supposedly the rules will be all inclusive, so the heroes are going to get treated like that, and each given rules, etc. That is from what little I have read in their blogs and such. Most is snippets, and implications and assumptions that can be made by wording. I just assume that they wouldn't shoot themselves with a very constrictive rule set, when they are very heroine focused in the "body" of their work.
The hippo is my favorite design so far this Kickstarter--that little guy is adorable!
Irina looks great, but I can't shake the impression that the boobs were scrawled in over some original artwork, like a graffiti mustache or a Richard Johnson penned onto the face of a passed-out fratboy. Other than that, amazing. I really wish more sculptors went for commanders who looked like they are actually commanding rather than just screaming whilst shooting into a horde. While Marneus is busy busting some avatar face in, Irina is actually getting something important done.
When the model hits retail, I'll have to take a look. It maybe be worth attempting the ScarletSquig Werewolf Solution to save that model...
EDIT: For those of you who don't want the free hippo, PM me after the kickstarter and I'm sure we can come to an arrangement.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: When the model hits retail, I'll have to take a look. It maybe be worth attempting the ScarletSquig Werewolf Solution to save that model...
What is this solution? Sorry, a bit new, and not afraid to say it!
...the hippo is useless to me, in many ways. I forsee him being confined to the bits box. I am much more excited about Irina Vega being up for unlock as she's one the heroines I want.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: When the model hits retail, I'll have to take a look. It maybe be worth attempting the ScarletSquig Werewolf Solution to save that model...
What is this solution? Sorry, a bit new, and not afraid to say it!
Err, filing off any unnecessary protuberances that over-sexualize an otherwise fine model.
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KalashnikovMarine wrote: ...the hippo is useless to me, in many ways. I forsee him being confined to the bits box. I am much more excited about Irina Vega being up for unlock as she's one the heroines I want.
Seriously, I will take him off your hands if you don't want him. Well, depending on asking price. But don't go locking up that baby hippo in some dark, dank bits box! That's just heartbreaking.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: When the model hits retail, I'll have to take a look. It maybe be worth attempting the ScarletSquig Werewolf Solution to save that model...
What is this solution? Sorry, a bit new, and not afraid to say it!
Err, filing off any unnecessary protuberances that over-sexualize an otherwise fine model.
Thank you! And yeah, I do agree, those boobs seem more like orbs added to a trench coat/armor combination, tacked on at a later date.
I will keep the hippo, for at least nothing more than an awesome paper weight!
They did make some comments about thinking of allowing people to pay for additional freebies. I just doubt they are going to make them purchaseable below Lieutanent or Above.
WAIT! That's beer? Holy gak I just found my new best friend! (I loved Spuds Makenzie as a kid... hmmm that might be foreshadowing for the alcoholic I am now)
In other news Free Upgrade #2 is unlocked! Damn that was fast!
Ever since the phenomenon began, I've never understood what makes teenage girls shake their hands, eyes widened, and shout 'squeee!' when exposed to something adorable. Then I saw that hippo. Now, I get it. I totally get it.
Love the hippo. He's totally getting a base and becoming an objective.
So, there's the implication that we're getting another sculpt on Charlie, the Kurganova dog. And we've got the hippo now, so is there going to be an Iron Empire mascot? (Some grizzled, one eyed bird of prey would not go amiss...)
A quick conversation between a Herald and the RH team that you guys might find interesting.
Herald:
The main question the guys I speak to ask is what level of pledge gets them enough to play the game? The majority of the club are more about playing than painting and are fed up with 40k so see this as an alternative. I know the game is a while away but if I could give them an idea of how many minis per side you'd consider a small, medium and large game that'd be great.
RH:
Still a bit early to answer this properly, but we expect it to be equivalent to smaller in size to 40k and there are discussions to also introduce a skirmish version of the rules, so that you could easily come into the game, see if you like it, and then go bigger afterwards.
Herald:
Any ideas on playstyles of the factions?
RH:
Ahhhhh, too early to start getting into this, but check out the Army Backgrounds on the KS main page, this will already give you a feel of where we're heading...
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Jimsolo wrote: Ever since the phenomenon began, I've never understood what makes teenage girls shake their hands, eyes widened, and shout 'squeee!' when exposed to something adorable. Then I saw that hippo. Now, I get it. I totally get it.
So like this?
And I want the Kruganova mascot to be a bear with machine guns.
ph34r wrote: So are people just assuming that the models will look as amazing or more than the concept art? Are people really throwing money at a product that they can't see, a product which has its value entirely based on aesthetics?
Raging Heroes have amazing track record for delivering concept art into actual sculpts.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: A quick conversation between a Herald and the RH team that you guys might find interesting.
Herald:
The main question the guys I speak to ask is what level of pledge gets them enough to play the game? The majority of the club are more about playing than painting and are fed up with 40k so see this as an alternative. I know the game is a while away but if I could give them an idea of how many minis per side you'd consider a small, medium and large game that'd be great.
RH:
Still a bit early to answer this properly, but we expect it to be equivalent to smaller in size to 40k and there are discussions to also introduce a skirmish version of the rules, so that you could easily come into the game, see if you like it, and then go bigger afterwards.
Herald:
Any ideas on playstyles of the factions?
RH:
Ahhhhh, too early to start getting into this, but check out the Army Backgrounds on the KS main page, this will already give you a feel of where we're heading...
This is what bothers me going into this, I was expecting a faction based game, it's not like they haven't had the time to put something together. Now it's just miniatures for a game system I don't play.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: A quick conversation between a Herald and the RH team that you guys might find interesting.
Herald:
The main question the guys I speak to ask is what level of pledge gets them enough to play the game? The majority of the club are more about playing than painting and are fed up with 40k so see this as an alternative. I know the game is a while away but if I could give them an idea of how many minis per side you'd consider a small, medium and large game that'd be great.
RH:
Still a bit early to answer this properly, but we expect it to be equivalent to smaller in size to 40k and there are discussions to also introduce a skirmish version of the rules, so that you could easily come into the game, see if you like it, and then go bigger afterwards.
Herald:
Any ideas on playstyles of the factions?
RH:
Ahhhhh, too early to start getting into this, but check out the Army Backgrounds on the KS main page, this will already give you a feel of where we're heading...
This is what bothers me going into this, I was expecting a faction based game, it's not like they haven't had the time to put something together. Now it's just miniatures for a game system I don't play.
I'm guessing the rules will come with the DE Kickstarter.
Joyboozer wrote: This is what bothers me going into this, I was expecting a faction based game, it's not like they haven't had the time to put something together. Now it's just miniatures for a game system I don't play.
Or you could get them for a game you do play? Or learn another game like what Dream Forge is doing (I think?) Or perhaps some sort of public domain WWII ruleset?
Jimsolo wrote: So, there's the implication that we're getting another sculpt on Charlie, the Kurganova dog. And we've got the hippo now, so is there going to be an Iron Empire mascot? (Some grizzled, one eyed bird of prey would not go amiss...)
If we're getting votes I'd certainly go for a bird of prey, not necessarily a one eyed one, but something along those lines would be cool. Slightly easier to work into my current 40k force than a hippo, though the hippo is certainly cool.
Kroothawk wrote: Everyone is using them for 40k Imperial Guard (or just painting), so the rules are just a bonus.
Yeah, but the reason I never get into any other wargames is because of the start up cost. Since I'll already OWN one (maybe more?) armies for the TGG game, then there's no reason for me NOT to learn the rules. It'd be a fun thing to demo at events and whatnot.
Just because their primary purpose to me is as Guard stand-ins, doesn't mean I can't play their game too. Who knows? I might jump on the 'I quit GW' bandwagon. (Unlikely.)
The fact remains that my primary source of enjoyment in wargaming is from looking awesome to other gamers. I think that the Raging Heroes game might offer a better experience in that regard, since the minis are so amazing. Even if the rules are asinine and broken, my games will still look sweet to spectators. It's not whether I win or lose, it's how many strangers stop to ask what we're playing, and tell us how great our armies look.
Because it's not called Toughest Hippos of the Galaxy. I'd support the bird of prey idea if the freebie was a falconer with the mascot perched on her glove, but otherwise it's three freebie addons wasted on a niche other than the one that is the entire point of the campaign. At least daddy Kurganova is likely going to be a paid addon and not a compulsory dead pick.
Sorry you don't like him, Alex. Unfortunately, he seems to be getting a really good response. (I feel the same way about the mechs as you do about the hippo, if it makes you feel any better. But I recognize that the majority wants giant silly robots, so giant silly robots there will be.)
I think that decorative models (tank commanders) and cute objective markers are pretty good uses of 'freebie' minis. And as several people have already mentioned, it isn't like your Harry will go to waste. If the comments here are anything to go by, it will be easy to trade/sell him off to another avid player. Hell, if you your shipment from them and can't find someone to give you a good deal for your hippo, give me a holler and we'll work something out.
Because it's not called Toughest Hippos of the Galaxy.
The Kurganovas and Königsmark both had a dog as a "freebie" mascot in their boxes so it's not entirely unexpected. On top of that it's a really cute concept and i want it now
I know the Kuragnovas already have a bulldog mascot, but I think -given their were-bear shaman theme- that there might be a better nomination for their mascot:
I would like the jailbird power loader even more if the pilot was sunk slightly further into the machine instead of hanging completely in front (although that might be hard to tell from the concept art).
.
Minx wrote: Stompin' with style:
Jailbird Mecha unlocked!
I would like the jailbird power loader even better if the pilot was sunk slightly more into the machine instead of hanging completely in front (although that might be hard to tell from the concept art).
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I believe that RH has said that their concept artist had limited time and that the mech will be a bit different from how it is shown here. DO let them know about your concerns, they seem to have their won reservations (I distinctly remember seeing a mention that the head in particular was not yet up to what they wanted).
I remember something similar but only found this comment from LnR after a quick visual grep:
quite pose-able, and we've also planned options for other pilot heads in upcoming 'free upgrade' stretch goals
Edit: Perhaps one of the heralds would be kind enough to whisper my preferences concerning the jailbird mecha into RHs all-hearing ears:
"I would like the jailbird power loader even more if the pilot was sunk slightly further into the machine instead of hanging completely in front (although that might be hard to tell from the concept art)". Thank you in advance.
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Kroothawk wrote: Everyone is using them for 40k Imperial Guard (or just painting), so the rules are just a bonus.
I'll be using mine for Warpath.
Haven't found sci-fi rules I liked to use em in :( Wondering about deadzone as the scenery looks nice, models look ok but mantic have never really wowed me except the for three werewolves they have coming up
Haven't found sci-fi rules I liked to use em in :( Wondering about deadzone as the scenery looks nice, models look ok but mantic have never really wowed me except the for three werewolves they have coming up
The only way that could have been worse is if you said you loved their Trolls!
edlowe wrote: Wow! Is there anyway I can pledge just for that mech!
There's no pledge level that covers it, but you could just go the route of pledging $50 for the mech and postage. Though for that, its probably worth finding someone else locally and splitting postage, or going in for more figures
edlowe wrote: Wow! Is there anyway I can pledge just for that mech!
Get the Private pledge, add on an extra $15 (+$20 for shipping), and swap the heroine money for support money. It's... kindof needlessly complicated, but I think that's Kickstarter's 'This is not a store.' rule mucking around with things. You could also do First Class (+ shipping), swap 3 $10 heroines for the mech, and then get one extra heroine.
The international shipping makes pledging for just the mech a mediocre deal though, most likely. You'll probably be better off waiting for the retail release.
Well, for those who are wanting the hippo but aren't pledging at a level to get one / at all, should still be able to get one in future as RH have said that the freebies aren't going to be KS exclusive. Though when that'll be hasn't been mentioned just that they will eventually make their way to retail.
On the subject of information from RH on this, whilst their updates over the past few days have been a welcome change to the first days of the KS I feel that there's still room for improvement when it comes to the timings of updates.
Whilst I appreciate that the last few updates have been quite informative and, some would say, game changing not every update needs to have big things in it. Just a couple of small updates every now and then, that can be thrown up with some new SGs to keep things ticking over whilst they're busy with number crunching / meetings / planning things out further. This would serve to keep people talking about what's coming and mitigate the risk of running out of announced SGs.
Take the current situation, they posted 8 SGs ($335k to $370k) in update 8 on the 9th, followed by a further SG on the 10th ($375k). We've churned through most of those now, with pledges standing at $362,780, but nothing further has been posted and (IIRC) the $375k SG wasn't in the update but has appeared on the front page. A brief update confirming the unlocks and posting a couple of more SGs to work towards would have possibly kept things moving today.
In a similar fashion, the front page of the KS needs a work over a well. There's still outdated images that show figures as locked that aren't, for example Bernadette is showing as the next unlock when further up the page she's showing as unlocked in the large 'poster'.
In summary, they're still doing a good job, but there's room for improvement to keep the momentum of the past couple of days and breeze through the unlocks before the end of the KS.
A cage around the pilot may make the mech look a lot better. Then again I'm not a huge fan of the power lifter concept, so I'm not terribly concerned about the thing being changed; whatever they do to it I'll still probably be meh. The cage *is* a nice idea though.
I play in a very casual environment here in Oklahoma I'm going to use these hardcore ladies as an allied guard force for sure cheaper and easier on the eyes. Any word on when these are coming out?
I wouldn't mind a cage like the obvious inspiriration that is the Aliens loader. But I don't her armored.
No one cries foul @ Guard Sentinels, with the open cockpit. Its lightly armored. That's the concept.
This whole range is drawing on very iconic visual inspiration. Yeah sure we could up armor the mech, but then the homage would be gone.
There is always going to an argument involved in armor. Take the Nolan origin for the Bat suit. We could probably make something like it IRL. But the cost? Soldiers, historically get just enough equipment to win. No more, no less. That's the economics of war.
Hurley wrote: I play in a very casual environment here in Oklahoma I'm going to use these hardcore ladies as an allied guard force for sure cheaper and easier on the eyes. Any word on when these are coming out?
Well, the expected ship date is in 2014, so I assume the models will become commercially available sometime after that. They've mentioned shipping them in waves as they become available to the backers.
If you put some money down on the KS, though, then they'll ship them to you hot off the presses! And at a tidy discount.
Minx wrote: Stompin' with style:
Jailbird Mecha unlocked!
I would like the jailbird power loader even more if the pilot was sunk slightly further into the machine instead of hanging completely in front (although that might be hard to tell from the concept art).
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Why does every one of these walker things have the squishy pilot exposed? Sure, Ripley's claw loader in Aliens didnt have any armor, but that thing was a commercial tool, and she had all of 15 seconds to improvise using it. The jailbirds clearly had enough time to kitbash this and rig up weapon systems, assuming its not military grade by design. Is some sheet metal, armored cockpit or force field too much to ask?
She is exposed in front of it, even the sentinel provides some protection, from light arms fire, if you are to field such a machinery and expect it to do something the pilot should be adequately protected, so yes its not a purpose build military vehicle and adding armoured plating or cockpit will probably be too much stress on the machine, giving the pilot a scavenged heavy armour is not a bad solution or a stretch to the design.
I think it works best if you think of it less as "a dreadnought" and more as "a way to carry heavy, crew-served weapons into battle with only a single operator". In other words, something dropping ordnance from a great deal away, from rocket pods they can't carry themselves when they don't otherwise have vehicles to mount them on (or said vehicles won't work due to terrain).
That scavenged look should be fairly easy to achieve, with a bit of elbow grease, wouldn't it? It doesn't seem a far stretch from, say, converting an Ork Battlewagon.
I quite like the Jailbird Mech. Might go back into this, albeit at a greatly reduced pledge, just for the Mech. The homage to Aliens is really hitting my nostalgia buttons.
I'm quite looking forward to the Iron Empire and Kurganova Mechs, now.
Trucking right along to unlock little Harry, who better be hauling decent beer.
Another RH response:
Wolfwings asked me a question, and I' thought I'd share my reply with you.
Question: ""How does the drop point affects postage?" and "Is it possible to take multiple pledges at one adress to save the postage?Cause you know, Major and Lt. postage rate is the same and we hate the post...""
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ANSWER:"The drop ship programme does NOT affect postage. The drop points will mean that people can get their rewards in several waves, instead of waiting for everything to be ready at once.
As for combining pledges to a single address, we cannot discount the shipping costs on that for a simple reason. Right now, we barely break even on shipping for pledges up to about 350 Euros or so. Anything more expensive than that means that we are paying the extra postage ourselves. Please keep in mind that high pledges mean heavy packages. Our regular shipping cost for our online shop is 9.90 Euros for Shipping with Tracking, which is over $13. But that's for orders that are usually under $150, and where we already actually subsidize a good chunk of the shipping costs. But in the Kickstarter, the pledges will often be for much higher than 150$ and because all the minis in the KS are discounted, that does not leave us any room to pay for the extra shipping costs ourselves, or subsidize them.
Also, we spoke to many other Kickstarter project creators who ALL told us they lose A LOT of money because of underestimated shipping costs. So we have to be very careful with that.
We worked hard to find the best possible options for everyone, and we were able to drop our shipping costs by half compared to our intial estimates. Also, for anybody outside the US, our shipping costs are quite competitive with other KS (if not downright better). And often, US shipping costs are actually built into the price of the rewards, but we chose to be transparent and not to proceed this way.
The other thing that has to be factored in is the picking and packing costs. If we were actually able to save a few pennies on shipping, this would go towards picking and packing because right now, given the many different miniatures that will be included in each pledge, and given that all those pledges are all going to be different, it's going to be a very labour-intensive job to prepare them, and since we're keeping the production in Europe and the US, then the labour costs are significant...
Furthermore, on packing, we do extensive quality control, and we are known for packing our minis very carefully to avoid breakage... And that also has a cost...
I hope this helps :-)
I have no qualms paying for postage if it's reasonable. For the pledge level I'm currently at, it's about 6.25% of the total cost for shipping. Since I'm not paying a sales tax, I'm fine paying a bit more.
Looking forward to new updates for the $380k+ goals. I think now or tomorrow would be a good time to show another render, possibly of IE or Jailbirds troopers.
PsychoticStorm wrote: My suggestion for the jailbirds walker was rollbars and heavy Armour on the pilot.
Lansirill wrote: A cage around the pilot may make the mech look a lot better. Then again I'm not a huge fan of the power lifter concept, so I'm not terribly concerned about the thing being changed; whatever they do to it I'll still probably be meh. The cage *is* a nice idea though.
HisDivineShadow wrote: I wouldn't mind a cage like the obvious inspiriration that is the Aliens loader. But I don't her armored.
No one cries foul @ Guard Sentinels, with the open cockpit. Its lightly armored. That's the concept.
Please, a cage, roll bars, something. That's worse than the walkers in the third Matrix movie*... and that's saying something.
*Note, I loved those walkers... but the not the unarmored pilots when they were clearly meant for combat. Without roll bars, or Any protection here... just ugh!
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I've never participated in one (either the campaign or any thread about one) and I'm honestly really puzzled by the intensity of the negativity. I expected a lot of speculation about the unrevealed minis, a lot of discussion about what people were going to do with their minis, and a lot of comparisons between peoples' orders. There seems to be quite a few people who are posting comments along the lines of 'the Kickstarter isn't going to do as well as you think, and X is the reason why,' or 'if such-and-such situation doesn't change, I'm going to withdraw my pledge,' or 'they are running the Kickstarter wrong, they should be doing it this way.' I'm not saying that these people aren't entitled to their opinions. (Hell, I even agree with some of them!) I just wasn't expecting the conversation to take this direction. Is it normal? Was I just overly optimistic? Or is this an uncharacteristically negative conversation for its type? 
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